several questions about using points and perks

[mousehouse]

Been studying the benefits of DVC
we were planning a trip this year during the value season (Aug/Sept)and considering applying that money towards a DVC and then using the points for our trip.

Questions are

1) What happens for DVC folks during free dining promos?

2.) what is typically the discount for AP/PAP?

3) if we bought now would we have the points to use by then(assuming a resort was available)

4. On the points page for like moderates it lists like "18 " for the points during sun-th, I assume that is per day? week rate at the actual DVC are cheaper.? We are a family of 5 and need 2 bedrooms or at least 2 sleeping areas with a door between them. Does the 1 bedrooms at BCV allow that?

5. If you are shy on points, can you "simply use the points you have and then pay like any customer for the extra days you dont have points for?

6 and I think finally, I keep playing with numbers and it almost looks to me as tho, it takes a long time to break even using the DVC vs simply paying for your resort each year like anyone else. What am I missing?
I am assuming a 1 time a year trip for us for 9 nights 10 days

Thanks for all help!

[tjkraz]

1) What happens for DVC folks during free dining promos?

Nothing. The "free" dining perk is really just a discount program designed to entice people to visit WDW during slower periods. In order to receive this benefit guests need to pay full rack rate for their rooms and tickets direct from Disney.

Back in '03 and '04, Disney ran "Buy 4 get 7" promotions where you would pay for 4 nights' room and tickets and get a full 7 day trip. The "free dining" concept seems to resonate better with people which is why it's back again this year.

DVC members do not get to partake in these types of promotions--at least not when using their points. But bear in mind that these promotions do change from year to year. Two years ago I imagine there were people who bypassed DVC due to the "Buy 4 get 7" promotion for a July stay. Well, not only is that promotion not being offered in July this year, but there are NO special promotions available during July.

2.) what is typically the discount for AP/PAP?

We currently get $100 off of the base price of an adult, non-resident, non-renewal Annual Pass and $125 off of the same Premium Annual Pass. The discount rates vary slightly for child passes, renewals and Florida residents.

3) if we bought now would we have the points to use by then(assuming a resort was available)

If you buy direct from DVC, yes. If you give them your credit card number to charge a small down-payment over the phone, in most cases you can book your first trip without hanging up the phone. That's one of the perks of buying direct from DVC. If you should happen to rescind the deal before the closing occurs, they refund your money and cancel the reservation. No harm, no foul.

If you buy through a resale agent it takes a minimum of 60-90 days to really get into the system, and that assumes you can quickly find a contract you like and don't get hit by ROFR.

4. On the points page for like moderates it lists like "18 " for the points during sun-th, I assume that is per day? week rate at the actual DVC are cheaper.? We are a family of 5 and need 2 bedrooms or at least 2 sleeping areas with a door between them. Does the 1 bedrooms at BCV allow that?

Remember that your best use of points will ALWAYS be the 7 DVC resorts. As you probably noticed it costs more points to stay at a lesser-quality moderate than a DVC resort. That is by design. When you buy into DVC, you own a part of one of the 7 DVC resorts. Even though other resorts may carry the "Disney" name, staying outside of a DVC property is technically a "trade", which devalues your points.

You can find floorplans for each of the room sizes on the Mouseowners website. Just select a resort and click on the Rooms link.

You will probably find that DVC resorts are designed more for luxury than maximizing bodies in a room. Functionally DVC will allow 5 guests in a One Bedroom villa, but it was really designed for 4 occupants. And some would argue that even 4 is pushing it.

1B Villas have a king-sized bed in the bedroom and a queen-sized pullout sofabed in the living room. Cots and/or rollaway beds are NOT provided at DVC accommodations. Some people make due with their own airbeds, sleeping bags, etc.

You'd be hard pressed to find a more luxurious accommodation on Disney property. 1Bs run upward of 700 sq ft (which is 2-3 times the size of standard guest rooms) with a full kitchen, washer & dryer, jacuzzi tub, balcony, and so on. Like I said, the focus is luxury.

5. If you are shy on points, can you "simply use the points you have and then pay like any customer for the extra days you dont have points for?

Assuming there is availability, yes. Rooms are most frequently available at the cash rate on weekends when the nightly point costs rise dramatically.

