NEWS: Major Change to Booking Windows

[administrator]

Effective immediately, Member Services has implemented a fairly dramatic change in resort booking policies.

Members can now book 11 months (in the case of home resorts) or 7 months (in the case of non-home resorts) in advance of their ARRIVAL date -- for stays of 7 nights or fewer.

For stays longer than 7 nights, Members may call on the designated day (11 or 7 months) in advance of the date of departure, and EXTEND THE RESERVATION. In other words, additional reservations and linking of reservations will not be necessary: The same reservation number will be used for all transactions.

Member Services reports that this change was implemented because the majority of Members take vacations of 7 nights or fewer.

(Previous policy required that Members book 11 or 7 months in advance of their departure dates.)

This change begins to bring DVC’s policies more in line with those of other time shares, which allow owners to book in advance of their arrival date rather than their departure date.

Edited to add: "As a result of this enhancement, waitlists are now available only for the full length of stay."

[WDWRR_ENGINEER]

Just got off the phone with Amy over at MS and yes policy is in effect today!

Love it!

Joe

[Noreendisfourdisfour]

Hmmm how does this really change anything? :scratchch

It just means all of us can book a few days earlier? And as far as linking reservations, does that make a difference? That was all done by MS anyways so it was their workload not ours.

Well whatever I am missing will be clarified to me by one of you guys!

[bigbahamadada]

Am I missing something here or does this just mean that the new window is really now 11 months and 7 days?

They might think this will reduce call volume, but won't people just start reserving entire vacations at the 11m + 7d window, calling day by day, to cancel and remake the same reservation - moving the day start day forward rather than back?

Set whatever rule they want to and it can be "gamed." Just wish they'd settle on a rule and stick with it.

[Carol]

I think the change stinks and I will be writing my first snail letter to complain!

It means that I will not have the same chance to book a particular night as someone who is checking in up to a week before me. It will make a HUGE difference to anyone who wants to book a concierge room at the AKV, a Standard View or Boardwalk View at the BWV, maybe a 2 bedroom with 2 Queens at the BCV, Beach Cottages at VB, maybe Grand Villas at OKW for certain times of the year and probably anyone who wants to book New Year's Eve at any WDw DVC resort. Also, a potentially big difference to those who want to book studios or 1 bedrooms at HH in the summertime.

Yes, it's a pain to have to call day by day, but for example, why should someone checking in on 12/1 for a week get to book 12/5 through 12/7 before someone checking in on 12/5 for a 12/5 - 12/12 trip? For room cateogries in limited supply, this STINKS! It could mean the person who wants the 12/5 -12/12 trip is out of luck for those dates!

And how long do you think it will be before people reserve days they don't really want just to get the days they do? Then the next new policy will be you can't drop days without cancelling the whole reservation and going to the bottom of the waitlist (if there is one).

I do NOT think this was carefully thought through. It's going to be very frustrating for those of us who want the popular room types in the popular times!

[erikthewise]

It makes a big difference for those dates that (members think) require reservations immediately at 11 months. In particular it will no longer be necessary to, or even make sense to, make day-by-day reservations for stays of 7 days or less, or for the first 7 days of longer reservations. This will make things easier for both members and MS.

Carol's point is a very good one though. The first time someone from e.g. BCV calls exactly at 11 months and is told there is no room, it isn't going to go over very well...

[DVC Mike]

While I like that people won't have to book day-by-day anymore, this change is open to abuse by certain members gaming the system to get a booking advantage over their fellow DVC members, as already pointed out above. Thus, I don't really like it. The former system, while cumbersome, was ultimately fair to everyone.

If I am booking Sunday - Thursday (5 nights), I can now call DVC and book Friday - Thursday (7 nights), and then call back a few days later and cancel just the Friday and Saturday night stays. I just got myself a 2-day booking advantage over those who waited until Sunday could be booked! That's not fair.

[Carol]

It makes a big difference for those dates that (members think) require reservations immediately at 11 months. In particular it will no longer be necessary to, or even make sense to, make day-by-day reservations for stays of 7 days or less, or for the first 7 days of longer reservations. This will make things easier for both members and MS.Obviously, you've never needed a standard view for early December at the BWV. Those can (and have) disappeared on the first day the window opens.

I don't want EASY, if I can't get what I want. The playing field should be equal for reservations!

[bigbahamadada]

And how long do you think it will be before people reserve days they don't really want just to get the days they do? Then the next new policy will be you can't drop days without cancelling the whole reservation and going to the bottom of the waitlist (if there is one).

Excellent point about the waitlists. I'd suspect MS will get a lot more single day waitlist requests as owners attempt to defend against the behavior I mentioned above.

