Seeking Input on Possible New Forum

[administrator]

Hi, All --

I am considering adding to the boards an Unmoderated Community Hall, with access only by member request (a new usergroup would be created expressly for this purpose).

Since a number of people seem to chafe at the idea of moderation, having an unmoderated, adult board might fit their needs. (In addition, those who want to steer clear of such an endeavor can continue to do so.) It would be, in other words, very similar to a usenet group. My only restrictions would be the following:

A) No discussion of board policy (this is what an upcoming Feedback forum is for; we can be sure to maintain a civil discourse in said forum, since that forum will be moderated)

B) No illegal activities (they will be reported to the appropriate authorities)

C) No spamming and no solicitation

D) No pornography

E) No threatening behaviors (predatory, stalking, etc., which also will be reported to the appropriate authorities)

F) Opinions expressed are those of the individual posters/members, and not those of MouseOwners or its officers, who will not be held liable for said comments.

Otherwise, people could curse, resort-bash, rental-bash, politician-bash, etc. to their heart's content.

What I like about this is that we are potentially combining the best of both worlds -- the moderated world and the unmoderated one. And, people could make a deliberate choice about whether or not they wanted to participate in such a forum. Of course, what I dislike about this is that such a move could also splinter the community and cause general bad feelings, much like the debate board did on the DIS.

I will be posting a poll along with this, but I am also interested in your thoughts. Thanks for your input!

Kim

[Rozzie]

at first I was like "YEEEEESSS!" than thinking about the debate board on the DIS I was like "oooooooh mmmm". So I voted maybe.

It is very hard to maintain friendships when there is open discussions on religion and politics, refillable mugs, etc. I mean, I know we are adults, but we all come from different backgrounds, different religions, different beliefs. I am anxious to hear what the others say.

I would enjoy open frank talk on WDW or DVC issues. As long as you don't trash talk OKW. :lmbo:

[ErinC]

No, apparently things are getting ugly enough around here on the moderated forums. I think it would just get completely out of hand for the reasons that Rozzie stated.

[Stimpy]

Hmmm....that's a toughie. Sounded kind of fun for a minute but then I can imagine things getting out of hand. It probably wouldn't be as friendly as it is now. I don't think I would want to visit there as much as I visit the present Community Board.

IF you do decide to go with this unmoderated Comm Board, what happens to the current Community Board?

[KNWVIKING]

Would sock puppets be allowed ?

[greenban]

I think it is a good idea.

From my perspective, we can let the silliness rule and get back a DIS, DVC-CB flavor back, that is really what set that sub apart to me.

I would want the profanity filters in place. This is Disney based and I don't need profanity to spice up my enjoyment of Disney (Hmmmmm maybe I just disclosed the theming of the fifth park!)

While moderatorless seems okay, perhaps we could still 'report' inappropriate posts to someone (Spamers/Pornos/Visciously Rude Personal Attacks), or have a moderator of questionable judgement and maturity, if such a user exists :Pssst: :bagovermy .

I think we as a community can police ourselves on one 'adult' thread.

The above list is my wish list as I am typing, not a list of demands, and probably not too coherent. Certainly there should be a concensus.

As far as digging our heels in and being petulant, we gain nothing. This is clearly a peace offering by our Administrator.

Lets moveforward gracefully.

JMHO.

-Tony

[KNWVIKING]

Cleavage wouldn't count as porn, would it ?

[administrator]

IF you do decide to go with this unmoderated Comm Board, what happens to the current Community Board?

Nothing. It stays right where it is.

And as I said, people would not *have* to participate in UCH. It would merely be within their scope to make such a decision. People don't go into bars if they don't want to.

One way in which it would make it easier is for the mods: if a thread gets a little "hot," the posters can be warned that if they don't behave in a more appropriate manner, the thread will be moved to UCH (rather than closed). It puts the mods in the role of "heavy" less frequently.

[greenban]

Nothing. It stays right where it is.

