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Old 10-19-2019, 07:54 PM   #291
Olaf2018
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This was a complete failure on so many levels of Disney that it is quite shocking!!!! The reason people were calling 911 was because Disney wasn't giving any information about how long the ride would take to resume normal service. Don't blame the people calling 911, when they have been stuck on a ride for over 30 minutes with no communication from the CM's. Why shouldn't they call 911 when Disney fails to give a reasonable time for a supposiblity safe form of travel to fix a situation that might occur at anytime. They have no excuse for what happened and haven't given one either after the event happened, at least reasonable one. Disney shouldn't be beta testing on paying guests!
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:47 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by helenabear View Post
Normally I find your posts to be level headed, but I'm getting a defensive vibe here. And a lack of sympathy truthfully. Blaming people for calling 911 is not okay IMO. The three calls I read about weren't over reactions.

I think a little understanding would go a long way to those who are not able bodied as you are. Consider yourself lucky is all I'll say now.
My posts were defensive and reactionary to things I’ve read that weren’t necessarily posted here. I shouldn’t have done that, and I do apologize. Likewise, I truly don’t mean to minimize the challenges people with anxiety disorders go through. I find the older I get, the more OCD I am and I have no doubt I would not have been a happy camper, at all, and quite relieved when things started moving. And that is, I’m sure, only the tip of the iceberg for someone who deals with anxiety or has a panic attack. And I know panic attacks have really physiological affects that threaten a person’s health.

I’m also frustrated with the level of suspicion and negativity I’ve read here and on other boards about the gondolas in general. I honestly find them, in terms of confinement risk and “trapped” risk, to be no different than monorails or an elevator.

Again, I am absolutely not excusing Disney for the accident or there response.

You sound like someone who is very aware of their limitations, their needs, and how to cope and make adjustments, so I don’t mean to belittle you at all.

I do believe that the gondolas might not be a good form of transportation for people who have concerns about them, just like I believe the same thing for people with fear of flying and planes, motion sickness and friendship boats, or anxieties around the monorail.

There is no way that Disney is going to be experienced with gondolas until they are experienced with gondolas, and I fully anticipate some rough patches along the way. (I certainly wouldn’t have anticipated this, though.) I don’t believe any of those rough patches are going to put people’s lives in jeopardy, but I also know that doesn’t minimize the discomfort or anxiety somebody might feel if they are the ones in the gondolas during such an incident.

Waiting until they’ve proven themselves somewhat might well be the best thing to do for someone with concerns.

At the same time, Disney must do better to both clarify what the experience will be like (thus the signage now that gondolas will occasionally stop for loading needs) and improve their communication. The communication aspect should have been thought of beforehand.

If they can’t do that, then they shouldn’t be running the gondolas or any more of transportation. I have confidence they will get there as they discover what is needed.

Dirk
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:31 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
My posts were defensive and reactionary to things...

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What? Yankee? defensive? No way.
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:27 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
My posts were defensive and reactionary to things I’ve read that weren’t necessarily posted here. I shouldn’t have done that, and I do apologize. Likewise, I truly don’t mean to minimize the challenges people with anxiety disorders go through. I find the older I get, the more OCD I am and I have no doubt I would not have been a happy camper, at all, and quite relieved when things started moving. And that is, I’m sure, only the tip of the iceberg for someone who deals with anxiety or has a panic attack. And I know panic attacks have really physiological affects that threaten a person’s health.

I’m also frustrated with the level of suspicion and negativity I’ve read here and on other boards about the gondolas in general. I honestly find them, in terms of confinement risk and “trapped” risk, to be no different than monorails or an elevator.

Again, I am absolutely not excusing Disney for the accident or there response.

You sound like someone who is very aware of their limitations, their needs, and how to cope and make adjustments, so I don’t mean to belittle you at all.

I do believe that the gondolas might not be a good form of transportation for people who have concerns about them, just like I believe the same thing for people with fear of flying and planes, motion sickness and friendship boats, or anxieties around the monorail.

There is no way that Disney is going to be experienced with gondolas until they are experienced with gondolas, and I fully anticipate some rough patches along the way. (I certainly wouldn’t have anticipated this, though.) I don’t believe any of those rough patches are going to put people’s lives in jeopardy, but I also know that doesn’t minimize the discomfort or anxiety somebody might feel if they are the ones in the gondolas during such an incident.

Waiting until they’ve proven themselves somewhat might well be the best thing to do for someone with concerns.

At the same time, Disney must do better to both clarify what the experience will be like (thus the signage now that gondolas will occasionally stop for loading needs) and improve their communication. The communication aspect should have been thought of beforehand.

