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Old 09-12-2018, 01:04 PM   #11
Doberge
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Agreed to only do what youre comfortable doing.

I am on the other side as a renter and prefer a contract, but a contract is only as good as its enforceability and that needs, to me, exchanging addresses. If there's a contract and I can't find you it'a going to make collecting damages very difficult.

Owners ideally would not need a contract at all, but if a contract is requested I think it's fair to request that the potential renter share more information before sharing your own. I'd be comfortable with an owner vetting me before sharing his/her own information and either other renters *should* be as comfortable or they themselves should only work with brokers.

ETA: I'm obviously very new and I do have an ad out seeking points, so I totally understand aversion to MOs with low post counts, we probably do require more "vetting" than the "vets"
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:25 PM   #12
Commish
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I do not find renting difficult and have had very pleasant experience meeting new people.

I would suggest a Redweek Verified Reservation $45 - you will not get paid until the trip begins - but both renter/owner have some additional protections -
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:36 PM   #13
Shewill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberge View Post
Agreed to only do what youre comfortable doing.

I am on the other side as a renter and prefer a contract, but a contract is only as good as its enforceability and that needs, to me, exchanging addresses. If there's a contract and I can't find you it'a going to make collecting damages very difficult.

Owners ideally would not need a contract at all, but if a contract is requested I think it's fair to request that the potential renter share more information before sharing your own. I'd be comfortable with an owner vetting me before sharing his/her own information and either other renters *should* be as comfortable or they themselves should only work with brokers.

ETA: I'm obviously very new and I do have an ad out seeking points, so I totally understand aversion to MOs with low post counts, we probably do require more "vetting" than the "vets"

I have been renting from owners for years and consider contracts and references useless.

My renting rules are simple. Both parties understand that 100% payment is required within 48 hours of booking . Cancelation is not possible . Reservation will be placed in renters MDE account and not canceled . It is really as simple as that . If you deal with an experienced owners or renter active in mouseowners it really is that simple.

Some owners have more generous terms but I am comfortable with total payment upon booking. But I do like to see the reservation in my name in my MDE account before payment . Most owners if they know and trust the renters are fine with that .

It is important for both parties to trust each other . Dealing with mouseowners with high post counts is your best protection. If you can not find an owner who rents or a renter you trust completely use a broker .

Last edited by Shewill; 09-12-2018 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:38 PM   #14
scottalex
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Disclaimers:
1. While I am in IT, I'm not an IT Sec specialist.
2. Methods discussed below are not full proof, but simply additional "diligence" methods that two parties might decide to partake in in order to help build trust.
3. This is not a comprehensive list, this is just off top of my head as I see lot of caution for exercising judgement but not a ton of discussion on techniques for doing so.
4. No single verification method is sufficient for validation. Rather rely on multiple, unrelated, methods to build up the probability that you're speaking with a genuine person with good intent.

So first a bit of perhaps unsettling but oddly reassuring news. Between Equifax, Chase, Target, Yahoo, and many many other breaches most of your personal information is probably already out there for unscrupulous individuals to purchase/leverage nefariously. So you're probably not going to screw up too much more than someone else already has on your behalf .

Second, leverage your concern to review your own security practices. Don't re-use passwords, pay the $25 a year or so for something like lastpass that makes good password management easier. Use two factor every where you can. I particularly like yubikey as it eliminates the need for pulling out phone to launch an authenticator app or retrieve SMS code...

Alright so things you can do.

1. Leverage people's MO identity. Like Barb and others mention they've spent years building up post counts, referrals, etc... Their offerings should be viewed with greater validity then someone like me with 3 posts. Then again years from now if I ever set out to rent points and post it on boards. Look at my activity and ask yourself was my post back from years ago on the ROFR board just a setup so I could gain your confidence to scam you three years later... Maybe...but most scammers don't tend to put in that kind of effort.

2. Talk on the phone. Not only can that give you a feel for how genuine they are, but then you can then ask said MO to confirm your conversation "out of band" (via MO direct message or post). That suggests either a scammer has compromised this mouse owners identity and provided you their fake phone number OR the person you talked to one the phone does indeed control the MO account with all the great feedback/post counts.

3. Leverage municipal property records for bare minimum validation that at least the person you're speaking with or who they're pretending to be is indeed on record as being a DVC owner.

4. If wanting to protect personal phone number, try something like google voice. It lets you use a phone number in front of your real phone number. Be very upfront about this though as my advice to other parties would be to suspect a seller that does so without disclosing upfront. You can look up the phone number via various websites to see if it looks more like something assigned to individual or a voice service like google. Further, as a buyer look up the area code of the number and ask the seller some question about the area. Maybe something you just look up from google maps, "I see your MO location and phone area code are Baltimore. So the Cowboys are your favorite team?" A response of, "Oh yes definitely" might be from a scammer whereas "Uh we're ravens fans", or "sorry I don't do the sports" more likely from a real MO. "Which mall in town do you like most"...Little things that should be easy for a real person, catch a scammer off guard.


5. IP lookups. Like phone number, this is another form of basic geo-location verification. A site like grabify lets you generate a link to get the visitors IP. So you could discuss this method with the other party and have them click it. That will provide you with their IP address which you can then look up. Is it an ISP in the location that matches the phone, MO profile? Is the ISP a VPN provider? VPNs have a number of legit uses (see frustration with PI from breaches above) but they also have a number of illicit uses. If ISP comes back as a known VPN provider, perhaps ask them to click again after disconnecting from VPN. Like everything else this method isn't full proof realize geo-location of IPs can be out of date as they're occasionally bought and sold. People in this scenario will often report strange things for other location based services like weather.com, etc...

