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Old 09-15-2021, 01:40 AM   #1661
MouseWiz
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Originally Posted by mustinjourney View Post
What about people that have natural immunity?

Should they also have to get vaccinated?

If so, why?

Please support with scientific basis.

If not, then it would seem to me that mandatory vaccination is an overreach.

But then again, Iím just a Neanderthal from the south. Numbers and science stuff confuse me.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

That is a link to a recent study done to compare the effectiveness of natural immunity vs vaccine immunity.

Researchers found that, among hundreds of Kentucky residents with previous infections through June 2021, those who were unvaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with those who were fully vaccinated. CDC says the research suggests that among people who have had COVID-19 previously, getting fully vaccinated provides additional protection against reinfection.

Another issue with immunity from a covid infection is to what degree did you get ill. This variable can cause widely different immune responses, whereas in vaccination this variable is more controlled. There also seems to be a longer lasting protection from vaccines than from a covid infection, and to point out the obvious, a covid infection is a more dangerous route to achieve some immune protection.
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:04 AM   #1662
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Originally Posted by D C View Post
Is that something I should get?
Not unless you're at risk through either sex or exposure to blood and body fluids (like me).

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Originally Posted by MamaB24 View Post
It took me two rounds to get immunity on this one for work as well. I’m not sure what happens if you don’t get it on the second try?
I was told that if it didn't work after repeating the series, it wouldn't. I didn't get a third and it wasn't suggested.
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:17 AM   #1663
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Michigan has actually come out of the stone ages and put their adult vaccination records online.

I downloaded mine today to see what they said and how accurate they were.
Flu shots 2017,2019,2020. Haven't missed one in over 20 years
Tetanus shots in 14,17,19. Sounds about right. I should be able to connect those with urgent care visits.
MMR, no
Heb B, no
Varicella, No
Hep A, No
2009 H1N1, 2010. Don't honestly recall this as a unique thing

and of course both covid jabs were in there

Considering that I have no recollection and no ready record of the missing ones, I guess it's not half bad, but not all that useful, either except if I have to prove covid vaccination.
Very interesting....
Where would I find this? (Maybe I'll ask again on Saturday, but you might not be able to think then....)
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:23 AM   #1664
D C
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Originally Posted by kzrooster View Post
Very interesting....
Where would I find this? (Maybe I'll ask again on Saturday, but you might not be able to think then....)
https://www.mcir.org/public/

then in the top box is a link to MIImms (apparently the best acronym they cold think of)

https://mdhhsmiimmsportal.state.mi.us/

It requires a login and an upload of a photo of your drivers license to verify identity.

Might not be thinking of that on Saturday
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:24 AM   #1665
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Originally Posted by tammymacb View Post
Not unless you're at risk through either sex or exposure to blood and body fluids (like me).

I was told that if it didn't work after repeating the series, it wouldn't. I didn't get a third and it wasn't suggested.
Hopefully my own blood doesn't count. I'm no stranger to that being on the wrong side of my skin.
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:33 AM   #1666
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Originally Posted by mustinjourney View Post
What about people that have natural immunity?

Should they also have to get vaccinated?

If so, why?

Please support with scientific basis.

If not, then it would seem to me that mandatory vaccination is an overreach.

But then again, Iím just a Neanderthal from the south. Numbers and science stuff confuse me.
One significant problem is proving that you had covid. From false positives on one end of the spectrum to an entire family getting sick but only one of them being tested on the other end, proof is a tall order. Antibody tests are generally unreliable, too.

If "immunity" is required, it's a lot easier to substantiate a jab than an illness.
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:46 AM   #1667
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Originally Posted by MouseWiz View Post
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

That is a link to a recent study done to compare the effectiveness of natural immunity vs vaccine immunity.

Researchers found that, among hundreds of Kentucky residents with previous infections through June 2021, those who were unvaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with those who were fully vaccinated. CDC says the research suggests that among people who have had COVID-19 previously, getting fully vaccinated provides additional protection against reinfection.

Another issue with immunity from a covid infection is to what degree did you get ill. This variable can cause widely different immune responses, whereas in vaccination this variable is more controlled. There also seems to be a longer lasting protection from vaccines than from a covid infection, and to point out the obvious, a covid infection is a more dangerous route to achieve some immune protection.
Thank you for the reply.

My understanding is that study cited by the CDC has a few problems. Notably, it suffers from using a small sample of data when there was a much larger pool of data to look at.

Here’sa more detailed analysis that I’ve seen.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...re-11631548306

Quote:
The CDC did put out a study on natural immunity last month, forcefully concluding that vaccinated immunity was 2.3 times better than natural immunity. The CDC used these results to justify telling those with natural immunity to get vaccinated.

But the rate of infection in each group was less than 0.01%, meaning infections were exceedingly rare in the short two-month time period the agency chose to study. This is odd, given there are more than a year of data available. Moreover, despite having data on all 50 states, the CDC only reported data from Kentucky. Was Kentucky the only state that produced the desired result? Why else exclude the same data from the other 49 states?

Some public health officials are afraid to acknowledge natural immunity because they fear some will choose infection over vaccination. But leaders can encourage all Americans who aren’t immune to get vaccinated and be transparent with the data at the same time.

The CDC shouldn’t fish for data to support outdated hypotheses. Heeding the robust Israeli data on natural immunity could help restore the agency’s credibility and even help vaccination efforts.
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:47 AM   #1668
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Originally Posted by D C View Post
One significant problem is proving that you had covid. From false positives on one end of the spectrum to an entire family getting sick but only one of them being tested on the other end, proof is a tall order. Antibody tests are generally unreliable, too.

If "immunity" is required, it's a lot easier to substantiate a jab than an illness.
Why are antibody tests unreliable?
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Old 09-15-2021, 09:10 AM   #1669
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Originally Posted by mustinjourney View Post
Thank you for the reply.

My understanding is that study cited by the CDC has a few problems. Notably, it suffers from using a small sample of data when there was a much larger pool of data to look at.

Hereísa more detailed analysis that Iíve seen.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...re-11631548306
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Old 09-15-2021, 09:10 AM   #1670
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Originally Posted by D C View Post
https://www.mcir.org/public/

then in the top box is a link to MIImms (apparently the best acronym they cold think of)

https://mdhhsmiimmsportal.state.mi.us/

It requires a login and an upload of a photo of your drivers license to verify identity.

Might not be thinking of that on Saturday
Thanks! Iíll investigate this further this evening.

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