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Old 01-21-2019, 07:53 PM   #71
D C
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One of the clear problems is the ADA itself, and our silly (in this case) medical privacy laws.
Is the dog a service dog?
What task is it trained to perform?

That's it. Nothing at all regarding a statement of need. No medical professional. No letter from mom. Nothing. And nobody can legally inquire with a "why".

This opens the doors to the fake service dogs. I could say "yes, my dog is a service dog" "it detects seizures before they happen"

If I was a veteran with ptsd, that's a legitimate and fantastic reason to have a dog. If not it's a shitty thing to lie about. The law provides no protection against those who choose to lie.
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:37 PM   #72
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Why is it not fair to expect a cast member to have the occasionally ugly job of enforcing rules?

Enforcing rules at the happiest, most inclusive place on earth is bound to be uncomfortable. I'm not sure why dogs are an exception.
Welp, since I’m one of those that regularly uses Disney hotels and property as a training environment for service dogs in training, I can add to this conversation. You will never see me with a dog in training in the theme park. Ever. It’s not fair to the dog. Fireworks are an absolute non starter. If my dog is out of sorts or stressed, I’m out of there. Do I show up on the boats, monorail, busses, restaurants, and in the hotels? Absolutely. It’s a complex late training environment for the dogs near the end of their time with me and soon to be going into their full time training program.

I’ve been challenged less than a half dozen times by Disney staff as to the dogs status.i don’t mind. Disney is very professional in its approach. The dogs I’ve trained are easy to recognize by the professional coat with clear wording linking it to a well j own training non profit in the state. Of course, I can tell (like most people) the difference between a training dog/dog in training and a fake service animal. Most of the dogs I see now in Disney are not legitimate in my opinion. It’s been more frequent since the influx of fake service animals in the past year or so. And yes, those fake animals do make it more difficult to train.

With all that said, some of my personal favorite training stories come from Disney cast members. I can distinctly recall standing in wilderness lodge a couple of years ago with a dog sitting in the corner watching goofy from about 50 feet away interact with guests. When goofy left to go backstage, he came over and interacted with my dog. Goofy didn’t need to come over and I wasn’t looking for it. I was happy with just having the dog observe. I was nowhere near the exit door. Goofy and his handler did it because they were just doing what Disney cast members do. It was a great experience for the dog, and I have one of my favorite photos of the interaction to remember why I do what I do with the dogs.

That particular dog is now assigned to a young girl who is blind and has a whole host of medical issues as well. God bless that dog and the difference it will make in that young girls life. Disney cast members were a part in shaping who that dog became.
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:21 PM   #73
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Welp, since Iím one of those that regularly uses Disney hotels and property as a training environment for service dogs in training, I can add to this conversation. You will never see me with a dog in training in the theme park. Ever. Itís not fair to the dog. Fireworks are an absolute non starter. If my dog is out of sorts or stressed, Iím out of there. Do I show up on the boats, monorail, busses, restaurants, and in the hotels? Absolutely. Itís a complex late training environment for the dogs near the end of their time with me and soon to be going into their full time training program.

Iíve been challenged less than a half dozen times by Disney staff as to the dogs status.i donít mind. Disney is very professional in its approach. The dogs Iíve trained are easy to recognize by the professional coat with clear wording linking it to a well j own training non profit in the state. Of course, I can tell (like most people) the difference between a training dog/dog in training and a fake service animal. Most of the dogs I see now in Disney are not legitimate in my opinion. Itís been more frequent since the influx of fake service animals in the past year or so. And yes, those fake animals do make it more difficult to train.

With all that said, some of my personal favorite training stories come from Disney cast members. I can distinctly recall standing in wilderness lodge a couple of years ago with a dog sitting in the corner watching goofy from about 50 feet away interact with guests. When goofy left to go backstage, he came over and interacted with my dog. Goofy didnít need to come over and I wasnít looking for it. I was happy with just having the dog observe. I was nowhere near the exit door. Goofy and his handler did it because they were just doing what Disney cast members do. It was a great experience for the dog, and I have one of my favorite photos of the interaction to remember why I do what I do with the dogs.

That particular dog is now assigned to a young girl who is blind and has a whole host of medical issues as well. God bless that dog and the difference it will make in that young girls life. Disney cast members were a part in shaping who that dog became.

Thanks so much for sharing! And thanks for all you do.
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Old 01-21-2019, 11:53 PM   #74
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Except ESAs are not allowed either. So no, it should not have been allowed. Only legitimate *service animals* are allowed. ESAs are not service animals. I'm sorry I sound rude about this but I loathe when people do what they did. seriously it's entitlement at its best.

