Renting points vs. Using them for a cruise

[bmalonef45]

We are in the process of looking into a 3 day cruise for next November. I have looked at the point totals and it seems like it costs a lot of points to cruise. I don't have much of a problem with that but wanted to know if it is better to try to rent your points and then just pay cash for the cruise. Is it hard to rent points? How much do they usually go for? Do you need to find an agent to rent them? If so what is their commission. I am a new member and haven't got this deep into finding the best use of points yet but have read interesting ideas and want to make the best use of my points as possible.

Thanks,

[tjkraz]

IMO, you're much better off paying cash and renting the points if you want to cruise. In addition to the number of points required, there is also a $75 cash booking fee. That fee must be paid again if you ever change anything about the reservation. And, if you have to cancel, your DVC points remain "reservation points" and cannot be used for a DVC resort--they can only be used for things like the Concierge Collection or the Disney Collection.

You don't need an agent to rent points, but having a contract is advisable. Look around here and you will find one that someone posted a few weeks back. "Renting" points is basically the process of you making a reservation in someone else's name for an agreed upon price. Since the person receiving the reservation can't make any direct contact with DVC, that contract is important for their peace of mind. It's also important to you since DVC reservations do have more limitations than cash reservations. The last thing you need is someone calling you 2 weeks before their trip claiming they have to cancel and expecting a full refund.

Point transfers are even easier. DVC members can transfer points to and from other members. When you rent, you need to handle all of the details of the reservation with DVC. When you transfer, you receive money, surrender the points and you're done. I wrote some info on transfers here:

http://www.mouseowners.com/PointTransfers.html

There are a couple of places you can go to rent points. IMO, if you want to maximize your return, I'd try to do it on eBay. Do a search there for auction listings and you'll find lots of examples of how people market their points. Basically you're best listing a single auction for a Sunday - Friday stay (5 cheap nights) in a Studio. Since the points vary by season, it's up to you to decide exactly what dollar amount to associate. Mid-June to mid August is all Magic season. 5 nights in a Studio at BWV / VWL / BCV are 70 points. The rack rate for 5 nights during that time period, including the 11.5% tax, is about $1900. Personally, I'd start the auction in the neighborhood of $800 and see where it goes.

Just make sure you indicate the exact time period during which the reservation can be made, and include those all important words "subject to availability." You'll have to firm-up exact dates with DVC before expecting any payment, but the summer months aren't high demand for DVC.

We will eventually have a rent / trade board here. It's just a matter of time. In the meantime, if anyone reading this wants to make Bryan an offer, go for it. :)

Hope that helps.

[lllovell]

Welllllllllll let me see if some of us can answer some of your questions.

First off, you don't need an agent, but renting points requires a bit of trust and a good contract (in my opinion). You can go about it in two ways - renting outright or renting to a current member which only requires a transfer. Both have positives and negatives and both require some trust from both parties (typically).

If you rent the points to someone who isn't a member, you have to call member services and make the reservation in their name, the ressie comes to you and you must forward it to them. They can call member services to verify that there is a ressie in their name for X date, but that is all the information MS will give them. They have to trust that you won't take their money and cancel the reservation or change it to a smaller room if one were available (or say a different view for less points at Boardwalk). You have to have an iron clad contract that explains that they CANNOT cancel less than X number of days out and spelling out how you want them to pay (typically 1/2 up front or more and 1/2 60 days prior to travel). The problem is that if they cancel late and you don't have the money, your points end up in holding and that has a lot of restrictions. The positive here is that you always maintain control of YOUR points.

If you rent member to member, you both can get on the line at once and call member services and you actually transfer the points to the other member and you no longer have any control of them and cannot get them back if the other member didn't pay, etc. The timing on this one is tricky and you have to figure out a way for you both to be comfortable with the situation. I have rented points from another member and I sent him 1/2 the money up front and he was supposed to put 1/2 the points in when he got my funds and then we would do the other 1/2, but he was trusting and did them all at once so I immediately sent him the rest of my money. It was a bit scary for us both, but doing it 1/2 at a time meant we both had a bit of danger involved.

I rented the points I wanted for $0.50 LESS than what he was asking because it is an easier transaction to rent to another member versus the involvement when you are renting to an outsider. Once I had the points in my account, it was my job to make the reservations and the headaches of my party cancelling on me were not his, but mine (since the points became "mine"). So ultimately that is the biggest difference - your willingness to be involved in making the reservations, etc for a higher fee or perhaps being willing to take a bit less and have a simple transaction.

The going rate for a while has been $10-$12 a point (depending on season, location, etc). What you charge is up to you. Technically "renting" is against the DVC rules but its a common practice. Ah yes - and the biggest kicker....YOU are responsible if you rent to a stranger and they damage the room. This is why you need a good contract up front (and why I think renting to another member where the points get transfered into their account is safer).

