More STOLport DVC rumors...

[tjkraz]

Courtesy of MousePlanet.com:

Rumors have been flying for a little while now about a possible new Disney Vacation Club resort to be located near the STOLport. (That's the now-decommissioned Short Take-Off and Landing airport across World Drive from the Magic Kingdom parking lot). The rumors have indicated the possibility that the resort would actually be located with a stop on the Epcot monorail beam.

Lending support to that rumor is the fact that there have been a number of surveys being done in the STOLport area recently. Further support comes from some drawings of a proposed new DVC resort near the Contemporary Resort that have recently surfaced, showing a 16-floor resort.

In my mind at least one aspect of this report helps add some credence to this rumor, and that's the mention of the 16-floor resort building.

Big? Yes.

Necessary? YES!

Speaking as someone who has more than 3 years of experience in dealing with the DVC Contemporary rumor mill, one of the aspects that has always bothered me is the size. I can't see DVC EVER constructing resorts on scale with BCV or VWL again. Sure it allowed them to leverage common facilities that were already in place at those resorts, thus eliminating some expense. But economies of scale tell us that it's a lot cheaper to build rooms in a 1000+ room esort than in a 130 room resort.

DVC needed a project with a great design and a great location that they could continue to sell for many, many years to come. Perhaps this is it...

[Rozzie]

Wowser Tim, 16 stories!!!!!!!!


Maybe, just maybe, all the "bigger is bad" folks will have to sing a different tune when the new DVC flagship is built. :laughing:


I wonder how many villa's will fit in a 16 story building? This is very exciting indeed! :yes:

[CRSNDSNY]

Can you even imagine the view from the top floors of a 16 story building like this??!!

I still think that if this is true it's going to be at least 2-3 years before it is announced.

[CRSNDSNY]

Ok...I was just thinking (yes, since that one minute from my previous post LOL). To put this in visual perspective, how many stories is the Swan and/or Dolphin?

[carolina_yankee]

The Swan tops at 12 stories, and the Dolphin at 27, according to Allearsnet. I didn't realize the Dolphin was that much higher than the Swan - though that's at the peak of the triangle.

Contemporary is 15 stories right? So this would be about the same height.

I think Tim has some good logic about this rumor. Unles DVC want to totally swamp the smaller park-based resorts at the 7 month window with all the new owners at SSR and elsewhere, they have to come up with something that is jsut as, or more appealing. A large resort on the Epcot beam would ease the pressure to get into VWL, BWV, and BCV, making it more likely all members can find rooms at 7 months at the more popular resorts most of the year.

Another plus for DVC: imagine the advertising potential as millions of guests drive past a fantastic monorail resort on their way to the MK that the could likely only get into by spending huge $$$$ or through a DVC purchse. I suspect memberhsip would soar.

Dirk

[Rozzie]

Another plus for DVC: imagine the advertising potential as millions of guests drive past a fantastic monorail resort on their way to the MK that the could likely only get into by spending huge $$$$ or through a DVC purchse. I suspect memberhsip would soar.

Dirk


I know the first thing I wondered to myself is how much money were talking. :bugeyed:

I wonder if we will see a general spike in resales from other resorts when/if it is announced. Another thing that just popped into this empty brain of mine----I wonder if CRV MF's will be $$$ to help cover monorail operational costs. :scratchch

[carolina_yankee]

If you build a large enough resort, I don't think the MFs will be a problem. Economies of scale and all. Since the resort wouldn't have it's own monorail, the fees would have to apportioned across all users (TTC and Epcot in this case, as well as the resort) so that would help dilute the impact. Unless they have to add extra trains, which I doubt, the only additional costs would be staffing at the stop.

If they build this far out, I don't the resort would have any connection with the Contemporary. It would just be another MK area resort.

Dirk

[Rozzie]

good point Dirk. :sunny:


I am excited to hear your theory of it being disconnected from the CR theme. I wonder if they would do a different theme, what would it be??

I also wonder with it's size, if it will make it a realistic option to try for at the 7 month window. (i.e., me saving $$$ and not having to add on to stay there, LOL)

[Colorado Belle]

While this is certainly a possibility, it begs the question of what proportion of development costs goes into actual units vs the grounds and amenities.

I always fancied that it was the 'other than rooms' cost which was the most expensive cost. If that is true, then reworking the tennis court area, however small, would just be adding rooms and therefore much cheaper than building a whole new resort.

I wonder if 'keeping it small' also keeps demand and prices higher?
Tho I admit Tim, that the thought of a whole new resort on the monorail system would tickle my fancy!

[RweTHEREyet]

And I wonder how the monorail route would work. Wouldn't you first have to head towards EPCOT and then come back to the TTC?

[tjkraz]

I still think that if this is true it's going to be at least 2-3 years before it is announced.

I'm not sure they could do that from a practical standpoint. If we really are talking about a brand new resort, construction time will be a minimum of 3 years. SSR reused a lot of infrastructure from the Disney Institute and it still took 2 1/2 years to open.

There's no way Disney could keep something like this under wraps for so long. Reports seem to indicate that SSR is 2/3 sold out now. That means they may well run out of points in another 2 years or so. Construction has to begin soon on a new resort. Its announcement may hurt SSR sales, but DVC can manage that impact via promotional incentives and the reality that it's going to be fairly easy to get a room at a 16 story DVC resort even at 7 mos.

While this is certainly a possibility, it begs the question of what proportion of development costs goes into actual units vs the grounds and amenities.

On many levels I'm sure that's true. However, if we're talking about a DVC resort that's 1000+ rooms, that makes it larger than 3 or 4 current DVC resorts combined. Even looking at the CR land set aside, I'm hard pressed to visualize more than 400 or so DVC rooms there. The current Garden Wing has less than 300 standard rooms (studio size.) Even if they go higher and expand into the tennis courts, it would be tough to get many rooms with a combination of much larger 1Bs and 2Bs, not to mention those profitable Grand Villas.

The CR would need big-time enhancements to the pool area to compare to the other DVCs, plus more land earmarked for a quiet pool in the DVC neighborhood.

In the end, my point is this: It probably makes more sense to build a new resort from the ground up if it's larger than separate construction projects at, say, the CR and AKL combined.

I also wonder with it's size, if it will make it a realistic option to try for at the 7 month window.

I think that's a given. For the sake of argument, if we put BWV, VWL and BCV in Tier 1 due solely to their proximity to a theme park, they represent about 28-30% of the total number of DVC rooms. Build 1000 rooms on the monorail line and that percentage jumps up to over 50%. :D

I wonder if we will see a general spike in resales from other resorts when/if it is announced.

