NEWS/RUMOR: DVC Survey Gives Possible New Locations

[Kmermaid]

I received in the mail yesterday a letter asking me to participate in a survey of DVC members. Has anyone else received this ? I haven't taken it yet but will later.

[minniekissedme]

I haven't but I'm also new since April...

[suecait]

I have not either. Are they asking about anything in particular?

[carolina_yankee]

No survey for me. More details to share?

Dirk

[TinkLover]

Nothing here either.

[Kmermaid]

I have not gotten around to it yet, gotta get work done before DH fires me (he wishes!). But if there are any hot topics you want them to know about let me know.

[zulaya]

Was this a little postcard? I usually receive those after each stay at a DVC resort. There's not much room for comment outside your stay.

[2nd Star]

I got a postcard a few weeks back,asking us to take a survey. In the survey they wanted to know how our stay at SSR was. I only stayed at SSR one night and the rest of the week a AKV...but I never got one from them about AKV.


My survey may not be the same as Kmermaid.

[Kmermaid]

Was this a little postcard? I usually receive those after each stay at a DVC resort. There's not much room for comment outside your stay.

No, this is on DVC stationary and is signed :rolleyes:by Jim Lewis.

[zulaya]

Well now that makes it interesting! Please report back on the kinds of questions you are asked about.

[ghost1000]

We received the survey yesterday. It starts out by asking if you've every used points to stay at non-DVC resorts. Eventually it gets to the real reason the survey was sent. Apparently DVC is looking at three additional properties and want more feedback on them.

[suecait]

And those three properties are?

Do they mention Poly, GF?

[Kmermaid]

Ok I finally got around to taking the survey. It was like ghost1000 said, they are looking at three properties to build new DVC. It started off giving a list of locations and I guess they narrowed it down to 3 according to your answers to their questions.
My list options were:
St Thomas, Disney California, Colorado Rockies, NYC, Los Cabos Mexico, Las Vegas, Puerto Vallarta, Hawaii and WDW.
After narrowing they asked questions on:
Lake Tahoe, Los Cabos and Las Vegas. Maybe they really want a place which starts with the letter "L".
Well thats my experience with the survey. Ghost1000 do you remember what your last 3 where, curious to see if they were different.

[suecait]

Las Vegas? Doesn't make much sense to me. Most people I know go for around 4 days, not a week or more. And with so many packages available, it is rather easy to get good airfare/hotel combos. I just don't see how buying points or even using points there would be wise. But maybe other more seasoned members would know more than me.

What next, would they build their own casino? Stay here, bet here, lose you shirt here?

[Kmermaid]

Las Vegas? Doesn't make much sense to me. Most people I know go for around 4 days, not a week or more. And with so many packages available, it is rather easy to get good airfare/hotel combos. I just don't see how buying points or even using points there would be wise. But maybe other more seasoned members would know more than me.

What next, would they build their own casino? Stay here, bet here, lose you shirt here?

I totally agree. Actually I gave Vegas a 1 on the 1 out of 10 scale if you would want to stay there. It would actually be 30 miles from the strip and would have transportation to the strip, but mostly it would be for those that want a desert vacation.

[zulaya]

No offense to those of you who like Vegas, but I just don't see that as fitting the Disney brand. I have ZERO interest in ever going there.

As far as Kmermaid's final 3...I don't really have an interest in any of those (no offense Kmermaid). Los Cabos...Mexico is Mexico. I was there once and that was enough. Lake Tahoe...maybe it's just being from Minnesota, but if I want a lake vacation, we've got some great ones here. I wouldn't spend the money to travel to Tahoe.

Of the original list that was posted, I love WDW and I'll get back to Disneyland at some point, those are givens. But for non-theme park locations, I'd take Colorado Rockies in a heartbeat. I can envision some Disney theming for that location and that would definitely appeal to me.

[Kmermaid]

But for non-theme park locations, I'd take Colorado Rockies in a heartbeat. I can envision some Disney theming for that location and that would definitely appeal to me.

:iagree: That is funny I gave the Rockies a 10. I sooo want to take my family on a ski/snowmobiling vacation. But the survey didn't give me that in my final 3. :headache:

[zulaya]

See, and for me, I don't think we'd go in the winter, but in the summer or possibly spring or fall. I think something like a rustic resort in the summer with some hiking, boating, swimming -pool or lake or stream - that would be so much fun. I could even see this being akin to, but different from, what I envision Smuggler's Notch must be like.

[mikayla73]

Interesting info :) Thanks for sharing.

[AZDVC]

No survey for us.....yet....?
We would NOT want to go to Vegas, waste of $$ and points.
Might be interested in summer in the Rockies.

[ghost1000]

After narrowing they asked questions on:
Lake Tahoe, Los Cabos and Las Vegas. Maybe they really want a place which starts with the letter "L".
Well thats my experience with the survey. Ghost1000 do you remember what your last 3 where, curious to see if they were different.

My final choices were the same.

[Daitcher]

It would actually be 30 miles from the strip and would have transportation to the strip, but mostly it would be for those that want a desert vacation.




Ahhhhhhh, the DVC way we've come to know and love! Take a subpar location, give little or no services, charge top dollar and turn it into the next DVC Resort. Think HH, SSR and OKW as previous examples of this. VB to a lesser extent but at least that is on the beach..........

