UPDATE on ME: (pg. 3) Airport to discuss Disney shuttles

[ghost1000]

Airport to discuss Disney shuttles (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-express1406mar14,0,4131063.story?coll=orl-business-headlines)
OIA panel will open up about future of Magical Express service

After a three-month delay, the board that oversees Orlando International Airport on Wednesday will publicly discuss the future of Disney's Magical Express shuttle and baggage service.

But the details of the program's future are still being hammered out.

"We have some issues out on the table," Greater Orlando Aviation Authority Chairman Jeffry Fuqua said Monday. "We have told everybody that we would give them an opportunity to express their opinion. Who knows what effect that will have on the ultimate outcome."

Though Fuqua would not elaborate on the issues, the free service -- which has become a model nationally for moving passengers and luggage -- has been controversial because of its impact on rental-car companies and taxi and limo services. Some of those companies say they have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in business, an outcome airport administrators feared even before the service began.

On Wednesday, the board expects to hear a presentation from its consultant Michael Brown. It will be the first time the airport will publicly present any information about Magical Express since the board delayed its original meeting to do so in December.

Since Magical Express began in May, it has transported more than 1.1 million passengers and their luggage between the Disney resort and the airport.

Rental-car companies and taxi and limo services pay a concession fee to the airport each month based on how much business they do. That means the airport can lose money if those businesses experience a downturn.

Disney said in December that the service boosted airport revenue by $1.6 million and has streamlined airport operations so well that it could delay the need for a costly second terminal building.

Disney spokeswoman Kim Prunty said Monday that the company is still "continuing to have discussions with the airport" on a "wide range of issues" and would not discuss the future of the service.

Disney World President Al Weiss met with Fuqua last month on the matter.

Threats have loomed for months that Disney could stop the service if the airport makes it too expensive to operate. The 18-month pilot project -- recently touted by Disney President and CEO Robert Iger -- ends in December.

At stake is how much money Disney pays the airport per passenger it transports and whether the airport will require the service be operated on both sides of the terminal rather than just one as it is now.

The airlines have largely backed the program because it has reduced their baggage-handling loads and helped shorten ticket-counter lines.

But because a group of airlines is responsible for budget shortfalls at Orlando International, the carriers have also taken an intense interest.

"You had a difference of opinion at first of what the impacts might be financially," said Southwest Airlines Properties Manager Randy Gillespie, who also serves as chairman of an airlines committee. "All we're trying to do is separate fact from fiction."

As early as January 2005 -- about four months before Magical Express began -- then-Executive Director Bill Jennings and other senior airport staffers expressed concern about the services' anticipated impact.

Minutes from a meeting of airport staffers, airline executives and a Disney executive, show that Jennings told the airlines he expected the service to reach 2 million passengers a year and it could harm rental-car companies.

"The staff at the Aviation Authority found the concept attractive; however, there are serious concerns about the impact on rental-car revenues at the Airport," the minutes state.

As part of the agreement negotiated in 2004, Disney pays the airport 50 cents per passenger. Jennings said he tried to negotiate a clause in the contract that would allow the airport to raise that fee after the first six months of the service, but did not prevail, according to the minutes.

The airport's estimated lost revenue per passenger was $7.70, according to the minutes of the Jan. 25, 2005, Airlines/Airport Affairs Committee. That figure was arrived at by a former airport consultant who analyzed rental-car data.

Disney paid the airport $589,538 in passenger fees from May to December, according to airport records.

Those records show that June was the service's busiest month last year with 168,819 passengers. Its single busiest days came on Oct. 1 and on the day after Christmas, when it carried more than 10,000 people, the records show.

On most days, however, 3,000 to 5,000 people use the free service.

[tjkraz]

Thanks for the article.

You know, I really don't know what to make of this. I feel for the companies that have lost business due to DME, but isn't that they way of the world?

Based upon comments in the article, it seems the airport is happy with the results. 3000-5000 people per day are using the service, so vacationers are happy with the results. And as long as it remains a free offering, we have to conclude that Disney is happy with the results.

The article refers to DME as "a model nationally for moving passengers and luggage." Last time I checked, we call that progress. There's a reason that we don't see diaper services or milkmen anymore. I think the only difference here is that Disney gives them an easy target at which to point a finger.