Could be. Actually one of my first thoughts was what it would do to resales at the likes of BCV which are currently at a premium. If we assume this resort would open around 2009 or 2010, BCV contracts would only have 32 years left. If DVC's target market is families in their late-20s to early-30s, I can't see them paying a premium price for a contract that will end around retirement age.

One other comment of my own: For a long time I have also questioned why DVC would consider building a resort in a location like this when sales are so strong for a resort like SSR that isn't connected to a theme park. That's another question for which I think there is finally an answer: Bonnet Creek. If DVC had cornered the market in on-site timeshare accommodations, they could build whatever they want and people could either take it or leave it. But within the last couple of years competition moved in next door and it is only getting larger. Now DVC has a real motivation to prove that they have the most desirable timeshare on property--and it needs to go beyond EMH and resort shopping deliveries.

By the time this is all resolved, DVC members may owe a lot of thanks to that farmer who refused to sell his land to Walt all those years ago. ;)

[carolina_yankee]

I am excited to hear your theory of it being disconnected from the CR theme. I wonder if they would do a different theme, what would it be??
I wouldn't speculate on a theme because it could be anything. There were several other resorts originally planned for the 7 seas lagoon so the could resurrect one of those theme, or else do something entirely different. I'm suspicioning it won't be a wilderness theme!!

As for it being disconnected from the CR, that's pretty straightforward. The STOL runaway site is nowhere near the Contemporary in resort terms. It's probably 1/2 mile to a mile away.

And I wonder how the monorail route would work. Wouldn't you first have to head towards EPCOT and then come back to the TTC?
That's a good point, but they could easily construct the platform so that you ascend on the TTC direction side. It just means you have to walk under and go up. I don't think it would be stop through the resort, rather on the grounds because of this.

Otherwise, it would be pretty much of a hassle to get to the MK from this resort (board at resort, monorail stop at Epcot, then long ride to TTC, switch to MK monorail).

Of course, it's the opposite problem if you're destination is Epcot. I guess they'll have to build platforms from both directions. You already have to go down and back up at MK and TTC, so it's not unfeasible to do that at a resort.

Dirk

[withdisneyspirit]

Wow! Are we having fun today or what! I find this current talk very exciting, more so than most other DVC rumor talk!!! :D

[tjkraz]

Otherwise, it would be pretty much of a hassle to get to the MK from this resort (board at resort, monorail stop at Epcot, then long ride to TTC, switch to MK monorail).


Ironically that's pretty much the same argument I've always used AGAINST expanding the monorail line.

At the very least, they would have to create additional 'loops' which would service a group of resorts plus theme park in the same vicinity. Want to go to a theme park on another loop? Hello, TTC! And with the exponential increases in traffic at the TTC due to more resorts / parks being serviced, get used to waiting in line. :(

Last year we were staying at the BW and wanted to visit the CR and rent the boats. We weren't in any big hurry, so we chose to walk through Epcot and take the monorail the rest of the way. From the time we arrived at the Epcot monorail station it took us another 45 minutes to reach the CR.

The monorail may be Disney's most romantic form of transportation, but I think people are too quick to discount the efficiency of direct point-to-point bus service.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread...

I think they would have to go with the dual stops. It wouldn't be too "magical" taking the monorail at Epcot closing time if you actually drove PAST your resort, stopped off at the TTC, then headed back to your resort to finally disembark. :thumbsway

[Tricia1972]

Personally I would love to see this resort built, just because I love the idea of a monorail resort. It would even, initially, tempt me to purchase an additional contract there.

[Blue&Gold]

Can you even imagine the view from the top floors of a 16 story building like this??!!


Can you imagine the complaining when folks buy into this place and get a second floor room with a view of the scrub pine to the west/southwest! :crymeariv

Sorry for the negative vibes... Post just made me think of all the view parsing at BWV/BCV and SSR. What will bring greater comment in the future, the "dumpster" or Fort Wilderness?

I think Tim is onto something with his Bonnet Creek reference. We're considering an add-on and have heavily researched the Fairfield Bonnet Creek property as an alternative to SSR.

Assuming this new resort would me more than a concrete tower that just happens to be on a monorail, we will buy.

As to the Monorail route issue... Why assume you'd take the monorail to MK from this location? I believe an earlier "leaked" graphic indicated a waterway connection to this resort from Bay Lake... Monorail to Epcot or the TTC, boat or bus to MK, Bus to DS & AK.

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=28.404268~-81.570575&style=h&lvl=15&scene=3930019

[Gaston]

I am wondering if this an alternative to the rumored Hawaii, or CA DVC resorts. Or possibly part of the the CA and Hawaii resorts with west coast cruise ships in the "think big" rumors we have heard? What if Disney is creating a new WDW resort along with CA,Hawaii, and ships??? Now that is thinking big.

[cobbler]

By the time this is all resolved, DVC members may owe a lot of thanks to that farmer who refused to sell his land to Walt all those years ago. ;)


Ok, this I don't understand, brief history lesson please???

[RweTHEREyet]

I think he is saying that because the property that Bonnet Creek now sits on was not sold to Disney, that Bonnet Creek is forcing DVC to perhaps come up with bigger and better things because Bonnet Creek is in such close proximity and has such wonderful access to WDW. That is my guess.

[Blue&Gold]

The Bonnet Creek area is roughly 484 acres, if I recall correctly. It sits on the "edge" of WDW but inside I-4. The access road is off E. Buena Vista, opposite Epcot's Backstage Lane spur.

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=28.362355~-81.534672&style=h&lvl=15&scene=3949997

Switch to "Bird's eye" view to see the Fairfield development, it doesn't show in the aerial shot (old photos in database).

The land was not part of the original WDW land purchase, though Walt wanted it. It has only recently become available for development, Fairfield has a timeshare, and Hilton and Wyndham (a partner of Fairfield) recently announced two large hotel properties.

Curious note is that the "Reedy Creek Development Corp" (Disney's governmental arm for WDW Resort) has to support this development by providing road access, access to utilities and infrastructure, etc. As you drive down E. Buena Vista, you'll see the Bonnet Creek sign---same style, size, etc as all the Disney property signs---but a different color (think theirs is orange vice the red background).

Tim's point (that I agree with) is that the Fairfield development is really quite nice and is a direct competitor to SSR. Previously, the larger off-site timeshares like Vistana, Fairfield Cypress Point and others REALLY have been off-site. Now Fairfield has a competitive development right across the street from Epcot. So, DVC needs to convincingly grab the WDW timeshare "upper hand" by building another market-grabbing development in the heart of WDW.

[ErinC]

Call me the voice of negativity here, but wouldn't this resort have some really yucky views? The MK parking lot, roads on three sides, and the racetrack. If you could actually access bay lake, wouldn't it be coming really close to VWL and Fort Wilderness? I would much rather see the Contemporary location chosen, as the newest DVC. I don't even care for the theme or look of the Contemporary and I still would prefer it, to the runway location. Label me as not excited at all with this rumor. I don't want to be sitting on my woods balcony view at VWL and looking at 16 stories of some other theme resort.