Vegas, Ummmmm, the primary market for Disney is families. How they think Vegas is a good choice is beyond me. Sure there are owners without kids but enough to sell the place? Add ons account for quite a bit of their sales.

Mexico would have been my highest choice but again do we really need a Disneyfied Resort in that country? Seriously? I would much rather stay at one of the many great choices there that are far more authentic than to hole up at a DVC Resort in Mexico. Apparently HH/VB haven't taught them anything.




DAVE

[Kmermaid]

My final choices were the same.

Oh poo! Lake Tahoe is NOT the Rockies! Thanks for getting back to me. Maybe these are the choices they give to people living in Pennsylvania. :headscrat

[StotheK]

Hmmm...

It really sounds like they're trying to do some stuff to get some higher numbers on the west coast side of that membership map. I can see that with only 50 units at Disneyland and airfare making Hawaii a bit of a reach. They have pretty good saturation on this side of the country, but it's pretty sparse out west.

As for Vegas, I haven't gone in years (man I miss the old days some times), but I seem to recall that timeshares don't do terribly well in that area.

I also agree with the comments on Disney taking a less than stellar product and charging top dollar due to the name. I'm not actually thinking DVC in particular, they've been doing that for years. I mean after all they had to farm out luxury to Four Seasons so they could attract the Robb Report crowd, yet they sure charge 5 star prices at places like the Grand Floridian.

I think they really need the power of a Disney park to command such premium prices, so another offsite DVC well I dunno how that will work out.

Of the three mentioned, I think maybe a ski resort would work best comparatively (is the location they're looking at in CO actually anywhere near skiing?)

[Noreendisfourdisfour]

See, and for me, I don't think we'd go in the winter, but in the summer or possibly spring or fall. I think something like a rustic resort in the summer with some hiking, boating, swimming -pool or lake or stream - that would be so much fun. I could even see this being akin to, but different from, what I envision Smuggler's Notch must be like.

I've been to Smuggler's Notch for a summer vacation. Out kids were much younger and they sold it as such a wonderful family vacation with so much for the kids to do. We went to put the kids into a daytime activity and at least half the kids were crying and hanging onto their parents, "don't leave me here" type stuff. Our kids got one look at this scene and hung onto us. We left with our kids and had a blast. There is so much outdoor stuff to do there. But we paid top dollar because all of these kids activities were included in the price. Absolutely beautiful scenery though.

But I digress. I'd vote for a Lake Tahoe winter vacation destination in a minute.

[mikayla73]

Ok I finally got around to taking the survey. It was like ghost1000 said, they are looking at three properties to build new DVC. It started off giving a list of locations and I guess they narrowed it down to 3 according to your answers to their questions.
My list options were:
St Thomas, Disney California, Colorado Rockies, NYC, Los Cabos Mexico, Las Vegas, Puerto Vallarta, Hawaii and WDW.
After narrowing they asked questions on:
Lake Tahoe, Los Cabos and Las Vegas. Maybe they really want a place which starts with the letter "L".
Well thats my experience with the survey. Ghost1000 do you remember what your last 3 where, curious to see if they were different.

My final choices were the same.

I received the survey letter in the mail yesterday and my choices were the same too.

We'd mostly be interested in the Los Cabos one. We are beach people. Lake Tahoe would be the next choice, but we'd go to the coast of California before we went there. Not necessarly DL every time, but because we love California and being beach people it works out very well. :) Las Vegas we wouldn't even bother with. There are too many deals on hotels there and if we ever end up going it'd only be for a weekend or so just to see a show (DH wants to see the Blue Man Group) and check out some of the restaurants there. It's not likely we'd go back after that for a very long time, if ever.

[Deb & Bill]

We got the letter today and I did the survey. We had the same three choices, Las Vegas, Lake Tahoe and Cabos. I have zero interest in all of them and told DVC as such.

[greenban]

Ok I finally got around to taking the survey. It was like ghost1000 said, they are looking at three properties to build new DVC. It started off giving a list of locations and I guess they narrowed it down to 3 according to your answers to their questions.
My list options were:
St Thomas, Disney California, Colorado Rockies, NYC, Los Cabos Mexico, Las Vegas, Puerto Vallarta, Hawaii and WDW.
After narrowing they asked questions on:
Lake Tahoe, Los Cabos and Las Vegas. Maybe they really want a place which starts with the letter "L".
Well thats my experience with the survey. Ghost1000 do you remember what your last 3 where, curious to see if they were different.

[Emphasis Mine:]

Gotta Love the DVC. Sending out postcards to selected the already announced (and selected DVC resorts), GCV, Hawaii and BLT.

Must be another 'enhancement', surveys after the fact!

Woo Hoo!

I can't wait for my Reservation and Wait List Enhancement Survey to show up. At this rate, early 2010 is my guess!

:monkey:

-Tony

[retlaweast]

We've not received the survey yet, but a few thoughts / opinions...

The Disney brand is about family, lets see, last time my wife and I walked along the Las Vegas strip... we were offered XXX sexually related materials as "handouts" this is right in front of the name hotels. Some of the behaviors and characters that "reside" there are not in keeping with the Disney mainstream. (note: after 30 +years in law enforcement not much bothers or surpsrises me. but I just dont see families wanting to explain adult behaviors on a Disney trip) What will be the next slogan... "what happens at Disney stays at Disney" ???????