FTR you can ask certain questions that distinguish between an ESA and service animal. I really wish Disney would enforce this and start asking away to get the fakers out.
AMEN to what you said here.
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:01 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by fsulaw2001 View Post
Welp, since Iím one of those that regularly uses Disney hotels and property as a training environment for service dogs in training, I can add to this conversation. You will never see me with a dog in training in the theme park. Ever. Itís not fair to the dog. Fireworks are an absolute non starter. If my dog is out of sorts or stressed, Iím out of there. Do I show up on the boats, monorail, busses, restaurants, and in the hotels? Absolutely. Itís a complex late training environment for the dogs near the end of their time with me and soon to be going into their full time training program.

Iíve been challenged less than a half dozen times by Disney staff as to the dogs status.i donít mind. Disney is very professional in its approach. The dogs Iíve trained are easy to recognize by the professional coat with clear wording linking it to a well j own training non profit in the state. Of course, I can tell (like most people) the difference between a training dog/dog in training and a fake service animal. Most of the dogs I see now in Disney are not legitimate in my opinion. Itís been more frequent since the influx of fake service animals in the past year or so. And yes, those fake animals do make it more difficult to train.

With all that said, some of my personal favorite training stories come from Disney cast members. I can distinctly recall standing in wilderness lodge a couple of years ago with a dog sitting in the corner watching goofy from about 50 feet away interact with guests. When goofy left to go backstage, he came over and interacted with my dog. Goofy didnít need to come over and I wasnít looking for it. I was happy with just having the dog observe. I was nowhere near the exit door. Goofy and his handler did it because they were just doing what Disney cast members do. It was a great experience for the dog, and I have one of my favorite photos of the interaction to remember why I do what I do with the dogs.

That particular dog is now assigned to a young girl who is blind and has a whole host of medical issues as well. God bless that dog and the difference it will make in that young girls life. Disney cast members were a part in shaping who that dog became.

Thank you for being such a considerate trainer . And most of us agree the crowded parks during fireworks is not the best place for training .
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:17 AM   #76
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One of the clear problems is the ADA itself, and our silly (in this case) medical privacy laws.
Is the dog a service dog?
What task is it trained to perform?

That's it. Nothing at all regarding a statement of need. No medical professional. No letter from mom. Nothing. And nobody can legally inquire with a "why".

This opens the doors to the fake service dogs. I could say "yes, my dog is a service dog" "it detects seizures before they happen"

If I was a veteran with ptsd, that's a legitimate and fantastic reason to have a dog. If not it's a shitty thing to lie about. The law provides no protection against those who choose to lie.

Here is part of the issue with this...would you want to disclose all your medical "issues" to people who asked? It becomes a violation of privacy to some degree. People generally don't want to be defined by their disability. Some are just easier to detect than others. I agree that it allows people to take advantage of things though too. The fact that some states are now redefining the laws and making it a civil infraction is a step in the right direction. I am not sure what Florida's current law states.
There are plenty of public places I have visited with a dog in training that clearly taught their employees to ask these questions. Sometimes places know to do it b/c they have had problems with "pets". I was once in BJs Wholesale and an employee asked those very questions...she later stated that it was obvious the dog I was working with was well trained (he was ultimately matched with a veteran)...but that they had problems with dogs coming in and counter surfing- attempting to eat samples of food left out.
Even though ADA law covers service dogs- they can still be tossed out of an establishment if they are displaying poor behavior. Because it is an issue with more and more public places...employees should receive some training around this area.
I once was called in to do cadet training (before the law was redefined) where I had to pretend like I was showing up to a restaurant with a service dog. A police officer had to pretend he was the restaurant owner who was attempting to kick me out. The cadets needed to enter the "mystery situation" and interpret what they thought the next move should be based on the claims. It played out a lot like how a domestic dispute might...he said/she said. In the end- there was a lot of gray area for the cadets to comprehend, but the rules needed to be enforced.
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:21 AM   #77
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Thank you for being such a considerate trainer . And most of us agree the crowded parks during fireworks is not the best place for training .
Fireworks are actually one of the top reasons why pets go missing. A lot of pets go missing during July 4th weekends.
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Old 01-22-2019, 04:08 AM   #78
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Here is part of the issue with this...would you want to disclose all your medical "issues" to people who asked? It becomes a violation of privacy to some degree. People generally don't want to be defined by their disability. Some are just easier to detect than others. I agree that it allows people to take advantage of things though too. The fact that some states are now redefining the laws and making it a civil infraction is a step in the right direction. I am not sure what Florida's current law states.
There are plenty of public places I have visited with a dog in training that clearly taught their employees to ask these questions. Sometimes places know to do it b/c they have had problems with "pets". I was once in BJs Wholesale and an employee asked those very questions...she later stated that it was obvious the dog I was working with was well trained (he was ultimately matched with a veteran)...but that they had problems with dogs coming in and counter surfing- attempting to eat samples of food left out.
Even though ADA law covers service dogs- they can still be tossed out of an establishment if they are displaying poor behavior. Because it is an issue with more and more public places...employees should receive some training around this area.
I once was called in to do cadet training (before the law was redefined) where I had to pretend like I was showing up to a restaurant with a service dog. A police officer had to pretend he was the restaurant owner who was attempting to kick me out. The cadets needed to enter the "mystery situation" and interpret what they thought the next move should be based on the claims. It played out a lot like how a domestic dispute might...he said/she said. In the end- there was a lot of gray area for the cadets to comprehend, but the rules needed to be enforced.