[Rozzie]

I don't want to be sitting on my woods balcony view at VWL and looking at 16 stories of some other theme resort.

Oh Erin, you mean you wouldn't enjoy the new view you can reserve at VWL---

ErinC is confirmed for the 16 story concrete slab runway structure view



I have yet to enjoy VWL, but you brought up a good point Erin. :scratchch

[lllovell]

Can you see the Contemporary now? It is in the background of your picture, but it is only viewable from the rooftop? IF that is the case, isn't it possible that the height of the other resorts will keep them from being able to see something 16 stories high as well?

What I mean is that if you can't really see "up" because of the WL design itself, then you still wont be able to see. I know you can't see much at SSR and OKW where I have stayed because of their heights - - - would it be the same at the other resorts? (they are differing styles so I really don't know the answer to this, but I did think that WL was surrounded on 3 sides by dense forest).

Laura

[tjkraz]

Call me the voice of negativity here, but wouldn't this resort have some really yucky views? The MK parking lot, roads on three sides, and the racetrack. If you could actually access bay lake, wouldn't it be coming really close to VWL and Fort Wilderness? I would much rather see the Contemporary location chosen, as the newest DVC. I don't even care for the theme or look of the Contemporary and I still would prefer it, to the runway location. Label me as not excited at all with this rumor. I don't want to be sitting on my woods balcony view at VWL and looking at 16 stories of some other theme resort.

Someone else had a much better map but I can't find it. So here's a quickie one I slapped together:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c328/tjkraz/STOLport.jpg

The RED is the location of the CR.
BLUE is the Wilderness Lodge
ORANGE is the STOLport landing strip.
PINK is the area in which a canal was to be added to extend Bay Lake.

I was trying to find a reference to show how far the CR is from WL, when suddenly I found one right in your signature! :) The proposed site of this DVC resort is actually a little further from the WL than the CR is, and the CR doesn't appear to be a big eyesore.

Seems to me the trees grow pretty tall in that area, too. I've never seen the woods view at WL, but it seems like the trees would have to be trimmed back pretty far from the building in order to offer a view of the distant skyline.

As for the roads, most of the infrastructure lies to the west of the proposed site. I think it's a given that they would not have balconies facing in that direction. Sure there would probably be other roads to help service the resort, but I don't hear anyone complaining about the proximity of the CR to World Drive. When you're up that high you can't even see the road below.

I'll say this much--any floors above the treeline facing north would have a great view of Wishes at night. No, it's not as close as the resorts surrounding the lagoon, but the Poly and GF don't rise 150+ feet in the sky either. ;)

[jimfitz]

I think this would be an excellent site. The views of MK Wishes would be great and if they can build a monorail stop, that would just be icing on the cake. I would take CR, AKL, or this site. I would actually take any site, as long as it was on WDW property and not Hawaii or DL.

[jimfitz]

Someone else had a much better map but I can't find it.

Tim,

Is this the image your looking for??

http://home.comcast.net/~deborah.vaughan/disney_DVC.gif

[RweTHEREyet]

If this comes to be and they do make this a monorail resort, I would buy points here. Someone already asked the question about how many would sell contracts, and I might sell one of mine to buy at this location. Otherwise, I don't think there would be much chance of getting a ressie here at the 7 month window.

[tjkraz]

Otherwise, I don't think there would be much chance of getting a ressie here at the 7 month window.

Oh, I don't think that's true at all...particularly if the resort really is 16 stories with hundreds of rooms. Even tiny little BCV with the great pool and 5 min walk to EPCOT still hosts a LOT of DVC members who book at 7 mos or less.

There will always be people who don't book their Home at 7 mos, people who want to stay elsewhere, people who don't use their points, etc.

Is this the image your looking for??

Yup, I think that's it. Thanks, Jim.

Now that I look at it again, notice how massive the property is in comparison to WL toward the top. You could fit all of WL on that land 4 or 5 times over. I wonder what they could have in mind to fill all of that real estate.

You gotta love the rumor mill. :D

[RweTHEREyet]

I dunno, being on the monorail route and all, I think it might take a while before those ressies were available. Having an 11-month advantage would make it so you didn't have to worry about it. And even though you can get into BCV during some times of the year, there are even more times that you cannot.

[jimfitz]

I dunno, being on the monorail route and all, I think it might take a while before those ressies were available. Having an 11-month advantage would make it so you didn't have to worry about it. And even though you can get into BCV during some times of the year, there are even more times that you cannot.

I think the monorail is important, but I still prefer a bus to the front ok MK.

I think the blue in the pic is actually the pool and the line to bay lake is actually a waterslide. Get your suits!!! :ROTFL:

[RweTHEREyet]

That could make for a serious wedgie :yes:

[tjkraz]

I dunno, being on the monorail route and all, I think it might take a while before those ressies were available. Having an 11-month advantage would make it so you didn't have to worry about it. And even though you can get into BCV during some times of the year, there are even more times that you cannot.

BWV is probably a better comparison. The only times when it's really difficult to get into BWV are the weeks of Food & Wine fest (which wouldn't be a big factor for a MK resort) and the period between Thanksgiving and Christmas (which is tough all over.)

And I'm guessing this resort will be at least 2x the size of BWV. The bigger the resort, the easier it will be for non owners.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that BCV and BWV average 75% occupancy at the 7-month window. With just over 200 rooms at BCV, that leaves only about 50 occupancies for non-owners to book.

BWV has a little over 400 rooms, meaning there would be over 100 open rooms at 7 months.

If this proposed resort is more than 1000 rooms, then we're talking over 250 vacancies.

Sure we could argue that owners at this resort might be more inclined to stay at their Home than elsewhere. But more inclined than BCV owners? Than BWV owners?

I just don't think it's accurate to pretend that 100,000 DVC members around the world are rushing to the phone at 11 months to book their Home resort. I've stayed at BWV three times myself--twice in a hard-to-get Standard View room and one of those trips was booked on 4 months' notice.

IMO, the real impact of resort demand is not felt at 7 months--it's felt at 5 months and under. The resorts with small room counts and high demand get booked solid much earlier than some would like, but I don't see any evidence to suggest that even a resort like BCV is consistently booked solid at 7 months.

