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Old 08-04-2018, 05:23 PM   #221
erikthewise
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Originally Posted by GiantsNiners11 View Post
To be fair, this is scientifically inaccurate or at best, a vague argument. Plastic consumption is only part of the fart equation.
There's a fart equation?!
As a mathematician I have a professional interest; please send references!
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Old 08-04-2018, 07:59 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by erikthewise View Post
There's a fart equation?!
As a mathematician I have a professional interest; please send references!
Retired mathematician! The fart equation is part of the “new math”.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:27 AM   #223
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Right. It has nothing to do with making an actual difference, and everything to do with making people feel good temporarily. I suspect the mass of all of the straws thrown away at Disney would pale in comparison to that of other plastic items that are discarded.
I still don't understand the argument that reducing waste doesn't make a difference.

No one thing every solves anything. Couple this, though, with other bans coming (plastic grocery bags, etc.) and then you start to make a difference.

In some ways, your argument is kinda like the argument that "Hey, this little tax won't affect anybody at all!" Yet, one hit on top of another, and suddenly it does.

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Old 08-05-2018, 10:24 AM   #224
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I still don't understand the argument that reducing waste doesn't make a difference.

No one thing every solves anything. Couple this, though, with other bans coming (plastic grocery bags, etc.) and then you start to make a difference.
It is far easier to bury ones head in the sand...or plastic, in this case...than to realize that fixing something is rarely done all at once, but is done in steps. As I said earlier- if we look at any single individual component, none of them make up a significant fraction of the problem. So it is easy, in a myopic way, to conclude that "stopping that" will have minimal impact and is just for show. But, as you say, it has to start somewhere, and then build.

As well, it's also easier to deny the impact of our actions for our own convenience. It's how we got here in the first place.

Cheers.
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:25 PM   #225
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It is far easier to bury ones head in the sand...or plastic, in this case...than to realize that fixing something is rarely done all at once, but is done in steps. As I said earlier- if we look at any single individual component, none of them make up a significant fraction of the problem. So it is easy, in a myopic way, to conclude that "stopping that" will have minimal impact and is just for show. But, as you say, it has to start somewhere, and then build.

As well, it's also easier to deny the impact of our actions for our own convenience. It's how we got here in the first place.

Cheers.
Incremental changes now, or drastic changes later.

With regard to plastic, I just don't see how we aren't setting up our own doom with that stuff, but then I'm not a scientist. Sure, solutions may came along the reduce the waste problem, but it does seem to be one that is causing major damage.

Plastic just doesn't go away. Ever. Or at least a practical ever.

Dirk
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:12 PM   #226
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This thread makes me want to watch soylent green.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:32 PM   #227
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Since I'm back checking on the forum and this thread popped up first, I thought I'd just chime in with my perspective.

As most of you know I have Rheumatoid Arthritis. I grew up with it and tht means I have severe joint damage throughout my body. My elbows are fused and my wrists and fingers are deformed. So If I want to drink something I absolutely need either a tall bottle, mug or straw. I carry a bag of them wherever I go. One time, the guard at Animal Kingdom confiscated my bag of straws upon entry to the park. Result? I didn't drink anything that day.

Since then I've tried a multitude of things. Paper straws degrade too quickly. My one plastic straw lasts me all day. If I rinse it out, I can get 2-3 days use from it. A reusable straw can last a week, but after that you get this black mold growing inside. It's near impossible to dry these things.

Now I use two drinking apparatuses when I travel. One of my 24oz Hawaiian Punch bottles (I bring a 6-pack when I drive down to Florida, 2 if I'm gonna be there a month.) and my refillable Disney mug. I take that mug everywhere I go, even into the park. It's great for soda, milk, hot chocolate, tea, juice and even water. I'll stick a straw in the lid if I want the easiest reach, but I can drink of of the tiny hole. My one wish is that Disney would make the reusable mug usable in the parks for refills. Then I don't need to carry a soda can or buy another disposable cup.

