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Old 04-03-2020, 04:22 PM   #251
Nickys
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Originally Posted by blueviper View Post
A contract is a contract is a contract. While emotions and sympathy can be granted, they are not required. In my opinion, depending on HOW the contracts are written, it is most likely 100% the broker who needs to repay the renter, and pay the owner for the points. (I.e., the broker loses 100% of the cost)

Why? Because of how the contracts are written. Non-refundable means just that. If there's not an exception for pandemics, etc., then there's no wiggle room. A court should side with that instead of sympathy. Otherwise, legal contracts become worthless, and NO ONE wants that type of precedent

CASE IN POINT: imagine if a bank decided that you owed them 100% of your mortgage next week because of this pandemic...otherwise they will sell your house in order to gain liquidity. Your mortgage contract protects you. Just like these DVC ones protects those that agree to them.

In many of the contracts, you are agreeing to rent points NOT a guaranteed week (like you do when you book a hotel room). That comes with the risk of renting points...you get rooms at a discount (like an owner), but you incur inflexibility and risk. Well, that risk arrived.

On the other hand, some contracts state you are renting specific dates, in which case, those renters might have legal claim to a refund from the owner. But again, if via a broker (I haven't used one), it really depends on what type of verbiage is in the contracts.

That might sound harsh depending on what side of the "bag" you're on (thread's theme), but legal contracts are binding for a reason....stability and order during chaos and unpredictability.
You said yourself, a contract is a contract is a contract.

The broker has a contract with the owner and a different contract with the renter. Both say it is non-refundable. In which case, by your definition surely the broker is not liable to give a refund?

Having said that, I agree with Tom. I told Davids I would refund if the renter wanted to cancel, or rebook if the renter wanted to do so. And as Iíve said before, the figures I got showed that the renter got 100% back.

But their policy has been inconsistent. Having first asked owners to put aside the contract and act from your conscience, whilst pointing out to renters that the terms stated it was non-refundable, they then turned the screws on the owners to refund and started giving vouchers to the renters whilst withholding their cut. But not in all cases it seems, some renters are still reporting getting refunds.
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:35 PM   #252
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If the contract states that you are RENTING POINTS (versus nights), then the owner is fulfilling the contract by providing you the points. The fact that you can't use the points when you wanted to (choice) due to Disney doesn't automatically make the owner's fulfillment void.
That is one of the most weasely thing I've seen in some time. I would be embarrassed to actually believe something like that.

Cheers.
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:47 PM   #253
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That is one of the most weasely thing I've seen in some time. I would be embarrassed to actually believe something like that.

Cheers.
Agreed. Canít believe some one would even think that. No one is the winner here this is awful for everyone. Nasty comments like that doesnít help anyone.
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:18 PM   #254
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I read elsewhere that a renter sued an owner in FL because the renter was unable to use the room due to a hurricane and the owner did not want to provide a refund as he was not to blame.

The court ruled in favor of the owner as he was not to blame for the hurricane and the renter should have gotten travelers insurance to cover.

Even though this is not DVC IMO a traveler should always get CFAR insurance, you donít know when life happens and when it does itís always an inconvenience.

With that said, an owner should always try and work with the renter in these cases.
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:27 PM   #255
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I read elsewhere that a renter sued an owner in FL because the renter was unable to use the room due to a hurricane and the owner did not want to provide a refund as he was not to blame.

The court ruled in favor of the owner as he was not to blame for the hurricane and the renter should have gotten travelers insurance to cover.

Even though this is not DVC IMO a traveler should always get CFAR insurance, you donít know when life happens and when it does itís always an inconvenience.

With that said, an owner should always try and work with the renter in these cases.
AND....this is why we have a legal system and lawsuits.
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:48 PM   #256
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I read elsewhere that a renter sued an owner in FL because the renter was unable to use the room due to a hurricane and the owner did not want to provide a refund as he was not to blame.
I thought that the resorts were open and rooms available during this, or so I remember. Is tat correct, or do I mis-remember?

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Old 04-03-2020, 07:24 PM   #257
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I thought that the resorts were open and rooms available during this, or so I remember. Is tat correct, or do I mis-remember?

Cheers.
Apparently not. Iirc during Irma Vero was closed too. I think it depends on the location and what kind of impact is expected. I stayed at VGF during Irma and they werenít closed.
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Old 04-03-2020, 07:25 PM   #258
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Apparently not. Iirc during Irma Vero was closed too. I think it depends on the location and what kind of impact is expected. I stayed at VGF during Irma and they werenít closed.
So, if the location rented was open, the room was provided. Parks notwithstanding.

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Old 04-03-2020, 08:56 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberc View Post
I read elsewhere that a renter sued an owner in FL because the renter was unable to use the room due to a hurricane and the owner did not want to provide a refund as he was not to blame.

The court ruled in favor of the owner as he was not to blame for the hurricane and the renter should have gotten travelers insurance to cover.

Even though this is not DVC IMO a traveler should always get CFAR insurance, you donít know when life happens and when it does itís always an inconvenience.

With that said, an owner should always try and work with the renter in these cases.
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Originally Posted by Cyberc View Post
Apparently not. Iirc during Irma Vero was closed too. I think it depends on the location and what kind of impact is expected. I stayed at VGF during Irma and they werenít closed.
Can you provide an article or names involved? I'm not a lawyer, but I love this type of stuff and I'm always interested reading why courts make the decisions they make.
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Old 04-03-2020, 09:06 PM   #260
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Redweek is siding with the renters EVEN when the resorts are open and accepting existing reservations. Sorry if I didnt make it clear. Redweek is withholding payment from owners that have renters cancel because they do not WANT to check in to room. The resort is not closed.

I fully agree that the owner and renter should come to an agreement versus either of the parties taking a 100% loss.

Was your friends reservation cancelled because the resort is closed?
My thought on this is that although the resort is open, the renter can't travel due to quarantines in place, and airlines restricting travel due to Covid-19.

To Use Hawaii as an Example: It's all well and good the resort might be open (like the Marriot KoOlina), but if the renter can't get on a plane and get there from their origination point that really doesn't do the renter very much good that the resort is open.

AND to boot even if the renter gets to Hawaii the Governor of Hawaii has a mandatory 14-day quarantine for any residents or visitors who return/come to Hawaii. That doesn't do the renter very much good if they only have a 7 day stay at the rental The renter should not have to pay to fly to a different state to be quarantined when they can just stay home to and be quarantined
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