DVC Purchase – What exactly are you getting?

[DVC Mike]

What exactly are you getting when you purchase a membership in the Disney Vacation Club?

Some people assume that for the next ‘n’ years of their membership contract, they will get all the cool things that they heard about during the DVC sales presentation. They might even expect VIP treatment as they visit Disney Parks, including a bunch of member “perks”.

However, this is not strictly true. Yes, it is possible that might happen – but it is not guaranteed. So then, what actually is guaranteed?

Basically, all you are purchasing is the right to try to reserve an accommodation (a room) at your particular home resort (and all reservations are subject to availability on a first come, first-served basis). Bottom line, that is all that is “guaranteed”.

There is no guarantee that you will continue to be able to use your points to reserve any other DVC resorts. It is legally possible (though not very probable) that your home resort or any other present DVC resort might be removed from the DVC multi-site timeshare plan.

Future resorts built by Disney Vacation Development are not guaranteed to become part of the existing DVC multi-site timeshare plan. It is theoretically possible that you won’t be able to use your points to book new DVC resorts built in the future.

Our ability to use our points to book reservations in the “Disney Collection” (at Disney hotels at Walt Disney World, Disneyland and other Disney Parks around the world, or to book reservations on Disney Cruise Lines) is not guaranteed. The same applies to the Adventurer Collection (Adventures by Disney) and the Concierge Collection. The number of reservation points required to book these collections can be revised or adjusted upward at any time without notice, and the continued availability of these collections may be terminated at any time.

Even the “World Passport Collection” is not really guaranteed, in that while DVC will use reasonable efforts to make agreements with exchange companies such as RCI, there is no guarantee that they will be able to (however unlikely that is).

All of the member “perks”, such as discounts on Annual Passes, recreational opportunities, dining, tours, and shopping may be modified or terminated at any time by DVC. The continued availability of these discount programs is not guaranteed. Perks have come and gone in the past.

So remember when you sign a DVC purchase contract, all you are purchasing is the right to try to reserve an accommodation (a room) at your particular home resort.

Everything else is subject to change.

Now granted, as long as Disney Vacation Development continues to successfully develop new DVC resorts and makes money selling them direct, they will have good reasons to continue to offer special programs and perks to enhance the value and appeal of what they are marketing.

As we’ve seen, Disney may continue to further restrict the availability of these special programs and discounts in order to further differentiate buying direct from buying on the resale market.

I can't predict the future, but I suspect many of the things above that I say are possible will never come to pass. I'm just noting them as possibilities since there are so few guarantees in life.

[jedwards]

Originally Posted by DVC Mike

What exactly are you getting when you purchase a membership in the Disney Vacation Club?

Some people assume that for the next ‘n’ years of their membership contract, they will get all the cool things that they heard about during the DVC sales presentation. They might even expect VIP treatment as they visit Disney Parks, including a bunch of member “perks”.

However, this is not strictly true. Yes, it is possible that might happen – but it is not guaranteed. So then, what actually is guaranteed?

Basically, all you are purchasing is the right to try to reserve an accommodation (a room) at your particular home resort (and all reservations are subject to availability on a first come, first-served basis). Bottom line, that is all that is “guaranteed”.

There is no guarantee that you will continue to be able to use your points to reserve any other DVC resorts. It is legally possible (though not very probable) that your home resort or any other present DVC resort might be removed from the DVC multi-site timeshare plan.

Future resorts built by Disney Vacation Development are not guaranteed to become part of the existing DVC multi-site timeshare plan. It is theoretically possible that you won’t be able to use your points to book new DVC resorts built in the future.

Our ability to use our points to book reservations in the “Disney Collection” (at Disney hotels at Walt Disney World, Disneyland and other Disney Parks around the world, or to book reservations on Disney Cruise Lines) is not guaranteed. The same applies to the Adventurer Collection (Adventures by Disney) and the Concierge Collection. The number of reservation points required to book these collections can be revised or adjusted upward at any time without notice, and the continued availability of these collections may be terminated at any time.

Even the “World Passport Collection” is not really guaranteed, in that while DVC will use reasonable efforts to make agreements with exchange companies such as RCI, there is no guarantee that they will be able to (however unlikely that is).