And as I said, people would not *have* to participate in UCH. It would merely be within their scope to make such a decision. People don't go into bars if they don't want to.

One way in which it would make it easier is for the mods: if a thread gets a little "hot," the posters can be warned that if they don't behave in a more appropriate manner, the thread will be moved to UCH (rather than closed). It puts the mods in the role of "heavy" less frequently.

Kim:

Could we call it the Other Unmoderated Community Hall instead of UCH. I feel OUCH has more of a certain savoir faire, a je ne say plume.......

And of course I'm sure we all agree a little man boob cleavage for Viking would be appropriate over on OUCH!

-Tony

[Rozzie]

I would want the profanity filters in place. This is Disney based and I don't need profanity to spice up my enjoyment of Disney (Hmmmmm maybe I just disclosed the theming of the fifth park!)

While moderatorless seems okay, perhaps we could still 'report' inappropriate posts to someone (Spamers/Pornos/Visciously Rude Personal Attacks), or have a moderator of questionable judgement and maturity, if such a user exists :Pssst: :bagovermy .


I think these are good ideas Tony. Who needs a F bomb to discuss Disney? Well, oops, that was me at the POP check in line, but no one heard that. :grrrrr:

Seriously, good post Tony. :)

[TW1]

I've enough drama in my life right now, I'll respectfully ignore an unmoderated thread, thank you for asking though.

Now, if it offered an "Ultimte Babe Thread" well then, just maybe, umm, well, on second thought, the guy in the next cubicle was escorted off campus a few weeks ago and the rumors included something like this, so no, I better stick with my first thought and thankfully decline.

[greenban]

Oh and greenban POLLS:

They always crack me up!

-Tony

[idratherbeinwdw]

I like the idea of trying it. If it's a disaster we can always decide to remove the board.

[carolina_yankee]

I voted "Maybe." I think it's a good idea - but I also think that the internet encourages childish behavior and half-thought, disrespectful - even dehumanizing - comments that often do more harm than good. And I'm not citing Disney boards, but a few church-related blogs I visit!

I'm game for a try. I think I'd like to see a clear policy that persons are not to be attacked or demeaned, but that opionions can be fair game. We have to be able to say "I thank that idea is a crock of . . ." without saying "You're so full of . . ."

I look at the RADP usegroup as a point of reference: in general, only the trolls are unbehaved, while the rest may have disagreements they still manage to keep a community environment.

Dirk

[KNWVIKING]

It's very hard sometimes to distinguish an attack from sarcasm.

Calling someone "childish" is an attack. Saying someone needs crayons to write a sentence is sarcasm. They both say the same thing.

[RweTHEREyet]

I voted maybe. We could always give it a try, and if i just doesn't work, it could be shut down.

[dvcconvert]

It would be, in other words, very similar to a usenet group. My only restrictions would be the following:


Maybe I'm thinking a bit slow tonight -- but how does a usenet group with restrictions differ from a moderated board?

I don't disagree with the restrictions you list - but those would apply to a mod board right? Again, maybe I'm not grasping the concept. I'm confused if the only real difference would be that the un-mod'ed board would permit "personal attacks", despite the fact that the participates would have to agree to enter...I suspect some would not understand in advance that such 'attacks' would be 'permitted'.
:idontgeti

[tjkraz]

I think it's a bad idea.

An "anything goes" forum would just encourage boorish behavior that would inevitably spill over into other forums. It would probably create even more problems for moderators in the long run.

Giving it a "test drive" sounds good in theory, but what happens if you end up pulling the rug out from people who have developed a liking for the place? Anyone remember what happened when another message board made the decision to eliminate a certain group of people enjoyed very much?

[AFMom]

Hadn't thought of that - I voted maybe-
But maybe what we need here are more clear rules as to what is and isn't appropriate on the regular boards? I have no idea what the issues are behind all of this- but perhaps this need arised out of a misunderstanding as to what is acceptable to post on the regular forums? I guess I don't log on often enough to see the posts before they have to be edited or deleted - but so far I've never seen anything here that has caught me as being "off" in anyway.....