[lllovell]

I think the little jog that you missed that makes this of interest to the airport itself (who otherwise would care less about rental car companies and limo services and probably taxi services) is that those companies pay a stipend to the airport to be allowed to provide services there. This revenue was based on the income of those companies, and it must be more than the $0.50 per head Disney is paying the airport. Otherwise, it would just be as you suggested - - - progress.

I am sure Disney's claims about saving the airport money are valid, just how much are they saving them in overhead costs and construction costs needs to be figured out. I like the fact that the airport people are trying "sort fact from fiction" here and hope they get their numbers straight on all this.

Disney does have some whopping power in central Florida and no doubt this is hurting many companies that basically came into being to support Disney (or because of Disney). If they started charging for ME, as many suspect they will, I wonder what the charges will be? I dont really understand how the airport didn't have more bargaining power when negotiating with WDW, but according to that article they didn't. Ultimately, ME is definately better for the consummer at this time and by the time Disney starts charging for it, they will have run off their competition to the point that the numbers probably wont drop that significantly, so they are probably going to have to negotiate with the airport for more $$$ paid per passenger if it is taking money from the airport.

Truthfully, it doesn't effect my travel plans. If hubby couldn't take ME when we go down next time, then I would simply go and pick him up. We wouldn't pay for a service to bring him to OKW when I am already there with a car. We can't justify the cost of flying a family of 5 when we live within 6 hours of WDW, so this will probably be our only experience with ME. That said, it sure looks like MANY Disney vacationers are loving it. I hope they work this out for all those other travelers using the program.

[DisFlan]

If the airport is losing $7.70 (wow) per passenger, I can see why they might NOT be happy and want to get more from Disney. I can see why the carriers are interested, too. If the carriers have to pay more for airport fees, they might not be as interested in participating in DME.

Ultimately, ME is definately better for the consummer at this time and by the time Disney starts charging for it, they will have run off their competition to the point that the numbers probably wont drop that significantly, so they are probably going to have to negotiate with the airport for more $$$ paid per passenger if it is taking money from the airport.

Yup, I've wondered about this, too. The airport will have to get that shortfall from somewhere. I'd hate to think every passenger coming through MCO would be footing the bill because Disney won't cough up another dime or two. And what if Disney just drops the service? This would really leave the airport in a world of hurt. Which would mean even higher ticket fees for every MCO passenger.

DisFlan

[KNWVIKING]

Everybody likes to pick on the Mouse. Guess they tend to forget that if it weren't for the Mouse they'd probably still be picking oranges rather then renting cars.

Instead of the taxi & limo services crying foul, they should be finding new ways to draw customers back in. Market themselves as "THE QUICKEST way to your resort" or "Start your vacation NOW, not after ME has stopped at six other resorts first". Increase your service, don't bad mouth Disney.

Rental companies have always been in competition with taxis,limos and every other form of transport to WDW. Depending on the size of your travelling party, there was always a break even point where you were better off renting vs a shuttle. Also, one of the great selling features of WDW was the free transportation inside the resort. People don't want a rental, they want to let someone else do the driving for them. I imagine they have lost some customers do to ME, but they to must do a better job of marketing themselves. Bring in more convertables, sportier models. Lower their prices on some deluxe units. Take away the " you left with half a tank of gas,return with half a tank or we're going to charge you $5.00 per gallon" crap.

We live in a capitalist society. Keep up or drop out.

[Rozzie]

I wonder if that psychopath nutjob of a taxi driver that DH and I had the pleasure of listening to will be there.

Our morning cab ride consisted of being told we take food away from babies and that WDW is organized crime, and how can we sleep at night...blah blah blah. He had a lawsuit againist WDW about DME, and said we'd see him on TV one day as the one "who put WDW out of business." He was going to save the "American worker" by taking away 40k jobs in the central Florida area.:sosad:

Anyway, I agree with the Viking on this. I feel for those that DME has affected, but Disney is a business, and as the saying goes, Business is Business.

oh, I almost forgot that best part, the nutjob did this whole speech while drinking coffee out of a WL mug.:hammer:

[tjkraz]

I think the little jog that you missed that makes this of interest to the airport itself (who otherwise would care less about rental car companies and limo services and probably taxi services) is that those companies pay a stipend to the airport to be allowed to provide services there. This revenue was based on the income of those companies, and it must be more than the $0.50 per head Disney is paying the airport.