All of the member “perks”, such as discounts on Annual Passes, recreational opportunities, dining, tours, and shopping may be modified or terminated at any time by DVC. The continued availability of these discount programs is not guaranteed. Perks have come and gone in the past.

So remember when you sign a DVC purchase contract, all you are purchasing is the right to try to reserve an accommodation (a room) at your particular home resort.

Everything else is subject to change.

Now granted, as long as Disney Vacation Development continues to successfully develop new DVC resorts and makes money selling them direct, they will have good reasons to continue to offer special programs and perks to enhance the value and appeal of what they are marketing.

As we’ve seen, Disney may continue to further restrict the availability of these special programs and discounts in order to further differentiate buying direct from buying on the resale market.

I can't predict the future, but I suspect many of the things above that I say are possible will never come to pass. I'm just noting them as possibilities since there are so few guarantees in life.

Mike,

My guide was completely straight up with me and did not try to embellish the truth in anyway. His name is Steven Fisher and he moved up and is no longer with DVC, but he was a honest guy.

I absolutely agree with you that all the perks can be gone whenever deemed by Disney, that is clear in any contract that any of us signed. However, I believe that the right to trade into DVC resorts that are here right now, cannot be taken away. I bought into a membership and not a traditional timeshare. You, obviously, know more than I do about DVC, so could you please tell me where it is stated that they can remove the right to trade into other DVC resorts?

Thanks,
Jean

[DVC Mike]

Originally Posted by jedwards

I believe that the right to trade into DVC resorts that are here right now, cannot be taken away. I bought into a membership and not a traditional timeshare. You, obviously, know more than I do about DVC, so could you please tell me where it is stated that they can remove the right to trade into other DVC resorts?

Jean,


As I pointed out, I suspect many of the things that I said are possible will never come to pass. I'm just noting them as possibilities. Some are remotely possible, and some are not. It is legally possible (though not very probable) that your home resort or any other present DVC resort might be removed from the DVC multi-site timeshare plan.

The Multi-Site Public Offering Statement and the Buena Vista Trading Company Disclosure Guide both refer to the possibility of the DVC Resort Agreement being terminated for a resort, resulting in that resort no longer being able to participate in the DVC Reservation Component. The owners of that resort would not be able to use their points to book any other DVC resorts.

There are various reasons this might occur:

• DVCMC is removed as manager of the resort’s condominium association (not likely)
• The ground lease is terminated (not likely)
• The resort is destroyed (casualty or condemnation)
• Bankruptcy of DVCMC
• The condominium association and BVTC mutually agree to terminate the DVC Resort Agreement

The last one is vague, and I'm sure Disney would face lawsuits by owners if they did this without some valid reason.

[markandtodd]

We also have the fortune of a very honest guide. Aside from that, we took three years to mull it over...giving us plenty of time to read the fine print. We knew exactly what we were getting. The perks and privileges are nice, but we don't take them for granted. We're well aware that they can be taken away at any time. We'd be very happy to stay only at our home resort for the remainder of our contract, should that scenario ever play out. It amazes us the number of people who think they are actually due more than what their contract(s) stipulate.

[jedwards]

Originally Posted by markandtodd

We also have the fortune of a very honest guide. Aside from that, we took three years to mull it over...giving us plenty of time to read the fine print. We knew exactly what we were getting. The perks and privileges are nice, but we don't take them for granted. We're well aware that they can be taken away at any time. We'd be very happy to stay only at our home resort for the remainder of our contract, should that scenario ever play out. It amazes us the number of people who think they are actually due more than what their contract(s) stipulate.

The "I'm entitled" attitude really amazes me. I am happy that I bought direct on my first purchase because I think I had more information than those who bought only resale. Now, Im buying resale

[OttawaWendy]

Originally Posted by jedwards

The "I'm entitled" attitude really amazes me.

Yeah, it always bothers me when I hear (in person) or read (on the board) someone complaining "but I own here". I always want to say "look, your ownership at that resort gets you an 11 month window and determines the MFs you'll pay. That's it. Suck it up and get to the back of the line.".

As for taking away our trading rights within DVC, I thought there was some suggestion that this might go away in the last year or so of the program? Or am I confusing that with banking and borrowing might be taken away?

