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Old 09-29-2019, 06:28 PM   #21
ermindy1133
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Originally Posted by capeokw56 View Post
You're the best! Gonna be close to make The Boathouse at 7:00 though.
Use the touringplans reservation finder to stalk a 7:30 reservation, just for the extra time cushion. That might also be one of the restaurants that can be booked through Open Table. Take some of the stress off.

ETA: Or... use a car service instead of Magical Express to get to your resort. Call George over at Orlando Airport Towncar. They meet you at the baggage claim area and take you straight to your resort. We’ve had nothing but great service from them.
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Old 09-29-2019, 07:41 PM   #22
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Use the touringplans reservation finder to stalk a 7:30 reservation, just for the extra time cushion. That might also be one of the restaurants that can be booked through Open Table. Take some of the stress off.

ETA: Or... use a car service instead of Magical Express to get to your resort. Call George over at Orlando Airport Towncar. They meet you at the baggage claim area and take you straight to your resort. We’ve had nothing but great service from them.
As always... thanks for the help. I went to MDE and got a 7:30 Boathouse reservation!
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:46 AM   #23
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I sure hope that you're right! Our flight to MCO on Jan 7th is a Max8 and I'm not real happy about it.
Our's on Jan 23rd is the same with this disclaimer still on it: "Boeing 737-MAX8 Aircraft are currently grounded by the FAA. Until the MAX8 aircraft returns to service, Southwest plans to operate MAX8 flights with a different aircraft type. Flight schedules and aircraft type remain subject to change per the Contract of Carriage"
Hoping they get it figured out by then, always a little nervous to fly and this doesn't help.
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Old 09-30-2019, 02:32 PM   #24
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I am kind of leaning on the side that Boeing pretty much has to get the Max problems ironed out before they are available for commercial duty again . I cant even imagine how much updating and testing these max systems are undergoing to be safe right now . I am sure they are putting the systems through every conceivable scenario and stress test to make these safe to fly , and gain consumer confidence again .
So far , I am holding fast with our Late January reservation (and its a 5 hour cross country flight on a Max as well !) . Will just have to keep an eye on things to see how the first couple weeks goes once Max's are back up in the air !
But this is what they were supposed to have done in the first place. It's hard to fully know where else corners were cut
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Old 09-30-2019, 04:17 PM   #25
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But this is what they were supposed to have done in the first place. It's hard to fully know where else corners were cut
They were supposed to be safe in the first place but it's obvious that they took a chance with our lives. Nope, I'm not flying on one, I don't trust them.
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Old 09-30-2019, 04:31 PM   #26
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But this is what they were supposed to have done in the first place. It's hard to fully know where else corners were cut
I don't really think any corners were cut in production. Far from it . I think the safety systems were a little to invasive actually . They took the Pilots out of the equation . The Max8's crashed themselves .

It was not a mechanical failure. It was a new flight control system implemented into the Max8 . The new Max8's have such powerful engines , and they are set higher and more forward than the older 737's that the tendency of the aircraft is to pitch up (nose high) and stall , was realized by Boeing, and they had a computer system incorporated to control it. . MCAS ( Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System). The problem was Boeing failed to inform Pilots of this new system and how it worked , and even WAY worse , pilots were unable to remove the computer override when the system sensed the aircrafts "angle of attack" was nose high (in the 2 crashes) .
Obviously something went wrong, and the computer "thought" the nose was too high with a false high angle of attack . The MCAS computer tried to recover from a false angle of attack and kept pushing the nose down . The pilots were helpless to recover from this as the computer was "in control" . If the Pilots were able to remove the computer guidance (MCAS) from the equation , the planes would never have crashed . The older 737's had this feature and the "Pilot" could fly the aircraft.

Hopefully Boeing can tweak this system and figure out exactly why the MCAS thought the nose was too high (even though it wasn't ) , and tried to correct it , causing the crashes . Even more important , they need to let the Pilots have control if they need to in just such a situation .

If Boeing does not remove the computer override function in an emergency situation , I don't think any of us will have to worry about flying on a Max8 , as there are no pilots who are going to either !

I feel confident Boeing will do what it needs to do to correct the problem . If the Max8's are cleared for passenger duty in January , I am not sure if I will be climbing on board . If they are in the air for a while probably ....... (Just hoping they get all those computer systems to "play nice")


In the end, you guys are correct , and to say I wouldn't be nervous would be a lie, lol .
I Guess a computer problem is just as bad as a mechanical failure on modern aircraft (possibly worse!) .

