Grumble, grumble, grumble...

[tammymacb]

My kid is killing me.

Caroline has been on 10 cruises. ( She's 15 ) and I've paid the way for a friend for many of them.

Just came home from "the best cruise EVER-Carnival" - per Caroline. I paid for her friend Lauren to come, and they had an inside room across from our extended balcony.

I'd already told her that I wasn't paying for anyone to join us on the Disney Fantasy in June of '13. Just too much money. Well, now she's begging to bring Lauren again. They do have a great time together, and keep each other amused. And as those of you with teens know, a happy teen makes for a livable life.

So, now Car's begging to bring Lauren on the next cruise. I called Disney today to see if they'd allow a 4th in my room. (Ack I can imagine the mess already ) andI can. Price additional $1100.

I also priced another Carnival ship. The Freedom. 8 nights out of Fort Lauderdale, Antigua, St Thomas, Tortola ( the Baths! ) and Nassau. $4000 total with 2 rooms.

I don't really want to go on Carnival again for the next trip and have my heart set on the dream. However, I DON'T have my heart set on 4 in a room and the joys involved with that.

I also checked Princess...no Caribbean in the Summer. Not too excited about RCCL for this trip and NCL is out.

Any comments, suggestions, or advice?

( Oh, and this year if Lauren wants to come again, I will be asking the parents for at least a $500 donation towards her upkeep as I pay for everything including excursions. )

[OttawaWendy]

Well, I'm going to put on the foster parent hat.

Clear expectations - clear consequences.

First, if you don't want to invite her, you don't have to. It's your money. But it is also OK to decide that the tipping point between the cost (i.e. money, mess, noise etc.) and benefits (i.e. happy daughter) could be moved so as to make bringing the friend worthwhile.

So ask yourself, what might make this worthwhile?

1. Would you be willing to do it if both Lauren and Caroline contributed something to the cruise? (When we do major youth group trips in our congregation, the youth themselves earn about $650, the parents must pay the same, and then we fundraise the rest. The idea is that they are "earning" their own pilgrimage, not having it handed to them). There are lots of ways for 15 year olds to earn money (i.e. babysitting, doing extra chores around the house, raking leaves, shovelling snow - OK maybe not in SC, or getting a regular paid job). If this is something they want, why not make them demonstrate that they understand that it is not free and that they can be agents in making this happen. An alternative here, depending on what you want, is to say that you will only pay for things x,y,z and they must pay for any extras (i.e. snacks with movies, bingo, excursions, etc.) again so they understand that the world is not free.

2. Is the $500 the maximum that the other family can afford? Can you negotiate this with them?

3. Is there some specific rules you want with regard to sharing and using space in the cabin (i.e. times of wake up and bed, quiet rules, showering schedule, cleanliness, etc.) Can you sit down with the two of them and say "my biggest concern here is that you'll make me want to scream at both of you because of the mess and sheer crowdedness. How can we deal with this?" These expectations must be precise (not "we'll keep the room clean" but "every day by 9 am we will pack away our bed completely. All our clothing will remain in designated areas at all times. We will use the shower for 15 minutes each and will do so at a time that is convenient to the adults. Go on and on here). Can you not only negotiate the list of expectations, but also the consequences should those expecations not be met? (Warning, you need to think ahead of time about consequences you would actually be willing and able to impose). Write it all down. Sign it. Bring it with you.

Good luck.

[henrycpa91]

Originally Posted by OttawaWendy

Well, I'm going to put on the foster parent hat.

Clear expectations - clear consequences.

First, if you don't want to invite her, you don't have to. It's your money. But it is also OK to decide that the tipping point between the cost (i.e. money, mess, noise etc.) and benefits (i.e. happy daughter) could be moved so as to make bringing the friend worthwhile.

So ask yourself, what might make this worthwhile?

1. Would you be willing to do it if both Lauren and Caroline contributed something to the cruise? (When we do major youth group trips in our congregation, the youth themselves earn about $650, the parents must pay the same, and then we fundraise the rest. The idea is that they are "earning" their own pilgrimage, not having it handed to them). There are lots of ways for 15 year olds to earn money (i.e. babysitting, doing extra chores around the house, raking leaves, shovelling snow - OK maybe not in SC, or getting a regular paid job). If this is something they want, why not make them demonstrate that they understand that it is not free and that they can be agents in making this happen. An alternative here, depending on what you want, is to say that you will only pay for things x,y,z and they must pay for any extras (i.e. snacks with movies, bingo, excursions, etc.) again so they understand that the world is not free.

