What Weekends Cost

[tjkraz]

My own response to the QotW got me thinking about the real cost of using points for weekends.

Those who read my ridiculously detailed trip report may recall that I'm starting to favor 7 day / 6 night trips over our recent 6 day / 5 night. Next year we're hoping to spend our time at OKW--probably in a 2B. The Saturday night we will likely arrive costs 64 points for the night. The cash rate is currently $500. Deduct the 25% member discount and add the 11.5% tax and you get a net rate of $418 per night cash.

Now here's the scary part:

64 x $90 = $5760 (Up front investment for adding 64 more points at today's discounted prices, assuming the points were earmarked for repeated weekend stays.)

64 x $3.98 = $254 (The dues alone would cost me $254 annually in 2006 dollars.)

$418 - $254 = $164 (Using points vs. cash is only "saving" me $164 each year, again in 2006 dollars.)

$5760 / $164 = 35.12 (It would take me over THIRTY-FIVE years just to break-even on this add on!!!)

Granted the above assumes that my add-on purchase would be used exclusively for weekend stays. Honestly, that's a valid assumption in this case. We live 1100 miles away from WDW and just can't get down there more than once or twice per year, and we have enough points to do that now.

Buying resale MIGHT save us some money, but that's questionable since <100 point contracts seem to sell for a premium. Buying through DVC and financing would only make the situation worse.

Now I don't feel quite so bad about not owning more points. :)

[TW1]

Tim

I've just been going through this exercise myself. Thanks for clarifying a few things for me. I feel like I'm "stuck" with my current points for this same reason. Now, if I won the lottery it would be a whole new ballgame!

[granny]

The good news is that once you've "broken through" the weekend barrier, adding on points to make those 7 night stays stretch to 12 nights is a real easy "break even"!!:D

When we bought, we thought about a week's worth of points rather than individual nights. Once you smooth out the points over a week, it's much more palatable. :cool:

[Lisa]

The good news is that once you've "broken through" the weekend barrier, adding on points to make those 7 night stays stretch to 12 nights is a real easy "break even"!!:D


I like the way you think Granny!! :bowdown: You are the master!

Tjkraz - great analysis, but since I already have enough points for our week+ stays, I'll pretend I didn't read that!

[Plutofan2]

If you think weekend rates are bad at WDW you should do the calculation for HH. We are staying in a Grand Villa in June and there is no way I could justify points on a weekend when comapre to the 25% member discount. If I used points Disney is valuing those points at a little over $5 per point. Most people do not realize that there true cost in their points when you factor in your upfront costs, dues and mortgage interest (or loss income on the initial investment at 5%) is probably in excess of $10 per point.

[CRSNDSNY]

Great breakdown Tim!

I think we'll continue either paying cash nights for weekends when necessary or perhaps trying out different Disney Resorts and using our AP discount. I hate moving, but it is always fun to try something new.

[Rozzie]

Great breakdown Tim!

I think we'll continue either paying cash nights for weekends when necessary or perhaps trying out different Disney Resorts and using our AP discount. I hate moving, but it is always fun to try something new.

Right there with ya' Melody! We are doing AKL in November. Can't wait!

I know my #'s don't make sense to a lot by doing it this way....but....another MO taught me her little trick. I take the 7 nights in points, divide by 7, and have it equal to a average per night. We don't look at it as the dreaded weekend nights, but the cost of a full week trip. One trip a year we stay the full 7. Other trips we either go to the Dark side :shhh: or we stay at another resort on a AP discount. It is our little way of making every trip unique. We added on to give us the luxury of a full week's stay once a year. What is great about DVC, is there are so many ways to "tweak" the plan to fit your own family needs/wants/desires!!

Happy Planning!

btw Tim--I loved your detailed trip report! Keep em' coming!! :blueflowe

[Deep-Thots]

Well, you're presuming the 25% discount will always be available. DVC may lower it or do away with it altogether one day. Who knows? :idontgeti

[cobbler]

I too breakdown my stay by dividing the total number for the week by 7.