As far as Hawaii, I believe that when the new Disney Cruise Line ships are completed, there will be some type of connection between the Hawaii DVC resort and the Cruise Line on the west coast. There has been discussion on this subject in various Disney related blogs. That connection, if it comes true will be a great addition to DVC availabilities.

As far as Los Cabos.... not in any way shape or form would I use DVC points there.

Maybe we are in the minority, but we use our points to stay at a Disney park.
That's not to say we have not stayed and enjoyed Vero & Hilton Head but we bought into DVC to enjoy the parks around the world.

Happy 4th of July. Thanks to all who serve (and their families as well) who protect our great country and way of life.

[Simba's Mom]

I received in the mail yesterday a letter asking me to participate in a survey of DVC members. Has anyone else received this ? I haven't taken it yet but will later.

I would SO love to get this survey! We'd vote for the Rockies as many times as we could. Las Vegas-absolutely no interest in going there. Mexico-too much like home. We can go to Mexico anytime since we're right next to the border, and it's just plain too hot! I want a cool weather resort for a change.

[AFMom]

Lake Tahoe (or another ski destination) would be wonderful!
Las Vegas????? Whomever came up with that thought should be fired.....:headscrat

[TrvlPrincess]

How come NO ONE voted for NYC! :snooty:

that's where I live! (LOL)

:rockband::rockband::rockband:

[retlaweast]

How come NO ONE voted for NYC! :snooty:

that's where I live! (LOL)

:rockband::rockband::rockband:

There had been plans for a NYC DVC years ago, I believe at 42nd St near the Port Authority Bus Terminal. It was to be part of the upgrades in that area. The New Amsterdam Theatre purchase & rehab (Lion King) was part of the Disney plans. Unfortunately, the NYC DVC "resort" never came to pass. I did notice recently that the building (easily recognizable from the original artist concept) has been completed and looks fantastic. My understanding was that DVC was to be a tennant and was not to own the facility. So those of us who live in the greater NYC area must settle for the World of Disney Store in Manhattan for an occassional fix in between visits to the parks.

[pycees312]

seems like im the only one.. but vegas would be awesome. I love vegas and live on the west coast.. I agree vegas is not for families(just fyi everytime we have gone our kids have gone and still had a blast) but DVC is not just about families anymore.
And they need to offer more options. For those who would like at some point to travel alone or in couples or with some friends this would be great. Now i understand the reason behind the segment I shot for the travel channel. That exactly what the scenario was...

[NYDVC]

How come NO ONE voted for NYC! :snooty:

that's where I live! (LOL)

:rockband::rockband::rockband:

I would of voted NYC. would be a great weekend getaway for us. we love NYC. :bluebloun

[JimP]

Personally... I think that DVC resorts are too expensive for anyplace except for on WDW parks proper. If I want to go to the beach, skiing, etc... then there are so many great options that I really do not want to be paying DVC prices.

Buy a few good traders (resale) for use off of WDW property. Here are a few examples of some of my confirmed trades that I will use over the next 18 months:

1) Whister Village Tyndal Lodge 2BR
2) Westin Kaanapali 2BR lockoff
3) Grand Mayan - Nuevo Vallarta 2BR

The most expensive of those is about $550/week including the MFs of my traders... and the exchange fees. The least expensive is $239. All of them are better than Disney class condos... except that they are not inside of Disney parks.

Even though I could stay for "essentially free" by trading into Orlando... it is worth it to me to own DVC. However... when I leave the parks... there are so many great options out there that are better, and more affordable.

/Jim

[AZDVC]

How come NO ONE voted for NYC! :snooty:

that's where I live! (LOL)

:rockband::rockband::rockband:

We got the survey too, 7/2/08. I think we voted highly for NYC in one of the first questions. At the end they asked us about the places we didn't like as much??
Don't know if this is coincidence or planned.
Our last ones were Vegas and Cabo and something else. I like Mexico but I can't get my husband there even if we won an all expense paid trip. My hubby would take the cash option!
In the comments I asked when they are selling BLT :goodnevil.
Patsy

[Daitcher]

In the comments I asked when they are selling BLT :goodnevil.
Patsy



I believe we are now looking at early September possibly a little sooner.


DAVE

[Daitcher]

I'd love any and all options to use points at. Additonal options certainly increases the appeal and possibly the resales of DVC contracts. Would I buy at any of those, NO WAY.

Jim summed it up perfectly and I feel exactly the same way. We use DVC for WDW, nothing more.

If DVC wants to build it fine but they shouldn't count on the membership accounting for as many sales through add ons.



DAVE

[hilaw]

We also need a few more resorts to possibly play some factor in keeping resale prices steady, or to move upward.
DVC prices points higher with each new resort. The higher the DVC price per point, the better value resales become.

[hilaw]

Did the survey...
Other than to feel us out about possible other DVC resort locations, I think they were also fishing for information about trades outside of DVC resorts to other DVC options.

[JimP]

I'd love any and all options to use points at. Additonal options certainly increases the appeal and possibly the resales of DVC contracts. Would I buy at any of those, NO WAY.