Given all the actual research that's been done on this subject, I know the current ban on plastic straws is really just a bunch of virtue signalling. If Disney, Starbucks and other companies and municipalities really wanted to cut the amount of plastic waste, they'd ban plastic water bottles as well as plastic cups. (Have you seen the amount of plastic Starbuck uses?)

The one thing that this affects is now I'll have to make sure I travel with my plastic straws always, even when I fly. And if another guard wants to confiscate my straws, I'll just have to insist they are a medical necessity.

This isn't the first ridiculous rule I've encountered. At my local NFL stadium they started banning the lids for the plastic bottled drinks they sell. Reason? Some angry drunk fan might pitch the lid at another fan. Better to have them throw an open drink, I guess. I handled it the same way. I added plastic bottle lids to my daypack toolkit. Goes right next to the wet wipes, rain poncos, straws and tools (just in case the chair breaks).

I'm not sorry about the loss of the toiletries. I always bring my own anyway. I need the same reusable pump dispenser.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:41 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by broganmc View Post

Given all the actual research that's been done on this subject, I know the current ban on plastic straws is really just a bunch of virtue signalling. If Disney, Starbucks and other companies and municipalities really wanted to cut the amount of plastic waste, they'd ban plastic water bottles as well as plastic cups. (Have you seen the amount of plastic Starbuck uses?).
First, I'm sorry for your situation, but that doesn't change the reality of this ban as a step in a longer walk. Perhaps the research you're looking at is different from mine but, according to what I read and the organizations that support this (I mentioned Monterey Bay Aquarium above, and I truly hope that no one is about to challenge their priorities), this is a valuable step and not a token action.

Sure, bottles/cups would cut even more. Who know- that may be next. Bigger things start from smaller things. The reality is that plastic straws are easier to ban than plastic bottles. But once the one goes, the precedent is furthered and the bottle becomes somewhat easier.

Doing something, even something relatively small, is a step toward a larger move. Doing nothing? Well, that's how we got into this shit hole in the first place. More of the same blind reasoning ain't gonna cut it.

Cheers.
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:36 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by brp View Post
First, I'm sorry for your situation, but that doesn't change the reality of this ban as a step in a longer walk. Perhaps the research you're looking at is different from mine but, according to what I read and the organizations that support this (I mentioned Monterey Bay Aquarium above, and I truly hope that no one is about to challenge their priorities), this is a valuable step and not a token action.

Sure, bottles/cups would cut even more. Who know- that may be next. Bigger things start from smaller things. The reality is that plastic straws are easier to ban than plastic bottles. But once the one goes, the precedent is furthered and the bottle becomes somewhat easier.

Doing something, even something relatively small, is a step toward a larger move. Doing nothing? Well, that's how we got into this shit hole in the first place. More of the same blind reasoning ain't gonna cut it.

Cheers.
I have to agree with this. I even have family I've done Disney with who have severe disabilities (to the point where she can no longer travel) and we're okay with the idea of it. Sure they use plastic straws at the facility she now lives, but even then we've found alternatives so we don't use them all the time. She now pours her drinks into reusable cups with straws.

While I am sorry that taking the straws at AK caused issues, it's also something that will cause issues for animals. So who wins in this case? At least there are alternatives with reusable straws or just using more than one paper if needed (I'm not sure why that's an issue for some honestly).

I used to be a bad user of plastic straws when my child was young. I feel bad thinking about how much I added when there were better ways to do it. Though I personally hope we don't get to a Six Flags or fair type of way where you get the refill jugs. There are better methods that won't be near as wasteful or using of more plastics.

There are compostable cups out there that are plastic. I bet they can do lids for it too, though hot beverages cannot use these. I'm just not comfortable adding to the situation. I noticed this weekend out with my friends 3/4 of them opted for no lid and no straw while drinking. That's not a bad thing IMO.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:43 AM   #230
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If Disney really wanted to make a difference in it's waste, it would start collecting and composting all the food waste that it has on a daily bases. I can't believe they haven't done this already, not only is it good for the environment but would save them a ton of money.
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