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Old 12-01-2019, 12:55 AM   #1
dschwarzbauer
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Default How important is golf to Disney

I was thinking of possible new DVC resorts and it dawned on me there are three 18 hole golf course and one 9 hole course. One is next to Saratoga springs and Old Key West and the other ones are by the magic kingdom. The locations are fantastic and I believe would
make Disney a lot of money. The question is are having golf courses worth it to Disney. It seems the best locations are gone but these would be great.



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Old 12-01-2019, 01:03 AM   #2
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I only play miniature golf but it would seems those that favor golf might enjoy chasing a ball down the mouse hole.
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Old 12-01-2019, 07:23 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by dschwarzbauer View Post
I was thinking of possible new DVC resorts and it dawned on me there are three 18 hole golf course and one 9 hole course. One is next to Saratoga springs and Old Key West and the other ones are by the magic kingdom. The locations are fantastic and I believe would
make Disney a lot of money. The question is are having golf courses worth it to Disney. It seems the best locations are gone but these would be great. .
Well....It was not too long ago that Disney World had four golf courses. That fourth location was previously an announced DVC location, but was scrapped and Disney built Saratoga Springs instead. Disney would later sell the golf course to a developer and became Golden Oaks & Four Seasons Resort.

The DVC resort at Eagle Pines was announced in 2001. But after 9/11 and the recession that followed, lead to decline of travelers to WDW and the resort was put on hold. Then a few years later, DVC decided to go with a revamp of an existing resort and convert/remake it into SSR.

“The proposed 600-unit ownership development is slated to occupy a 61-acre site along the award-winning Disney’s Eagle Pines golf course at Walt Disney World Resort. All rooms will feature either a pool, golf course or forest view. Initial plans call for the construction of a main Inn building encompassing a check-in area; accommodations; restaurant/lounge; theme pool with feature slide; retail space; arcade; common living room area and a health club, as well as Villa buildings containing vacation home accommodations. Development will begin this fall with an estimated opening in spring/summer 2004.”

Golf as a whole has been in decline since the great recession. Millennials are really big factor in their demise, their generation has no interest in golf. The three remaining courses are still big draws for WDW and still make a lot of money.

Here is a good back story on how WDW got involved in golf. The current golf course management contract runs thru 2031.

https://www.golfwdw.com/learn-more/p...d-golf-classic
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Old 12-01-2019, 09:35 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by tomandrobin View Post

Golf as a whole has been in decline since the great recession. Millennials are really big factor in their demise, their generation has no interest in golf. The three remaining courses are still big draws for WDW and still make a lot of money.

Here is a good back story on how WDW got involved in golf. The current golf course management contract runs thru 2031.

https://www.golfwdw.com/learn-more/p...d-golf-classic

Disney World once had 5.5 Courses and would advertise "99 holes of Golf"

Lake Buena Vista-18
Magnolia-18
Palm-18
Eagle Pines-18 (Four Seasons)
Ospraie Ridge-18 (Four Seasons)
Oak Trail-9
99

In 2013 the PGA Tour event held at the Magnolia & Palm was removed from the Tour schedule

In the late 90's early 2000's we would often go to Orlando on golf trips, outside of WDW there were some very nice courses. Orange County Nationals Panther Lake opened in 1997 & Crooked Cat opened in 99, we also liked Falcon's Fire. (no shortage of bad Orlando Golf courses) -

So Increased competition and taking Tom's comments above, I would also factor in increased Airline baggage fees - Disney (wisely) went in a different direction, the "Sunrise-Sunset 9 Deal" is one of the few WDW bargains (rent clubs cheaper than bag fees)
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Old 12-01-2019, 09:43 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by tomandrobin View Post
Well....It was not too long ago that Disney World had four golf courses. That fourth location was previously an announced DVC location, but was scrapped and Disney built Saratoga Springs instead. Disney would later sell the golf course to a developer and became Golden Oaks & Four Seasons Resort.

