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Old 08-31-2020, 10:17 AM   #1
carolina_yankee
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Default A Time to Buy, a Time to Sell

To every thing there is a season,
and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, a time to reap that which is planted;
and with apologies to The Seekers (and Ecclesiastes):
A time to buy, and a time to sell.
We've decided it's time to radically reshape our connections with Disney, and Walt Disney World specifically. I'm going to share what's happening and then why we made this decision.

I put our contracts out for sale in July with ResalesDVC. Just as Kristin said, SSR went fast and we signed an agreement within three days of posting the points. Copper Creek too longer - about six weeks. We had an offer that was quickly retracted because hubby overruled wife who was probably ambien surfing (and it was too low for us to accept, anyway) and then nothing for five weeks, until last week.

So, we will close on the SSR sale in late September, and CCV in late October. I'm not going to discuss numbers, but we are mostly putting money in the bank. CCV has a loan, so we will have to pay a bit on that, but not very much.
Ultimately, we will have had 32 DVC stays since purchasing DVC in 2006 for the cost of member fees plus $6,000. I'm not complaining.

I also want to say that DVC was exactly the right decision when we purchased in 2006 and for many years, it was the only reason we could experience Disney the way we have. We have loved every stay, and we treasure the Disney friends we have made along the way.

Why we decided to let go of DVC

Financial reasons were a factor, but not a big one. We could ride this out, and while I feel vulnerable in my position as a priest in a congregation during the time of COVID, the reality is my position is likely secure, or at least would have many, many months of warning and then severance so we could land on our feet. However, financially, we do feel more in charge and less encumbered by having made this decision, which is a very powerful positive in this time of pandemic.

So, what are the non-financial reasons? I'll define them is Pandemic, Stage of Life, and Disney (or WDW specifically). Let me start by saying we love Disney. We think DVC is awesome. We recognized that we have reached a point where this level of commitment (and commitment is the word) is no longer for us. We fully expect to keep going to Disney parks and to have DVC stays through renting points from friends and people we know and trust on MouseOwners.

Pandemic

I think Disney has done an amazing job with re-opening. However, given what Disney costs and the energy and emotional investment that goes into planning a DVC trip at WDW, I don't want to be held hostage to things outside our control: Shutdowns, Quarantines, Reduced Experiences.

Emotionally, this Pandemic has cost me tremendously (all First World problems because we are incredibly grateful we are healthy and have good jobs). We lost a once in a lifetime trip that, quite frankly, may not be possible for a couple of years now, and may never be possible. I can't control quarantines, and nobody knows how this virus is going to play out. I couldn't see spending the monthly costs we were spending while putting off trips, or worse, losing trips we were planning and counting on. I cannot emphasize enough how critical to my emotional health "getting away" is. Being locked into a very fragile vacation system right now is not for us.

Stage of Life

We love to travel. We really want to travel more. We are in a place that we can afford a major trip every year. Jim is 69 (healthy and active, but still 69!). That window will last only so long.

Even before the Pandemic, I found myself trying to figure out how to schedule in some dream trips with DVC usage and WDW's 50th. I really felt silly saying, "Well, we can't take this awesome road trip through Germany next year or do our Transatlantic Cruise with time in Spain and Portugal because we have to use our points by x date and it's WDW's 50th."

And we always want to try Hawaii, and Aulani is not the way to do that. We have reasons to get to California annually and getting into VGC just isn't possible.

So, DVC was becoming a buzz-kill on the planning front. Quite frankly, we actually had too many points (Did I just say that?!!!). I suppose we could have just sold CCV and kept SSR for reduced biannual or triennial trips (the 1 BR bug bit). However, we wanted the SSR money to clear the CCV mortgage, and that still leaves us a *huge chunk of change* for a major getaway once the Pandemic is over (or to throw into our retirement house downpayment savings plan). And, we wanted to be free.

