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Old 12-03-2019, 02:41 PM   #91
carolina_yankee
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I can't blame Eisner for what happened post 9-11. It was a difficult time.
Very true. My point was that Eisner would do what he needed to save the bottom line. Unfortunately for me, 2003 was when we started doing Disney regularly so high discounts and low crowds were my norm, and I saw the later hours down the road as expansions rather then returning to what was.

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When I look at Eisner's era for the parks, especially US parks, it was a net positive in a big way. IMO, Iger has been a net negative. You can't even compare
.

I really agree here. Iger essentially said the parks were mature and they wouldn't be spending much. Then Harry Potter. They weren't prepared for what they would need to be doing.

Still, I wouldn't expect Iger to expand parks (number of them) in US like Eisner did, but they needed continual development that didn't happen. Now it's a construction zone mess, and I"m not convinced Iger can see wha the parks can truly be, partly because of his television background. He came up in NY, while Eisner came up in Hollywood, where thinking bigger is probably easier.

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But my enduring image of Igor's rein (I like that Igor spelling), will be IT people training their foreign replacements and being forced to sign NDAs to get a bit of severance. Wrong on so many different levels.
Most definitely. Corporate Disney is cold and cruel. Eisner didn't necessarily know how to run corporate (Frank Well's job) so he may have lucked out in not knowing how to be ruthless in that regard. This is Iger's ball of wax - which he really plays down in his book.

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Old 12-03-2019, 03:24 PM   #92
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When I look at Eisner's era for the parks, especially US parks, it was a net positive in a big way. IMO, Iger has been a net negative. You can't even compare.
Was it though? DCA was an absolute bust. DMGMS wasn't much better. Only DAK lived up to the standards of a Disney park, and I feel that was more because of Joe Rohde than anything Eisner did. EuroDisney and HKDL were jokes as well. All of the improvement and expansion of the parks came under Iger, not Eisner. Sure, Eisner increased the square footage. But he did it on the cheap with no regard for guests or Disney standards. Iger turned that square footage into Disney Parks.

Let's also not forget who was responsible for this:



That's surely not a positive!

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Old 12-03-2019, 04:43 PM   #93
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Was it though? DCA was an absolute bust. DMGMS wasn't much better. Only DAK lived up to the standards of a Disney park, and I feel that was more because of Joe Rohde than anything Eisner did. EuroDisney and HKDL were jokes as well. All of the improvement and expansion of the parks came under Iger, not Eisner. Sure, Eisner increased the square footage. But he did it on the cheap with no regard for guests or Disney standards. Iger turned that square footage into Disney Parks.

Let's also not forget who was responsible for this:



That's surely not a positive!
I specifically said US Parks. And MGM was certainly not a bust. Eisner had ideas and actually had creative input. Anyone who was given rein to create under a CEO, that CEO gets the credit. Where is Iger's Joe Rohde? Eisner created parks. Iger can barely take credit for a ride or two in a couple of unwanted new lands. And Iger dismantled some of Disney's most beloved attractions.

As for that atrocious castle, well do you want me start naming gaffs during the Iger regime. We'd be here a while. At least that castle was temporary.

Strictly for parks, which is what I care about. I'll take Eisner. JMO of course
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:50 PM   #94
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Only DAK lived up to the standards of a Disney park, and I feel that was more because of Joe Rohde
Was it though? I remember for the first decade, Disney constantly saying "It's not a zoo" to remind everyone, it's not a glorified zoo. There was alot of land used, and not alot of attractions. Entertainment wise, seemed like a bust. Only now with Pandora added, is it a full day for alot of people.


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All of the improvement and expansion of the parks came under Iger, not Eisner.
The Imagineering Story talks about plenty of new rides and attractions that came under Eisner. Two new parks under Eisner!
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:54 PM   #95
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I specifically said US Parks. And MGM was certainly not a bust. Eisner had ideas and actually had creative input. Anyone who was given rein to create under a CEO, that CEO gets the credit. Where is Iger's Joe Rohde? Eisner created parks. Iger can barely take credit for a ride or two in a couple of unwanted new lands. And Iger dismantled some of Disney's most beloved attractions.
It wasn't? MGM Studios opened with exactly two attractions - the Backlot tour and the Indy show. Within two years that number had surged to a whopping 5. It took a decade, 10 years, to reach double digit attractions. No one went because the refrain was that there was nothing there. For all the complaints that DHS is only a half day park now, I think there's some serious fluffery of what it used to be. I'm sure this forum would not be as kind if DHS and DCA were still in the states that Eisner left them. If you want to give him the credit for fostering creativity (rightly so) then he also has to be responsible for the near destruction of the Disney brand in the consumer's eyes.
I get you don't like Iger, but you're being highly overcritical of him and overly kind to Eisner. Both guys are responsible for some good and bad decisions.