DVC members even receive a 25% discount off of published rates at the DVC resorts. This rate is also subject to availability, but it's a good bet for weekends.

Some members make a habit of paying cash or even staying at another resort on the weekends to economize their points. You get great value from your points using them for Sunday - Thursday nights, while weekends aren't nearly as economical. Disney resorts will even transport your luggage for you, making it a fairly painless process to switch during your stay.

6 and I think finally, I keep playing with numbers and it almost looks to me as tho, it takes a long time to break even using the DVC vs simply paying for your resort each year like anyone else. What am I missing?
I am assuming a 1 time a year trip for us for 9 nights 10 days

If you use points almost entirely at the 7 DVC properties and try to avoid weekends, you will probably find a breakeven point of 6-8 years when comparing to the published Rack Rates for the same room. Using points for non-DVC stays (other hotels, cruises, etc.) or for weekend stays will extend that breakeven point.

It sounds like the biggest hurdle for you is going to be finding a DVC room size that meets your needs. With 5 individuals, how long will you be comfortable in a One Bedroom Villa? Assuming 3 of them are children, you probably can't get by with just one bathroom indefinitely. ;) A Two Bedroom Villa would give you more than enough space, but will also cost more points. You'll have to decide if that's a worthwhile upgrade for you.

Prior to buying into DVC, our previous stays had all been in Moderate resorts with rooms that run about 300 sq ft. Best case, we will probably end up spending about the same money for our lodging in the long-run, but DVC has enabled us to step-up to a 750 sq ft 1B villa. To us, that is a worthwhile upgrade.

Our kids are still young and there's nothing quite like being able to relax in front of the TV for a few hours in the living room while the kids nap quietly in the bedroom. Having the kitchen in the room has certainly saved us a few dollars over buying all of our meals at Disney restaurants, and there are other scattered DVC perks that help the wallet, too.

Good luck in your decision, and don't hesitate to ask more questions.
Tim

[mousehouse]

Thanks for the great info!

Is OKW one that DVC no longer sells?
Do they offer a discount on the dining plan?..usually?
The one bedroom would fit us perfect for now and would almost fit our budget for joining. The kids are young enough to share a bed at this point and later I can always buy more points if needed.

We LOVED the BCV, but that sounds overly popular, with the flexiblity of the plan I think OKW would work well for us. If DVC still sells it, about what are those points costing right now?

We are already planning for next year(and this years trip) ..now let's see if I can convince hubby!

[mousehouse]

I almost forgot

looking at the points charts for this year like OKW I don't see the dates for sept 1

like we were planning to go 8/29-9/7 what happens for that sept date? I didn't see what season it was in? and if its a split date, do they charge it half and half?

for 9 nights it would be a week stay plus 2 nights? (for points billing)

and I know you have the chart but what is rofr or whatever that term is you are using?

[PoohsPal]

Currently, DVC will tell you they are only selling SSR. However, through ROFR, they can get you points at other resorts. If you want anything other than SSR, you may have to push your gude a bit and there may be waitlist, but you can get points at other resorts. I have not heard of a long wait for OKW points.

ROFR - Right of First Refusal

This means thatwhen a DVC owner goes to sell their DVC. Disney gets first crack at it. After the buyer and seller have a signed purchase agreement, the contract goes to DVC. If DVC wants it, they will buy it at stated cost. If not, sale ROFR is waived and sale goes through. That's why resale can take a but longer.

I think OKW points are about $5 less than SSR. $99? I'll let soemone else verify that for you.

DVC is flexible, but remeber that owners at a particular resort have a 4 month jump on beign able to get reservations. If you really want BCV, you shoul dtry there (although that is one of the hardest to get points for). If you'll be ok with OKW if you can't get BCV, tha=en that would be fine.

Point Charts - Looks like we missed Sept at OKW. That should be Adventure season, though. So, yes, that would be a split visit. You will just pay the applicable points fo reach month. SO, the last part of your trip would be cheaper points.

I htink that's most of it. Let us know if you have mor equestions.

Good luck convincing the hubby!

[tjkraz]

Thanks for the great info!

Is OKW one that DVC no longer sells?