Since SSR is our home, 7 nights for the most expensive season when we travel is 194. Divide by 7 and that makes it 27 and some change per night for a one bedroom.

I guess I don't look at the weekend points as I look at the overall whole week.

Different strokes for different folkes

[PoohsPal]

Yup, I like to look at a week at a time too! However, dh saw the points chart and is now a weekend night avoider. :scary: I'm hoping this will change in 08 when we are out of point debt! :p

We get good deas on Firday night flights, though, so our last trip we had night 1 at Pop. When you arrive at 11:30 pm and leave at 5 am, it really doesn't matter wwhat level of room you have!

[tjkraz]

Well, you're presuming the 25% discount will always be available. DVC may lower it or do away with it altogether one day. Who knows? :idontgeti

True, but since most of the dollars received for these bookings go down as a credit against our dues, there would have to be a valid reason for the adjustment. Eliminating the perk altogether means that more rooms simply sit empty and our dues go up becuase that revenue is never realized. Simply reducing the discount amount would lead to higher per-room revenue, but bookings would almost certainly go down.

Even at full Rack Rate of $500 plus tax, using the same numbers in my example, it would take me nearly 20 years to break even on this 64-pt add on. And that doesn't include any allowance for interest lost on the $5700 up-front investment.

Still doesn't make sense. I'd rather stay in a Deluxe or Moderate room for one or two nights before moving to the DVC accommodation.

I don't have a problem with those who look at the week as a whole. But speaking as someone who projected his savings based upon the cheap 5-night period, it's pretty hard to justify an add-on to extend those trips by a day or two using points.

[PoohsPal]

I don't have a problem with those who look at the week as a whole. But speaking as someone who projected his savings based upon the cheap 5-night period, it's pretty hard to justify an add-on to extend those trips by a day or two using points.

Right Tim! It all depends on the way you valued it when you bought it or do that add on! We all know everyone values their points differently. ;)

[Deep-Thots]

I too breakdown my stay by dividing the total number for the week by 7.

Since SSR is our home, 7 nights for the most expensive season when we travel is 194. Divide by 7 and that makes it 27 and some change per night for a one bedroom.

I guess I don't look at the weekend points as I look at the overall whole week.

Different strokes for different folkes


Yes, this is what we did when we made our initial purchase and add-ons. We looked at weekly values, and honestly didn't even consider the Sun. - Thurs. option. But then, we really, really, really (did I mention really?) dislike moving. :scary:

[DrTomorrow]

My own response to the QotW got me thinking about the real cost of using points for weekends.

Those who read my ridiculously detailed trip report may recall that I'm starting to favor 7 day / 6 night trips over our recent 6 day / 5 night. [...] This has been our preferred trip lenght ever since we bought into DVC. When we bought our points (300, but don't tell anyone) we figured we'd rather deal with a few too many points than feel pinched. Our usual trip (when it is just MrsTomorrow and I) is to spend our arrival night (we fly in from Phoenix, and what with getting up early to beat traffic and the now-3-hour time zone difference, we're not worth much on arrival night) in a non-SSR Studio, then check-in the next morning for 5 more nights at SSR in a 1BR. There's something about the extra day/night that helps prevent that crowded feeling.

Be well!

[Colorado Belle]

While 'different strokes' is an apt adage in this case, I thought I'd throw a monkey wrench into the mix: using Tim's example of 64 points for a 2 bedroom, OKW on the first night of an annual trip.

First, a disclaimer: I understand how a week just 'feels different' than only 6 days.
Especially when one includes the 'partial days' of coming and going, even a week trip can feel 'short'.

Second, we all feel differently about 'value' and 'getting our money's worth. And we all know that mathmatics can be used to prove or disprove the same theory.

Third: assume that most everyone has a 'hard day' flying/driving to Disney. (Like Dr. T, I fly west to east, so my day is pretty well shot by the time the plane lands. )Also, the fact that flying on Saturday is usually one of the most economical days to fly.