Actually, if banking and borrowing might go, I think that's one of the possibilities, that might go into your original post Mike. Thanks for the thread. I think it's a good one.

[jedwards]

Originally Posted by DVC Mike

Jean,


As I pointed out, I suspect many of the things that I said are possible will never come to pass. I'm just noting them as possibilities. Some are remotely possible, and some are not. It is legally possible (though not very probable) that your home resort or any other present DVC resort might be removed from the DVC multi-site timeshare plan.

The Multi-Site Public Offering Statement and the Buena Vista Trading Company Disclosure Guide both refer to the possibility of the DVC Resort Agreement being terminated for a resort, resulting in that resort no longer being able to participate in the DVC Reservation Component. The owners of that resort would not be able to use their points to book any other DVC resorts.

There are various reasons this might occur:

• DVCMC is removed as manager of the resort’s condominium association (not likely)
• The ground lease is terminated (not likely)
• The resort is destroyed (casualty or condemnation)
• Bankruptcy of DVCMC
• The condominium association and BVTC mutually agree to terminate the DVC Resort Agreement

The last one is vague, and I'm sure Disney would face lawsuits by owners if they did this without some valid reason.

Thanks for the clarification.

[salmoneous]

So, that free beer promise was a lie? Bummer.

While this is an excellent post from Mike and I understand his intent, I think we've drifted far into hair splitting territory. If you take the central premise... that all we are guaranteed is the right to reserve a room at our home resort... we'll, even that isn't guaranteed. Fire, hurricane, nuclear terrorism, etc. could destroy our home resort tomorrow. Are those scenarios any less likely than ones where BWV isn't controlled by Disney or can't trade with BCV?

DVC has been around for more than 20 years. Over that time there have been changes in DVC management, and dramatic changes in senior Disney management. While there have been some fringe changes in DVC (we lost valet parking, but gained free internet; we went from check-out day reservations to check-in day; we went from II to RCI) the core product just isn't that different despite the doom and gloom predictions of some internet posters (generally ones on other boards.)

Going forward, I think it very reasonable to assume that will continue. We'll see tweaks here and there, but the core product will remain the same. The biggest change has been and will be new DVC resorts where we can use our points.

No, that's not guaranteed. But if you imagine the type of scenario that would drive dramatic changes in the core product, they are generally scenarios where DVC is far down on my list of things to worry about.

[DVC Mike]

Originally Posted by salmoneous

While this is an excellent post from Mike and I understand his intent....

Sal, as you said, you aware of the intent behind my post. Look, I know it’s more likely that I win the Presidency of the United States (twice) than BWV would ever get removed from DVC. While it’s more likely for that to happen to an offsite resort such as VB or HHI, we’re still talking remote possibilities.

My intent was to point out what is “guaranteed” and particularly what isn’t. Many of the things that I mentioned as possibilities are extremely unlikely to ever occur.

However, there are some folks who just bought or shortly will be who may believe they're buying and are going to get exactly what was presented to them during the sales presentation, and might not recognize what is potentially "temporary" versus what is most likely "permanent".

There have been changes to perks (such as the removal of free valet parking and the addition of free internet) and reservation system changes (such as the expansion of MS from 5 to 7 days a week, changes in the booking window from the check-out date to the check-in date, wait list changes, point chart reallocations, on-line check-in and on-line reservations).

Despite these changes, I am as (if not more) happy with my DVC membership than the day I purchased my first contract. I still believe in the product, and I’m glad that Disney has continued to invest in it and retain the value proposition. I am a happy DVC member and I promote it as a great option for many people.

The intent behind my post was for those people who are either researching their first DVC purchase or those who just bought in to understand that they purchased a timeshare and didn’t join an elite club where Disney will treat them as VIPs. I know most of the regulars on MouseOwners are already aware of this. We bought future accommodations at what we believe is a discounted price. As I stated – everything else is indeed subject to change.

[DougEMG]

It's always a good idea to know exactly what you are getting when you make a major purchase like DVC, so I think this post is important so people understand exactly what they are buying.

Will be interesting to see if any changes are made to the program when GFV opens.