It didn't work that way with HHI and VB... which is why I emphasized "possibly" above. It could also possibly drag down the resale price of on-site properties as well. An alternate theory would differentiate and then raise on-site resale prices. I am not sure which would happen.

I do think it would make the 7 month point worse.

/Jim

[mountainjourno]

I live a three-hour drive from the Rockies (Canadian) so I would be thrilled to have a DVC there... it would be nice to have as an annual summer getaway (right now, we camp in a tent each year, but oh how I long for luxury!!)

[lenshanem]

Got the survey today. (Wish they'd have sent out surveys before they made the booking change! LOL) Anyway...

In my order of preference I put Los Cabos, Las Vegas and then Lake Tahoe.

[hilaw]

The survey seemed to put Colorado on the "back burner", compared with the higher number of questions for Cabo, LV and Tahoe. For us in Hawaii, I would be interested in Colorado above the others.

[Daitcher]

It didn't work that way with HHI and VB... which is why I emphasized "possibly" above. It could also possibly drag down the resale price of on-site properties as well. An alternate theory would differentiate and then raise on-site resale prices. I am not sure which would happen.

I do think it would make the 7 month point worse.

/Jim



Not sure I agree. HHI and VB were failures from a sales standpoint. They certainly haven't led to a decrease in resale values of the other resorts.

I know that even though I only visit one of those two (VB) it greatly enhances my DVC membership. ANY resort additon, outside WDW, that we can directly use our points for, enhances the DVC product, IMO. I could care less if DVC gets killed on these new locations. Let them worry about selling these places. I'll simply enjoy having the option of usage at those resorts directly with my points, without fees.

It isn't about what I like or you like, it is about choices. Maybe the person looking to buy a resale LOVES Vegas and would like the option to book there. That option is very meaningful to them and might even get them to buy. More choices is good, period. The reverse is true as well. Any limitations they place on the product we own is bad, IMO. That includes fewer choices for trades, transfer limits, rental limits, additional booking fees and the like.


DAVE

[JimP]

Not sure I agree. HHI and VB were failures from a sales standpoint. They certainly haven't led to a decrease in resale values of the other resorts.

I know that even though I only visit one of those two (VB) it greatly enhances my DVC membership. ANY resort additon, outside WDW, that we can directly use our points for, enhances the DVC product, IMO. I could care less if DVC gets killed on these new locations. Let them worry about selling these places. I'll simply enjoy having the option of usage at those resorts directly with my points, without fees.

It isn't about what I like or you like, it is about choices. Maybe the person looking to buy a resale LOVES Vegas and would like the option to book there. That option is very meaningful to them and might even get them to buy. More choices is good, period. The reverse is true as well. Any limitations they place on the product we own is bad, IMO. That includes fewer choices for trades, transfer limits, rental limits, additional booking fees and the like.


DAVE

Dave,

I agree it is tough for me to predict. I think my viewpoint is skewed heavily by the fact that I have no desire at all (zip) to use DVC points for anything other than on WDW property. It just seems to me that WDW property is the sole thing that makes DVC worth it to me. Once you leave property... there are many great options... and I can generally get them with enough predictability to dissuade me from wanting to use my valuable DVC points.

Note that just like trading into Disney... trading into other nice resorts are all hard. However... if I am looking to book a beach vacation (just as an example)... I will be happy with multiple Caribbean, Hawaii, Mexico, So Calif, Florida, etc resorts. There is enough variety that I am pretty sure that I will get something that meets my needs... and I probably will get something better than DVC in the process. However... If I want to trade into DVC (using an inexpressive trader)... then I am at the mercy of what DVC deposits... else stay off site in Orlando, which for me is a vastly inferior option.

I guess I just don't feel that DVC is special once you move away from the 49 sq miles in LBV... or soon to be 200 acres in Anaheim.

/Jim

[NYDVC]

Not sure I agree. HHI and VB were failures from a sales standpoint. They certainly haven't led to a decrease in resale values of the other resorts.




DAVE

I know it took longer to sell VB and HHI with respect to on site DVC properties. I wonder if they took longer then other timeshare resorts of similar size. I do know they decided NOT to build additional unit at VB. What info do you have Dave to prove that VB and HHI were flops.

they certainly stopped building off property for a nuimber of years, so I am thinking your right. just wonder what "proof we have". maybe they expected those properties to sell slower?


Rich

[Daitcher]

Dave,

I agree it is tough for me to predict. I think my viewpoint is skewed heavily by the fact that I have no desire at all (zip) to use DVC points for anything other than on WDW property. It just seems to me that WDW property is the sole thing that makes DVC worth it to me. Once you leave property... there are many great options... and I can generally get them with enough predictability to dissuade me from wanting to use my valuable DVC points.

Note that just like trading into Disney... trading into other nice resorts are all hard. However... if I am looking to book a beach vacation (just as an example)... I will be happy with multiple Caribbean, Hawaii, Mexico, So Calif, Florida, etc resorts. There is enough variety that I am pretty sure that I will get something that meets my needs... and I probably will get something better than DVC in the process. However... If I want to trade into DVC (using an inexpressive trader)... then I am at the mercy of what DVC deposits... else stay off site in Orlando, which for me is a vastly inferior option.