Ok, back to the SW site to see what other options I can come up with , lol !
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Last edited by Syndrome; 09-30-2019 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 09-30-2019, 04:49 PM   #27
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Beside them limiting the number of AoA sensors to 2 instead of 3 and relying on only one, there were other security safeguards removed or made optional equipment that required paying extra. Reportedly they are retrofitting planes for these sensors now for free and the new ones will have them as standard equipment.

This is not wholly unlike when a plane went completely missing and they couldn't find it because the pilot turned off the beacons in the cockpit and the GPS module wasn't on since the company didn't pay extra for it. MH 370 was a 777.
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Old 09-30-2019, 05:04 PM   #28
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Beside them limiting the number of AoA sensors to 2 instead of 3 and relying on only one, there were other security safeguards removed or made optional equipment that required paying extra. Reportedly they are retrofitting planes for these sensors now for free and the new ones will have them as standard equipment.

This is not wholly unlike when a plane went completely missing and they couldn't find it because the pilot turned off the beacons in the cockpit and the GPS module wasn't on since the company didn't pay extra for it. MH 370 was a 777.
Exactly, these new Max8's are unlike the old 737's . The AoA is way different . Even though Boeing released them claiming they were just like the old 737's, they really were not and Pilots were clueless to the changes and had barely any training on the new models because Boeing claimed they were "the same" as the old ones. They are a new beast . They tried to play catch up with Airbus's upgraded engines, and rushed the Max8's into the air , and people died .

I think (hope) , things will be different the next time around when the Max8's are back in service . Boeing can not afford for them to fail again , and I am sure there is an astronomical amount of $$$ being poured into the 8's to get em right !

I wonder how Southwest has ordered the Max8's from Boeing ? Are they optioned out with the correct safety systems/options, or did they cheap out and get the trimmed down (no pun intended) max8's ? Crazy to think Boeing sells these with some safety systems "optional" ! Hope Southwest ordered the "loaded" max8's !
The Max8's that crashed were both overseas airlines . I think both airlines ordered the "bare bones" max8's, with the single AoA sensor readings and no AoA disagree alert ?
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Last edited by Syndrome; 09-30-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 09-30-2019, 05:27 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Syndrome View Post
I don't really think any corners were cut in production. Far from it . I think the safety systems were a little to invasive actually . They took the Pilots out of the equation . The Max8's crashed themselves .

It was not a mechanical failure. It was a new flight control system implemented into the Max8 . The new Max8's have such powerful engines , and they are set higher and more forward than the older 737's that the tendency of the aircraft is to pitch up (nose high) and stall , was realized by Boeing, and they had a computer system incorporated to control it. . MCAS ( Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System). The problem was Boeing failed to inform Pilots of this new system and how it worked , and even WAY worse , pilots were unable to remove the computer override when the system sensed the aircrafts "angle of attack" was nose high (in the 2 crashes) .
Obviously something went wrong, and the computer "thought" the nose was too high with a false high angle of attack . The MCAS computer tried to recover from a false angle of attack and kept pushing the nose down . The pilots were helpless to recover from this as the computer was "in control" . If the Pilots were able to remove the computer guidance (MCAS) from the equation , the planes would never have crashed . The older 737's had this feature and the "Pilot" could fly the aircraft.

Hopefully Boeing can tweak this system and figure out exactly why the MCAS thought the nose was too high (even though it wasn't ) , and tried to correct it , causing the crashes . Even more important , they need to let the Pilots have control if they need to in just such a situation .

If Boeing does not remove the computer override function in an emergency situation , I don't think any of us will have to worry about flying on a Max8 , as there are no pilots who are going to either !

I feel confident Boeing will do what it needs to do to correct the problem . If the Max8's are cleared for passenger duty in January , I am not sure if I will be climbing on board . If they are in the air for a while probably ....... (Just hoping they get all those computer systems to "play nice")


In the end, you guys are correct , and to say I wouldn't be nervous would be a lie, lol .
I Guess a computer problem is just as bad as a mechanical failure on modern aircraft (possibly worse!) .

Ok, back to the SW site to see what other options I can come up with , lol !
Thanks for the info and I appreciate the insight. How could anyone with any common sense at all build an airplane where the pilot can't recover control from a computer??

After they've been flying trouble free, for like a year or so, then I might fly on one. Until then I'll continue to change my flights as I just did for January.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:48 PM   #30
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Search the days of your flights as if you were looking to buy airfare. When the list of flights comes up look at your flight time and the flight number will be listed next to it and will be in blue. Click on the flight number and all the information will come up including the type of plane.
Ok, looking at our flights...

I see 737-700 and 737-800 (is that the Max8)? Or would it say Max8 straight up?

TIA
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