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As for that atrocious castle, well do you want me start naming gaffs during the Iger regime. We'd be here a while. At least that castle was temporary.
The castle was a joke, hence the rolling smiley after it. See the above comment. Both guys have made some gaffes. Ironically, the castle was unintentionally permanent. Most of the overlay was a facade, but on the upper towers and walls it was really painted. Apparently, the color and type of paint they used has remarkable staying power and has not been able to be covered over correctly since. It requires near constant repainting, and even then leaves a pinkinsh tint to the gray over it, especially in certain light. So part of the ugly crane and scissor lift that are now always seemingly in view of the castle are a direct result of that cake castle. Just an interesting factoid direct from the Imagineer in charge of that repainting.

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Strictly for parks, which is what I care about. I'll take Eisner. JMO of course
Fair enough. But I think your opinion would be different with every park except DAK in the state that Eisner left them. I personally would take Eisner's willingness to expand combined with Iger's insistence on keeping to Disney standards. All with a heavy dose of Joe Rohde's creativity and initiative, of course. (He brought a real Bengal tiger to the meeting with Eisner to sell DAK!!)
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:06 PM   #96
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Was it though? I remember for the first decade, Disney constantly saying "It's not a zoo" to remind everyone, it's not a glorified zoo. There was alot of land used, and not alot of attractions. Entertainment wise, seemed like a bust. Only now with Pandora added, is it a full day for alot of people.
You don't have to argue with me. At least it was a full sized park with a full budget that lived up to Disney creativity and standards.

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The Imagineering Story talks about plenty of new rides and attractions that came under Eisner. Two new parks under Eisner!
And that same TIS episode made it abundantly clear that all 4 parks he built, aside from DAK (see above), were monumental failures, especially at opening. The episode was even titled "Hit and miss". Only the parks in Tokyo were truly masterpieces, and the episode made sure to remind you repeatedly that Eisner had pretty much nothing to do with them. There definitely were some gems, most notably the Indy Adventure in DL, Soarin', ToT, and Test Track. But it you were to go back and look at the list of attractions at all 6 parks in 2005, particularly those built between 1984-2005, you'd be pretty disappointed, especially with those at DMGMS, DCA, and DAK.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:24 PM   #97
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I remember Joe Rohde saying that he understood budget constraints when planning DAk. Money was spent on intricate carving on benches, but both Tarzan Live! and Festival of the Lion King opened in theaters without air conditioning. Within a few years, both venues were enclosed and air conditioning was added, just as Rohde expected.

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Old 12-03-2019, 10:55 PM   #98
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I remember Joe Rhode saying that he understood budget constraints when planning DAk. Money was spent on intricate carving on benches, but both Tarzan Live! and Festival of the Lion King opened in theaters without air conditioning. Within a few years, both venues were enclosed and air conditioning was added, just as Rhode expected.
Thanks for this perspective.
Usually I let spelling go, but in this case out of respect I have to say his name is Joe Rohde. I believe it is pronounced "Roadie".
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:04 PM   #99
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When I look at Eisner's era for the parks, especially US parks, it was a net positive in a big way. IMO, Iger has been a net negative. You can't even compare.
This one's easy for me. Who was in charge when they bastardized "Journey into Imagination" and took away "Food Rocks?" That's the guy who sucks.

Cheers.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:08 AM   #100
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Was it though? DCA was an absolute bust. DMGMS wasn't much better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boundin' View Post
I specifically said US Parks. And MGM was certainly not a bust. Eisner had ideas and actually had creative input. Anyone who was given rein to create under a CEO, that CEO gets the credit.
I think DMGM is Eisner at his best and worst and showed how his two sides could create amazing synergy. When he heard about Universal opening in Orlando, he was determined to beat them, and did, with a mediocre product, but it grew over time into a pretty amazing park, IMO.

Ego got it going. Creativity brought it home.

I think it lost its soul once it stopped being an active studio, which I think also started under Eisner but I'm sure Iger was involved given his place in the company. After that, it was a collection of stuff in search of a mission. It wasn't until Everest opened that AK began to catch up with DHS and took a year or two more before it passed DHS in attendance.

Whatever the park is going to be can be great, but it was pretty sweet.

That's what unsettles me about WDW - half the parks are essentially being re-invented into something totally different than what they were meant to be. Doesn't mean they'll be bad parks, but something is being lost in the process that many fans treasured.

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