As stated, you can usually buy OKW points through DVC. However you will pay much more for the points than buying through the resale market. I won't go into too much more about resales, but you are welcome to ask if you are interested.

Note that all DVC contracts have ending dates. At some point in the future, your ownership in DVC will end.

If you buy into Saratoga Springs, your ownership will run through January 31, 2054. However, for all other resorts including OKW, the ownership ends on January 31, 2042.

In my opinion, buying OKW points direct from DVC would be a mistake. If you have the cash to buy resale and don't mind the fact that you will only get about 36 years out of your purchase, then buy OKW. But if you need to finance or want the full 48 years that SSR has to offer, buy there.

OKW is the second largest resort. As long as you are able to plan your trips 4-5 months out, it will be rare that you ever have trouble booking at OKW.

Do they offer a discount on the dining plan?..usually?

I don't want to bore you.....but I probably will anyway. ;)

Even when the dining plan is not free to cash guests, it does have a purpose. In order to buy the dining plan, cash guests need to buy their room (normally at full rack rate) from Disney AND they need to get their park tickets from Disney. In other words, you're potentially saving some money on your meals by agreeing to give Disney your dollars in other areas.

Right now, guests can buy their tickets from Ticketmania or another third-party vendor and easily save $20-50 per ticket off of Disney's prices. You could book your room through AAA and save 10-15% or get an Annual Passholder rate with even deeper discounts.

In order for a cash guest to get the Dining Plan, they forego these types of discounts.

The big benefit to DVC members is that we don't need to buy anything else from Disney in order to add the dining plan. We just pay the flat published rates--I think it's $39 per adult and $11 per child, per day--and the dining plan can be added to the reservation.

Check this page for more information about dining options for DVC members:

http://www.mouseowners.com/DVCDiningOptions.html

We LOVED the BCV, but that sounds overly popular, with the flexiblity of the plan I think OKW would work well for us.

Just to warn you, BCV is one of the smallest DVC properties and can be difficult to get into at times. It sounds like you're more drawn to OKW, so that shouldn't be a big deal. I'm sure you will be able to book BCV from time-to-time as long as you plan ahead and call as early as possible. The summer months aren't particularly popular with DVC members.

Hope that helps.

[mousehouse]

Thanks so much for the help! Got more help here than calling the Disney 800 number!

I called them this am to check on OKW was quoted $92

They kept doing the 'we will mail you a package" well I do want the package, but wanted some questions answered too. Impatient i am.
The savings at resale are great, but they are adding a few things on which Disney seems to be absorbing at this point..closing costs?
Course, they are pushing SSR, but on allears it doesn't appeal to me. I am spoiled as I did like BCV when we stayed there, but i think OKW will do just as well for a home resort. I didn't see much "beach" pictured for it and hammocks..are there any there?
If we do this , we want to be able to use it for this years trip.

Any tips for getting perks, savings or extras if we do by direct?
Also, if we buy thru Disney, how does payment work out? I dodn't have the total amount right now, but expect it by or before Aug. Prefer not to finance as we won't win any contest for good credit(from problems during 9/11)

Thanks again for everyone's kindness!

[PoohsPal]

For starters, the kindness thing? Yes, we're really into that here. We try to be kind to all. Seeing as many of us own SSR, we frown upon it being called a dump or on any DVC resorts beign labeled that way. Saying that it's not your taste, completely understandable and acceptable. OK, stepping off soap box. ;)

You will see no difference in perks go through DVC direct or resale. You can't really negotiate anything out of DVC either. Price is price.

Yes, DVC absorbs the closing costs right now, although you would still likely see a savings by going resale.

Usually, you pay $500 up front (or maybe 10%?) and tehn full payment is expected at closing if you are not finanicing.

I hear you on the pateince thing! Not one of my virtues either!

[mousehouse]

I apologize!! I am a very frank, blunt person. Of course I certainly meant that SSR to ME was not what I would like! I can certainly see it's appeal to others, and I may add I have not been in person to either of those 2 resotrs, so I am relying totally on pictures. Pictures can be deceiving! I have been to BW and BCV and peeked in YC, so those I can kind of comment on with personal exp.

Guess i will have to wait for hubby to come home this weekend and for info from Disney to make a choice.