I have to say, our week getaway to Philly in an AirBnB was very nice (and very cheap). We want to hang with friends in Hilton Head and Savannah. Our 25th anniversary trip to NYC was delightful, culturally stimulating, and a fraction of the cost of a Disney trip. We don't need DVC in order to have amazing trips, and that has really hit home to us as we think about what else we want to do.

Disney Reasons

We've also become less enchanted with WDW overall, and during the pandemic especially. I've posted elsewhere that I think Epcot has lost its soul, and I do believe that. Yeah, we like it, but it becomes surprisingly stale to us pretty quickly every trip without a festival or upcharge experience of some kind. I was optimistic that its remake would at least be fresh and interesting, but the reality is the pandemic has killed that. Epcot is going to be a "WTF kinda park is this?" to us for most of the decade, I suspect.

We love AK. I mean, really love AK. DHS is "meh." It has fun stuff but feels like it's also lost its vision. MK is always great, but I have to be honest. Disneyland is always superior to MK, IMO. Individual attractions at MK are better, but we still feel Disney magic at DL.

There is nothing like WDW in the world and we look forward to going back, and going back many times in the future, but we'll be happy renting points, staying at CS or the Port Orleans Resorts, or, our fave, Jambo House as a hotel guest or DVC renter.

In the meantime, we will have time and resources to figure out how to take my dream trip Norway (preferably as a fjord cruise), get back to England for an extended stay, try Japan (and Tokyo Disneyland!!), hit a few places in Europe, get to Hawaii, take another cross-country road trip, hit up Disneyland at least for its 70th and hopefully more, and take cruises. Once they resume, we're all in. DCL is still very magical and very Disney for us.

As for MouseOwners, this is my Disney outlet. It's the only board I've encountered that has mostly sane, mostly nice, and mostly realistic people. The exceptions are the stalker, one or two psychos, and the person who was determined to financially ruin me because I deleted his post in violation of the First Amendment. We have made some firm friendships that I look forward to keeping. I'm still around, and happy to administer as long as Kim lets me.

So, that's where we are. I would say that seeds of this decision were lurking the background for about a year, but the Pandemic caused them sprout like kudzu, and thus we've made our decision. We really do grieve the end of an era, but it's not the end of Disney and we are far more excited about the opportunities the future brings, both for new ways to experience Disney and new things to do elsewhere.

Dirk
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:26 AM   #2
brp
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Very well-reasoned (as usual) and everything you said made complete sense. Certainly sorry to see you leave the "family," but it makes complete sense.

You will stay here, though, yes?

Cheers.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:26 AM   #3
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I get it. I really do! I am can relate with other items I have let go that really made an impact on me

Is it too soon to joke about dibs on good contracts?
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:30 AM   #4
carolina_yankee
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Originally Posted by brp View Post
Very well-reasoned (as usual) and everything you said made complete sense. Certainly sorry to see you leave the "family," but it makes complete sense.

You will stay here, though, yes?

Cheers.
Yes! There is something odd about the sense of "membership." It really did take me a couple of weeks and lots of conversations with Jim to realize that selling DVC =/ leaving Disney.

MO Community will just have to be enough of a sense of belonging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helenabear View Post
I get it. I really do! I am can relate with other items I have let go that really made an impact on me

Is it too soon to joke about dibs on good contracts?
That's why I waited to share the news - I wanted to make sure our contracts were "under contract" so people wouldn't reach out to me.

Dirk
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:37 AM   #5
pooh bears mom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
To every thing there is a season,
and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, a time to reap that which is planted;
and with apologies to The Seekers (and Ecclesiastes):
A time to buy, and a time to sell.
We've decided it's time to radically reshape our connections with Disney, and Walt Disney World specifically. I'm going to share what's happening and then why we made this decision.

I put our contracts out for sale in July with ResalesDVC. Just as Kristin said, SSR went fast and we signed an agreement within three days of posting the points. Copper Creek too longer - about six weeks. We had an offer that was quickly retracted because hubby overruled wife who was probably ambien surfing (and it was too low for us to accept, anyway) and then nothing for five weeks, until last week.