[athenna]

I voted maybe, because I think it depends...Call me cheesy, but I like that we all get along, and there isn't a lot of debating back & forth...I like that we are friendly:thumbsup:

[Blue&Gold]

Not sure I see a need, but I also don't hang on the "community" board very much. Doubt I'd join in the fray...

[gopherit]

Taking a page from Parenting 101 - if the kids aren't behaving, leaving them for the weekend in the house with the stereo, the car, a full fridge and liquor cabinet isn't going to inspire them to head to church. No-holds barred just makes for an uglier fight.

In short - wouldn't use it. Haven't been edited yet, so don't feel a need to go "uncensored". The anonymity of the 'net emboldens people enough as it is. Why, KNWViking is actually a Franciscan monk - and look at him now. Do we really want to encourage him further? :scary:

But seriously, the fact that I don't know see the need for such a board tells me that I must not be on the "regular" moderated boards enough as it is, LOL, much less a non-mod board. Do with it whatever you will.

[Niki]

Although I never felt like I couln't say what I wanted on this board, I am always in favor of free speach. This isn't a board where I have even thought about talking politics, religion or any other taboo subject, but I am all about freedom of speech. If the new forum opened up into this, I'm sure I would be all over that.

I also think that adults can have different opinions, sometimes opinions on the other end of the spectrum, and still remain fast friends. I have very different opinions from some of my closest mates. Often time, we have discussed heated issues, in a very heated fashion, and one of us has come away with a different perspective. A great example. DH is a bleeding heart liberal. I used to be a death penalty loving, gun toting conservative chick. After being together 18 years, and having many debates to end all debates, DH is still liberal but a fiscal conservative. I no longer want to kill criminals and have become quite the tree hugger.

My point being, this is one more way to get to know each other :handshake our Disney likes as well as dislikes, and agree to disagree.

[gopherit]

Hmmm, after giving it thought, I realized - I have no idea what currently gets moderated! So maybe that's a "maybe" vote for me, instead of a flat "no thank ya".

After all - if it gets moderated, then we don't see it. And it's hard to miss what we aren't seeing. Then again, maybe it's not something I'd miss anyway - but I can't make that decision blind. I don't think I've ever been "moderated" (if that's even a verb). How often is "moderation" occurring on the Board?

Before we "raise the threshold", I would need to know how often the alarm is getting tripped, so to speak.

[KNWVIKING]

Why, KNWViking is actually a Franciscan monk - and look at him now. Do we really want to encourage him further? :scary:

Naw.... only been to Ca. once, never got any further north than L.A.

[carolina_yankee]

Hmmm, after giving it thought, I realized - I have no idea what currently gets moderated! So maybe that's a "maybe" vote for me, instead of a flat "no thank ya".

After all - if it gets moderated, then we don't see it. And it's hard to miss what we aren't seeing. Then again, maybe it's not something I'd miss anyway - but I can't make that decision blind. I don't think I've ever been "moderated" (if that's even a verb). How often is "moderation" occurring on the Board?

Before we "raise the threshold", I would need to know how often the alarm is getting tripped, so to speak.

Gopher - for the most part, moderating is more about putting threads in their proper boxes. Occasionally, a guide will bring a topic back to the OP's point if the thread stays too far. Those are pretty innocuous things that no one really objects to.

There are topics that can get heated rather quickly, from sports teams, to religion, to politics, to "that other board." Those are topics we generally stay away from here, and the few times people have strayed into them, it's not always been pretty. An unmoderated community board would allow for those kinds of topics. I can see a use for that - friends like to talk about all sorts of things.

However, my understanding of Kim's suggestion is that it wouldn't be a place where personality conflicts can be duked it - we're still about moderating to protect personal dignity.