So here's the deal. What if you took those 64 points and rented them @ $11 pp.
You would 'earn' over $700.00. And instead of getting that 2 bedroom, check in after 4 PM...and you know you are either going to hit a park (if you have an AP), have dinner (could be 2 hours) and then hit the sack....you instead opt for a close to Disney motel room (or rooms) where you simply check in upon arrival (instead of waiting til 4), drop your overnight bags, and head for the parks. Two priceline rooms, 2.5 star = $70 . You play in the park, suck in some Disney magic, maybe watch Wishes or go over to eat at the Poly and then take a walk on the beach...whatever...and go to bed relatively early after taking a shower and brushing teeth . Point: the first day you don't necessarily have time to enjoy that eexpensive, weekend 2 bd OKW. If you opt for an offsite alternative, you have 'earned' $630 that first day. ($700-70). Remember: you didn't bother to unpack, but instead packed an overnight duffel which includes your day #2 clothing, you spent no time 'checking into the offsite motel and spent only bath/sleep time in the room, and you had more hours to enjoy Disney, and you've 'earned' $630.


My different stroke is that I don't look at that first night offsite as 'giving up' anything. With an AP (and of course the savings can 'buy' your AP), I can still enjoy the parks that first day and chances are, that when I return to my 'room' all I'm going to be tired and just want to bath in a clean bath and sleep in a clean bed.To me, saving that $700 pays for my car rental and gas, my DDP for 6 nights and my AP pass for the year. And I really don't miss that first night sleeping at OKW.

Another way of looking at it, would be that that one night's savings might pay your year's maintenance fees if you had 170pointsOKW.

If all else fails and you still need that first night in your OKW unit, if you rent your points and then pay cash, you STILL make @$300 ($704-418) AND you allow someone else to experience a few nights (6 nights in a studio,4 in a one bedrm)at DVC by renting your points. :teacher:

[idratherbeinwdw]

So here's the deal. What if you took those 64 points and rented them @ $11 pp.
You would 'earn' over $700.00.

This is (i think, correct me if I misunderstood) assuming one has 64 extra points to begin with. Tim (and I) bought enough points to stay sun-thurs. We'd have to layout more cash and pay more dues to "earn" the money you refer to. We don't have any points to spare and rent at this time.

However I too am feeling a little "gypped" at staying 6 days/5 nights. (Boy do I feel greedy saying that, as I do go 3X a year). So here is my plan for next end of April/ beginning of May:

I don't rent a car, and even though it's just 2 nights I still like to stay onsite. So I will start and end in a Pop Century room (2 nights total), hopefully with an AP discount. It should add only about $150 total to the trip, less if there's a super good AP deal (last time I stayed there it was a phenomenal $49/night for AP holders, about 2 years ago). I'll arrive my usual time, having stopped at Publix, and check into Pop about 1PM. I will be sure there is a fridge in the room for the cold stuff, usually I don't get much that needs to be refrigerated, just the basic staples like milk, butter, eggs, juice. I will have a "day" bag ready so I don't have to unpack. Off to the parks, then back to the room to sleep. Next day wake up and get luggage transferred to BWV, and hopefully snag a really great room since I will be checking in so early.

Ill stay at BWV from Sun-Friday and check out Friday morning, and back into a room at Pop. I'll stay at Pop until I check out Saturday and head home on a late flight Saturday night.

So I will have 6 full days at BWV, which will make me feel more fulfilled than the 4 full days I get when I stay there sun-thurs. And it will only cost me, as I already wrote above, about an extra $150. Sounds like a plan I can live with, and one that is not going to cost me an arm and a leg, especially if I do it every other trip or every third trip. (My kids don't like to be there longer than 6 days--the old farts--so when I take either one or both of them I would not stay longer).

[Pumpkinboy]

Being a Finance wonk by profession and training, I of course have a spreadsheet comparing points and cash prices to help with my planning. This is an Excel spreadsheet I have shared with several other fellow DVCers; it's not complete but it covers the usual times my family goes to WDW (and VB). I have set the formulas so that you can set your own point-rental price-equivalent, so you can alter that assumption any time.