I understand that, but it's also a rate that the airport negotiated. If they negotiated a bad deal, they need to live with it. I can't enter into an agreement to sell widgets for $2 each and then arbitrarily raise my price to $3 each while still under that agreement.

Disney is quoted providing some figures on revenue increases, streamlining of operations and deferrable construction, and I don't see anyone from the airport disputing those numbers. I won't pretend that Disney's figures tell the whole story. The alternative is to believe that the airport entered into an agreement for $.50 per passenger when it should have been $8.20 per passenger (note the $7.70 shortfall reported by their "study.") That's ludicrous.

I've been watching this story for the past year, and it's always the taxi drivers & rental car companies raising a stink--not the airport. The airport has agreed to some changes to the DME system which worked against Disney. My understanding is they were giving Disney unfair access to the terminal from the start. If these changes were justified, so be it. But this is a free enterprise system.

[DisFlan]

oh, I almost forgot that best part, the nutjob did this whole speech while drinking coffee out of a WL mug.

LOL!:ROTFL:


DisFlan

[Colorado Belle]

I too agree with Viking.

Also, I wonder if the airlines came up with that $7.70 figure by using the rental cars perdiem for 'airport concession charge' that we pay for renting our cars at the airport...I think it is @2.00 a day. Maybe there is an 'average' rental of 3.5 days or something. But the limos and the taxis aren't charging that same per passenger concession fee as a car rental...so to compare Mickeys and Mickeys I think there needs to be a different cost breakdown.

As for the rental car companies: what I think is reasonable is that the airports all over the country get the number of cars and rental companies that the traveling public demands. ...So if people are renting fewer cars out of MCO, move the cars to Tampa or don't buy so many. Would the car rentals cry wolf if a limo-bus started taking passengers to Disney for 50 cents each way? I don't think so. HOw is this different? And I still rent cars instead of ME, when the rental rates are affordable for me.

The airlines are I think under pressure from the cabs, limos, car rental companies and that is why they are complaining. But it seems to me that this is just a bunch of crapola sour grapes from people who had a fairly easy thing going for a long time. Other airport concessions manage to thrive without having a Disney World in their back yard....jeez louise.

OK...rant over, packing for PV.

[KNWVIKING]

I believe a big player in all this is the Orlando Slantinal newspaper. They'll make a hero out of "bleepy" the taxi driver just so they can make Disney look like the big bad bully in all this.

[Leftcoaster]

I too agree with Viking.

Also, I wonder if the airlines came up with that $7.70 figure by using the rental cars perdiem for 'airport concession charge' that we pay for renting our cars at the airport...I think it is @2.00 a day. Maybe there is an 'average' rental of 3.5 days or something. But the limos and the taxis aren't charging that same per passenger concession fee as a car rental...so to compare Mickeys and Mickeys I think there needs to be a different cost breakdown.





I really have to question this $7.70 figure too. While the car rental concession fee is actually 9.8%, I just can't see how they come up with that figure. A cab is only going to cost $2 or $3 for just the pick up. So, if there's multiple people, that gets divided up. :idontgeti

[carolina_yankee]

It sounds like a whole new business model is being developed and it will just take time for things to sift out as everyone adjusts. DME is just too efficient and offers to many positives for the guest, and even the non-guest to go away. Imagine how much better it must be for non-Disney visitors to not have to battle Disney guests for their luggage, etc.

I feel for the smaller companies that were put in jeopardy by Disiney's 18 mos. experiement. I doubt they had much warning or opportunity to change their model, though over time the marketing strategies suggested here should have been adopted. I suspect a lot will change once Disney starts charging. On the other hand, I have no sympathy for the car rental companies. I pay some of the highest rates in Orlando of anywhere, and that just put me off of them.

In the future, even if DME charges $25 per person or more, I won't rent a car for nearly $190 per week when I could do a RT limo for about $100 and take a taxi for $15 for the 1-2 times I might want it on property. As for grocery stops, if I don't get one from the Limo, there are services that deliver for $10. It's worth $10 to not spend time in a grocery store to me! (Besides, I'd buy everyting in sight, anyway).