That's all can think of for now. Are these things more work? Yeah definitely. *Should* they be necessary? No they shouldn't. However there's no sense denying the reality that with the wonders of our more connected lives come with the additional exposure to more bad people doing bad things. I'd advise not to take it personal if questioned using any above techniques, appreciate the other person for taking the effort to protect their and your identities/reputations by exercising due diligence. Keep in mind that this effort is essentially the cost of not using brokers or another third party that takes on this work/risks for you. Realize there are solutions/opportunity costs for all risk levels and just decide where you feel most comfortable.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:40 PM   #15
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I also want to add it is not difficult for a renter to be active on MO. I am a perfect example .
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:20 AM   #16
Commish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottalex View Post
Disclaimers:
1. While I am in IT, I'm not an IT Sec specialist.
2. Methods discussed below are not full proof, but simply additional "diligence" methods that two parties might decide to partake in in order to help build trust.
3. This is not a comprehensive list, this is just off top of my head as I see lot of caution for exercising judgement but not a ton of discussion on techniques for doing so.
4. No single verification method is sufficient for validation. Rather rely on multiple, unrelated, methods to build up the probability that you're speaking with a genuine person with good intent.

This is good advice (I also deal extensively with Cyber Security)

Regarding #4 - you want to "Break the Chain", not specific to DVC, if you receive an e-mail from "AMEX" - never click on the email link - log into your account directly -

This link is to a Video which was a part of a Cyber Security Training session I coordinated earlier this year - How hackers hack you using simple social engineering
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:42 PM   #17
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Okay MOs, I know you all will understand my mixed emotions. We are buying a new house. YAY! We are going to be responsible adults and rent our upcoming Christmas reservations and apply the funds to grown up things. BOO!

Due to the recent discussions on attempted scams, I want to be cautious and not put myself at undue risk. I will use a rental contract, not give out my membership number, not communicate via private email or text...but how far as the owner of the reservation can I go to limit giving my personal information to a renter? What information would you feel like you needed to be comfortable if you were the renter?

TIA
I'm sorry that you have to give up your Christmas reservation! I have rented off and on for years. Sadly, there are scammers on both sides of the equation but the vast majority of them pose as DVC members. I would venture to say that even the person who scammed DVCERSINCEDAY1 out of her information was ultimately a false DVC member who was beefing up their online persona.

A private DVC rental is, by definition, a transaction of trust. The renter needs to trust that the DVC member is legitimate and won't run off with their money or cancel the reservation or fail to pay their dues. The DVC member needs to trust the renter that they won't use their personal information for nefarious scams.

For me, the additional money I get for my reservations is worth renting myself and not through a broker who takes a cut. FTR, I have never had a real problem with people I met here on MO except for the occasional renter who hems and haws for a few days before deciding that a private rental was not for them. I just rented a reservation a couple of weeks ago and it went very smoothly.

If you don't feel confident renting privately, you can contact a broker who can help you out. Many people on MO use brokers because they don't want to hassle with dealing with renters. It's not for me but I'm glad the option is available for others.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:21 PM   #18
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OP, I will echo the previous poster and, also, commend you for giving up a vacation in order to prioritize your current situation. You have gotten lots of helpful information from numerous folks who rent and it is all good, imo. I would just add that (in my experience) most of the people who rent making renting a pleasant event for both parties. I don't rent that much, but only once have I rented and regretted it, and that was bc that person should NEVER have rented from an individual, should only have rented from Disney, they were so paranoid. I am pretty trusting and place the res in the renter's name prior to asking for any money. I also let the renter know via the contract the points are considered "theirs" and I will try to rebook (prior to the end of the use year), if they need to cancel. I've done that once, when the wife became sick, and was able to rebook at another resort for them the following month. That being said, Christmas is just a few months away, so I would suggest reading all the important posting criteria Kim provides and posting as soon as possible. Best of luck!
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:39 AM   #19
Beth33
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Originally Posted by HoosierMinnie View Post
What information would you feel like you needed to be comfortable if you were the renter?

TIA
I'd want your name, location, and phone number. That way, I could verify that there was indeed a person who goes by your name living where you say you do. I could verify that your phone number area code matched your claimed physical location, too. I could also verify that you are a DVC owner using the relevant Comptroller/Recorderís records. I wouldn't need your email; its so easy to set up an email using whatever handle you want, it's not particularly useful in terms of verification.

As a potential renter, anyone asking for money too early in the process would raise a red flag for me personally. Maybe if I had done the legwork and verified your identity to the extent possible, we had talked on the phone and you seemed legit, we had a signed contract in place, and you verified that the accommodations I wanted were available and you'd book as soon as you had the deposit in hand, I could do it. It would make me a little bit suspicious as a renter, though.

GL renting your Dec. reservation, and with your new home!
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:46 AM   #20
cmrdgrs
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Originally Posted by Beth33 View Post
I'd want your name, location, and phone number. That way, I could verify that there was indeed a person who goes by your name living where you say you do. I could verify that your phone number area code matched your claimed physical location, too. I could also verify that you are a DVC owner using the relevant Comptroller/Recorderís records. I wouldn't need your email; its so easy to set up an email using whatever handle you want, it's not particularly useful in terms of verification.

As a potential renter, anyone asking for money too early in the process would raise a red flag for me personally. Maybe if I had done the legwork and verified your identity to the extent possible, we had talked on the phone and you seemed legit, we had a signed contract in place, and you verified that the accommodations I wanted were available and you'd book as soon as you had the deposit in hand, I could do it. It would make me a little bit suspicious as a renter, though.

GL renting your Dec. reservation, and with your new home!
As a DVC owner who rents I think you have reasonable requests and from a renters standpoint very logical
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