[RweTHEREyet]

I do think if this resort becomes a reality, that it will be far more exciting than SSR has seemed to most purchasers, and while I don't think they will only want to stay at the new resort, I think they will want to stay there before trying the older existing resorts. I also think that there are enough current owners that would jump at the chance to stay at a new MK resort, especially one on the monorail. I obviously haven't given this as much thought as you, but I still think it will be extremely difficult to get in there if it isn't your Home resort. If these folks purchase the new resort with the intent of staying in other places, it sure will make it tougher to get into the existing resorts without the Home resort advantage. But I am betting that the points may cost enough for the new place that the folks who purchase there will do so because they really want to stay there.

I guess I feel even stronger now that it is important to buy where you want to stay.

[Blue&Gold]

The sooner they announce, the better :worship:

[tiggerguy2000]

Not actually the first to buy but pvery close. I also have been waiting for this like others who have asked the question like why dont the mono rail go to the wilderness lodge.The answer they give is it cost to much:thumbsway With other time shares(Bonnet Creek) moving Oh so close to Disney resorts this will be what disney fans have been yelling for.Put me down for 250 points now.

tiggerguy

[carolina_yankee]

Tim,

Is this the image your looking for??

http://home.comcast.net/~deborah.vaughan/disney_DVC.gif

That's a very useful map - but I hope those waiting expectantly are very patient!! Can you imagine the amount of work that has to be done to creat the waterway, let alone build the resort, landscape, work in the monorail station, etc? I'd be suprised if they could get it open in any desirable state in less than 3-4 years.

Which means, what's the other resort coming online when SSR sells out? That should happen well before the rumored STOL resort could open.

Dirk

[aamove]

This would make me want to get more points sooner than we had planned. The monorail would make this worth the extra investment for us.

[tjkraz]

That's a very useful map - but I hope those waiting expectantly are very patient!! Can you imagine the amount of work that has to be done to creat the waterway, let alone build the resort, landscape, work in the monorail station, etc? I'd be suprised if they could get it open in any desirable state in less than 3-4 years.

Which means, what's the other resort coming online when SSR sells out? That should happen well before the rumored STOL resort could open.

Dirk

IF (and that's a big "if") there is truth to this rumor, I can't see there being another resort in the pipeline--at least not one at WDW. I agree with a timeline of roughly 3 years, but ANY resort would take that long to build. Even SSR, which leveraged a lot of infrastructure from the Disney Institute, took 2 1/2 years from announcement to opening. If this STOL project is THE resort of the future, I can't see them dedicating resources elsewhere.

I said that SSR was probably about 2 years away from selling out, but that's just a pie-in-the-sky guess. DVC can certainly alter their pricing and incentives to help manage demand for SSR points.

We're also not taking into account the natural drop in sales that would almost certainly accompany another announcement. Disney couldn't keep this under wraps for long. If they announce a monorail DVC resort this fall, with a scheduled opening of 2009, two years worth of SSR points could easily become three years with an expected drop in SSR sales.

If all else fails, they could just begin selling STOL points months before its scheduled opening. That's exactly what they did with SSR. If memory serves, BCV points ran out around September '03 while DVC began selling SSR in August '03 with the 50-year contracts. SSR effectively went on sale 10 months before the resort opened. And for about 7-8 of those months, SSR was the ONLY resort they had to sell (after they had exhausted remaining inventory at BCV, VB and a few new points at BWV.)

[Gaston]

On another website I mentioned this rumor, and a reply came back that the latest rumor he had heard was that the STOL was the last of six resorts in a 5 year plan. The others being Contemporary Condos (his words) North wing 200 units, Villas at Disney's Grand Californian, 200-300 units, Hilo Hawaii, Keystone Colorado, Villas at Animal Kingdom Lodge(based on the Grand Californian) and the 6th being STOL.
.

Which means, what's the other resort coming online when SSR sells out? That should happen well before the rumored STOL resort could open.

Dirk

[carolina_yankee]

On another website I mentioned this rumor, and a reply came back that the latest rumor he had heard was that the STOL was the last of six resorts in a 5 year plan. The others being Contemporary Condos (his words) North wing 200 units, Villas at Disney's Grand Californian, 200-300 units, Hilo Hawaii, Keystone Colorado, Villas at Animal Kingdom Lodge(based on the Grand Californian) and the 6th being STOL.
That's an interesting - and sensible - progression of units. The Contemporary North Wing makes more sense to me as the next resort than the STOL resort because no one has announced any dates for refurbishment of the North Wing. That indicates to me there's another plan afoot there.

GC, huh? Wouldl that be conversion of existing space or building new? I'm less familiar with the property out there and have always wondered what space they could use for a DVC. Since that would be the only DL DVC, I think they would be the ones to book solid at greater than 7 months!!

Alas, I wish VAK would come sooner rather than later, but that's just me!

Dirk

[Bruce]

Stop all this talking about new DVC resorts now!

I haven't even used my SSR points yet :boohoohoo , and now I am getting all excited about things that may never even happen! :bouncingp

When I purchased my points last month whilst at SSR, the DVC salesman told me that there were 4 or 5 resorts in the pipeline; ready to start when someone gave the final nod.

Well - he would say that ,wouldn't he?

[Blue&Gold]

On another website I mentioned this rumor, and a reply came back that the latest rumor he had heard was that the STOL was the last of six resorts in a 5 year plan. The others being Contemporary Condos (his words) North wing 200 units, Villas at Disney's Grand Californian, 200-300 units, Hilo Hawaii, Keystone Colorado, Villas at Animal Kingdom Lodge(based on the Grand Californian) and the 6th being STOL.

Keystone is interesting... Didn't Walt try/explore the idea of a Rocky Mountain resort that led to the development of "Country Bears" and "Frontierland?"

Any, and all of these resorts would enhance the value of the entire portfolio---whether you own at Vero, BCV, or SSR, etc. I personally hope they come on line with each resort having a 50 year term, rather than synching with SSR.

While Disney certainly can control the gem of the central Florida timeshare market, the other "majors" that have instant or widespread liesure brand awareness (Hilton, Sheraton, Marriott), have a huge advantage in the breadth of their collection. We obviously have committed to the Orlando-centric vacation world, but there have to be lots of prospective buyers (and lots of $$$) who pass on DVC because of the lack of in-system options.

Question for the CR vets out there... From the north wing/tennis court area, can't you walk directly to the MK entrance? Is it worth schlepping back to the tower to catch the monorail? Maybe they could open a Tomorrowland entrance just for us DVCers?

[carolina_yankee]

Question for the CR vets out there... From the north wing/tennis court area, can't you walk directly to the MK entrance? Is it worth schlepping back to the tower to catch the monorail? Maybe they could open a Tomorrowland entrance just for us DVCers?
Nooooo! Not the second entrance suggestion!! :bugeyed:

Actually, to be serious - the monorail isn't a great bet for getting to the MK since you have to go 3/4 of the way around the lagoon. I'd walk from the Northwing, and probably back again.