If I understand everything correctly, this is a good thing for long term vacation plans? However, doesn't the yearly maintainance fee mess things up? You have to add that cost into your initial cost to project any future savings.

[PoohsPal]

Apology completely accepted! :goodvibes:

Yes, the biggest factor is the maintenance fees. Ther is a cap to how much those can increase, though, and teh website has a great list of what they have been historically. That should help. Let us know if you need more ammo before dh comes home! ;)

ETA: We find the going every year to every other year, with plans to do that well into the future, and staying at a mod or a deluxe makes for the perfect DVCer. ;)

[PoohsPal]

Here's the link to the historical dues chart.

http://www.mouseowners.com/DuesHistories.html

[TW1]

mousehouse, good for you for asking so many questions. This is too big a purchase to not uncover every stone.

The maintenace cost is a good issue to consider. Here's how we look at it.

Our home resort is Hilton Head Island. We do go to WDW every other year, but make it to HHI often twice a year with our meager 150 points. The annual dues is about $540. Thus, it's like "owning a beach house" for only that much a year.

Living near Philly we can't begin to touch one week at the Jersey shore for less than $3,000. And that price goes no where but up each year.

Plus, if for some reason we can't go some year we could rent that years points and cover the cost of the annual fee no problem.

If you really expect to go to WDW every 18 months, or less, and you want to stay in at least a "moderate" resort each time, than a DVC ownership makes very good economic sense.

[Deep-Thots]

If you are seriously considering buying through DVC and choose not to look at SSR at this time, then you really might want to consider trying to purchase BCV through them (since you said you really, really liked it); it has the same purchase price as OKW. If you're looking at OKW because of the lower point values and extra room in the villas, of course, then just ignore this post!! :)

Kim

[bavaria]

You may also find that once you stay at a certain resort, your opinion of said resort may change. I never really thought that much of OKW until I stayed a week and really enjoyed the peace and relaxation, neighbourhood feel, and size of the units. The physical condition was also well maintained.

In fact, that stay made me decide to buy at OKW!

Best of luck with your decision.....

[mousehouse]

I found a resale that seems to fit our needs perfectly! The use year times perfect for us and the price is reasonable. So, I put in an offer and the seller is agreeable, so now will discuss with dh and review the contract and hopefully, go from there.

Maybe I will be your "neighbor" soon, and I promise not to call your resort names :bowdown:

[Deep-Thots]

Excellent news, mousehouse!! Certainly hope your hubby is amenable to the idea, and that we can welcome you home very, very soon!! :clappingh

Kim

[TW1]

Good for you Mousehouse!

Let us know how it goes.

[PoohsPal]

So, I put in an offer and the seller is agreeable, so now will discuss with dh and review the contract and hopefully, go from there.
So much for waiting to discuss with dh this weeknd! Firm beiever in best to beg fo rforgiveness than ask permission? ;) Just remember that if your offer is too low, DVC may take ROFR. Good luck! :dust:

[mousehouse]

In case you are wondering how I plan to slip that by hubby, I think this pic will explain it :doublekis

I knew he was interested, so didn't just wade out on my own, but yes I often do things first and apologize later.




I was wondering on the resales, some have points available or left over and others used up their points and may be a year or more before they are available. yet, they seem to charge a similar price per point. i assume that ones that have some available or leftover should have that figured in as value somehow?

Also, if you buy resale when do you pay that yealy fee and when you buy thru Disney when do you pay that yearly fee?

Also, with Disney how do you figure the deposit and balance due date?

[PoohsPal]

The way I would figure the value of contracts is to take teh cost, divide it by # of years of points, then by # of points.

For example, If I was buying an OKW contract at $82/point and one contract had 2006 points left adn one you had to wait until 07, here are the values I'd use:

82x150 = 12,300

For the one with 05 points, 12,300/37/150 = $2.22 per point

For the one with 07 points, 12,300/35/150 = $2.34 per point

WHen you buy, MFs will be due at closing. Through DIsney they may be prorated, not sure. For resale, you'd likely have to pay MFs through 06 at close. After that, MFs are due in January, or you can go monthly.