I guess I just don't feel that DVC is special once you move away from the 49 sq miles in LBV... or soon to be 200 acres in Anaheim.

/Jim



Jim.


To be clear we do agree on this issue. I'm never using my points for the other options save for a rare VB trip.

I'm simply trying to find a bright side to expansion. I think those looking to buy in will see these expansions as a positive.


DAVE

[Richard Bruvofetc]

Haven't received the survey here in England, but as a "Johnny Foreigner" to you, all these different locations are very interesting. Look forward to hearing more.

[Daitcher]

I know it took longer to sell VB and HHI with respect to on site DVC properties. I wonder if they took longer then other timeshare resorts of similar size. I do know they decided NOT to build additional unit at VB. What info do you have Dave to prove that VB and HHI were flops.

they certainly stopped building off property for a nuimber of years, so I am thinking your right. just wonder what "proof we have". maybe they expected those properties to sell slower?


Rich


Good question Rich. Some of the facts are right in your post. They had to reduce the number of rooms proposed at VB by a large number. It just wasn't selling. HHI took forever to sell.

Also, VB opened in 1995 and HHI opened in 1996. We had two off site resorts opened within 5 months of each other. Pretty fast expansion yet since 1996 we've seen nothing. I wouldn't even count on Hawaii either until they start construction. So 12 years and counting for off site resorts. That speaks pretty clearly to how well those first two were received.

As far as comparing sales to other Timeshares, well, on HHI Marriott has managed to sell out several resorts at rapid pace. They CRUSHED DVC there. Marriott still builds there while DVC has done nothing. Also, I've discussed this off site expansion with my guide over the years because I have been hoping for more options since we do not have direct access to II. He told me in no uncertain terms that those two resorts were a "disaster" and that it would be some time before they tried that again. He was correct as it has been twelve years plus at this point.

I wish I had the exact numbers to work with but I do know that VB has about 170 rooms or so and HHI has about 100. These small resorts took somehwere in the neighborhood of 4-5 years to sell out. We've seen simliar size resorts, ala BCV, sell out in a year.



DAVE

[Kynna]

I have to agree that any options they give us adds value to the club.

I wish they would develop a resort that is closer to those of us in the middle of the country. Right now transportation costs are what limit us from making the most of our DVC. We have to travel to one of the coasts (when GCV are completed) to use our points without "trading". I prefer to be at one of the theme parks but it would be nice to be able to use points a little closer to home once and a while. I've been watching the "short stays" pretty closly hoping for something in TX and so far nothing. If there were options within a reasonable driving distance we would buy more points in a heartbeat. Bigger room at WDW one year then a getaway and a studio at WDW the next year.

I'm excited about Hawaii but I am also worried about the cost of flights.

[StotheK]

I have to agree that any options they give us adds value to the club.

I wish they would develop a resort that is closer to those of us in the middle of the country. Right now transportation costs are what limit us from making the most of our DVC. We have to travel to one of the coasts (when GCV are completed) to use our points without "trading". I prefer to be at one of the theme parks but it would be nice to be able to use points a little closer to home once and a while. I've been watching the "short stays" pretty closly hoping for something in TX and so far nothing. If there were options within a reasonable driving distance we would buy more points in a heartbeat. Bigger room at WDW one year then a getaway and a studio at WDW the next year.

I'm excited about Hawaii but I am also worried about the cost of flights.

Being a selfish guy, I secretly wish for a resort in the Smokies (then again I also buy Powerball tickets, so there ya go.) They could always do Branson :laughing:

[Kynna]

Being a selfish guy, I secretly wish for a resort in the Smokies (then again I also buy Powerball tickets, so there ya go.) They could always do Branson :laughing:

Oh' I don't think that is selfish at all! I'd love to visit the Rockies. Much more than I'd want to schlep two kids back to Vegas!
I think a mountain resort would make for a lovely family vacation.

As a coincidence I'm headed to Branson for the first time on Thursday. I have family in Arkansas that still insist that Disney is coming to Branson because they saw it on the news.

[tomandrobin]

Also, VB opened in 1995 and HHI opened in 1996. We had two off site resorts opened within 5 months of each other. Pretty fast expansion yet since 1996 we've seen nothing. I wouldn't even count on Hawaii either until they start construction. So 12 years and counting for off site resorts. That speaks pretty clearly to how well those first two were received.

As far as comparing sales to other Timeshares, well, on HHI Marriott has managed to sell out several resorts at rapid pace. They CRUSHED DVC there. Marriott still builds there while DVC has done nothing. Also, I've discussed this off site expansion with my guide over the years because I have been hoping for more options since we do not have direct access to II. He told me in no uncertain terms that those two resorts were a "disaster" and that it would be some time before they tried that again. He was correct as it has been twelve years plus at this point.

DAVE

They put HHI in the middle of a marsh at a prime Ocean community.....doh!

They put VB in a section of Florida Coast that offers nothing, but the resort....double doh!

Both resorts are great, but have serious short comings. HHI has to compete directly with those ocean front Marriotts. VB has nothing to compete with, but has nothing to offer but the resort itself.

If Disney would have followed thru with Newport Coast, that would have been a winner.....look at what Marriott did with the property.