My issue around second entrances is that they destroy the "story" the park tries to tell. It's like coming into a movie halfway through it. There was an urban planner on the WDW Today podcast who described how the entrances are carefully designed so that the park experience unfolds in a uniforma and specific way for every guest.

At Epcot, you could enter via the International Gateway and never really get a sense of what Future World is about, while, if you enter through the main entrance as intended, you are drawn through Future World and then into World Showcase. The pavilions beckon you across the lagoon as the second chapter to the story that is Epcot.

Even worse, if you enter via the IG before 11 AM, you see part of the show (pavilions) but are told "don't look at us, we aren't open yet - go off into that direction and find soemthing to do, even though you can't see what's there."

Given the reality of the Epcot resorts, there is no alternative to the IG, but it did undo the consistency the Imagineers have always strived to achieve and was Walt's cardinal deisgn value. Of course, Grand Californian in Disney's California Adventure only makes the trend even worse, but at least you could argue that GC is already part of the CA experience.

I admit it, I'm a deisgn purist snob! I love the Swan and Dolphin for their quirkiness, and loathe them for their location.

Dirk+

[tjkraz]

That's an interesting - and sensible - progression of units. The Contemporary North Wing makes more sense to me as the next resort than the STOL resort because no one has announced any dates for refurbishment of the North Wing. That indicates to me there's another plan afoot there.


Not necessarily.

While I believe those are all projects that have been investigated, any or all of them could join Eagle Pines on the list of resorts-that-never-were.

IMO, the main reason that nothing has been announced for the CR at this point is because even Disney doesn't know what they are doing there--at least they didn't when renovations began on the CR. Work has been ongoing at the CR for over a year now. Plans were certainly finalized months before that to accommodate budget approval, material orders, labor, etc.

The CR may yet be one of the irons in the fire, but I can't see there being a master plan afoot to build in 5 or 6 separate locations over the next 5 years.

I just hope DVC has the good sense to build a large resort rather than this string of 200-300 room add-ons. Small resorts will just add more properties that are difficult to book outside of 7 months. Sure you can always buy points there, but heaven forbid anyone would try to book their Home resort on less than 7 months notice.

Give us a first-class resort with 1000+ rooms and all of the amenities that Deluxe resort guests expect, and the entire program will be better off for it.

[jimfitz]

Give us a first-class resort with 1000+ rooms and all of the amenities that Deluxe resort guests expect, and the entire program will be better off for it.


Well put! We can only wait and see.

[carolina_yankee]

I just hope DVC has the good sense to build a large resort rather than this string of 200-300 room add-ons. Small resorts will just add more properties that are difficult to book outside of 7 months. Sure you can always buy points there, but heaven forbid anyone would try to book their Home resort on less than 7 months notice.

I think it's going to be a mixture of both large and small resorts. The CR rumors have been so strong, I still trust them, and I do find it odd that no annoucnements have been made about refurbing the North Wing. Obviously the won't refurb 2/3 of the resort and leave the North Wing as a musem to the "future" of the '70s! Yet, no word on when the refurb will start. I agree that WDW has likely made up their mind what they're going to do with the North Wing, but that doesn't mean they're letting anyone else know.

Anyway, back to size - I couldn't see a large add-on at either CR or AKL, but I believe they're likely to happen. Hawaii and Colorado would surely be large resorts, and another large resort on WDW property makes sense, too.

As for the 5 year timeline, that doesn't seem impossible to me either, if Disney is really going for a nationwide push on DVC. Face it, the only reason to buy now is because you want to go WDW or vacation on the Southeastern shoreline. A string of resorts across the West and Hawaii would certainly incrase the nationwide appeal and potentially introduce 'them park scrooges' to the benefits of Disney.

The Adventures by Disney is another example to me of a desire to branch out and find some way to get a vacationer's dollar in whatever way they want to tour.

Dirk

[mushu]

If only dreams come true.

[Blue&Gold]

At Epcot, you could enter via the International Gateway and never really get a sense of what Future World is about...

You're kidding, right? Not get a sense of what Future World is about? Hmmm... The future? I'm not sure Epcot is the right example to use to discuss the purity of vision, particularly Walt's vision, since Epcot is a perversion of Walt's plans for a CITY, not a theme park. Also, the original location for the World Showcase was supposed to be a World's Fair-like pavillion on the Seven Seas Lagoon... It wasn't part of Walt's EPCOT. Maybe the second chapter of Michael Eisner's story, not Walt's.

Look, I like walking down Main Street, through the Oasis at AK, and into the 1940s Hollywood experience at DS, but I also like zipping into Epcot at the IG and heading right to the Rose and Crown!

It might be a nice perk to allow CRV guests to jump right into Tomorrowland without fighting the Main Street morning rush. If that's not your cup of tea, don't use it...

Second entrance or not, it seems there is more support for the idea of walking into MK from CR-north than the monorail.

[tjkraz]

I'm with Dirk on the IG. No, Epcot isn't what Walt envisioned. But the park was designed to have guests entering through the front. I always feel like I'm cheating when I enter from that back door. I miss seeing Spaceship Earth rising over the entrance (yes, even with the big wand), the music in the plaza, the monorail roaring overhead, etc.

I'm not trying to say that anyone is wrong for liking the IG, just that it is a little out of place from a design standpoint. It doesn't fit the original intent or design of the park.

As for the MK, there really isn't room for such an entrance. Look at overhead maps of the park and you'll see that there is a large Cast Member parking lot that is bordered by Tomorrowland to the north and Main Street to the West. That's where your entrance would have to be located.

There are also two roads in that area (World Drive and the CM parking lot access road), a large pond, the WDW Railroad tracks, monorail beam, and a lot of trees. Staffing-wise you would need CMs to handle bag checks, turnstiles, ticket sales and stroller rentals during all park hours. That alone is a lot of expense for what would be a novelty feature almost exclusively for the use of DVC members

[carolina_yankee]

You're kidding, right? Not get a sense of what Future World is about? Hmmm... The future? I'm not sure Epcot is the right example to use to discuss the purity of vision, particularly Walt's vision, since Epcot is a perversion of Walt's plans for a CITY, not a theme park.

Nope. Not kidding. You can't see Future world from the IG entrance. You can barely see Spaceship Earth. There is no central theme to draw you in. It's the first park entrance to depart from the unified sense of show Walt always sought. I'm well aware that Epcot is not Walt's vision, and that's not what I was referring to. When I referred to Walt's cadinal deisgn value, I was referring to was Walt's desire for unity of show not his plans for Epcot.

Also, I'm not sure I would call Epcot a perversion of Walt's plans for a city. It's clearly something else - it's a re-imagining of what Walt dreamed to fit new circumstances.

