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Old 02-13-2018, 07:35 PM   #241
cornbread4
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Originally Posted by uwdude View Post
I agree that Disney has probably done the most legally that they can do to restrict the perks to direct purchases from now on, since they didn't do that from the beginning. And this 75 point rule eliminates the 25 point add on to get the perks. And as much as I hate to say it, it really should be the direct purchasers paying the premium price who should get those extras, at least getting something for paying extra.

I'm torn on this. They're Disney's to hand out and recent direct purchasers paid more, so they're getting some perks with it. So on that basis, I don't begrudge Disney offering extra bonuses to entice more direct buyers or any of those who are receiving them. But the turnover on DVC is not likely so high that I haven't paid more than most direct owners and pre-4/4/16 resale owners.


There's something that just hits me wrong about impeding the value of property sold to an owner. We're not talking a one-time special bonus of a free trip or extra developer points. These are ongoing benefits of being a DVC owner that continue year-in, year-out that until recently, were very closely associated with being an owner. Why if I sell my property to someone else, is something lost along the way, lessening its value?

I understand Disney is an expert at maximizing revenue and that it's all been done legally. We've chosen not to pay extra for the privilege because we don't think they're worth the premium. So I'm not trying to claim victim status or any "whoah is me" or even trying to start a campaign to change anything. There's just something a little strange and bubble intruding about being asked by a CM at a store or restaurant if we're DVC members and answering "yes, but..."

I don't need my ego massaged or extra deference shown to me at WDW. I continue to feel lucky that my family can enjoy WDW so often- and hope not to spoil my son. I'm not looking for sympathy or to argue about it or anything like that. I guess I'm just sharing that the multi-tiered ownership feels a little bit off.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:15 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by cornbread4 View Post
I'm torn on this. They're Disney's to hand out and recent direct purchasers paid more, so they're getting some perks with it. So on that basis, I don't begrudge Disney offering extra bonuses to entice more direct buyers or any of those who are receiving them. But the turnover on DVC is not likely so high that I haven't paid more than most direct owners and pre-4/4/16 resale owners.


There's something that just hits me wrong about impeding the value of property sold to an owner. We're not talking a one-time special bonus of a free trip or extra developer points. These are ongoing benefits of being a DVC owner that continue year-in, year-out that until recently, were very closely associated with being an owner. Why if I sell my property to someone else, is something lost along the way, lessening its value?

I understand Disney is an expert at maximizing revenue and that it's all been done legally. We've chosen not to pay extra for the privilege because we don't think they're worth the premium. So I'm not trying to claim victim status or any "whoah is me" or even trying to start a campaign to change anything. There's just something a little strange and bubble intruding about being asked by a CM at a store or restaurant if we're DVC members and answering "yes, but..."

I don't need my ego massaged or extra deference shown to me at WDW. I continue to feel lucky that my family can enjoy WDW so often- and hope not to spoil my son. I'm not looking for sympathy or to argue about it or anything like that. I guess I'm just sharing that the multi-tiered ownership feels a little bit off.
I agree it's a lot off. Resale is resale even if Disney buys it in rofr. Should get reloaded to 50 year contrat if sold as new and your paying full price. I can't wait to see what happens when the 2042's get short. Probably no rofr then or all rofr taken and will start selling before end of current contracts. One thing for sure they will figure away to get every cent they can out of you.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:42 PM   #243
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Wow I didn't expect this, but my Poly 25pt waitlist came through today. I was added on Sunday afternoon!
Great timing....congratulations!
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:56 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by cornbread4 View Post
I'm torn on this. They're Disney's to hand out and recent direct purchasers paid more, so they're getting some perks with it. So on that basis, I don't begrudge Disney offering extra bonuses to entice more direct buyers or any of those who are receiving them. But the turnover on DVC is not likely so high that I haven't paid more than most direct owners and pre-4/4/16 resale owners.


There's something that just hits me wrong about impeding the value of property sold to an owner. We're not talking a one-time special bonus of a free trip or extra developer points. These are ongoing benefits of being a DVC owner that continue year-in, year-out that until recently, were very closely associated with being an owner. Why if I sell my property to someone else, is something lost along the way, lessening its value?

I understand Disney is an expert at maximizing revenue and that it's all been done legally. We've chosen not to pay extra for the privilege because we don't think they're worth the premium. So I'm not trying to claim victim status or any "whoah is me" or even trying to start a campaign to change anything. There's just something a little strange and bubble intruding about being asked by a CM at a store or restaurant if we're DVC members and answering "yes, but..."

I don't need my ego massaged or extra deference shown to me at WDW. I continue to feel lucky that my family can enjoy WDW so often- and hope not to spoil my son. I'm not looking for sympathy or to argue about it or anything like that. I guess I'm just sharing that the multi-tiered ownership feels a little bit off.
Yup, I understand and I agree with you. We elected to buy resale for the savings and we did it knowing that we weren't getting the perks. This past summer we were going to add on 25 points direct but we decided to buy 50 points resale instead, twice the points for a little more money.
So a few weeks ago we were at OKW and upgraded our tickets to Platinum APs and enjoyed the discounts. We're going again in April and again in December making the APs well worth it.