So, we will close on the SSR sale in late September, and CCV in late October. I'm not going to discuss numbers, but we are mostly putting money in the bank. CCV has a loan, so we will have to pay a bit on that, but not very much.
Ultimately, we will have had 32 DVC stays since purchasing DVC in 2006 for the cost of member fees plus $6,000. I'm not complaining.

I also want to say that DVC was exactly the right decision when we purchased in 2006 and for many years, it was the only reason we could experience Disney the way we have. We have loved every stay, and we treasure the Disney friends we have made along the way.

Why we decided to let go of DVC

Financial reasons were a factor, but not a big one. We could ride this out, and while I feel vulnerable in my position as a priest in a congregation during the time of COVID, the reality is my position is likely secure, or at least would have many, many months of warning and then severance so we could land on our feet. However, financially, we do feel more in charge and less encumbered by having made this decision, which is a very powerful positive in this time of pandemic.

So, what are the non-financial reasons? I'll define them is Pandemic, Stage of Life, and Disney (or WDW specifically). Let me start by saying we love Disney. We think DVC is awesome. We recognized that we have reached a point where this level of commitment (and commitment is the word) is no longer for us. We fully expect to keep going to Disney parks and to have DVC stays through renting points from friends and people we know and trust on MouseOwners.

Pandemic

I think Disney has done an amazing job with re-opening. However, given what Disney costs and the energy and emotional investment that goes into planning a DVC trip at WDW, I don't want to be held hostage to things outside our control: Shutdowns, Quarantines, Reduced Experiences.

Emotionally, this Pandemic has cost me tremendously (all First World problems because we are incredibly grateful we are healthy and have good jobs). We lost a once in a lifetime trip that, quite frankly, may not be possible for a couple of years now, and may never be possible. I can't control quarantines, and nobody knows how this virus is going to play out. I couldn't see spending the monthly costs we were spending while putting off trips, or worse, losing trips we were planning and counting on. I cannot emphasize enough how critical to my emotional health "getting away" is. Being locked into a very fragile vacation system right now is not for us.

Stage of Life

We love to travel. We really want to travel more. We are in a place that we can afford a major trip every year. Jim is 69 (healthy and active, but still 69!). That window will last only so long.

Even before the Pandemic, I found myself trying to figure out how to schedule in some dream trips with DVC usage and WDW's 50th. I really felt silly saying, "Well, we can't take this awesome road trip through Germany next year or do our Transatlantic Cruise with time in Spain and Portugal because we have to use our points by x date and it's WDW's 50th."

And we always want to try Hawaii, and Aulani is not the way to do that. We have reasons to get to California annually and getting into VGC just isn't possible.

So, DVC was becoming a buzz-kill on the planning front. Quite frankly, we actually had too many points (Did I just say that?!!!). I suppose we could have just sold CCV and kept SSR for reduced biannual or triennial trips (the 1 BR bug bit). However, we wanted the SSR money to clear the CCV mortgage, and that still leaves us a *huge chunk of change* for a major getaway once the Pandemic is over (or to throw into our retirement house downpayment savings plan). And, we wanted to be free.

I have to say, our week getaway to Philly in an AirBnB was very nice (and very cheap). We want to hang with friends in Hilton Head and Savannah. Our 25th anniversary trip to NYC was delightful, culturally stimulating, and a fraction of the cost of a Disney trip. We don't need DVC in order to have amazing trips, and that has really hit home to us as we think about what else we want to do.

Disney Reasons

We've also become less enchanted with WDW overall, and during the pandemic especially. I've posted elsewhere that I think Epcot has lost its soul, and I do believe that. Yeah, we like it, but it becomes surprisingly stale to us pretty quickly every trip without a festival or upcharge experience of some kind. I was optimistic that its remake would at least be fresh and interesting, but the reality is the pandemic has killed that. Epcot is going to be a "WTF kinda park is this?" to us for most of the decade, I suspect.