2. Is the $500 the maximum that the other family can afford? Can you negotiate this with them?

3. Is there some specific rules you want with regard to sharing and using space in the cabin (i.e. times of wake up and bed, quiet rules, showering schedule, cleanliness, etc.) Can you sit down with the two of them and say "my biggest concern here is that you'll make me want to scream at both of you because of the mess and sheer crowdedness. How can we deal with this?" These expectations must be precise (not "we'll keep the room clean" but "every day by 9 am we will pack away our bed completely. All our clothing will remain in designated areas at all times. We will use the shower for 15 minutes each and will do so at a time that is convenient to the adults. Go on and on here). Can you not only negotiate the list of expectations, but also the consequences should those expecations not be met? (Warning, you need to think ahead of time about consequences you would actually be willing and able to impose). Write it all down. Sign it. Bring it with you.

Good luck.

I love this Wendy. I am sure there are things around the house you would prefer not to do that these young ladies are capable of doing. Laundry, cleaning, etc. Assign a value to them and have them earn the $1100.....

[wendya124]

Maybe your daughter and her friend could work, babysit, to pay for her friend to go? It seems more than reasonable to me. Between now and next June, they could earn enough to pay for a separate stateroom probably.

[PAJD]

Tammy, I'd absolutely suggest the same as WendyA. I'd say save the money yourself(ves), and she can come. That's a lot of money to be fronting every vacation. It's incredibly generous that you've done that for so long, but they're at ages now where they can make money if they want to.

If they lived in my neighborhod, I guarantee you they'd make close to $60-$100 a night every Friday and Saturday night babysitting for one of the 260 houses in our neighborhood - 75% of whom have kids 10 and under. They'd probably make $20 or so a day getting kids off the bus and watching them til parents get home too.

I'm just saying this because I know I couldn't afford to take a friend on every vacation, so that's the way I'd suggest the kids do to make it happen.

[tammymacb]

I'm going to talk with Angus and Caroline tonite, come up with a plan and then talk to Lauren't parents.

They can definitely afford the money, I just feel kind of weird suddenly asking for it. ...( this all started years back when we took a friend for a Disney "kids sail free" sale and it's never stopped ).

I checked today for room prices for 2 on the Fantasy. I figured if I had to I'd move to a cheap-o room if we could do side by side insides or something. Well, everything is gone but balconies. So $3400 each, and that's not happening.

The only real desire I have to give up my Fantasy cruise, is sharing the room. I know I'll be frustrated with that situation quickly, regardless of Lauren coming or not.

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Originally Posted by tammymacb

So, now Car's begging to bring Lauren on the next cruise. I called Disney today to see if they'd allow a 4th in my room. (Ack I can imagine the mess already ) andI can. Price additional $1100.

Any comments, suggestions, or advice?

( Oh, and this year if Lauren wants to come again, I will be asking the parents for at least a $500 donation towards her upkeep as I pay for everything including excursions. )

Originally Posted by wendya124

Maybe your daughter and her friend could work, babysit, to pay for her friend to go? It seems more than reasonable to me. Between now and next June, they could earn enough to pay for a separate stateroom probably.

Yeah, I'm going to throw in with Wendy here-by 15 I was capable of earning that over a summer-if she wants to bring her friend, I'd say let them earn the room on their own. I'm kind of a hardass when it comes to teaching a kid to earn their own money as soon as possible, so they understand how bloody hard it is to come by.

You could always explain the change in the MacB policy by saying "we're looking at this as a teaching opportunity" .

[salmoneous]

Simple plan... offer the kid a choice

A) Mom and Dad go cruising by themselves. On the Fantasy. Which is the ship *they* want. Have a wonderful kid-free time. And save a few bucks towards the next cruise, which will involve daughter and friend.

B) Kid comes on this trip, sans friend.

You love your kid, but Mom and Dad should be able to get what they want too.

[tammymacb]

The problem with that is we do, Sal.

The cruise ends up being the Caroline picks trip. She always picks cruises. The mom and dad trip is our dive trip- GC in June this year.

I can't do the Caroline trip sans Caroline. It wouldn't be well accepted.

[salmoneous]

Originally Posted by tammymacb

The problem with that is we do, Sal.

The cruise ends up being the Caroline picks trip. She always picks cruises. The mom and dad trip is our dive trip- GC in June this year.

Hey, she gets a choice. She can have *her* trip this year, sans friend. Or she can postpone this years trip and get to bring a friend next year. Besides, shouldn't it be Mom Trip, Dad Trip, Caroline Trip? Not Mom/Dad Trip, Caroline Trip?

Note - Is there anything more fun than being child free and giving parenting advice? Everything is *so* simple from our standpoint.