Dirk

[carolina_yankee]

By the way, B&G, I'm sorry if it looked like I was challenging you in my intitial response to your suggestion of a second entrance. I totally understand the request, and there are so many variables with a potential CR DVC that it's anyone's guess what could happen or how the Imagineers would tie it all in together.

It's just that Disney's use of design has so fascinated me that I jumped on the opportunitiy to opine. Didn't mean to make it look like a debate!

Cheers,
Dirk

[Blue&Gold]

Dirk, I was just having a little fun with the "You're kidding" line, myself. Don't mind a little intellectual jousting. I enjoy your posts, and Tim's. We all probably give this stuff way too much thought considering we aren't getting paid a dime by the Mouse to brainstorm all this stuff!

I have a Naval Academy Classmate who works for Disney's strategic planning department, and he's asked what I think about their new offerings---of course he's tighter-lipped than I'd like him to be about their plans---but I try to give good feedback.

No doubt a second entrance at MK would be too hard, but since we're chatting about rumors of up to 6 new resorts, why not dream a little?

I love Epcot, which helped seal the deal to buy BWV. Heck, I listen to the music from Illuminations nearly every morning as I drive to work! But I really think it is two different theme parks and I have a hard time catching the unifying message.

FWIW, for all the genius Disney exhibits in crowd management with the queues, Fastpass, live show scheduling, etc., they sure have created enormous bottlenecks at the entrances to the parks. I understand setting the mood--but I get out of the mood pretty quickly when the cattle drive on Main Street runs my 4 year old over when he gets out of his stroller to look at "The Castle!" Ditto the bridge to Discovery Island at AK... Places I would love to linger, but fear for my family if we try to do so.

Now, back to the OP... What do you think the theme of the new resort will be if the STOL location is used?

---Llew

[carolina_yankee]

Dirk, I was just having a little fun with the "You're kidding" line, myself. Don't mind a little intellectual jousting. I enjoy your posts, and Tim's. We all probably give this stuff way too much thought considering we aren't getting paid a dime by the Mouse to brainstorm all this stuff!

I have a Naval Academy Classmate who works for Disney's strategic planning department, and he's asked what I think about their new offerings---of course he's tighter-lipped than I'd like him to be about their plans---but I try to give good feedback.

No doubt a second entrance at MK would be too hard, but since we're chatting about rumors of up to 6 new resorts, why not dream a little?

I love Epcot, which helped seal the deal to buy BWV. Heck, I listen to the music from Illuminations nearly every morning as I drive to work! But I really think it is two different theme parks and I have a hard time catching the unifying message.

FWIW, for all the genius Disney exhibits in crowd management with the queues, Fastpass, live show scheduling, etc., they sure have created enormous bottlenecks at the entrances to the parks. I understand setting the mood--but I get out of the mood pretty quickly when the cattle drive on Main Street runs my 4 year old over when he gets out of his stroller to look at "The Castle!" Ditto the bridge to Discovery Island at AK... Places I would love to linger, but fear for my family if we try to do so.

Now, back to the OP... What do you think the theme of the new resort will be if the STOL location is used?

---Llew

Thanks, Llew - Sometimes it's hard to gage the true tone from words without body language, so I just wanted to make sure.

As for theme of a STOL resort? I've no earthly idea. I just hope it's not 'neo-Mediterranean-generic' that seems to be Bonnet Creek's theme and every other Central Florida resort. Come to think of it, though, with all the water it looks like they plan for the resort, a traditional Mediterranean theme might be nice. Didn't they plan an Arabian/Persian themed resort for Sevean Seas Lagoon once? That would be a neat way to work in Aladdin.

Dirk

[Blue&Gold]

As for theme of a STOL resort? I've no earthly idea. I just hope it's not 'neo-Mediterranean-generic' that seems to be Bonnet Creek's theme and every other Central Florida resort.

Having actually lived in Italy, I don't really see the Florida-Med connection! You are right that it seems to be the default setting for design.

Hopefully, the Imagineers have better plans than stucco.

[withdisneyspirit]

My pilot husband wanted me to interject here that an aviation theme would be great for him because it was the STOLport after all...:D I asked DH how they should decorate and he wasn't at a loss for words!! He said they could put Mickey's Plane Crazy out front and the top could have a "control tower" like restaurant :), lots of model airplanes hanging from the ceiling and runway lights leading up to the front door! The CM's could wear vintage airline uniforms...I think he could go on and on :sunny:

[Gaston]

I love that idea! There are lots of similar themeing at DCA,in the Condor flats area.
How about a vintage Pan Am Clipper floating in the waterway (if they have one) as a lounge, it could serve the Clipper Cocktail they used to serve onboard.
My pilot husband wanted me to interject here that an aviation theme would be great for him because it was the STOLport after all...:D I asked DH how they should decorate and he wasn't at a loss for words!! He said they could put Mickey's Plane Crazy out front and the top could have a "control tower" like restaurant :), lots of model airplanes hanging from the ceiling and runway lights leading up to the front door! The CM's could wear vintage airline uniforms...I think he could go on and on :sunny:

[carolina_yankee]

You know, that would be both too cute and right up Disney's alley - especially given all the mystery flights over the "Florida Project"! What if they drew inspiration from great movie airport scenes - like Casablanca?

Dirk

[carolina_yankee]

Having actually lived in Italy, I don't really see the Florida-Med connection! You are right that it seems to be the default setting for design.

Hopefully, the Imagineers have better plans than stucco.

Acdtually, I was thinking Greece (that white, rounded architecture), but I always see high cliffs when I imagine those scenes - something you won't find in Florida. My relatives have a home in Cinque Terra which would have some lovely inspirations, but again, no cliffs.

Dirk

[PixyDust]

As for theme of a STOL resort? I've no earthly idea. I just hope it's not 'neo-Mediterranean-generic' that seems to be Bonnet Creek's theme and every other Central Florida resort. Come to think of it, though, with all the water it looks like they plan for the resort, a traditional Mediterranean theme might be nice. Didn't they plan an Arabian/Persian themed resort for Sevean Seas Lagoon once? That would be a neat way to work in Aladdin.

Dirk

Hello. First post on this board. Don't know how I didn't come upon this forum long ago! Enjoyable reading! :thumbsup:

Anyway, I was thinking that this would be a great opportunity to bring back one of the originally planned resorts. I found a link with pictures/designs. http://waltdatedworld.bravepages.com/id210.htm I personally really like the original Poly...

[Blue&Gold]

Hello. First post on this board. Don't know how I didn't come upon this forum long ago! Enjoyable reading! :thumbsup:


Welcome Home!

Some of us can be ornery, but it's all well-intentioned.

[doombuggy]

Welcome to the board, Pixiedust! Interesting link!

