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Old 12-03-2019, 09:28 AM   #81
carolina_yankee
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There are certainly people here who know a lot more about this than I do, so the following is more question/supposition than anything else.

It seems that, with all the new development at DHS and Epcot now, and what was done recently at MK and AK, they are giving quite a lot of money to new, creative development. Certainly the vision I saw for the Epcot transformation (basically into EPCOT, to a large degree) looks very creative.

Cheers.
It does, and I played with that word but wasn't happy with it.

I think I'm referring more to certain cutbacks in streetmosphere and "place-making" cutbacks in Batu to make it more dynamic. That is creative in that it creates more immersive, multi-dimensional experiences.

I also think a lot of the attraction re-dos during Iger's tenure have been tepid (Spaceship Earth comes to mind - despite new scenes, a vastly inferior artistic product to its predecessors in script, score, and ending).

I'm not a glass is half-empty person on this, because a lot of good stuff is happening, but I think there's a bit more that's needed at WDW that I'm not sure it will get. I think the 50th will tell the tale. For Epcot, I don't think the tale will be fully told until around 2025. That's 6 years . . .

At any rate, I'm one of about 3 people in Disney fandom who respects Iger, so I'm not the poster-child of disgruntlement. If anything, I see good things that could be great, and great things, that could be stellar. That's generally what I expect from Disney.

Dirk
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:42 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
At any rate, I'm one of about 3 people in Disney fandom who respects Iger, so I'm not the poster-child of disgruntlement. If anything, I see good things that could be great, and great things, that could be stellar. That's generally what I expect from Disney.

I like what Iger has done for Disney overall. There has been tremendous growth and expansion, especially the past 8 years. I don't like all the price gauging and margin squeezes, but I get it. Eisner/Wells set the foundation for Iger to expand upon. Iger would not be as successful if is was not for them.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:42 AM   #83
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No doubt Iger has been great for the SHs. Not so sure he has been great for CMs or park-goers. I wish he was a bit more like Eisner in the artistic visionary sense.
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:08 AM   #84
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No doubt Iger has been great for the SHs. Not so sure he has been great for CMs or park-goers. I wish he was a bit more like Eisner in the artistic visionary sense.
I think Eisner in his early period and Igor have a lot of similarities.

Both came out of the studio side of the business, ‘though Eisner came from films and Igor came from TV (particularly sports).

Both saw the importance of Animation to the Disney company, ‘though Eisner was able to revitalize it internally for a while and Igor recognized that an acquisition of characters and talent was needed.

Both saw the importance of defending the company’s assets by making it larger through acquisitions, ‘though Eisner’s acquisition of ABC/Cap Cities has obviously been dwarfed by Iger’s acquisitions of Pixar, Marvel, Lucas Films and Fox.
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:56 PM   #85
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~
I think I'm referring more to certain cutbacks in streetmosphere and "place-making" cutbacks in Batu to make it more dynamic. That is creative in that it creates more immersive, multi-dimensional experiences.

I also think a lot of the attraction re-dos during Iger's tenure have been tepid (Spaceship Earth comes to mind - despite new scenes, a vastly inferior artistic product to its predecessors in script, score, and ending).
Dirk, during the 1st week of November we were run down and accosted at HS by street performers every day - with that tier system we were there almost every day - and considering we don't stay in the parks more than a few hours, I think that is saying the performers are back.

I have to admit that I enjoyed the 'tepid' redo of Spaceship Earth.

I don't know whether I'll ever do more that Olga's in SWGE area but it does make a nice walk thru. I do think they need more character protection - that Chewbacker guy was inundated and his escort wasn't doing much for him.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:08 PM   #86
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Not sure whose time it was but the lowest we experienced CM malaise was 2005/6. On vacation I don't need reinforcement of my 'idiot' status. The treatment experienced at the hotels and parks are the reason to this day I try to have minimal inter-action with characters/CMs anywhere in WDW. I smile politely (although I admit with this western European face it probably looks like a grimace), try to have needed items in hand before approaching, and try to 'fix' things without DH present as his patience for abruptness or whispering is even less than mine.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:19 PM   #87
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No doubt Iger has been great for the SHs. Not so sure he has been great for CMs or park-goers. I wish he was a bit more like Eisner in the artistic visionary sense.
Eisner was good at that. But was Eisner good for CMs or park-goers on the financial side of things? He held the reins during the slash and burn of park openings, park entertainment post 9-11. Ticket prices have gone up above inflation for decades. Deluxes were always out of our price range for long trips and we could never see the point in them for short, park-focused trips. DVC was my pathway to Deluxe Disney.

It was interesting watching the Imagineering documentary on Epcot's opening. The Imagineers came to dread December as Disney kept laying them off just before Christmas and was planning on shuttering the whole division. Now, that was pre-Eisner, but Iger is not unique with regard to corporate behavior.

Indeed, some would say Walt wasn't that great, either.

I don't defend treating employees poorly, but I don't see Iger as the symbol of it. He's not as good as some and better than others, as most CEOs are.

Dirk
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:23 PM   #88
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Both saw the importance of Animation to the Disney company, ‘though Eisner was able to revitalize it internally for a while and Igor recognized that an acquisition of characters and talent was needed.
This struck me in Iger's memoir, if I'm remembering correctly. One of the reasons he was so gung-ho on getting Pixar into the fold was because he had zero confidence Disney Animation - in the state it was in during Eisner's last years - could produce a credible movie. About that time was the period of such "notable entries" greenlit under Eisner as Chicken Little, Home on the Range, Meet the Robinsons . . .

Kind of ironic since Eisner got us the Disney renaissance in the first place!

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Old 12-03-2019, 02:26 PM   #89
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Dirk, during the 1st week of November we were run down and accosted at HS by street performers every day - with that tier system we were there almost every day - and considering we don't stay in the parks more than a few hours, I think that is saying the performers are back.
That's good to hear. Will be interesting to see if they are there in the quiet of late January.

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I have to admit that I enjoyed the 'tepid' redo of Spaceship Earth.
I'm fine with it up to the descent. I would prefer they moved the "build your own future" to post-show and had more scenes in the descent.

I don't like the script. I thought Jeremy Irons and Walter Cronkite both had better scripts to work with. I'm fine with using Judi Dench as a narrator, but more volume please!

I miss the chariot running up the road in the Rome scene. That was cool! I also like the Renaissance music better in the last version, but these last two are just my personal connections. What's there in that part is fine.

Dirk
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:32 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
Eisner was good at that. But was Eisner good for CMs or park-goers on the financial side of things? He held the reins during the slash and burn of park openings, park entertainment post 9-11. Ticket prices have gone up above inflation for decades. Deluxes were always out of our price range for long trips and we could never see the point in them for short, park-focused trips. DVC was my pathway to Deluxe Disney.

It was interesting watching the Imagineering documentary on Epcot's opening. The Imagineers came to dread December as Disney kept laying them off just before Christmas and was planning on shuttering the whole division. Now, that was pre-Eisner, but Iger is not unique with regard to corporate behavior.

Indeed, some would say Walt wasn't that great, either.

I don't defend treating employees poorly, but I don't see Iger as the symbol of it. He's not as good as some and better than others, as most CEOs are.

Dirk
I can't blame Eisner for what happened post 9-11. It was a difficult time.

When I look at Eisner's era for the parks, especially US parks, it was a net positive in a big way. IMO, Iger has been a net negative. You can't even compare.

But my enduring image of Igor's rein (I like that Igor spelling), will be IT people training their foreign replacements and being forced to sign NDAs to get a bit of severance. Wrong on so many different levels.
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