So I don't begrudge those who are saving more than we are or who are enjoying more benefits than we are. They paid for it and we didn't.

Yet I still understand the feeling of being "second class" even though it was our decision.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:06 AM   #245
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And I understand that too, as it wasn't really Walt's vision to have guests tiered like that. There was Club 33, but that was more like corporate memberships or really wealthy people. I dislike that Disney is becoming more and more a playground for the people who can pay premium prices for things. Your average person who who makes say 50k a year can't afford to pay $2500 for park tickets on top of a hotel stay, and pay $150 a night for a motel 6 style room. It's getting so that unless you're a local, it's mainly executives and their families that can afford stuff like Disney. And of course Disney loves that because those people are high profit customers.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:13 AM   #246
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And I understand that too, as it wasn't really Walt's vision to have guests tiered like that. There was Club 33, but that was more like corporate memberships or really wealthy people. I dislike that Disney is becoming more and more a playground for the people who can pay premium prices for things. Your average person who who makes say 50k a year can't afford to pay $2500 for park tickets on top of a hotel stay, and pay $150 a night for a motel 6 style room. It's getting so that unless you're a local, it's mainly executives and their families that can afford stuff like Disney. And of course Disney loves that because those people are high profit customers.
This argument is always kind of moot to me. None of us knew Walt and none of us would have a clue what he would want if he were alive now. He was a ruthless businessman so that answer is really hard to know.

I don't agree that it's only executives and those who can afford a lot of extras. I know many who go who do not fall into that at all. They just budget for it. Now they cannot afford DVC but that doesn't bother them.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:33 AM   #247
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And I understand that too, as it wasn't really Walt's vision to have guests tiered like that. There was Club 33, but that was more like corporate memberships or really wealthy people. I dislike that Disney is becoming more and more a playground for the people who can pay premium prices for things. Your average person who who makes say 50k a year can't afford to pay $2500 for park tickets on top of a hotel stay, and pay $150 a night for a motel 6 style room. It's getting so that unless you're a local, it's mainly executives and their families that can afford stuff like Disney. And of course Disney loves that because those people are high profit customers.
This argument kills me every time. It's in the comment thread of every single Disney related post on Facebook from Disney itself or one of those terrible "10 mind blowing secrets you never knew about Disney because you're a complete idiot"

It goes the same every time "Disney is too expensive, it's not fair, it's only for the rich, I'd love to take my 17 adopted children and their pet goldfish but I can't even put bread on the table working my 3 jobs as a single mother with a missing arm"

You want to show your kids a wonderful time at a cheap cost? Take them camping in a national park. Visit national landmarks, go for a walk in the forest. Then let them dress up as princesses for play time and watch some Disney movies.

Disney is a business and just because we're all brainwashed doesn't mean they owe us anything to make it "affordable" to everyone just because it's family orientated.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:30 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by helenabear View Post
This argument is always kind of moot to me. None of us knew Walt and none of us would have a clue what he would want if he were alive now. He was a ruthless businessman so that answer is really hard to know.


Sadly, Walt hasn't been with us for more than 50 years. He never even saw WDW open. It was started from his idea, but it was never really his.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:52 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by cornbread4 View Post
There's something that just hits me wrong about impeding the value of property sold to an owner. We're not talking a one-time special bonus of a free trip or extra developer points. These are ongoing benefits of being a DVC owner that continue year-in, year-out that until recently, were very closely associated with being an owner.
I'm having trouble understanding how these changes impede value. I don't see impeding value in the prices of resale. I don't see impeding value in the grandfathering in of current owners. I don't see impeding value in changing perks around over the years in that perks have always been advertised as subject to change.

If I pay a certain price for DVC membership in order to get a certain a perk and that perk goes away, making the price I paid seem over-valued, then that's on me - not Disney. To me, that's not so much a logical purchase as a roll of the dice. Disney says perks will change. Historically, perks have changed.

To me, the value in DVC is the ability to have a place to stay for which I've paid and is generally of higher quality than I would get for far more money out of my pocket over the numbers of trips I've taken, and the perks that I enjoy are just icing on the cake.

As for benefits and access to the scope of the membership program, Disney has never reduced those by making program changes retroactive.

At the end of the day, I can make a nearly $20 pp profit off of my purchase in 2006. That's a pretty damn good value in my book that has only increased significantly in the last couple of years - after Disney has made these changes. Indeed, for a timeshare, that's winning the lottery.

Dirk
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:07 AM   #250
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Most timeshare companies intentionally devalue their property once you buy it. There are fees for reselling, perks are not transferable, etc. They don't want to compete with resales. Many are worthless.

You buy a timeshare to use it. That's the value in it. It's usually a very poor investment. DVC is the exception to the rule.
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