At the end of the day, I think a UCH would be a test of the maturity level of the board members - and it's not something that everyone has to see, since you have to opt into it.

Dirk

[PoohsPal]

I went with no. :jawdroppi Yeah, there's a shocker. I don't like conflict and this just seems to open too many doors and create too many grey areas.

Although I could choose to stay away, I'd be afraid of things spilling into other areas unintentionally. JMO. I'm just more aof a :grouphug: kind of person.

[nono]

I didn't vote.

I can (and sometimes do) swear like a sailor, but don't feel the need to do so in cyberprint.

I could resort-bash, politic-bash, etc., but what's the point? I come here to goof around and have some fun, and learn stuff about one of my favorite vacationing activities.

BUT, my life is what it is. It's mine. Not anyone else's...so that's why I didn't vote. If folks feel really want/need this space, then I didn't want to vote "no." I might even venture into the fray if said space becomes available. I just can't promise that I'll do anything any different than I do now...make jokes and sometimes provide info and generally smile, even if I'm ticking someone off with my post. Life is short people. And I should know, as I'm a short person. :ale:

[KNWVIKING]

On another thread, a poster commented that the Iraqi war was another Viet Nam. I replied that it wasn't..... and stopped right there. An unmoderated board can allow for intense conversation on topics vastly more important than bus driver rumors.

Having the board will mean absolutely nothing to those that never care to use it. It will mean a great deal to those who want to have meaningfull discussion about real world issues.

[David Welty]

Having the board will mean absolutely nothing to those that never care to use it. It will mean a great deal to those who want to have meaningfull discussion about real world issues.

Like the bedspreads at OKW.

[Blue&Gold]

I am a Sailor and, well, can curse like one. But I can't see the need to do so while discussing the queue length at new Nemo ride at Epcot...

What I question is how do you stop the unmoderated tenor from spilling over to the "vanilla" boards? The regulars here may all "know" each other, and many of you do actually know each other in real life, but to a certain extent the boards here maintain an anonymous civility that you might not get otherwise. Almost like the lines for the attractions in the parks---I almost always strike up a conversation, help answer questions from folks on their first trip, whatever. As long as the only thing we talk about is Disney-related we can maintain that civility.

Frankly, what some call "resort bashing" others could call "constructive criticisim..." Discussing rental policies is a legitimate addressal of an issue that effects a product into which I have sunk a significant chunk of $$$... I suppose I am moving more in favor of the board, but imagine I'll just steer clear of threads that are off the DVC reservation.

[KNWVIKING]

Like the bedspreads at OKW.

Excellent example.

[KNWVIKING]

I've thought about the "bleed over" affect and can understand where some people cannot make a seperation between the two. Earlier, I asked about sock puppets for this very reason. However.....

.... I would like to think that most of the regular posters here have grown beyond the annonimity of the internet and have built genuine friendships. I doubt that we would jeopardize those relationships simply to make a point ( funny....we'll treat a member better than our spouses ).

"Unmoderated" doesn't have to mean "a place to use foul language". While I'm certain the occassional "F" bomb will be dropped it doesn't mean a thread will sound like a Richard Pryer album from the '70s.

My feeling is simply this: If ya can't take the heat, stay outta the kitchen.

Also remember: Chances are you'll someday meet me in WDW. Be carefull who you piss off.

[doombuggy]

I voted yesterday but did not post in this thread. I voted no. Like a couple of others have mentioned, I am afraid it will spill over. Or worse, I'll carry a grudge (meaning something like "I hate that person" thoughts in my head, every time I see them post). I get this feeling over on the DIS if I go into any DVC forum and see a post by a certain "webmaster" that several of you love to hate....while he did not do anything to me personally, he behaved very badly to a close friend of mine who is one of THE nicest people...I can't help but see red....I get protective...
I really go over there only to go on the cast board and that's about it. I will hit the collector's forum every once & awhile, but I stay away from the know-it-alls on the rumors board.....it's just not a nice place. I get the same vibe from WDWMagic.