We love AK. I mean, really love AK. DHS is "meh." It has fun stuff but feels like it's also lost its vision. MK is always great, but I have to be honest. Disneyland is always superior to MK, IMO. Individual attractions at MK are better, but we still feel Disney magic at DL.

There is nothing like WDW in the world and we look forward to going back, and going back many times in the future, but we'll be happy renting points, staying at CS or the Port Orleans Resorts, or, our fave, Jambo House as a hotel guest or DVC renter.

In the meantime, we will have time and resources to figure out how to take my dream trip Norway (preferably as a fjord cruise), get back to England for an extended stay, try Japan (and Tokyo Disneyland!!), hit a few places in Europe, get to Hawaii, take another cross-country road trip, hit up Disneyland at least for its 70th and hopefully more, and take cruises. Once they resume, we're all in. DCL is still very magical and very Disney for us.

As for MouseOwners, this is my Disney outlet. It's the only board I've encountered that has mostly sane, mostly nice, and mostly realistic people. We have made some firm friendship that I look forward to keeping. I'm still around, and happy to administer as long as Kim lets me.

So, that's where we are. I would say that seeds of this decision were lurking the background for about a year, but the Pandemic caused them sprout like kudzu, and thus we've made our decision. We really do grieve the end of an era, but it's not the end of Disney and we are far more excited about the opportunities the future brings, both for new ways to experience Disney and new things to do elsewhere.

Dirk
It looks like you have really thought this out and made the best decision. I was on the fence of selling a couple contracts -CCV because I have a loan on it-but ultimately the kids want it so we are committed for the long term. For us, not going this summer made my kids realize they miss it more.
I completely agree with your assessment on the parks - We have zero interest in HS, but love AK. But we still love the world showcase in Epcot as that is about all we go into Epcot for.
Congratulations and it sounds like you thought through and made the best decision for you and Jim. Although...are you sure you want to get rid of SSR? you could always rent out those points...just saying
But in all seriousness it does look like you have really thought this through. I think this pandemic will cause many to reevaluate DVC. If my kids were not totally vested, we would probably sell some points but we are staying put with what we have for the time being. You and Jim can fill us in on your non-disney travels now Also if you use Priceline, you can find some great deals at AK -we booked jumbo last year for 238 per night
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:47 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by pooh bears mom View Post
It looks like you have really thought this out and made the best decision. I was on the fence of selling a couple contracts -CCV because I have a loan on it-but ultimately the kids want it so we are committed for the long term. For us, not going this summer made my kids realize they miss it more.
I completely agree with your assessment on the parks - We have zero interest in HS, but love AK. But we still love the world showcase in Epcot as that is about all we go into Epcot for.
Congratulations and it sounds like you thought through and made the best decision for you and Jim. Although...are you sure you want to get rid of SSR? you could always rent out those points...just saying
But in all seriousness it does look like you have really thought this through. I think this pandemic will cause many to reevaluate DVC. If my kids were not totally vested, we would probably sell some points but we are staying put with what we have for the time being. You and Jim can fill us in on your non-disney travels now Also if you use Priceline, you can find some great deals at AK -we booked jumbo last year for 238 per night
Having kids or extended family would likely have dramatically changed our calculus. We figure that if things change down the road, we can always buy a Legacy 14 resale contract (SSR, OKW, or even HHI since we would stay there) as their expiration dates suit us and they will likely only get cheaper as that date nears.

I thought about renting, but the pandemic definitely put the the kibosh on that. I don't want to be in a position of holding a reservation for somebody that, morally, I really should refund if things don't work out.

Dirk
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:50 AM   #7
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Dirk, we have had the exact same revelations and also listed our HHI and CCV contracts after already selling the OKW last year. We sold all 3 HHI contracts and decided to keep the CCV. We went from 650 to 325 points. All for the same reasons as you mentioned. We became disenchanted with Disney/DVC a bit over recent years. And we felt tied to booking DVC trips to use those points that cost so much (buy in PLUS skyrocketing annual dues). DH would want to book this other trip and that other trip and I'd feel pangs of guilt spending more money to do those instead of just using DVC points and annual passes already paid for. So he was grumpy to not do the trips he wanted and then I was grumpy at WDW having the not so magical trips. Then Covid hit and the realization of not being committed to something was probably the way to go. Had 3 DVC trips cancelled and 3 cruises. Told the hubs that we should now just plan on short notice. Tired of all the time spent cancelling, rebooking, seeking refunds...etc. Best to wait and plan like 2-3 months out. Plus...the money we got from selling came in handy as we are finishing paying 2 college tuitions and, with our recent move, we upgraded homes and have a heftier mortgage.