[tomandrobin]

Disney in the Bahamas would be great! Except there already is a "Disney styled" resort and its called Atlantis!

[StotheK]

They put HHI in the middle of a marsh at a prime Ocean community.....doh!

They put VB in a section of Florida Coast that offers nothing, but the resort....double doh!

Both resorts are great, but have serious short comings. HHI has to compete directly with those ocean front Marriotts. VB has nothing to compete with, but has nothing to offer but the resort itself.

If Disney would have followed thru with Newport Coast, that would have been a winner.....look at what Marriott did with the property.

It's all about the three rules of real estate... location, location, location :)

Easy to follow when you can build stuff inside of Disney World... not so much when you have a whole outside world with no Disney parks.

[salmoneous]

Not sure I agree. HHI and VB were failures from a sales standpoint. They certainly haven't led to a decrease in resale values of the other resorts. Certainly? It's a complicated issue. The fact that folks can buy VB points for $60 puts downward pressure on prices at other resorts. Is it enough to actually move resale prices? I don't know. But I don't think anyone knows enough to put "certainly" behind either side of the arguement.

ANY resort additon, outside WDW, that we can directly use our points for, enhances the DVC product, IMO. I could care less if DVC gets killed on these new locations. Let them worry about selling these places. I'll simply enjoy having the option of usage at those resorts directly with my points, without fees. DVC is a trading system. Anytime you add a resort with unequal demand, you distort and possibly harm the system. If Disney builds an off-site resort which has 1000 owners looking to use their points at WDW each year, and only 900 owners of WDW-based resorts want to use their points at the off-site resort in a year, it's bad for the system - especially those folks who are only interested in using their points at WDW.

I think we also need to consider the impact of an outside resort on DVC's trading power. Because Disney dumps their least desired rooms into II, and because II treats all DVC trades using the average for all rooms, your trading value is harmed if the new units have low demand. It's clear that much of what Disney dumps into II are the off-site resorts. How much better would our II trade value be if DVC didn't have those units to dump?

[spiceycat]

not a whole lot better.

Orlando is the problem - it is definitely overbuild with what 58 II resorts and 72 RCI resorts in Orlando - that is a lot.

the area that get better trades have less timeshares not more.

[kimberh]

No survey here, yet. My chiropractor just returned from Cabo last weekend. He bought a Westin timeshare while he was there. It was all he could talk about. Anyone know anything about Cabo? I have never been, maybe this is why Disney is checking this area out. On the Dis, I said I would not be interested in any of the selections, but after listening to my Chiropractor on Cabo, I came home... started looking for a possible search for next summer.

[DisPodDir]

I got and took the survey. Sicne so many are talking about other locations and off site...

what about at over seas Disney parks (paris, Tokyo, etc.)? I would like to see those built to make visiting those parks cheaper. Using points would be cheaper (I'd hope) than using $$ for the hotels.

I personally like the Tahoe location, a nice ski vacation (ski in and out according to description form survey which I copied when taking survey and you can read at another DVC focused site I am member of - new here so not sure how its looked upon listing other sites) place would be good.

Vegas off the strip I am not sure about, and the Mexico beach location might be nice for a beach resort.

Mike

[tomandrobin]

If they build Vegas, they are repeating thier HHI mistake.

If they build Cabo, they are making the Vero Beach mistake.

Tahoe would only be a half year resort, maybe 3/4 year.

[JimP]

The only thing that "any of the above" will accomplish is degraded booking for all DVC members at 7 months.

/Jim

[JimP]

what about at over seas Disney parks (paris, Tokyo, etc.)? I would like to see those built to make visiting those parks cheaper. Using points would be cheaper (I'd hope) than using $$ for the hotels.

Mike,

I just drove bast Tokyo Disney today. I have a hard time imagining that I would fly to Tokyo just to do Disney. There is so much "real" stuff to do here. Plus the flight is horrid... and the cost is exorbitant. My coach seat was $1320... and I live on the west coast. When I came from Florida to Tokyo in April... I think my ticket was about $1600.

In my few dozen trips to Tokyo over the years... I spent exactly 1 day in Tokyo Disney. Similarly... on my multiple trips to Paris... I spent just one day at EuroDisney (or whatever they are calling it now).

/Jim

[tomandrobin]

The only thing that "any of the above" will accomplish is degraded booking for all DVC members at 7 months.

/Jim

Absolutely.....

None of those locations will offer the kind of draw that is needed to keep the flow of owners balanced.

Also, not sure if this was mentioned before but all those locations are west coast oriented. Was the marketing material sent to West Coast owners? We have not recieved any marketing material.

I want to apply for the job to research and develope the next couple of off-site DVC locations!

[mikayla73]

I want to apply for the job to research and develope the next couple of off-site DVC locations!

me too me too!!! :howudoin:

[Daitcher]

They put HHI in the middle of a marsh at a prime Ocean community.....doh!

They put VB in a section of Florida Coast that offers nothing, but the resort....double doh!

Both resorts are great, but have serious short comings. HHI has to compete directly with those ocean front Marriotts. VB has nothing to compete with, but has nothing to offer but the resort itself.

If Disney would have followed thru with Newport Coast, that would have been a winner.....look at what Marriott did with the property.



ITA.

