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Old 09-10-2019, 12:52 PM   #21
pdude81
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Both kind of set the floor, right? By scooping up any low resale sales through ROFR they frustrate the people willing to play the long(er) game to save money. Then they either pay more for a different contract to get through ROFR, buy direct to avoid the headache, or throw their hands up and walk away.

I think they scare some people off buying resale, but the prices never seem to drop without a larger economic event.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:39 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Boundin' View Post
The person who would buy resale then buy 75 points to get "perks" will now have to buy 100 get said perks. Now, he may buy less resale, or not buy resale at all. So it doesn't necessarily make our grandfathered points worth any more.

And when I say "he", I mean, he, she, they, or it.
Or might buy only resale and completely skip direct.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:46 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by carolina_yankee View Post
Thanks for the heads up. What the minimum direct purchase now? I'm assuming 25 points for someone who purchased resale, but what about a total DVC newbie? Is it 100?

Personally, I'm less concerned about who gets benefits than about the increase in small point contracts and they pressure they put on studios.

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It seems to float a bit depending on the guide. Word is it'll be 100 for Riviera and I believe CCV to a DVC newbie. And 50 point minimum add on at either of those places for existing owners so that 25 points is out the window at those resorts.

It's been a lower minimum for OKW and SSR - I believe 50 pts.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:55 PM   #24
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No you have made my point in your scenario above with DVC scooping up points at low prices. Every restriction they put in place devalues resale points. The only thing that buoys resale prices now is their incessant direct price increases. If your point is that DVC helps resale prices by raising direct prices, I agree. But they don't need to add restrictions to do that.
Not sure where you are coming from. These actions will not devalue resale points past the point whereby DVC kills or completely controls the outside resale market - which is what these new restrictions will do. Market Value is Market Value. Many companies buy back their own stock when they want to keep their valuation from declining or to boost their valuation - no matter what the buy back price is or from whom they buy. Every company wants to buy back their own shares at a bargain and immediately receive the higher value per share when they own and control the new sales price of those shares. Many companies will buy back their own shares when there is nothing more advantageous to purchase or they are about to rip ahead and believe that their own company is the trend setter. This is usual. This is what is happening now with DVC. Whatever you get for your shares / contract points when you sell on the outside resale market is inconsequential to the larger market...especially when Disney is the largest share holder and can set the ongoing price once they buy back your shares at a bargain or reduce your advantage to selling those shares on the outside market. DVC has a nice ROFR advantage and can keep issuing restrictions that tighten the outside resell market, and they'll keep doing this to protect and boost valuation - which is comprised of our current shares /contracts / points. Eventually, the outside resell market is soon going to be choked off or controlled completely by DVC. I'm not sure how this relates to our current points decreasing in valuation. The bargain resell market is coming to an end.

Last edited by zafiro; 09-10-2019 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Boundin' View Post
No you have made my point in your scenario above with DVC scooping up points at low prices. Every restriction they put in place devalues resale points. The only thing that buoys resale prices now is their incessant direct price increases. If your point is that DVC helps resale prices by raising direct prices, I agree. But they don't need to add restrictions to do that.
Only lower hotel room prices devalue resale points.

DVC works hard on the fluff to try and make people forget that.
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:19 PM   #26
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Only lower hotel room prices devalue resale points.

DVC works hard on the fluff to try and make people forget that.
EXACTLY! Or some other competitor that creates an equal but better place for people to stay and play...but that's not likely in the foreseeable future!
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:42 PM   #27
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So every move that Disney makes to make resale less attractive makes resale points more valuable. Wow, thanks Disney! Maybe a transfer fee, equal to say, three years of MFs- that will make our points skyrocket!
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:47 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Boundin' View Post
So every move that Disney makes to make resale less attractive makes resale points more valuable. Wow, thanks Disney! Maybe a transfer fee, equal to say, three years of MFs- that will make our points skyrocket!
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:50 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Goofygrl View Post
Only lower hotel room prices devalue resale points.

DVC works hard on the fluff to try and make people forget that.
I agree that this is a major factor - but that's because it is a major factor in the DVC market to begin with. The higher the cost of the average hotel room, the more attractive DVC is all around (as noted earlier).

That said, I think one would have to acknowledge that any substantive differentiation between direct and resale points would impact their respective markets. When we bought in, there was no difference between resale and direct. This meant that the only reason to buy direct would be if you couldn't get what you wanted on resale, or the number of points was small enough to make it not with the headaches that come with buying resale (or you didn't know resale was an option).

Over the past 5-10 years, that differentiation has increased substantially as Disney has instituted restrictions, and the reality is that Disney wouldn't be adding these restrictions if they didn't believe it was driving customers to direct purchases over resale - which speaks to the point. If you are driving people to direct purchases instead of resale, you are impacting the market (and, in turn, the price).

How much? We'll never know. But Disney is doing this for the purpose of impacting the market in favor of direct purchases, and that will, over time, impact prices of resales.
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:08 PM   #30
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I agree that this is a major factor - but that's because it is a major factor in the DVC market to begin with. The higher the cost of the average hotel room, the more attractive DVC is all around (as noted earlier).

That said, I think one would have to acknowledge that any substantive differentiation between direct and resale points would impact their respective markets. When we bought in, there was no difference between resale and direct. This meant that the only reason to buy direct would be if you couldn't get what you wanted on resale, or the number of points was small enough to make it not with the headaches that come with buying resale (or you didn't know resale was an option).

Over the past 5-10 years, that differentiation has increased substantially as Disney has instituted restrictions, and the reality is that Disney wouldn't be adding these restrictions if they didn't believe it was driving customers to direct purchases over resale - which speaks to the point. If you are driving people to direct purchases instead of resale, you are impacting the market (and, in turn, the price).

How much? We'll never know. But Disney is doing this for the purpose of impacting the market in favor of direct purchases, and that will, over time, impact prices of resales.
OR - DVC knows they can't hit at the real value of DVC ownership - room price so they add the restrictions for all the extras - which are extras and could all be dropped in another announcement - and try to detract attention from the real value of DVC. It's not that they know it will drive buyers to direct but they HOPE it will.

I've always though they'd do better by having some sort of tiered benefits added. The happy Disney brand would do better with a positive spin vs negative which is what removing benefits gives a perception of. And it was the direction they first said they were going towards - even so far as in the annual meetings saying it was coming soon. Then they got all negative instead.
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