I was surprised to see this thread and that you sold. But I get the decision. Congrats on selling. Don't stress the ROFR and closing process as it is taking way longer than it used to. Instead of 6 weeks to close (from day sent to ROFR) it is like 8-9 now.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:52 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
That's why I waited to share the news - I wanted to make sure our contracts were "under contract" so people wouldn't reach out to me.

Dirk
I do hope everything does go smoothly with the closing process though. I just couldn't resist saying it.

I do want to seriously comment on the lost trip. My friend is feeling the same about the inability to travel with an aging loved one. There are so many missed memories I think out there. I hope you will be able to go though.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:56 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Lamima View Post
Dirk, we have had the exact same revelations and also listed our HHI and CCV contracts after already selling the OKW last year. We sold all 3 HHI contracts and decided to keep the CCV. We went from 650 to 325 points. All for the same reasons as you mentioned. We became disenchanted with Disney/DVC a bit over recent years. And we felt tied to booking DVC trips to use those points that cost so much (buy in PLUS skyrocketing annual dues). DH would want to book this other trip and that other trip and I'd feel pangs of guilt spending more money to do those instead of just using DVC points and annual passes already paid for. So he was grumpy to not do the trips he wanted and then I was grumpy at WDW having the not so magical trips we used to have back in the day. Then Covid hit and the realization of not being committed to something was probably the way to go. Had 3 DVC trips cancelled and 3 cruises. Told the hubs that we should now just plan on short notice. Tired of all the time spent cancelling, rebooking, seeking refunds...etc. Best to wait and plan like 2-3 months out. Plus...the money we got from selling came in handy as we are finishing paying 2 college tuitions and, with our recent move, we upgraded homes and have a heftier mortgage.

I was surprised to see this thread and that you sold. But I get the decision. Congrats on selling. Don't stress the ROFR and closing process as it is taking way longer than it used to. Instead of 6 weeks to close (from day sent to ROFR) it is like 8-9 now.
That's hard when you and your spouse are on different vacation goals, and then when Disney lets you down. Oof.

There is certainly an element of taking back control that I'm looking forward to. I would say that from 2006 until 2011 (when the Great Recession was finally past), a Disney trip was pretty easy to plan for us - Four months out, no problem! Then, watching that disappear, we adjusted, but it started to feel ridiculous. Then, planning non Disney trips on short notice and with little effort, well, there you have it.

The other reality is that what kept Disney fresh for us was upcharges. Uhm, we're already paying enough, aren't we?!! The final kicker was taking a couple of DCL cruises that were totally disconnected from a park stay and I realized we could have a satisfying Disney experience outside of the parks. Bingo. Time to re-evaluate.

Dirk
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:59 AM   #10
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I do hope everything does go smoothly with the closing process though. I just couldn't resist saying it.

I do want to seriously comment on the lost trip. My friend is feeling the same about the inability to travel with an aging loved one. There are so many missed memories I think out there. I hope you will be able to go though.
Thanks. I almost posted a Trip Report That Wasn't of our week in England and Norwegian cruise that we lost! We'll get back, but it will depend on how cruises go. We could do a Norway land trip, but that may be more expensive than I want, even if it gives us a bit more flexibility.

There are places I'm interested in going, and there are places that are soul-stirring. South Africa, the British Isles, and Norway are soul-stirring to me. I've been to England, Scotland, and South Africa, now it's Norway's turn - and I'm Norwegian descent so that's really important!

Dirk
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