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Old 05-20-2019, 01:11 PM   #11
carolina_yankee
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Originally Posted by Mickeyfan0805 View Post
I don't disagree on the argument that this may be a negotiating tactic as much as anything. This is a union rep - they know how to spin the media!

That said, I've seen this comment about power being the only point of failure a number of times, and it makes no sense to me. Pulleys could fail...lines could become jammed...a tower could be hit by a bus and become structurally compromised...the list goes on and on.

I'm not an alarmist by any extreme, but the notion that power is the only reason there could be a long-term stalling of the system assumes perfect function of the structural system on a permanent basis. Is a full shut-down likely? Probably not. But, my guess is that, someday, it will happen. And, if it happens, I'd suggest it is more likely that it would happen for some structural, non-power-related, reason!
I don't deny that something other than power failure could cause a need for evacuation, but I'm not sure buses get anywhere near the towers or the load zones.

It may be fairly easy to intentionally take down a tower though, if a terrorist were looking for a soft-target.

Dirk
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:34 PM   #12
Goofy Dad 13
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Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
.......

It may be fairly easy to intentionally take down a tower though, if a terrorist were looking for a soft-target.

Dirk
or a bus (or multiple busses).
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:18 PM   #13
Mickeyfan0805
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Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
I don't deny that something other than power failure could cause a need for evacuation, but I'm not sure buses get anywhere near the towers or the load zones.
Those were meant to be generic concepts, not specific issues - just making a point in light of the focus on power I've seen in many related conversations.

That said, the towers at HS are literally 2' from a parking spot, and only a few further from the drive. Many others are right off the edges of roads. While there are some small barrier posts there, it's not hard to imagine a wayward vehicle making contact and engineers being needed to confirm structural integrity before running the gondolas after an accident.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:52 PM   #14
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I spent a lot of my life being, among other things, a first responder on lift evac in the snowsports industry. Spent just a few hours inside the terminals of detach lifts...also riding in them. And evacing them. There are lots of things that can cause a situation where the haul rope (the cable that the cabins clamp onto) cannot be moved. That's when a full evac is typically called.

Power outages are typically covered by backup diesel engines or external electric generators. Easy-peasy........ but a "slow ride".

A full evac is complicated. And it takes a lot of evac teams. Even still.... it is still typically an hours-long process for the typical lift of about 1 mile length.

Add Florida heat and humidity and the potential of lightning storms... and I'm glad I'm not in a position of responsibility on that one.

best,

..................john
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:59 PM   #15
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Maybe they should just include roll up ladders that drop down like oxygen masks in an airplane. A trap door will unlock and open and people can just climb down whenever they stop.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:05 PM   #16
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Maybe they should just include roll up ladders that drop down like oxygen masks in an airplane. A trap door will unlock and open and people can just climb down whenever they stop.
One of the big "time taking" issues for evac teams is that many people are VERY uncomfortable with exiting the cabin. So the teams are dealing with psych issues along with the pure mechanical aspects of evac.

Even those sizzor-type lifts that they plan to use in many places are pretty darn scary to a lot of people. Rope evac is way worse.

There are a lot of people who would not come down that rope ladder on their own.

best,

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Old 05-20-2019, 03:06 PM   #17
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Do the firefighters/first responders have a gripe....sure. But using the Gondolas as a scare tactic is just bad in my opinion.

Personally, I do not go through life fearing there are terrorists behind every bush or that my Disney/DVC resort is going to catch fire and burn. Disney resorts are not lacking in fire protection. Where I do see a need or a concern is that Disney will be adding three new towers on property in the next 2 years. They join three existing towers, for a total of six towers.

With the aging population, they will probably need to add more emt type of units too.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickeyfan0805 View Post
I don't disagree on the argument that this may be a negotiating tactic as much as anything. This is a union rep - they know how to spin the media!

That said, I've seen this comment about power being the only point of failure a number of times, and it makes no sense to me. Pulleys could fail...lines could become jammed...a tower could be hit by a bus and become structurally compromised...the list goes on and on.

I'm not an alarmist by any extreme, but the notion that power is the only reason there could be a long-term stalling of the system assumes perfect function of the structural system on a permanent basis. Is a full shut-down likely? Probably not. But, my guess is that, someday, it will happen. And, if it happens, I'd suggest it is more likely that it would happen for some structural, non-power-related, reason!
Good point about non-power issues. As to whether it will actually ever happen, Iím not so sure. There are lots of these systems around the world, and most disasters have very specific causes, often contact with things that shouldnít be there. These things are so close to the ground that it becomes less likely IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiltonJohn View Post
I spent a lot of my life being, among other things, a first responder on lift evac in the snowsports industry. Spent just a few hours inside the terminals of detach lifts...also riding in them. And evacing them. There are lots of things that can cause a situation where the haul rope (the cable that the cabins clamp onto) cannot be moved. That's when a full evac is typically called.

Power outages are typically covered by backup diesel engines or external electric generators. Easy-peasy........ but a "slow ride".

A full evac is complicated. And it takes a lot of evac teams. Even still.... it is still typically an hours-long process for the typical lift of about 1 mile length.

Add Florida heat and humidity and the potential of lightning storms... and I'm glad I'm not in a position of responsibility on that one.

best,

..................john
Very interesting. How often though do these non-power issues happen in a season?

To my (untrained) mind, ski lift systems are different in that evacuation is clearly more difficult at those heights and up the side of a mountain. The Disney one is not much higher than tree line height, flat with an access route all the way along itís length.

Not denying a full evacuation would be tricky but wondering in reality what the chances are.

And as Iíve said before, Iím fairly sure it wonít open until they have tested the evacuation procedures on each line. The boats and trucks have already been seen, but my guess is weíll see more, with Doppelmayr workers actually being evacuated at some point.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiltonJohn View Post
One of the big "time taking" issues for evac teams is that many people are VERY uncomfortable with exiting the cabin. So the teams are dealing with psych issues along with the pure mechanical aspects of evac.

Even those sizzor-type lifts that they plan to use in many places are pretty darn scary to a lot of people. Rope evac is way worse.

There are a lot of people who would not come down that rope ladder on their own.

best,

...............john
And jokes are not always understood.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:36 PM   #20
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Sounds like a union rep doing what union reps do...
As a (proud) union member, I thought the same thing when reading this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
I doubt the gondolas themselves are the cause of any concern. I suspect RCFD is using this opportunity to maximize publicity their perception of their need for more firefighters overall.
Dirk
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