If they can’t do that, then they shouldn’t be running the gondolas or any more of transportation. I have confidence they will get there as they discover what is needed.

Dirk
Thank you for this, and now I see your point. As anxious as I can get, I'm still rational about things. So there was a hiccup with these... I don't doubt their safety at all really. I do doubt my ability to ride okay which is why I might try the smallest leg first. I know I'm fine on huge gondolas and monorails. These are smaller and more confining feeling which might be an issue. Especially if we have others in our gondola (all adds to me). I have an issue with heights but when I feel secure I am fine. The small space may or may not do me in lol. I do ride things that push it for my son's sake (we have more of ski lift versions at our fair that my son just loved ugh) and I know if I don't push I will only get worse. I'd rather try to enjoy life than turn agoraphobic.

I will imagine that these will be smoother in operation than the monorails as a whole. Maybe by March it will be enough of a well oiled machine to try.

I was really shocked this happened. While I have had personal concerns, I still think as a whole this form of transportation is great and reliable. I actually didn't expect real hiccups at all.

I do really appreciate this post though. I'm sorry if I was getting defensive as well. I do deal with some physiological issues due to anxiety as many do. I have muscle twitches and spasms which compound back issues which can get bad quick. In addition to shortness of breath which leads to dizziness and a headache and tensing of my back which makes my back worse which makes my anxiety pick up... baaaaad circle for me. My back can trigger anxiety and anxiety can trigger back issues. Both are fixable and why things like the DAS do work (walking helps both my anxiety and back from seizing up) but why the idea of being trapped for hours in a gondola with strangers would be bad. But who knows for me, I could get on and feel just as safe as I do in a plane or monorail. I hope so as they really should be great!
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Old 10-20-2019, 03:22 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helenabear View Post
Thank you for this, and now I see your point. As anxious as I can get, I'm still rational about things. So there was a hiccup with these... I don't doubt their safety at all really. I do doubt my ability to ride okay which is why I might try the smallest leg first. I know I'm fine on huge gondolas and monorails. These are smaller and more confining feeling which might be an issue. Especially if we have others in our gondola (all adds to me).
Interestingly, for me, I don't know if I'll be more patient or more frustrated with others in the gondola. There was one story of gondoliers singing Disney songs together. That's the one I would want to be in!

Quote:
I have an issue with heights but when I feel secure I am fine.
Jim is the same way, but he says it also depends on survivability. He hates glass elevators on skyscrapers (though he's learned to be comfortable with the Disney Cruise Line elevators!), but he has no trouble standing on the glass ledge at the Sears Tower. He says if it breaks, there's no way he'll survive, so he's fine with it. Otherwise, he's afraid of being alive for the splat.

For me, as long as I'm supported and can't fall off, I'm OK.

Quote:
The small space may or may not do me in lol. I do ride things that push it for my son's sake (we have more of ski lift versions at our fair that my son just loved ugh) and I know if I don't push I will only get worse. I'd rather try to enjoy life than turn agoraphobic.
I have to admit that I don't think I appreciated just how difficult the gondolas could be for people with claustrophobia, fear of heights, or anxiety. My focus has always been on safety (which I don't doubt), reliability (which will be proven, I believe, with experience) but I'e overlooked other factors. Even a monorail is less claustrophobic because the train cabin is larger.

Initially, I just assumed Disney would be able to eliminate buses where the gondola serves (which has been rumored to be after a year or so), but now I think they'll have to keep them going. Maybe at announced intervals like hour and half hour.

Quote:
I will imagine that these will be smoother in operation than the monorails as a whole. Maybe by March it will be enough of a well oiled machine to try.

I was really shocked this happened. While I have had personal concerns, I still think as a whole this form of transportation is great and reliable. I actually didn't expect real hiccups at all.
I was totally shocked, too, and as much as I advocate for these things, I am first to say it was a total cluster that night. I only hope Disney completely and totally learned their lessons.

I also hope there was nothing inherent in the design that created the problem. I have to trust Doppelmeyr to have gotten that right given their experience all over the world. I can't imagine them doing something they don't believe is a good idea just because Disney wants it for cost factors or other reasons. Their reputation is on this, too, and success at Disney would be a big bonus for them in campaigns to win more American urban customers.


Quote:
I do really appreciate this post though. I'm sorry if I was getting defensive as well.
Thank you. I deserved your call out.