[granny]

In case you are wondering how I plan to slip that by hubby, I think this pic will explain it :doublekis Wow, who's the other gal? :duck:




I was wondering on the resales, some have points available or left over and others used up their points and may be a year or more before they are available. yet, they seem to charge a similar price per point. i assume that ones that have some available or leftover should have that figured in as value somehow?

Also, if you buy resale when do you pay that yealy fee and when you buy thru Disney when do you pay that yearly fee?


Every resale is negotiable...you should figure out a cost-per-point for a resort that you are willing to pay, and then add or subtract a certain dollar amount based on whether the contract is stripped (no available points) or banked (additional points available immediately.

When we bought resale, the going price per point for BWV was about $70 per point. The contract we bought was stripped (no points available in the year we purchased, all future points available) so we paid $62 per point for the contract since we didn't need the points that year anyway. With closing costs, it ended up being about $66 per point.

If you buy resale, the dues should already be paid for that year's use year (unless you buy in January-February in which case the seller might not have paid them yet). So that's year's annual dues would be included in the purchase price. Then, whether you buy resale or through Disney, your dues will be payable every year in January.

Good luck in your decision! :)

[mousehouse]

Annual fees

well, the resale person told me that it is more common the buyer pays the fees for the year unless it is late in the year like Oct. I felt they should be prorated.
I remade my offer to reflect that(didn't realize until i saw the contract about that detail) It is a small thing in the scheme of things, BUT it's enough to buy half of us the DDP for our stay :ale:
So, I should know by Monday what the seller says. I didnt nag their point cost request..it was pretty fair considering all the pts were available and a few from 05 were banked, and they allowed a small extension I needed. Hopefully, they will be ammendable to my redo
If so, we will send our deposit and contract in and wait for Disney to make their big move.
So, I guess we may be owners soon of the "evil timeshare" Hope I am not the only one growing up that heard how evil timeshares are?
Wait until i tell my mom..will listen to the..why would you want to go THERE every year? :rant:

[PoohsPal]

Oh, we would never buy an evil timeshare. ;)

This its different it's DIsney! :D

[Deep-Thots]

Annual fees

well, the resale person told me that it is more common the buyer pays the fees for the year unless it is late in the year like Oct. I felt they should be prorated.
I remade my offer to reflect that(didn't realize until i saw the contract about that detail) It is a small thing in the scheme of things, BUT it's enough to buy half of us the DDP for our stay :ale:
So, I should know by Monday what the seller says. I didnt nag their point cost request..it was pretty fair considering all the pts were available and a few from 05 were banked, and they allowed a small extension I needed. Hopefully, they will be ammendable to my redo
If so, we will send our deposit and contract in and wait for Disney to make their big move.
So, I guess we may be owners soon of the "evil timeshare" Hope I am not the only one growing up that heard how evil timeshares are?
Wait until i tell my mom..will listen to the..why would you want to go THERE every year? :rant:

Did they want you to pay MF (maintenance fees a/k/a annual dues) on the 2005 plus the 2006 points, or just the 2006 points? If only 2006, their request that you pay MF for this year is pretty reasonable, as long as all the points are available. After all, you're the one who gets to use them. If it's really a contract you want, I don't know that I'd quibble over a few hundred dollars in the grand scheme of things. JMO; YMMV.

Kim

[mousehouse]

2006 not 2005.
I made the offer..they can always say "no" and I have to reconsider. I figure i didnt "argue" their asking price so this was a fair request.
Tho I think, this is the best option for us, there are always other fish in the sea!

Do most people negotiate the asking pt price at resales or?

[Deep-Thots]

It depends entirely on the particular contract -- price per point, points available, etc. Sorry I can't be more helpful!!

Kim

[mousehouse]

I am so happy the seller agreed to the prorate on the annual dues and it looks like Monday i will be sending in my agreement and deposit!

Off to fror and then we will be OKW "owners" guess I will own a flower somewhere on the property :hehehehe:

[Deep-Thots]

Congratulations!! Be sure to add yourself to the ROFR support thread!!

[PoohsPal]

:rockband: Good luck with rofr! :dust:

By teh way, you will own a fraction of a building. They will even tell you the building number. I don't think anyone has ever figured out which bldg number goes to which building, though. :headscrat