They have nobody to blame but themselves. You can't pick second rate locations and expect a resort to flourish...... well, you can, Hyatt does a good job of doing that but they still have their resorts in areas with things that are appealing.

I really think DVC thinks they can sell anything they build and to some degree they are correct. You don't need to buy the most expensive piece of land to build but it needs to be in an area with wide appeal, easy access, and attractions and sightseeing close by.


DAVE

[bpmorley]

If they build Vegas, they are repeating thier HHI mistake.

If they build Cabo, they are making the Vero Beach mistake.

Tahoe would only be a half year resort, maybe 3/4 year.

Why are HHI & VB mistakes?

[Daitcher]

Why are HHI & VB mistakes?



They are mistakes and here is why.

HH is a destination that is known for beaches and golf. DVC built a resort with neither one on site. Bad location on that marsh. Add to it that dinky little pool and no on site dining to speak of and you have a resort without widespread appeal. It took forever to sell out and today has extremely low resale value. Many owners there simply flood the WDW resorts with 7 month bookings. Add to that it is a very seasonal resort with really only Memorial Day to Labor day appeal.

VB, well at least they got in on the beach this time but come on could they find a more remote area? AND I love VB so it isn't personal. The closest airport is what, 1 1/2 hours away? What else is there? Spring training with the Dodgers? Wow, that is a draw for what a month and a half? Proof is there, they couldn't sell this either and scaled the resort way back and have since sold that land.

The other mistake is that DVC simply was too new to support this. They really needed the vast majority of sales to come from add ons and not enough people bought into these subpar locations.


DAVE

[tomandrobin]

Dave has pretty much summed it up.

If HH was built on the Ocean or Golf course, it would have been much more successful. There are dozens of direct competition resorts and Disney's is probably in the worse location. Why by Disney in HH when there are several Marriotts with better location, better amenities and half the cost?

Vero Beach is a beautiful resort, with nice amenities, but is in the middle of no where. The closest major airport is Orlando, 1.5 hours away. Outside of the resort there is literally nothing to do, which does not bode well for guests. If they had built the resort 50 miles north or 80 miles south of its location, things may have worked out differently.

[bpmorley]

I never knew much about either resort. glad I know now.

[lenshanem]

They don't have spring training there anymore.

[Daitcher]

They don't have spring training there anymore.



See there you go. What is there now a minor league baseball team?

For the record I love VB. You can love something and still see it for what it is. Must be what my wife does when she looks at me everyday.:groom:



DAVE

[NYDVC]

See there you go. What is there now a minor league baseball team?

For the record I love VB. You can love something and still see it for what it is. Must be what my wife does when she looks at me everyday.:groom:



DAVE

ITA. I love going to VB because its quiet and out of the way and a great get away for just me and my wife. But that does not make it a good bussiness decision. aparently they thought many more people would buy without having the perfect location.

[TikiTwinsDad]

See there you go. What is there now a minor league baseball team?

DAVE

Actually - should say they don't have dodgers spring training there anymore. Another team will replace them soon. Rumored to be the Orioles.

[Daitcher]

Actually - should say they don't have dodgers spring training there anymore. Another team will replace them soon. Rumored to be the Orioles.



Thanks. I should know that as I'm a sports guy. Somehow that slipped by me, thanks for the info.



DAVE

[KR4eeyore]

I agree with all those not interested in Vegas. It doesn't fit the Disney brand at all....also would seem pretty odd to close the nightclubs in Downtown Disney, only to plunk a DVC right in sin city?

[RacinJs]

If the survey is for expanding DVC to places like Vegas and Tahoe - I say Yes all day! As our children have grown with our DVC memership - my hu and I have been searching for new ways to use our points! It would only add value to DVC!!! Keep us posted!!!

[bpmorley]

If the survey is for expanding DVC to places like Vegas and Tahoe - I say Yes all day! As our children have grown with our DVC memership - my hu and I have been searching for new ways to use our points! It would only add value to DVC!!! Keep us posted!!!

Honestly I don't care if they expand. I just wish it was possible to actually get a trade with II.

[Daitcher]

Honestly I don't care if they expand. I just wish it was possible to actually get a trade with II.



I would love to have direct access to II for trades with DVC.



DAVE

[acourtwdw]

I would like to be able to get a room at WDW! It seems so every date I want is always booked solid.

[Daitcher]

I would like to be able to get a room at WDW! It seems so every date I want is always booked solid.



I'd like to question this a little. When you say this do you mean booked solid at the resort of your choice or booked solid of rooms anywhere?



DAVE

[tomandrobin]

Honestly I don't care if they expand. I just wish it was possible to actually get a trade with II.

Trades are very possible, but you need to have real expectations. Even the best traders can not get into some of the better resorts.

[tomandrobin]

I'd like to question this a little. When you say this do you mean booked solid at the resort of your choice or booked solid of rooms anywhere?

DAVE

This is a big flaw with DVC. Let members make thier own deposits and trades. It would probably open more opportunities to owners.

[bpmorley]

I would love to have direct access to II for trades with DVC.



DAVE

See Dave, you may not like that I'm against booking categories, but I do have ideas that people also like. I'm in SSR right now and talked to some workers during my stay. One said he heard the idea was shot down by management.