No agent is required. We don't have a rental board here (we are discussing it), but you can certainly find one on other websites that have DVC discussions. You also can list your points on EBAY, but again, its my understanding that technically this is a no-no. If you choose the EBAY route, you better make the cancellation policy VERY VERY clear from the get go and get your money up front.

Do you maybe have some friends or family that might be interested in going to WDW that would pay $10 or so a point? My friends are ALWAYS wanting to rent points from us because they have looked at the rates online and KNOW even at $10 a point they are getting one heck of a bargain for excellent accomidations. We don't usually have left over points, but I have done member transfers for them into my account and made the reservations for us all at once on more than one occasion. This would cut out any damage concerns, but again, you have to make doubly sure they understand the differences between DVC reservation policies and a traditional hotel reservation. The cancelling at the last minute thing is a killer if they would expect their money back and you would have "holding" or lost points.

Did that help?

[lllovell]

TJ always beats me to the punch :hammer:

[Colorado Belle]

THere are many DVC owners who are unwilling to rent their points. Many of them are scared of getting ripped off, some dont' think its worth the trouble, and some just prefer to use the points all by themselves!

So we can each only give you our personal opinion. Mine is that I bought a loaded contract and needed to rent those extra points to make my investment less costly. I also ended up with a few more points than I actualy needed and I came up with a strategy of renting out enough points per year to pay for my maintenance costs and then enjoying the rest of my points.

I too think that it is better to pay cash for cruises in most cases...because renting the points ends up bringing in more cash than the dollar cost of the cruise (unless it is a member's cruise in which case at least one person has to pay in points.

I have rented points or transferred them to another owner about 4 times and it has been easy and painless. I can't remember if I posted on the Dis-board rental board or just rent the rental board and contacted someone who said they needed points. You would have a much easier transaction if you just do a transfer...I've done that twice and it takes less than 5 minutes. $10-$11 per point is the going rate. I ask to be paid through Pay Pal and I do make up a simple contract, even if it is just a phone transfer. You can search for a copy of this contract on the dis-board too.

While I have never had any problems, I must tell you that there is some minimal risk regarding not getting paid or regarding a renter abusing his priviledges in the unit and then DVC charging you for the damage. So your rental contract should cover this and you should receive payment before transferring cause DVC is not responsible for any problems with regard to your renting of points and even states that you are not to receive compensation for 'renting' your points.

While there is some talk of starting a rental board here, it hasn't yet been done, so I think directing you to the Disboard and having you research there and use its 'Rental ' forum to find a willing renter is your best choice at this time.

Hope that helped!

[JimC]

My view is that cash is the better option for DCL -- the only advantage to using points for DCL is that it is easier to use them then rent them. Other than that a cash DCL reservation with DU as my agent is the preferred choice for us.

Reasons not to use points for DCL.

1. the transfer fee
2. 11 month booking restriction
3. restrictions on using points if you cancel over 60 days out versus a cash refund
4. inability to get a lower fare if a deal comes along after you book

[cobbler]

So do you think it is safer to transfer them to another member then to rent them to someone who isn't?

I am just curious. Do you still make the member do any contract thing or is it not even an issue because you can't be charged for any damages and such?

[JimC]

So do you think it is safer to transfer them to another member then to rent them to someone who isn't?

I am just curious. Do you still make the member do any contract thing or is it not even an issue because you can't be charged for any damages and such?

Not sure if you were asking me but all things being equal a points transfer is simpler -- one transaction, payment is immediate, no followup necessary, contract could easily be a simple exchange of emails agreeing to terms. The amount of risk may or may not chnage depending on the terms and how well you know the member.

[PoohsPal]

You wouldn't need a contract for damages, as they would make their own ressies. Most of it's handled with a 3-way call to MS, but you may want a contract fro payment. However, I would think with PayPal you could see that payment was made and tehn call MS.

[lllovell]

I agree that a transfer is MUCH easier. I didn't have a contract with the person I did a transfer with, but we had emails, etc that detailed what we were doing and what we had agreed to. They might not hold up in a court of law, but I didn't feel that was an issue really by the time we were ready to the do the transfer. It didn't take long at ALL (he called and transfered the points and I was able to call right after that to confirm - although MS did have to get a fax of permission from him before it was technically final I believe, so I was told to call back in 72 hours to confirm once again). He was a trusting soul and did the transfers before getting my checks (I had offered to do it via paypal, but he was fine with checks).

[bavaria]

I've done several transfers this year and they all went smoothly. One was done all via private messages and completed in less than an hour. In each case it didn't require a three way call to MS, or any type of written/fax/email follow up to them.

Now, about the rule that you can only transfer IN OR transfer OUT of your account in a year.... um.... does that still hold true? I wasn't aware of the rule and lets just say that I was able to complete both types of transactions.

[DSNY FN]

We called about the number of points it would take to cruise for a family of 5 and then rented them out and paid cash for the cruise. This gave us enough to pay for the cruise and buy MYW passes and have spending money and pay our dues for this year so IMHO rent out your points and pay cash for the cruise it is far more beneficial.