Question for the CR vets out there... From the north wing/tennis court area, can't you walk directly to the MK entrance? Is it worth schlepping back to the tower to catch the monorail? Maybe they could open a Tomorrowland entrance just for us DVCers?


I have walked plenty of times from the CR to the MK's entrance. And it's not just because I get to walk past my brick.....(which is where the sidewalk splits to go to the buses or the CR).

As far as putting in a 2nd entrance in the Tomorrowland area, forget it. There is too much junk back there.

I have a Naval Academy Classmate who works for Disney's strategic planning department, and he's asked what I think about their new offerings---of course he's tighter-lipped than I'd like him to be about their plans---but I try to give good feedback.


Be sure to give him our feedback too, especially if he's in the cone. :sunny:
And don't be ofended that he doesn't share; he must like his job & doesn't want to lose it. While I am not in the cone for mcuh, I do like my job and need to keep it - at least for another 3 months, when i hit 10 yrs!

[withdisneyspirit]

Hello. First post on this board. Don't know how I didn't come upon this forum long ago! Enjoyable reading! :thumbsup:

Anyway, I was thinking that this would be a great opportunity to bring back one of the originally planned resorts. I found a link with pictures/designs. http://waltdatedworld.bravepages.com/id210.htm I personally really like the original Poly...

Hi PixyDust! Come back often :D

[Blue&Gold]

And don't be ofended that he doesn't share; he must like his job & doesn't want to lose it.

Oh, I understand the need for confidentiality. Beyond the simple fact that it would improper, in the post-Sarbannes/Oxley world of corporate governance, it could be illegal.

I'll have to ask if he's in the cone... Sounds conspiratorial!

[ghost1000]

Here's one theory why the asian themed hotel was never built. The Magic Kingdom resorts are all themed to lands in the Magic Kingdom:

Contemporary Resort - Tomorrowland
Polynesian - Adventureland
Grand Floridian - Main Street USA
Wilderness Lodge - Frontierland

(I learned this during the Keys to the Kingdom Tour)

Since there's no Asialand, they probably discarded it. So if they built something DVC at the STOLport, would it reflect the Contemporary theming, or would it be Fantasyland, Toontown Fair, or maybe Liberty Square? And if it were themed to one of the lands not already used, would it be strictly DVC or open to the general public as well (like WL, BC, and BW)? It would be interesting to have a DVC attached to a hotel that wasn't an afterthought.

[Blue&Gold]

It would be interesting to have a DVC attached to a hotel that wasn't an afterthought.

BWV wasn't an afterthought... It was built dual use from the beginning.

[tjkraz]

Here's one theory why the asian themed hotel was never built. The Magic Kingdom resorts are all themed to lands in the Magic Kingdom:

Contemporary Resort - Tomorrowland
Polynesian - Adventureland
Grand Floridian - Main Street USA
Wilderness Lodge - Frontierland

(I learned this during the Keys to the Kingdom Tour)

Since there's no Asialand, they probably discarded it.

According to several sources, the main reason that the asian-themed resort--or any themed resort--was never built was due to the instability of the proposed sited. Disney engineers tried at least twice to pour concrete footings in the worksite adjacent to the Seven Seas Lagoon, and they simply disappeared into the swampland.

With the monorail beam already in place and a georgous view of the MK, I doubt that the theme of the resort would have kept Disney from using that site if it was workable.

It would be interesting to have a DVC attached to a hotel that wasn't an afterthought.

We already have such a resort--the BoardWalk. The Inn and Villa rooms were part of the original construction plan. Both opened simultaneously in the Summer of 1996.

[ghost1000]

Oops! My bad. I didn't realize Boardwalk and BWV were planned together.

According to the WaltDatedWorld website, the Asian themed hotel was built on the same spot at the Grand Flo sits now.

[nono]

Right, wasn't it the Persian-themed hotel that was to be built back on Bay Lake? (I think I'm remembering the old wall hanging in the Contemporary correctly...) :help:

[tjkraz]

According to the WaltDatedWorld website, the Asian themed hotel was built on the same spot at the Grand Flo sits now.

Yup, you're right. I was getting confused with the persian theme.

Still, the point remains that Disney would have loved to build that persian resort on the Seven Seas Lagoon, and it wouldn't have really "fit" the them of a MK land. I can't believe Disney would limit themselves in such a manner.

The aeronautical theme that someone suggested is intriguing, but seems a little in-your-face as the sole theme for a deluxe resort. It would be neat if they could find a theme of which aviation was a distinctive element--much in the way that horses are part of SSR or the carnival elements at BWV.

Guests seem to expect a certain degree of 'kitsch' in the lower-cost resorts, while the more expensive ones gravitate more toward the elegant. If we're really talking about a DVC resort that Disney could be selling for a decade or more, I tend to think they will be pretty conservative in their design choices. No sense alienating someone over the furnishings.

[tiggerguy2000]

Tikiman2001 web site has some great pictures of the original layouts from another site called widen your world that has great info on original disney stuff.
because of the gas problems when I remember the odd even days alot of hotels lost business around Disney.It was supposed to be a total of 5 resorts but only 2 got finished and the others would be built if demand for on property accomodations so dictated.The poly was different in the pre drawings and the contemporary was called Tempo Bay resort.Im not sure I buy the footing theory since they built 2 resorts around a lake that was man made.The Asian was the next resort to be built and the location was the spot the GF stands today.They had all models and plans done but the construction never started.The GF was built on the theme of main street(old style early 1900's) and not that every land in the Magic kingdom has a resort.That sounds like a good filler the guide uses.If all that was true then how does beach club boardwalk fit into EPCOT since they also are early theme Resorts.I remember taking the tram to the parking lots that now house the Epcot resorts.If anyone goes in the back entrance of Epcot you will see the original tram pickup spot that still stands.Trams where big back then.

[carolina_yankee]

I remember taking the tram to the parking lots that now house the Epcot resorts.If anyone goes in the back entrance of Epcot you will see the original tram pickup spot that still stands.Trams where big back then.
So that's what that shelter is for!! I couldn't figure it out, because I assumed the IG was created specifically for the Epcot resorts. Or were YC/BC latecomers and the IG created for the Swan/Dolphin? I never knew there was a parking lot entrance to that part of Epcot, so the gate and structures confused me.

Dirk

[tiggerguy2000]

So that's what that shelter is for!! I couldn't figure it out, because I assumed the IG was created specifically for the Epcot resorts. Or were YC/BC latecomers and the IG created for the Swan/Dolphin? I never knew there was a parking lot entrance to that part of Epcot, so the gate and structures confused me.