[NYDVC]

See Dave, you may not like that I'm against booking categories, but I do have ideas that people also like. I'm in SSR right now and talked to some workers during my stay. One said he heard the idea was shot down by management.

I wonder why. my guess is they make some kind of money that way. or dont lose christmass week rooms that they can rent.

[bpmorley]

Trades are very possible, but you need to have real expectations. Even the best traders can not get into some of the better resorts.

I've had real expectations. Gave them a 6 week period, 20 something resorts and called 2 years ahead. NOTHING!!!!!! I think the whole thing is a scam.
Now since they've closed PI and it seems like BW is now the night life area, doesn't anyone thing that they should run buses over to the BW from all the resorts. If you don't have a car it can be a hassle getting there

[tomandrobin]

I've had real expectations. Gave them a 6 week period, 20 something resorts and called 2 years ahead. NOTHING!!!!!! I think the whole thing is a scam.
Now since they've closed PI and it seems like BW is now the night life area, doesn't anyone thing that they should run buses over to the BW from all the resorts. If you don't have a car it can be a hassle getting there

To get a better understanding, and to give a fair response, what was the paramaters, unit type and resorts you were trying to trade into?

[bpmorley]

To get a better understanding, and to give a fair response, what was the paramaters, unit type and resorts you were trying to trade into?

It's been a while. That 2 year search ran out this year. Actually, thanks do DW reminding me, we asked for any week in either April. May or June for 08, every resort in the carribean, california, Hawaii, & Mexico. And any size room. So I expect to get something.

[tomandrobin]

It's been a while. That 2 year search ran out this year. Actually, thanks do DW reminding me, we asked for any week in either April. May or June for 08, every resort in the carribean, california, Hawaii, & Mexico. And any size room. So I expect to get something.

If your search was that broad, I am surprised that nothing came thru. It almost sounds like Disney dropped the ball with your request, even if you had requested a 2 bedroom. I know right now on II there are resorts listed for everyone of those locations for May of 2009.

Locations like St John, Harborside, St Kitts and similar would probably not be possible, but Aruba, DR, Cancun, Maui, and others would be available.

Did you or your wife follow up with DVC or II to see if the exchange was active? I recently had a confirmed exchange that was made 4 months ago, still not entered into the resort system becuase of errors on "thier" end. I had a copy of the reservation, but there was a breakdown in communication. It took me about 4 hours, over a weeks time, with many phone calls before I finally found someone able to correct everything.

[BWV Dreamin]

I've had real expectations. Gave them a 6 week period, 20 something resorts and called 2 years ahead. NOTHING!!!!!! I think the whole thing is a scam.
Now since they've closed PI and it seems like BW is now the night life area, doesn't anyone thing that they should run buses over to the BW from all the resorts. If you don't have a car it can be a hassle getting there

No, they should not run busses over to BWV. The resort was not meant to entertain the whole Disney World complex. If you would like to partake in the entertainment there, you have options of renting a car, resort busses, or you could stay at BCV or BWV and walk there.

[Daitcher]

See Dave, you may not like that I'm against booking categories, but I do have ideas that people also like. I'm in SSR right now and talked to some workers during my stay. One said he heard the idea was shot down by management.




Oh, you have lots of good ideas BP. Just becasue we don't agree on booking categories doesn't mean that I don't like many of your other thoughts.

Hope you enjoy your trip.




DAVE

[Daitcher]

No, they should not run busses over to BWV. The resort was not meant to entertain the whole Disney World complex. If you would like to partake in the entertainment there, you have options of renting a car, resort busses, or you could stay at BCV or BWV and walk there.



I agree. That area isn't designed for that type on influx of resort guests. Right now it is just about perfect, IMO.



DAVE

[carolina_yankee]

Now since they've closed PI and it seems like BW is now the night life area, doesn't anyone thing that they should run buses over to the BW from all the resorts. If you don't have a car it can be a hassle getting there

I'm not sure the Boardwalk area has that kind of appeal - especially for younger adults (piano bar, dance hall, ESPN?). I don't think anything there could hold attention beyond dinner in one of two places (Flying Fish, Spoodles) and an evening stroll.

Besides, I'm not sure anyone who booked a BW view would want the boardwalk to become the new nightly entertainment gathering place until 2 am.

You're right, though - just what is the nightime entertainment like for folks who wanted what PI had to offer? I'm not a club person, but I definitely could have gotten into the Comedy Club and would have tried the AC at least once (and probably loved it).

Dirk

[bpmorley]

If your search was that broad, I am surprised that nothing came thru. It almost sounds like Disney dropped the ball with your request, even if you had requested a 2 bedroom. I know right now on II there are resorts listed for everyone of those locations for May of 2009.

Locations like St John, Harborside, St Kitts and similar would probably not be possible, but Aruba, DR, Cancun, Maui, and others would be available.

Did you or your wife follow up with DVC or II to see if the exchange was active? I recently had a confirmed exchange that was made 4 months ago, still not entered into the resort system becuase of errors on "thier" end. I had a copy of the reservation, but there was a breakdown in communication. It took me about 4 hours, over a weeks time, with many phone calls before I finally found someone able to correct everything.


We called once and they said it was active, that was around a year out. I don't even think they refunded the $75 or $95 they charged for the search. Now I have to check my CC reciepts when I get home.