In fact, this Fall, we're flying into Naples to spend Thanksgiving with family and then going to WDW. Since we won't need a car once we're there, it's cheaper to fly from Naples via Southwest (once fares open up) to Orlando, than it would be to rent a car one way, even for a day or 2.

Dirk

[DisFlan]

On the other hand, I have no sympathy for the car rental companies. I pay some of the highest rates in Orlando of anywhere, and that just put me off of them.

This is one of the reasons we've been bypassing MCO entirely and flying in and out of Tampa. Car rates are lower, airfares are usually better, the airport is more user-friendly and we don't mind the drive. Since we usually opt to rent a car vs. other forms of transport, this works out well for us.

DisFlan

[athenna]

Any news on this yet? Inquiring minds want to know:judge:
Even though ME ticked me off Saturday:mad: I am willing to give them another chance.

[mushu]

We have used ME the last 3 trips, plan on using it on trips in the future. If Disney starts charging it depends on how much. It does add up to at least 3 hours of extra time more then the towncars, which we use to do. If they charge over 50% of the town car cost I'll go back to the towncar service.

[ghost1000]

GOAA votes to extend Disney shuttle service (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-bk-disney-031506,0,1438481.story?coll=orl-home-headlines)

The Greater Orlando Aviation Authority voted today to extend Disney's popular Magical Express shuttle service through 2011 - with a few changes.

Starting next year, the passenger fee that Disney pays the airport will increase from 50 cents to 75 cents, with an option to increase it in 2010. The shuttle buses also will move next year from the "A" side of the airport to the "B" side, and Disney will be allowed to put shuttle "greeters" on the airport's second level.

Since the free service began as a test in May, it has transported more than 1.1 million passengers and their luggage between the Disney resort and the airport.

[athenna]

Hey, thanks so much for the update!:howudoin:

[AFMom]

interesting..... My In-laws are trying to decide whether to do ME or not - but we're traveling in December and I've heard that the 'free' part of ME is ending when the 50th celebration is over. They still might want to use it - but we need to know what it's going to cost.......

[onecdn]

I just read this :reporter:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-bk-disney-031506,0,1438481.story?coll=orl-home-headlines
So looks like ME is going to be around for a while.

[Leftcoaster]

Any news on this yet? Inquiring minds want to know:judge:
Even though ME ticked me off Saturday:mad: I am willing to give them another chance.


what happened?

[athenna]

what happened?

Saturday, I was @ SSR waiting for our 2:30 ME to bring us to the airport, at 2:45 I was getting a little nervous. So the one of the CM's called dispatch and they said they'd overbooked the bus, they'd send a cab. Ok, so they weren't gonna tell me??? And overbooked doesn't sound right. The route going down was SSR, OKW, and 1 family going to FW. If the route back was the same, we were the only ones at SSR, can't imagine OKW & FW being jammed w/people then either. So a cruise line bus pulls up, they say I can't get on that cause he's only dropping off. Fine. Then an ME bus pulls up, but they tell me I can't get on that either. A cab pulls up , I give him my name, and he starts putting my stuff in the cab. How was I supposed to know he didnt speak English, and he just said yes to everything I asked him? They won't let me in the cab, cause he can't take me for free. Take all my stuff back out, another cab comes, his English isn't good either, but a CM that spoke French appeared. This was finally the right cab, driver was very nice, Disney paid for it (as they should have) and we got to the airport in plenty of time. But through this whole thing, my father was pretty upset.

[Leftcoaster]

Wow. I would've been ticked off too. Fortunately though, it did all work out in the end. I've used ME on my last three trips plus, various friends and family on their arrivals and departures without any incident. Let's hope this was just a random fluke.

[ghost1000]

Disney shuttle deal forces drivers to cope (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-disney1706mar17,0,219544.story?coll=orl-business-headlines)
Competitors say they won't survive if Disney doesn't charge for Magical Express.

A deal between Walt Disney World and Orlando International Airport to keep Disney's free Magical Express shuttle running for five more years left industry competitors Thursday grappling with how to cope with the shuttle's impact over the long term.