The DVC resort at Eagle Pines was announced in 2001. But after 9/11 and the recession that followed, lead to decline of travelers to WDW and the resort was put on hold. Then a few years later, DVC decided to go with a revamp of an existing resort and convert/remake it into SSR.

“The proposed 600-unit ownership development is slated to occupy a 61-acre site along the award-winning Disney’s Eagle Pines golf course at Walt Disney World Resort. All rooms will feature either a pool, golf course or forest view. Initial plans call for the construction of a main Inn building encompassing a check-in area; accommodations; restaurant/lounge; theme pool with feature slide; retail space; arcade; common living room area and a health club, as well as Villa buildings containing vacation home accommodations. Development will begin this fall with an estimated opening in spring/summer 2004.”

Golf as a whole has been in decline since the great recession. Millennials are really big factor in their demise, their generation has no interest in golf. The three remaining courses are still big draws for WDW and still make a lot of money.

Here is a good back story on how WDW got involved in golf. The current golf course management contract runs thru 2031.

https://www.golfwdw.com/learn-more/p...d-golf-classic
Years ago one of the lesser known resorts was Disney's Golf Resort that became Shades of Green. Golf was there since the beginning.
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Old 12-01-2019, 11:07 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by tomandrobin View Post
Golf as a whole has been in decline since the great recession. Millennials are really big factor in their demise, their generation has no interest in golf.
We need another young Tiger Woods to come along and make it popular with them.
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Old 12-01-2019, 12:03 PM   #7
disneymomof2
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We have taken clubs down there and golfed twice. Our son has done the same.

On our most recent trip (last week), we left our clubs down there for another trip we are taking in 4 weeks (staying 8 days)....there will be some use of the clubs during that trip too.

As a side note, when Disney sold the multi day non-expiring water parks fun and more tickets, the 'more' on those tickets allows you to have free visits to either mini-golf course, the 9-hole walking golf course of Oak Trail (where we golfed last week) or a water park. My whole family has non-expiring tickets that we are still working on. So we all still have free rounds at the 9-hole course.
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Old 12-01-2019, 01:34 PM   #8
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We need another young Tiger Woods to come along and make it popular with them.
The oldest millennials were 15-16 years old when Tiger won the ‘97 Masters. Golf IS very popular with millennials. But sparing the time seems to not be as realistic as it once was. For example, my company used to have a terrific annual tournament for our clients at a course that has hosted several PGA tournaments (one of which was won by Tiger back in the day!), followed by cocktails and an amazing dinner.

We cancelled it a few years ago because we were finding more and more clients that simply couldn’t spare the time. Sporting events and shows have really grown (outside working hours, only 3-4 hours including dinner).

This is obviously just one case, but I suspect that it’s probably more of a larger trend. Today’s workforce is being asked to do a lot, and external events - like golf - during normal working hours are a bystander.

As for golf during leisure time, I suspect it’s still pretty popular. But given that millennials are now having kids of their own, coupled with a higher proportion of dual-income families, weekends are family time/getting ready for the next week time, not golf time.
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Old 12-01-2019, 01:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Commish View Post
Disney World once had 5.5 Courses and would advertise "99 holes of Golf"

Lake Buena Vista-18
Magnolia-18
Palm-18
Eagle Pines-18 (Four Seasons)
Ospraie Ridge-18 (Four Seasons)
Oak Trail-9
99
That fifth course was Osprey Ridge-DH still has a golf shirt from there. Back when we first joined DVC (Jan of 2002), there was talk of a golf resort-there was even a concept drawing, and since DH loves golf, it was one reason we joined. Sadly, since then, we've seen a decline in golf. What really upset DH was when they went to not letting singles book ahead, yet visitors are encouraged to book everything else, like FP+, ADRs.
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Old 12-01-2019, 02:25 PM   #10
dschwarzbauer
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I guess it all depends on how much money Disney makes. With the contract going to 2031 it seems unlikely anything will happen until then but who knows. I have golfed all 6 of the courses and my favorite are the ones that were sold.
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