But NOT here...love it here!

As a mod on another board, I feel fortunate to not have to "police" too much. I don't think I have ever even suggested that someone be banned; and when someone said something (recently) that really bothered me as a person, I reported it to the EZ OP (the lovely ghost1000). I won't post anymore in that thread and that guy better stay away from me at the Pirates event, but I digress...

Whatever works for the board, as long as we all still can have a .......:grouphug:

[crazywig]

My feeling is simply this: If ya can't take the heat, stay outta the kitchen.



i am on a board that has a forum called 'the Kitchen' and it is for exactly the same thing that is being proposed here. political discussions mostly, or opinions on recent newsworthy events. it gets heated but it is loosely moderated, with admin only stepping in when personal bashing comes into play. everyone knows 'kitchen' stuff stays in the kitchen.

it nearly came to blows at election time, but it's been up and running for years. since i don't especially enjoy debating i stay out of the kitchen :D.

so i vote yes if people want it.

[Colorado Belle]

I haven't voted yet. I'm not sure that I understand how it might operate, so I can't figure out if it would become a weird 'carry over' sitch as some here have raised a concern.

Would it be like one of the Forums: The Kitchen Sink or Boy, is it ever hot in here?.
I remember hearing about a forum like that over on the DIS that got so politically hot that it might have been closed????? Or was that a rumor? For those of you who remember, did the 'debates' on that board carry over into the regular board?

On one hand, I like debates. I feel that I learn from people who disagree with me on things like Viet Nam and Iraq. I feel that I can separate the subject of discussion from the people who share, respectfully, their opinion. As Viking mentioned, he stated his opinion to my opinion that our sending our kids to Iraq felt the same as sending our boys (and my boyfriend) to Viet Nam. It wasn't something that I chose to debate with Viking..he just stated his view that it wasn't the same in his opinion, tho I guess on a debate board I might have asked him what he felt was different or elaborated on what I felt were things that seemed the same. Debate CAN be productive and a learning experience...but not unless people WANT it to be.

So it seems that the real concern is, if I understand the 'debate' re this vote, is will people start to rant and name call (I really hate namecalling and have a PM in my message box that has no less than 16 epithets directed at me) on this new forum and then the negative feelings carry over in snide remarks and namecalling PMs over here? (I don't have an answer to that, but it seems that this is the main concern.)

Is there any other board that has an active 'debate' thread that maybe we could look at to see how its handled? If I voted yes or maybe on this, I'd have to encourage that a sticky be posted about NAME CALLING...and examples given of what that is and other examples of a more appropriate way to express your opinion about a topic without bashing the person. But until I have a little more info, I 'm uncomfortable voting either way on this.

NSCB (no siggie colorado belle :teleport: :coolcar: :huh: :wearenumb )

[CRSNDSNY]

I thought about this for a bit, but then eventually voted no.

I'd be afraid that some of the behavior in a forum like that would leak over to other forums. Perhaps bad blood developed between some members here, I'm afraid we'd end up inadvertantly seeing that elsewhere around MO.

[lllovell]

I think it is a very bad idea. Not because I think that debate is bad - I love debate, but I have not really ever seen what I consider to be a good debate on the internet. At some point, someone (usually not even the supporters of the main points) always seems to resort to name calling and less than stellar behavior. Also, unless the people that will be responsible for this section are not involved in day to day postings, there is a huge change that they would lose their objectivity.

It has already happened here in some of the areas that mentioned....sports comes quickly to mind. I would love to think that everyone had cool heads and could state their case with passion and facts but not with simply emotion and most of the areas that people tend to "debate" are ones where emotions take over.

I can recall so many troubled conversations about slippery slopes in the past concerning this forum and to me, this one is the biggest danger of being that to date.

Mar and Dirk make excellent points that if things didn't go well, then it could be taken away, but Tim's comment about that being how we all ended up here struck home solidly.