Until this week the popular service that shuttles tourists directly from the airport to their Disney hotels and separately delivers luggage to their rooms was a pilot program scheduled to end in December.

Other transportation providers were hoping the service would end or, at least, begin charging for the bus ride and baggage delivery.

"I don't think I'll last another six months if they don't start charging," said Leonardo Dale, owner of limousine and sedan service Image Transportation. "From 40 reservations a day we dropped down to three or four. You can't survive on that."

Disney spokeswoman Kim Prunty said the company has no plans to begin charging for Magical Express.

Though the service is free to passengers, Disney along with its contractors Mears Transportation Group and Aircraft Services International Group will pay the airport an estimated $4.4 million next year to run the program. Mears runs the buses; ASIG transports the luggage.

That new revenue from Disney could either add $300,000 to the airport's bottom line over a full year or nick it $600,000, depending on collections from ground-transportation companies.

The service, which launched in May, is shifting passengers away from rental cars, taxis and other car-for-hire companies. In eight months last year, an airport consultant estimated the airport missed out on $204,000 to $1.1 million in rental-car and other transportation revenues.

The Greater Orlando Aviation Authority, which runs Orlando International, approved terms Wednesday that would help lessen the service's financial impact on the airport and extend the program to 2011.

Disney argues it is providing other benefits, such as boosting food and retail sales at the airport, because the shuttles drop off already checked-in passengers two hours before their flights.

In turn, the company reaps the benefits of a captive audience -- visitors who stay on Disney property without transportation to leave and spend money elsewhere. Magical Express transported 1.1 million of those customers from last May to December.

Abe Pizam, dean of the University of Central Florida Rosen College of Hospitality Management, said Magical Express is the new model for other Orlando and national attractions.

"Maybe they'll have a route to I-Drive or Universal," Pizam said. "The writing is on the wall. It first started with Disney, and I'm sure others will see the wisdom of doing the same thing."

Universal Orlando and some International Drive businesses have already made inquiries about replicating the service, but it's unclear how serious those talks are.

In the meantime, other ground-transportation providers are trying to find a way to compete and continue to make money without driving their prices lower.

Michael McKenzie, who represents the Greater Orlando Livery Association, said he is planning to negotiate with airport officials to begin an on-demand luxury-car lane at the airport.

That would allow companies like his luxury town car and limousine service to take walk-up customers. Currently they are only allowed to pick up customers who have reservations.

"I think it's . . . time that they [airport officials] look in terms of how do we accommodate the small businesses also," McKenzie said.

[matysgranma]

Rita, thanks for posting the update on DME. We've used it each time we've gone and had nothing but great experiences. It's good to know that I'll be able to use it in January.

[Deep-Thots]

Yes, the actual link to the story in the Sentinel-Sun is here:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-disney1606mar16,0,7101079.story?coll=orl-news-headlines-orange

Looks like ME wound up being much more popular than Disney anticipated.

Of course, I'm sure that they won't continue to offer it to DVC members for free....

:worried:

[RweTHEREyet]

Yes, the actual link to the story in the Sentinel-Sun is here:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-disney1606mar16,0,7101079.story?coll=orl-news-headlines-orange

Looks like ME wound up being much more popular than Disney anticipated.

Of course, I'm sure that they won't continue to offer it to DVC members for free....

:worried:

Curious to know what might make them charge DVC passengers? Maybe the fact that they are not renting rooms or something else?

[tjkraz]

I see three possibilities:

1. No charge indefinitely. If Disney was sincere in its "we'll make up the money by limiting access" philosophy, and it has proven to work, they may just keep it a free service--including DVC members.

2. DVC charges us for total operating costs via dues. This could already be happening--I haven't really read either way to this point. Transportation budgets went up quite a bit this year, but gas prices could have been responsible for that. If they go this route, everyone will share the costs via dues despite the fact that not everyone will use DME.

3. Charge a per-passenger fee. If Disney decides to start charging cash guests some nominal fee for DME, they could apply that same cost to the DVC members that use it.

I really have no idea which route they may choose. Again, we could already be paying for DME, or it could truly be the "free" service it's marketed to be.