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Old 02-11-2019, 01:43 PM   #41
amiemm
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Originally Posted by Jcsquirrel View Post
It is like anything in this world it is an issue of priorities and budgeting. I am sure for some this is just pure disposable income that requires no thought or planning, but for others it is a choice. With planning and making a family vacation a priority, I don't think it by any means is out of the questions. The proof is in the pudding so to speak, despite price increases and a lack on incentives attendance had held or grown. Now I agree many people put no more planning into Disney then there other disastrous financial decisions but we are a society that loves credit and until the economy slows those people will not care. Our ultimate Disney goal was family and it has been the best money I have ever spent. It gives us not only something to do together but something to talk about throughout the year. We have been lucky to be able to bring other family members who have never gone and as my kids are getting older we find new challenges and magic. As stupid as this sounds, my favorite moment on every trip is when we are driving from the airport and we pass the welcome to Disney sign. I can honestly say there is nothing in this world that lowers my stress and just makes everything feel in place than that simple moment. I still love the magic of feeling you are in some remote place isolated to a world of it's own. The little things from clean sidewalks to CM who almost always have a smile, to just little seeing little Mickey Heads in the oddest of places just makes me smile. We all make choice from the size of our house, the car we drive, to the price of our wardrobe. Disney is expensive but it is a choice that requires some planning and preparation. The first thing I tell people when they bring up a Disney trip is decided how much you want to spend, because you can always spend more and there are great ways to do it on a budget.
Beautifully said, my friend!
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:56 PM   #42
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https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/...YR_DP03&src=pt

According to the Census Bureau, the median household income is $57,652. Making $150,000 or more would put a household in the 88th percentile. There might be a more specific 90th percentile somewhere, but I was going for expedience. Of course that still doesn't identify exactly what middle class is. I guess I just find census data to be interesting.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:18 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Jcsquirrel View Post
It is like anything in this world it is an issue of priorities and budgeting. I am sure for some this is just pure disposable income that requires no thought or planning, but for others it is a choice. With planning and making a family vacation a priority, I don't think it by any means is out of the questions. The proof is in the pudding so to speak, despite price increases and a lack on incentives attendance had held or grown. Now I agree many people put no more planning into Disney then there other disastrous financial decisions but we are a society that loves credit and until the economy slows those people will not care. Our ultimate Disney goal was family and it has been the best money I have ever spent. It gives us not only something to do together but something to talk about throughout the year. We have been lucky to be able to bring other family members who have never gone and as my kids are getting older we find new challenges and magic. As stupid as this sounds, my favorite moment on every trip is when we are driving from the airport and we pass the welcome to Disney sign. I can honestly say there is nothing in this world that lowers my stress and just makes everything feel in place than that simple moment. I still love the magic of feeling you are in some remote place isolated to a world of it's own. The little things from clean sidewalks to CM who almost always have a smile, to just little seeing little Mickey Heads in the oddest of places just makes me smile. We all make choice from the size of our house, the car we drive, to the price of our wardrobe. Disney is expensive but it is a choice that requires some planning and preparation. The first thing I tell people when they bring up a Disney trip is decided how much you want to spend, because you can always spend more and there are great ways to do it on a budget.
Well said!!
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:35 PM   #44
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In the early 90’s, I considered myself middle class while earning $65,000/yr. Every second year we would go at Christmas time for a few weeks staying at a deluxe resort. At that time I got five weeks holidays plus a week at Christmas time. I would use my holiday pay plus extra money and use it for Disney and only take two weeks of my five weeks holidays in the summer time. It was an expensive vacation. The best thing that I learned was the value of DVC. Buying points at $70 a point has made Disney affordable now that We are both retired and have children/grandchildren that still go with us, even though our pension income is not considered middle class
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by henrycpa91 View Post
Assume you are a couple in late 30's or early 40's each making $60K per year. you have a $2000 per month mortgage, each have a car payment of $500, you have Student loans of $1000 per month, and property taxes of $5000 per year. Do you really feel like a 90%'er? How about a 95%'er?
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Now, there are areas of the US that $118K is a decent standard of living. And areas where that is not so much. Hence why so many making that family income feel affronted when they are told they are a 90%er...
Y'all are making the case that $120k is not a great living?

If you have a $2k mortgage, then you may have a 3/4 million dollar house so your retirement is planned for by selling that asset. Hopefully a family making $120k in their 40's is not running dual-$500 car payments. Student loan of $1000 by 40's?

$120k income gives you $7500/mo net. Even at $2000+$500+$500+$1000 that leaves you $3500 discretionary.