Very interesting. Thanks so much for all you do as well. Truly a shame your efforts get clouded by the irresponsibility of others.
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Old 01-22-2019, 08:36 AM   #79
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Fireworks are actually one of the top reasons why pets go missing. A lot of pets go missing during July 4th weekends.
I work with groups that try to find lost animals now. Those are always the biggest issue. We have an area in the neighborhood that fires them off throughout the year and we've had a lot of animals bolt because of it. One more or less was so strong that the owner could not keep hold of the leash. Was hit by a car and had to be found after that. The dog was found and recovered but still.

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Originally Posted by bassetbeauty View Post
Here is part of the issue with this...would you want to disclose all your medical "issues" to people who asked? It becomes a violation of privacy to some degree. People generally don't want to be defined by their disability. Some are just easier to detect than others. I agree that it allows people to take advantage of things though too. The fact that some states are now redefining the laws and making it a civil infraction is a step in the right direction. I am not sure what Florida's current law states.
There are plenty of public places I have visited with a dog in training that clearly taught their employees to ask these questions. Sometimes places know to do it b/c they have had problems with "pets". I was once in BJs Wholesale and an employee asked those very questions...she later stated that it was obvious the dog I was working with was well trained (he was ultimately matched with a veteran)...but that they had problems with dogs coming in and counter surfing- attempting to eat samples of food left out.
Even though ADA law covers service dogs- they can still be tossed out of an establishment if they are displaying poor behavior. Because it is an issue with more and more public places...employees should receive some training around this area.
I once was called in to do cadet training (before the law was redefined) where I had to pretend like I was showing up to a restaurant with a service dog. A police officer had to pretend he was the restaurant owner who was attempting to kick me out. The cadets needed to enter the "mystery situation" and interpret what they thought the next move should be based on the claims. It played out a lot like how a domestic dispute might...he said/she said. In the end- there was a lot of gray area for the cadets to comprehend, but the rules needed to be enforced.
Thank you so much for what you do. Really and truly.

I think if we didn't have the issue of disclosing the health issue it wouldn't be quite as hard. Some are obvious (like my friend who is blind is super obvious) and others are not.

I appreciate that you are training and helping the ways you are! And the story above is quite interesting.
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:46 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by D C View Post
Why is it not fair to expect a cast member to have the occasionally ugly job of enforcing rules?

Enforcing rules at the happiest, most inclusive place on earth is bound to be uncomfortable. I'm not sure why dogs are an exception.
Disney, known for excellent customer service, can certainly train their CMs to stand firm in "magical" ways. Even if they don't want the lowest paid, front-line CM to deal with it, the next level up isn't that far away and should definitely have that ability in their tool box of skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C View Post
One of the clear problems is the ADA itself, and our silly (in this case) medical privacy laws.
Is the dog a service dog?
What task is it trained to perform?

That's it. Nothing at all regarding a statement of need. No medical professional. No letter from mom. Nothing. And nobody can legally inquire with a "why".

This opens the doors to the fake service dogs. I could say "yes, my dog is a service dog" "it detects seizures before they happen"

If I was a veteran with ptsd, that's a legitimate and fantastic reason to have a dog. If not it's a shitty thing to lie about. The law provides no protection against those who choose to lie.
I agree - it's that simple. If a guest lies, there is little Disney can do, but chances are it either a) won't be a problem so then there is no actual negative impact, or b) said entitled guest will let their entitlement show in other ways that Disney can intervene in some fashion.

There is definitely no ADA rule that says just because Mimi says Fifi is a service dog that Fifi gets to sit in a high chair at Cape May and eat off the menu, plate, table, floor, etc . . .

Nor does Fifi get to poop or pee in the lobby. "I'm sorry. It is expected the service animals be properly trained. We can no longer accommodate Fifi and we welcome you to return with a properly trained service animal." Some times the British use of passive voice and be quite helpful - polite but also unyielding.

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