Seems like it should work, but in the end it never will. Either you wont have debate any "different" than already sprinkled throughout the boards or it will become a free for all no holds barred battleground. Think that will promote a spirit of unity?

Laura

[ndrabble]

just out of curiosity, what would keep administrators and moderators from deleting any post that are of a different opinion ... or are against sock puppets? And we have stalkers?? How come no one ever stalks me? It's my PopTart breath, isnt it?

[bavaria]

ndrabble, I'd be happy to stalk you if it makes you feel better - in fact, I have a trip to NO coming up in a few weeks.... ;)

Back to the question... I didn't respond initially as I had to consider why I visit this board. Essentially, it is for DVC/Disney information, but also to connect with others who share the same interests. This website meets my 'warm and fuzzy' needs, as well as gives me information about Disney and DVC.

If I am feeling cranky or mischevious, I usually visit 'another' board as I am not such a nice person there all the time. Sometimes I even feel guilty for being sharp with someone over the internet.

Now, I love a good debate. In fact, one of my majors was Political Science. But I also know that it can be dangerous to discuss topics such as politics and religion, and I keep those discussions amongst the few friends and coworkers who I can rely on to provide throught provoking discussion without becoming personally involved in the debate.

I actually prefer to keep some things 'unknown' around here. It may actually impact my enjoyment of the relationships I have formed here to learn too much detail about personal thoughts. If I were looking for political debate, I would seek out a different website.

But I have enjoyed reading the various opinions on the subject; if the board does become reality, I suppose that I won't visit it very often.

[dvcconvert]

This website meets my 'warm and fuzzy' needs, as well as gives me information about Disney and DVC.

If I am feeling cranky or mischevious, I usually visit 'another' board as I am not such a nice person there all the time. Sometimes I even feel guilty for being sharp with someone over the internet.

Now, I love a good debate. In fact, one of my majors was Political Science.
But I have enjoyed reading the various opinions on the subject; if the board does become reality, I suppose that I won't visit it very often.

Well put Bavaria! - you had a PS major?...me too! :)

[kathleena]

It's a no from me. I just see no point to it - give a small number of people here an opportunity to bash something without being moderated? I think that can happen all over the internet.

I guess the bottom line for me is - will it really enhance the original purpose of this board? Providing a place of community to talk DVC. I'm not sure. Don't seem so to me.

[jiggerj]

. This website meets my 'warm and fuzzy' needs, as well as gives me information about Disney and DVC.


I like the "warm and fuzzy" feeling of MouseOwners too! And would like it to stay "warm and fuzzy" :)

[Rash]

Can I just have my own forum?

[skelster]

I was going to vote yes in defense of free speech and remembering one instance where a moderator stepped into a thread because things were going off topic. I didn't really see the need to step in and it surprised me. That being said, I had to vote no for three reasons.

First, If I want to discuss other issues like politics, I go to a political board:computers . This is a DVCand all things Disney board (and my favorite place on the web.)

Second, I already don't have enough time to follow all the discussions I want to. The unmoderated board would be one more I would want to follow because I respect the opinions of just about everyone here & generally like to be enlightened by all of you on things I don't know well.

Lastly, I am always in a happy place :jumpingbe when I am reading the posts here, and if people are being mean I miss it completely...I always take it as sarcasm or quirkiness. I just don't see what would possibly be different there.

[ndrabble]

I once had my own forum... but nobody ever came. Sure, that meant more PopTarts for me. THen one day, I started bashing myself... and, as the moderator of the DrabbleBabble Board, I had to kick myself out. I waited to be reinstated, but I forgot ... Now, I cant even find the board... So sad....

[Disneyfreak]

I had to vote no too.

If Disney is the happiest place on earth, I think that Mouseowners should be too.

We do not want to lose the MAGIC!:jumpingbe

[iankh]

Maybe give it a trial period of 30 to 60 days? Then assess if it should remain.