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Old 02-12-2019, 09:26 PM   #91
brp
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Originally Posted by fuzzylogic View Post
It was suggested that in some areas, $120k wasn't even a decent living. I responded that it's a great living and in that range can have savings building, a nice house they're owning (which could be worth $750k which is what you picked up to go on the tangent about the $750k), and more discretionary cash for things like timeshares.
No, in some areas, like the one we live in, it is simply not a great living. And this is not just specific neighborhoods (although some are worse than others), but the entire area. $120K is marginal. Where we live $120K gross (never mind net of taxes and such) is likely not enough to pay the mortgage and property tax. Again, this is extreme, but other parts of the area are not far behind.

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Old 02-12-2019, 09:32 PM   #92
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As HenryCpa and others have pointed out, 120K can be a great living, but depending on where you live, not necessarily as great as you think. Yes, many of us in our 40's DO have student loans, just not our own. We now have college age students. When you reach that income bracket, financial aid is non existent. One school that used a sliding scale determined that our family contribution was 45k per year. Um, not even close. My son chose a state school. Still, he qualified for zero financial aid. We are paying a significant monthly loan payment on college loans--just not our own. Where we live, fuel costs can be expensive. Our oil bill last month was $500. We cannot get internet where we live, therefore, expensive verizon every month. Until Tricare kicks in, our health insurance premiums are 6k per year. Last year, with health insurance premiums and out of pocket medical expenses, we paid 10k in medical costs. One of my relatives that makes far less than we do, pays far far less in insurance premiums. When she had her gall bladder out last year, she paid zilch out of pocket expenses. Nada. Nothing. In NH, we do not have income tax, but we have high property taxes and so on and so on. 120K in the little state of NH (for a family of 4) are not living high on the hog.
OMG ....I won't be complaining any more about what I make .
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:00 PM   #93
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I think the question should be more about is home ownership still affordable. I don’t think anyone would recommend purchasing a fancy new car without a garage to park in, a dvc 30k investment if you don’t even own a home yet... granted in some areas of the country home ownership is still a relatively easy purchase on 120k but let’s say you recently graduated from college and got a job in Seattle. Your wages are 120k (higher than the 100k average) and your rent is (the average) of $2700 for your apartment. You decide to purchase outside Seattle because you don’t have millions. A bare bones starter in shoreline. I looked up the least expensive place to own within a half hour to hour drive to work and came up with this beauty. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...96669031_zpid/ It’s a trailer and it’s $385k��. It’s supposedly livable though. Idk many people who would actually live in it but that’s what some areas of the country are facing. So a person puts down 20% or 75 k and has a house pmt of around 2k. With taxes and insurance let’s make it 3k. Since idk anyone who would be happy to live in a dump of a trailer most would save a few extra years to try and get something that has a foundation and isn’t falling down. The issue is that house prices are rising faster than wages so forget dvc and a trip to wdw every year for the next 50 years. A one off trip or a trip your parents are paying for - sure. But 50 years of annual trips when you can’t even afford decent housing is likely off the table for much of America. Those payment calculators on dvc website might attract a few buyers but anyone financing a direct membership for the next 10 years would be better off just paying cash. Even the dvc website has a disclaimer about how financing affects savings. I definitely think Disney will remain popular and the parks will remain full but selling timeshares to a younger generation who has to fork over a considerable amount more $ to purchase a home is likely an issue.

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Old 02-13-2019, 07:03 AM   #94
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Its certainly getting harder for lower incomes to afford. That said, I have seen so many families make a lot of sacrifices to make their WDW trips happen. I have also seen many a family taken on too much credit card debit to make it happen.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:16 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by brp View Post
No, in some areas, like the one we live in, it is simply not a great living. And this is not just specific neighborhoods (although some are worse than others), but the entire area. $120K is marginal. Where we live $120K gross (never mind net of taxes and such) is likely not enough to pay the mortgage and property tax. Again, this is extreme, but other parts of the area are not far behind.
Well your avatar says Bay Area. One can live there on much less than $120k. Think of it this way. You have the discretionary funds to choose to live in the most expensive parts of the country. A family earning less wouldn't even have those options. So if you put yourself in a neighborhood of people making as much as you, your income might not feel like you're ahead of your neighbor but you are still ahead of 90% of the country. People can lose sight of that on expensive blocks.