What throwing things onto a spreadsheet does for me is shows when it makes sense to get a cash room. For example, even without a DVC discount, it is always cheaper to get a cash reservation for weekend nights at VB (at least the times we're there, and with DVC discount, there are times when the weeknights might even be a better deal. It is also interesting that rack rate for weekend nights in a 1BR at SSR, BCV, VWL, OKW and BWV (pfd view) are at times still cheaper than points at $10 per point (Hmmmmm). If you can whangle a DVC discount, the weekend nights are also frequently cheaper using cash than points for many room types (but especially 1BR and 2BR).

Of course we still use points for weekends much of the time, when we are feeling cash-poor. And when we're feeling points-poor, we will sometimes "overpay" for an all-points weekend. And for BWV folks like me, we end up using all points anyways since we nearly always have Std or BW view rooms, which are reserve for Points reservations only. But all of our VB stays have been mixed cash and points ressies, at least they have been since I put together my spreadsheet in '04.

[lllovell]

I suspect all of our "Sun - Thurs" is ok planning is about to be tossed on its head beacause the drive that used to be fine with two non-infant children is suddenly REALLY REALLY long with a baby added in the mix. Our first year, we did 10 nights in studios (OKW), 5 nights in a one bedroom (SSR) and a long weekend at Hilton Head in a studio (January - so lowest point season) with our points. This year it is looking like 5 nights in a GV (OKW - split with friends renting points and transfering them to us), 5 nights in a 1 bedroom (SSR) and possibly the long weekend in January again to HHI in a studio.

What I am discovering is that I want more than the 5 nights and taking this many "weeks" isn't really practical when hubby doesn't have enough vacation time. It is really a pretty good drive for us (yes - much less than most of you I know - but that means we will not fly as a family...since we can drive for a little over a tank of gas each way) so I am thinking about doing Universal the weekend after. Checking out of DVC on Friday and into one of the Universal hotels (perhaps even Sea World - which we love...never actually been to Universal) as early as we can, hitting the Univ parks for Friday and Saturday and then heading home on Sunday without going to a park at all. That is what gets me. We can't seem to get out of town without hitting a park on Sunday and even if we leave the parks by noon, we just don't make it off property for 2-3 more hours by the time we eat, gas up, etc. Makes for a LATE night getting home. If we end up going less each year then I am sure our points will go towards that one bedroom (for now) which is so nice and comfy!!!

I just can't justify those weekend points except for the deadest of off seasons at HHI. So far, this is the best alternative I can come up with.

Laura

[gopherit]

We originally bought our pts thinking 5-day trips (Sun-Fri), since we drive down and would need 2 days down, 2 days back, hence, there's our Sat to Sun vacation in a nutshell. But 2 things happened - an extra kid, and a taste of a longer stay.

We now get 2BR, and we like to stay for 10 to 14 days, so we did get a small add-on to cover our pts cost. Typically we stay only over 1 full wkend though (i.e. Sun to Sun plus to Thurs, for example) By going every other year - this worked okay.
BUt now we have gotten a taste of HHI - uh oh. ONly two ways to satisfy this: add on more pts or ditch the high-pts wkends from our trips somehow.

Well, for our last HHI trip, I confess - we bailed on Sat, only paying the 'lesser" Fri night of the costly pts nights there. And this year at WDW, we will visit the dark side (shhh - Walt might hear) from Wed-SAt, then we are paying cash for SAt night at OKW before then paying for Sun-Sat at OKW on points. We are paying for a Fri nt on points - don't think I didn't think about getting it on cash, too! I'm trying to save some pts to try Vero next summer. I would love an add-on, but here's the rub - we just don't think we will always be in this pts-lean situation. Or rather, we prefer to be pts-lean than worried about losing pts or having to rent them. Will we always need a 2BR? Will we always be able to take such long trips? We don't want the hassle of trying to rent pts, nor do we feel like paying dues on pts we might not be able to use. Our vacation time is fairly well consumed with family events these days anyway, with only signs of that sort of thing increasing in the next 10-15 yrs to come. So for us, for now, the cash wkend works out. I won't lie - about 50-100 more points would be lovely! BUt what we have will do for now, with some creative "stretching", such as cash-nights.