With a more modest house, leaving off the student debt and call that $500 2nd car payment your insurance and utility bills... $1500+$500+$500 leaves you $5000 discretionary.

At these levels you can afford to live decent in California, and you'd be living very well in the rest of the country.

If you were making the case for $40k+$40k=$80k you'd have me at it being tough to get ahead... but at $120k I have a different view from you. That's a nice house that covers retirement, surplus income, plus money going into 401k from each employer. The top 10% have these things going for them. It doesn't mean you're on Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous buying yachts or islands.

I'm not saying everyone should post all their extra expenses that make life tough. Just that at $120k you should appreciate that you're ahead of the game and you've done well.

Last edited by fuzzylogic; 02-11-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:54 PM   #46
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I recently read a crazy statistic that 58% of American households have less than $1000 in savings. Median household savings is $4,500. Families prioritize paying for their cell phones over their cars and their cars over their mortgages. Not sure how true these stats are but I find it surprising that vacation destinations such as Disney are bursting at the seams! Based on this, I would say most of the middle class “cant afford” a vacation like Disney but prioritize it over other things and go. I know of two families that took a weeklong vacation at the Grand Floridian with deluxe dining plan and lots of extras right before filing for bankruptcy.
I just read a bankruptcy case where the debtors had 2000 DVC points. Right before filing (about 6 months), they transferred 1250 points to their son and his wife "as payment for working at their shop." Then, after filing, they used 750 points to go on a big family vacation. 750 points on one vacation!!! while you're supposedly broke!

I can see what the two families you speak of were thinking though. They knew the money was going to go to the creditors, so they might as well spend it. In essence, they got a free vacation out of the deal. I suppose if you're going to be broke, you might as well be really broke.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:01 PM   #47
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to me, the more interesting question is "can the middle class still afford to buy dvc?" dvc ownership seriously limits the ability to go to wdw on the cheap. perhaps if buying a great deal resale, but more than a few points direct...methinks not.

i think most of us are in the upper-middle to lower-upper class...determined not just by income but also education, source of the money, white/blue collar job, subcultures belong to, etc.

i think another big bunch of us have paid off the major expenses of life and have more discretionary income that we used to.

perhaps most importantly, a chunk of us have the cash on hand to buy and not finance. i don't think most younger "middle class" folks are in this position.

dvc saves money over booking direct, but it's certainly not the cheapest option. geez, even values are not the cheapest option. and dvc makes one think about and plan more frequent trips.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:09 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by helenabear View Post
I read that $118,000 was an average for the 90-95%. It's actually slightly slower than that for 10%

1%: $250,000
5%: $130,000
10%: $90,000
20%: $60,000
30%: $45,000
40%: $35,000
50%: $30,000
60%: $20,000 – $24,999
70%: $15,000
80%: $5,000 — $9,999
90%: $0.01 — $4,999

https://wallethacks.com/average-medi...me-in-america/
that would mean there are 10% of the wage earning population making $5000 a year? If that counts high school and college kids working part time jobs, then it should probably be redone, b/c that is going to skew the statistics.


Also -- that link states that the median income was around $57k -- but then later it says that in order to be in the top 50% of earners, you'd need to make about $30,000.

These two statements are at odds with each other. By definition, the median is the point at which there are 50% above and 50% below.

*ETA -- as DVCER pointed out -- the discrepancy appears to be discussing household income and single earner wages in the same topic. First number is household income and second number is individual wage earner.

Last edited by mustinjourney; 02-11-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:13 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by jnoel View Post
Hmmm we have conflicting data it appears.

https://www.investopedia.com/persona...ou-top-1-5-10/

I wonder why it’s so different.
Your link states the average salaries of each percentile, whereas hers discloses the point at which you cross over into the new spot.

So in order to make it into the top 1% club -- you need to make at least $250,000. However, you will be the minnow of the group, b/c you have guys like Bill Gates and Buffet hang out here too. So the average salary is $718,000.

Median salary would be a better statistic to have a better grasp of what the "normal" 1% person makes.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:16 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by mustinjourney View Post
that would mean there are 10% of the wage earning population making $5000 a year? If that counts high school and college kids working part time jobs, then it should probably be redone, b/c that is going to skew the statistics.


Also -- that link states that the median income was around $57k -- but then later it says that in order to be in the top 50% of earners, you'd need to make about $30,000.

These two statements are at odds with each other. By definition, the median is the point at which there are 50% above and 50% below.



i think they're mixing up total household income and income for one "earner."
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