Dirk
Yes before Swan/Dolphin,YC,BC, and Boardwalk the tram went over the bridge ans went to parking lots and other areas.Remember back then nothing was what is now.They had no bus service like now so the tram was the way.Disney has alot of history that you walk by and if you ask questions you better look for some old timers because most have no clue.As you drive down the road going to the contemporary a race track for go-carts that also is gone with most not knowing it ever existed is history.You can find old pictures of many things that are no longrt around in books and web-sites.Im still learning myself so im no expert but I have been around these Disney boards since the first board popped up and have learned alot.it's sad that some who had great stories and where original employees have past on.They would have loved the way we have forums now.We had no pictures and you just posted.

tiggerguy

[tjkraz]

UPDATE: MousePlanet basically posted a retraction to their entire story about the STOLport DVC resort. See it here:

http://www.mouseplanet.com/articles.php?art=wd060626mg

I really don't know what to think at this point. MousePlanet tends to be one of the more reliable sources of Disney info. They must have really botched this one. The only justification given for debunking the original story is that the monorail beam is too close to World Drive for a station to be build there. If that's true, where did all of this information come from like references to a 16-story building and the mocked-up map that was posted in this thread? That's an awful lot of information for a resort that MP is now just dismissing.

Guess this is another "stay tuned" situation.

According to MP we're back to the Contemporary. Additional details in the article suggest that Disney wouldn't be permitted to build on the site of the tennis courts due to zoning laws, nor would they even be able to re-build the North Garden Wing entirely. They suggest the plan would be a tear-down plus reconstruction that goes up two additional stories.

That's just totally depressing. Given that the North Garden wing is currently home to about 300 studio-sized rooms, even adding the additional floor means that they're only going to get about 300 DVC villas out of this project. That's about 50% larger than BCV.

So here we have yet another property that will be difficult to book outside of 7 mos, thus doing little to alleviate the burden already placed on BCV, BWV and VWL. :thumbsway

Here's hoping this is another case of MousePlanet not quite getting its facts correct...

[jimfitz]

Did you notice the comments at the end of the article mentioning that SSR would need to sell out for the new resort, and that Disney is hoping that happens in time for a fall October announcement????? They better keep dreaming. More like October 2008

[tjkraz]

Did you notice the comments at the end of the article mentioning that SSR would need to sell out for the new resort, and that Disney is hoping that happens in time for a fall October announcement????? They better keep dreaming. More like October 2008

Yeah, I picked up on that, too. I almost emailed them similar comments but figured why bother.

Aside from the false insinuation that SSR could be sold out by October, it makes zero sense to think that DVC would leave itself with NOTHING to sell for roughly 3 years while a new resort (regardless of location) is constructed.

Another comment--the entire basis for MousePlanet's debunking of its own rumor was the proximity of the monorail track to World Drive. However, in the map that you posted earlier in the thread, part of the construction plan included relocation of a section of World Drive to move it further west of the development site. That seems to be a logical (and not unwieldy) solution to this single problem.

Do you happen to know the origin of that map, Jim?

[Lisa]

The first time I saw that picture and any reference to the STOL site was on WDWMagic forum. http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=74770 Afterwards it appeared on the DISBoards with the credit removed.

[jimfitz]

Do you happen to know the origin of that map, Jim?

Got it from DIS, but not sure who created it.

[Blue&Gold]

Not being a lawyer, let alone one familiar with the sweetheart deals made by Walt in the middle 1960s with the Florida state government, but isn't Reedy Creek the closest thing to a fuedal fiefdom that exists in the United States? Why would "zoning restrictions" stop this development? Just re-zone... There certainly is enough land on the Resort writ large to "exchange" if they need to make up a certain amount of acreage. Just how are tennis courts zoned anyway? Seems to me that they're part of a recreation/resort complex already...

I can see environmental regulations having more impact than zoning, but then again the Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake are man-made---they aren't part of a long-standing migratory waterfowl nesting pattern. Lots of ways to work around that, I would think.

Going back to a "Guide" conversation I had in the spring... DVD will go into pre-construction sales this fall. My guess is that they'll announce this fall and offer a menu with two options---pricey CRV points or more "incentivized" SSR Phase III.

[Gaston]

I don't think zoning is as much a problem as is federal law, and ecological standards within the state. I have read that, that is what keeps Disney from re making the Tree House area. Reedy Creek exceeds other local and state codes and standards from what I understand.
I still think California is the best bet for a new DVC, as others have stated that the DVC is heavily Eastern US in owners. It would make sense that Disney would want to attract the western half and get both halves to travel in both directions to a Disney property.
Frank

[tjkraz]

... the Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake are man-made---they aren't part of a long-standing migratory waterfowl nesting pattern.

Actually only the Seven Seas Lagoon is man-made. Bay Lake is natural.

Aside from that, I can't add anything else of value to the discussion. The last two weeks' worth of comments on MousePlanet really smell like them reporting a debate between two self-professed experts as fact. In other words, the original posting came out of a report from one individual, while the follow-up was a result of another person saying "no, that's not right--here's the truth..."

I guess we all just need to accept that little has changed from the way it's been for at least 4 - 5 years now: many rumors, many options for DVC to choose from and nothing official until it comes out of the mouth of Jim Lewis, Al Weiss or Bob Iger.

[dvcconvert]

The last two weeks' worth of comments on MousePlanet really smell like them reporting a debate between two self-professed experts as fact. In other words, the original posting came out of a report from one individual, while the follow-up was a result of another person saying "no, that's not right--here's the truth..."


:ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:

Welcome to the 'Wonderful World of informed DIS followers' !!!

:ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:

[Gaston]

:ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:

Welcome to the 'Wonderful World of informed DIS followers' !!!

:ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:
Yep, that is why my informant refuses to dilvulge any DVC info, as things change, and his 'contact' has a fantastic track record,but isn't always correct.

[Blue&Gold]

Actually only the Seven Seas Lagoon is man-made. Bay Lake is natural.

Thanks... Learn something new every day here on the forums!:D

[Colorado Belle]

...or not:ROTFL: :ROTFL:

It's fun dreaming; of course that's how it all started anyway, with dreaming!

The financial bottom line is what will drive the dreams into reality. In this case, what will cost the least, return the most and sell out the quickest.

But we can always dream of CRDVC!

[Lisa]

Well, I lurk over on WDWMagic and talk of the STOL site is popping back up on one of the threads. It doesn't seem to be going away...

WDWMagic Thread (http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=79061)

I don't know what I think about it. It could be a possibility. Is it something I want added to DVC? It depends on what they do with it. If they make a resort with enough reason for people to want to stay there.

[Blue&Gold]

That's an interesting thread, but as much from the tone of the discussion as the content... Boy folks are busting each other's chops over there!

[Lisa]

Yah, you have to skip over three quarters of 'yacking' and sparring to find the bits and pieces.