One thing I am going to explore a bit more fully is pts transfer from other members. Just as there isn't a guarantee on how long the DVC discount is offered, I know also that there have been times when you can't get a room on the DVC discount - such as our last trip to BCV. We wanted a 2BR at BCV on the DVC discount, but there weren't any to be had. At BWV, they had some, but they were preferred view / non-BW view only (so if you have a BW room for the rest of your trip, you'll still have to move - same is true if you have a standard view for the bulk of your stay.) If I get desperate for points, I think I may look closer at pts rental/transfer from a more pts-rich member (or perhaps trying for a room at another non-DVC resort). The only way I can see doing this sort of resort hopping is if the cash-room at whatever place is at the very start of the stay or very end. I have stayed in 3 resorts in one trip before - no thanks. One move was plenty!

[tjkraz]

Third: assume that most everyone has a 'hard day' flying/driving to Disney. (Like Dr. T, I fly west to east, so my day is pretty well shot by the time the plane lands. )

Well, I can't speak for "most everyone", but I've found it pretty painless to travel to WDW from the midwest. Our last three trips we've left between 7 and 8am and were on the ground between 9:30 and 10:30am.

Crossing time zones and long distances is certainly much more difficult, but seems to me about half of the US (and parts of Canada) can make the journey in 3 hours or less.


So here's the deal. What if you took those 64 points and rented them @ $11 pp. You would 'earn' over $700.00.

Once you net out the dues you're only 'earning' $450. At that rate it will take 20 years just to break even on the investment.

No thanks.

I agree staying off-site is another viable alternative, but I don't see the logic in sinking $6000-7000 into more points to justify it.

It's also probably a bit more expensive than your numbers would indicate--particulary if we're comparing to my two bedroom. I doubt you can get a $70 room that will comfortably sleep 6-8 people. DME is out of the question so you're either renting a car or using a taxi to switch resorts. That's additional cost.

It can also be a real pain in the butt trying to manage such a move when you've got two adults juggling two kids and a week's worth of luggage for 4 people.

If all else fails and you still need that first night in your OKW unit, if you rent your points and then pay cash, you STILL make @$300 ($704-418)...

Not after paying the dues on those points. :teacher:

[Colorado Belle]

I don't much think of Colorado or Arizona as 'midwest', but here's my day of flying to Orlando:
To make a 7 am flight Mountain time that lands in MCO at 2:30 Eastern, I have to leave my house by 4am (2 hour drive plus one hour for checkin). (There are two nonstops...united and frontier which get in a wee bit earlier)

By the time I get luggage and car and drive, it is at least 3:30. Usually, I've stayed up all night packing and doing chores, so I am running on 'empty' but still like to go to the parks IF I have an AP, which I do this year.

It's true that I assumed that Tim was talking about using points he already had (64) for renting a 2 bedroom. And it is true that I didn't include the maintenance on points, so renting them out at 11 and costing 4 in maintenance nets $448. I rent a car just for me, so I guess I think that spreding the expense among 4 adults or so might make it even more reasonable.

For me, and I just rent studios, it works out great and I get to spend a few extra days both in WDW and visiting friends in Tampa so that it feels like a 'long enough' vacation. For me, it isn't worth the extra money to stay on a weekend BUT it is worth (sometimes) the extra money to get a BWView instead of standard view all the time. We all just like to get value out of our points in our own special way!
Mar, I had the same reaction from my daughter....7 days, why spend 7 days at DIsney????? Of course, she is now in a REAL job...2 weeks a year and she is a bit panicy about using up her vaca time. I'm sure it is cause we took them to Disney throughout their childhood...the spoiled brats!

Speaking of long stays: I just got back from Bunko where one of my girlfriends said she was invited to a NASA launch in late August. An astronaut invited her family, and she asked if I wanted to be in her fam....of course I said SURE. I'm planning on being at Disney Sept 4=11, so it works out rather well, except for my air, which I already have. I may be living at Disney after this...considering I am due back for F and W Sept 30. Anybody done the launch gig?