Quote:
I do deal with some physiological issues due to anxiety as many do. I have muscle twitches and spasms which compound back issues which can get bad quick. In addition to shortness of breath which leads to dizziness and a headache and tensing of my back which makes my back worse which makes my anxiety pick up... baaaaad circle for me. My back can trigger anxiety and anxiety can trigger back issues. Both are fixable and why things like the DAS do work (walking helps both my anxiety and back from seizing up) but why the idea of being trapped for hours in a gondola with strangers would be bad. But who knows for me, I could get on and feel just as safe as I do in a plane or monorail. I hope so as they really should be great!
As I said, this conversation has helped me to see how important concerns are that I didn't consider. Here's hoping this works out for everybody as things go on, and thank you for helping others with tips and recommendations on how to negotiate Disney with various needs.

Dirk
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Old 10-20-2019, 03:30 PM   #296
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Incidentally, here's a page from Doppelmayr, showing off their work in La Paz, Bolivia. It's built as a subway system in the sky and is quite complex and urban. This is why I have total confidence in the ability of the Gondolas to function well at Disney. As you can see from some of the photos and video, there are no ways to rescue folks in many location, so the reliability of the line has to be absolutely certain. They don't even have people loading at the stations. People just walk up and board themselves.

The lines are similar in capacity to Disney's lines. This project at Disney has opened up a whole world of gondolas I didn't know about.

https://lapaz.doppelmayr.com

Dirk
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Old 10-20-2019, 06:32 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
Incidentally, here's a page from Doppelmayr, showing off their work in La Paz, Bolivia. It's built as a subway system in the sky and is quite complex and urban. This is why I have total confidence in the ability of the Gondolas to function well at Disney. As you can see from some of the photos and video, there are no ways to rescue folks in many location, so the reliability of the line has to be absolutely certain. They don't even have people loading at the stations. People just walk up and board themselves.

The lines are similar in capacity to Disney's lines. This project at Disney has opened up a whole world of gondolas I didn't know about.

https://lapaz.doppelmayr.com

Dirk
Dirk - thanks for sharing that. You are right - there is no evacuation from some of those areas! My DH commented on riding one in the Alps - you are really up there. I think I will be OK over Crescent Lake - the Alps or La Paz I might have to think about!!
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:07 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
Initially, I just assumed Disney would be able to eliminate buses where the gondola serves (which has been rumored to be after a year or so), but now I think they'll have to keep them going. Maybe at announced intervals like hour and half hour.

Thank you. I deserved your call out.

Dirk
First of all - Dirk - I deeply respect your willingness to look back and see another point of view. Such a rare commodity on the internet!


As to the point quoted above, I have had similar thoughts. I know there has been a notion of gondolas replacing other forms of transport altogether, but I wonder how feasible that will be. While I know it exists at monorail and boat resorts, the gondolas have a different dynamic to them in many ways, and this could be a difficult bridge to cross. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see accessibility based lawsuits emerge from those who feel that limiting a resort's transport to the gondolas doesn't sufficiently account for their needs.


Finally, I do want to caution us all about too much criticism regarding those who made the 911 calls. It's easy, in retrospect, to call them out for delaying the solution (if, indeed, that's what happened). In the moment, however, none of them knew that call would have such an impact. They were stranded, had legitimate worries about an individual, and had no real information from Disney. Were they overreacting? Possibly. But, they were faced with a moment in which they didn't have any of the info we have now. The issue of those calls delaying things is on the 911 centers, the first responders, and Disney for not having a proper triage system in place - it is not on the caller for reaching out for help in a moment of despair.
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Old 10-21-2019, 01:04 PM   #299
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Finally, I do want to caution us all about too much criticism regarding those who made the 911 calls. It's easy, in retrospect, to call them out for delaying the solution (if, indeed, that's what happened). In the moment, however, none of them knew that call would have such an impact. They were stranded, had legitimate worries about an individual, and had no real information from Disney. Were they overreacting? Possibly. But, they were faced with a moment in which they didn't have any of the info we have now. The issue of those calls delaying things is on the 911 centers, the first responders, and Disney for not having a proper triage system in place - it is not on the caller for reaching out for help in a moment of despair.
I think that's a great point. If one cannot stand 20 minutes in a stationary gondola, then that is a major issue for that person. And maybe they shouldn't be on a gondola or monorail or anything that can't be immediately exited in the event of an issue. However, they did freak out and Disney should have been able to reassure them that they would be evacuated more quickly on the line than through a cherry-picker or whatever they wound up using.
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Old 10-21-2019, 03:43 PM   #300
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Do you have an article with that info? Al the ones I read said it took 3 hours to work down the line to get them off. I was under the impression it was not restarted due to the pile up.
Back to this point - does anyone have formal information on this. The delay being blamed on the 911 call is something I have seen bantered about, but I haven't seen anything definitive. The more I think about it, the more absurd that seems to me. Does anyone know where the delay really came from?
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