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Yes, many of us in our 40's DO have student loans, just not our own. We now have college age students. When you reach that income bracket, financial aid is non existent.
Of course financial aid is nonexistent. It's for people who need it. You are successful enough to not need it. You have extra expenses because you make more but would you ever trade it to go back to making half? I guess I don't complain about where I'm at when I know I'm ahead of plenty. Not 90%, but getting there.

Would you go into a room of people who qualify for financial aid and complain to them about how awful it is to make what you do since you don't qualify? If you really wanted financial aid, one of you could leave your job or go down to making $50k. You'd get financial aid! Of course that's absurd earning $120k and not getting financial aid puts you so far ahead of those who are earning less but qualify.

Who would even aid you when 90% of the country makes less than you?

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Old 02-13-2019, 12:56 PM   #96
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Well your avatar says Bay Area. One can live there on much less than $120k. Think of it this way. You have the discretionary funds to choose to live in the most expensive parts of the country. A family earning less wouldn't even have those options. So if you put yourself in a neighborhood of people making as much as you, your income might not feel like you're ahead of your neighbor but you are still ahead of 90% of the country. People can lose sight of that on expensive blocks.



Of course financial aid is nonexistent. It's for people who need it. You are successful enough to not need it. You have extra expenses because you make more but would you ever trade it to go back to making half? I guess I don't complain about where I'm at when I know I'm ahead of plenty. Not 90%, but getting there.

Would you go into a room of people who qualify for financial aid and complain to them about how awful it is to make what you do since you don't qualify? If you really wanted financial aid, one of you could leave your job or go down to making $50k. You'd get financial aid! Of course that's absurd earning $120k and not getting financial aid puts you so far ahead of those who are earning less but qualify.

Who would even aid you when 90% of the country makes less than you?

I think you are missing the point entirely. You made a statement in a previous post, that living on 120k a year, one is living a very good standard of living, even if one is living in CA. Myself, and others were merely pointing out, that depending on circumstances and where one lives, 120k may not be as great as you think. I am not complaining, whining or bitching about the fact we do not qualify for financial aid.

Now, as for you question if we would choose to make half of what we did now, would we? The answer is, it depends. In 2000, we made exactly half of what we do now and truthfully, we lived just as well. So, maybe I would.

In a few minutes, I will be driving to work in my 9 year old, fully paid off Chevy Tahoe with 200,000 miles on it. I will call work on my Samsung Note 4 to let them know I am on my way and I will leave my husband in our completely unfinished home with our 13 year old son so husband can plow out our driveway with the 1965 tractor that he bought with the money from his 2nd job. All the while, I will be thanking my lucky stars that we are living the high life.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:14 PM   #97
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It is great even in CA. It gives you the CHOICE to live where you do. $60k or $80k earners ~couldn't even buy where you live~. See the difference in discretionary funds? You have the option to live in areas that others don't. If it's the Bay Area, you could move out to Gilroy or Tracy and do the commute. But, if you want to be in Willow Glen or Cupertino then you'll pay for it. You can pay for it, whereas someone earning $60k couldn't. You're putting the cart before the horse to say you're burdened with an expensive home therefore $120k isn't great.

Obviously your "I'd take half income if I could go back 20 years" is just word games. Would you do that, today, in a real-world scenario?

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Old 02-13-2019, 01:31 PM   #98
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to reference the thread title, I see this as a descriptive of a middle class family who visits WDW once in a while on a pay to stay option not DVC membership or home ownership vs rental option, IMHO.
I used to be that person 20+ years ago with a visit every 5 years with a family of 5. As we are empty nesters with a bit more disposable income (of course some cost outpaced vacation budget - such as medical insurance, co-pays and % coverage).
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:52 PM   #99
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Add in dues... $300/mo. I can afford that. Sold.

They're very good at this.
Yes they are - but this is far from a gimmick that's limited to timeshares. This is the core of the auto industry as well! I have walked out of dealerships because they refused to talk to me about gross numbers and insisted on focusing on monthly payments.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:45 AM   #100
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Yes they are - but this is far from a gimmick that's limited to timeshares. This is the core of the auto industry as well! I have walked out of dealerships because they refused to talk to me about gross numbers and insisted on focusing on monthly payments.
Maaan, I'm such a sucker for ALL of these trips!

The only thing that saves me is that I tend to have a ton of research and spreadsheets when I do anything. That usually means I go in knowing what I want and how much I'm paying, so all of the tricks w/numbers don't get me too badly.
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