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Old 07-18-2019, 08:59 PM   #91
brp
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Sure. Big Corporations never goof. Their employees are all infallible and never push up to or over legal boundaries.
.
Again, quite certain that this was intentional. No proof, but it smells that way. Clearly within the legal limits, but adding exposure.

Also, Disney are not the same as most other corporations. First of all, their use of data is pretty much best in the world. This is not the kind of thing they're likely to do by mistake.

But just my opinion.

Cheers.
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:55 PM   #92
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Sure. Big Corporations never goof. Their employees are all infallible and never push up to or over legal boundaries.

This is so simple to counter - Jim Lewis.
That's why I have no clue about the (il)legitimacy of chartpocalypse. It could be everything from a clueless person to something needed that we don't understand mathematically to a direct order to cook up points, fcuk the members.

DVC has a history of all three issues in various departments.

Isn't Jim Lewis, the one-time darling of Time Share World, a Wal-Mart greeter or something, now?

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Old 07-19-2019, 02:58 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by brp View Post
Again, quite certain that this was intentional. No proof, but it smells that way. Clearly within the legal limits, but adding exposure.

Also, Disney are not the same as most other corporations. First of all, their use of data is pretty much best in the world. This is not the kind of thing they're likely to do by mistake.

But just my opinion.

Cheers.
Their mis-use of data totally screwed up Aulani. People lost jobs, and Jim Lewis lost his reputation and career.

I'm not going to call Disney out on chartpocalypse because I'm out of my depths on the math and legal arguments, but I can believe Disney either goofing or intentionally doing something wrong.

Dirk
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:05 PM   #94
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Their mis-use of data totally screwed up Aulani. People lost jobs, and Jim Lewis lost his reputation and career.

I'm not going to call Disney out on chartpocalypse because I'm out of my depths on the math and legal arguments, but I can believe Disney either goofing or intentionally doing something wrong.

Dirk
I missed out on the Aulani backstory. Where do I find that, or can you recap here?
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:06 PM   #95
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Not admitting you make mistakes, is not the same as not actually making mistakes.
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:27 PM   #96
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I missed out on the Aulani backstory. Where do I find that, or can you recap here?
The Aulani Debacle

Is Disney Lost in Hawaii?

Early Aulani purchasers to receive 50 year reduction- per DVC news.

Jim Lewis fired?

Jim Lewis - Heading to Walmart

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Old 07-19-2019, 08:32 PM   #97
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Well, call it a second class if you want, but I choose not to partake of many clubs, and I don't feel that makes me 2nd class. This is Disney's club. If anyone wants to join it they can by doing the required entry, which happens to be buying some # of points direct from Disney. Their club. They can and should control the entry. My point is I don't think it's legit to say "I'm gonna sell some of my points to some other guy and therefore that guy is now a member of your club" -- having never paid (Disney) for such, nor having any contract between him and Disney. All he did was buy my points from me. I'm certainly not eligible to "sell" access to Disney's club... via selling my own points. I don't see why anyone would feel they have the right to do this.

Like... I'm not in my local country club. Say I know a guy who is. He bought his golf clubs from "his club" as part of becoming a member. I buy his clubs (aka points) from him. The club now has to accept me as a member? Because I bought something from someone who was, which was part of a deal he had to be in it? No. I just don't see that.

If you join the club -- great. If you sell your points -- great. But whoever buys your points should not become part of Disney's club because they paid Disney nothing.



They got their money for Person A joining their club. Person A also bought some points. Person A sold the points to Person B. B now owns the right to use those points. If B wishes to join the club too, B needs to go to Disney and join by paying the appropriate membership. A is not entitled to sell memberships in Disney's club to B. It's totally fair. Yes B has to pay the same MFs. Those MFs support the facility. The perks on the other hand are an incentive to encourage new direct sales.
You are forgetting something very important. Attached to deed is rights to the Club. It is specifically stated that a resale buyer has full Club rights upon recording of the deed. Itís part of the Resortís contract with the original buyer and adds huge value to the product. Without this, DVC is just another timeshare and very likely would not have been so popular. Maintaining a decent resale value has no doubt been a big factor in sales. Maybe not those initial sales, but for those who keep coming back and buying more, knowing that if they ever need to sell that they can recoup a good bit of their money is big. Without this, the resale market value would have tanked long ago, which hinders the number of new resorts and direct sale price. A strong resale market works hand in hand with a strong direct market and each props the other up.
Time will tell, but I think the latest restrictions are going to come back to bite them. Probably not so much with Riviera because of its size, location and being the only non-2042 in the neighborhood. (Though the first Riviera resale went for under $130pp, so itís not looking great). Reflections, IMO will be a whole different ball game. Resale value on Reflections will be low. This will absolutely hurt direct pricing and sales velocity at Reflections. Disney has hired a bunch of traditional time share people who do not understand what made DVC special. This will not hurt the value for the legacy resorts, if anything it improves it, but it will hurt DVC future projects.
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:44 PM   #98
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You are forgetting something very important. Attached to deed is rights to the Club. It is specifically stated that a resale buyer has full Club rights upon recording of the deed. Itís part of the Resortís contract with the original buyer and adds huge value to the product. Without this, DVC is just another timeshare and very likely would not have been so popular. Maintaining a decent resale value has no doubt been a big factor in sales. Maybe not those initial sales, but for those who keep coming back and buying more, knowing that if they ever need to sell that they can recoup a good bit of their money is big. Without this, the resale market value would have tanked long ago, which hinders the number of new resorts and direct sale price. A strong resale market works hand in hand with a strong direct market and each props the other up.
Time will tell, but I think the latest restrictions are going to come back to bite them. Probably not so much with Riviera because of its size, location and being the only non-2042 in the neighborhood. (Though the first Riviera resale went for under $130pp, so itís not looking great). Reflections, IMO will be a whole different ball game. Resale value on Reflections will be low. This will absolutely hurt direct pricing and sales velocity at Reflections. Disney has hired a bunch of traditional time share people who do not understand what made DVC special. This will not hurt the value for the legacy resorts, if anything it improves it, but it will hurt DVC future projects.
I think that since the Riviera contract went up for sale so quickly, it must have been a situation where the owner just needed out. It may be a little too early to know how future resales will be priced. That said, I agree that the restrictions may have a negative impact on the new resorts moving forward. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. And since we have our grandfathered points and perks, we can sit back and watch the show.
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:19 AM   #99
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Side Note: Dislike how ďWelcome HomeĒ is thrown out to all.
At the MM last night in AK, the kids handing out the Mickey Bars (inside, not sure what the building was) all parroted "Welcome Home", like Stepford wives, when you got your ice cream. It was creepy, tbh.

I'd love the non-expiring tickets to return, too. Seems punitive not to have kept those as an option.
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:19 PM   #100
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Again, quite certain that this was intentional. No proof, but it smells that way. Clearly within the legal limits, but adding exposure.

Also, Disney are not the same as most other corporations. First of all, their use of data is pretty much best in the world. This is not the kind of thing they're likely to do by mistake.

But just my opinion.

Cheers.
I tend to agree. This was thought out and intentional. If I am Disney, the mistake(s) made were:

1. Setting M&R fees too low. This they have been rectifying. All 2050-2060 resort lvels are now approaching the 2042s. Look at BLT for an illustration of this.

2. Setting point values too low. This one is harder to do than the M&R fees.
So, they tried to rectify this in one whack. Problem is, there are people in DVC that are good at math too and caught on.
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