[DVC Mike]

It means that I will not have the same chance to book a particular night as someone who is checking in up to a week before me. It will make a HUGE difference to anyone who wants to book a concierge room at the AKV, a Standard View or Boardwalk View at the BWV, maybe a 2 bedroom with 2 Queens at the BCV, Beach Cottages at VB, maybe Grand Villas at OKW for certain times of the year and probably anyone who wants to book New Year's Eve at any WDw DVC resort.


It will have more of a negative impact on those members than tend to book shorter trips than those that tend to book trips of 7 nights.

Someone booking AKV Concierge for 7 nights now has a huge advantage over someone trying to book AKV Concierge for just 2 nights!

[Ransom]

Another vote for the old system. I'm not looking forward to booking my next reservation under this system, particularly because I'll have to do part day-by-day anyway, since we normally stay 13 nights. So I get the worst of both worlds. :thumbsway

I liked the inherently fair method of the old system a lot better.

[DVC Mike]

Excellent point about the waitlists. I'd suspect MS will get a lot more single day waitlist requests as owners attempt to defend against the behavior I mentioned above.

Now that you apparently can't waitlist day-by-day anymore, it's not an issue...

[jbrowna]

Am I missing something here or does this just mean that the new window is really now 11 months and 7 days?

They might think this will reduce call volume, but won't people just start reserving entire vacations at the 11m + 7d window, calling day by day, to cancel and remake the same reservation - moving the day start day forward rather than back?

Set whatever rule they want to and it can be "gamed." Just wish they'd settle on a rule and stick with it.

I don't get it, but what would be the point in calling in to cancel and remake the same reservation? You could risk being put on a wait list when you cancel and try to remake. I mean, if someone else had been waitlisted for one of the days you cancel, wouldn't they then get that day ahead of you?

To be honest, I didn't mind the system the way it was...but I think a lot of members didn't like it, since it wasn't in line with how CRO handled their reservations. Now it's consistent across Disney. As far as settling on a rule: well, it seems to me it has been settled since DVC started, so they've stuck with it for over 15 years! I suspect they only changed it because of member demand, and isn't that a good thing?

[erikthewise]

Obviously, you've never needed a standard view for early December at the BWV. Those can (and have) disappeared on the first day the window opens.

I don't want EASY, if I can't get what I want. The playing field should be equal for reservations!

Since I edited my post after seeing yours, I'll assume you're now somewhat happier with it. I have called at 11 months for early Dec at BCV each year since it opened, and was able to get what I wanted without calling day-by-day.

I completely understand and sympathize that if you want (but "need"?!) a very popular room type with very limited inventory this policy might make it nearly impossible.

[carolina_yankee]

Oh, wow - the end of January 2009 is going to be fun for anyone in MS.

Correct if I misunderstand the policy, but here's a nightmare scenario:

Christmas day is a Friday. I can people booking Sunday to Sunday (12/20 to 12/27) getting what the want and shutting out people who want to book, say, 12/23 to 12/30.

New Years Eve might be less of a conflict since I suspect most people would want to leave on 1/2 or 1/3. Still, those booking for 7 days (say 12/25 to 1/1) get a heads up over those who just want a few nights, or who want to avoid the points of 12/25 and 12/26 and want to book 12/27 - 1/1.

Wow. I may actually be with Carol on this one. I'm not sure it will affect me, but it does screw the system for a lot of people.

I suspect this was call load management decision (and fits in with the dining reservation rules, actually) without putting much thought to conflicts this creates for DVC members.

Also, what does POS say about the 11 mos window? Can DVC really give an 11 mos +7 advantage?

Dirk

[mountainjourno]

Correct if I misunderstand the policy, but here's a nightmare scenario:

Christmas day is a Friday. I can see people booking Sunday to Sunday (12/20 to 12/27) getting what the want and shutting out people who want to book, say, 12/23 to 12/30.

Dirk

So what I'd do here, if I wanted 12/23 to 12/30, is book initially from 12/16 for 7 days, and then add on day by day (allowed after the 7 days) and then finally cancel my first 6 days that I don't need. This way I get an equal chance of getting Dec 25 as those who want to stay a week earlier.

Really, it amounts to more work, not less... I prefer the check out date for fairness, and keep the day-by-day!!

[Blue&Gold]

Only time will tell whether this has a positive or negative impact... I think it will eliminate many thousands of phone calls to MS---but how many will it cause because of the confusion?

We tend to vacation in 8 or 9 day chunks to cover two weekends... How do I add those last two days? Wait one day to call and then again, or do I wait a week and then run the risk of not being able to get the same room type?

I can already predict the phone call "I'm sorry, Mr. B&G... There aren't any 2BR BW views available to add to your existing reservation, would you like to move to SSR for the last 2 nights of your vacation or just shift the entire reservation to that resort because there is always availability at SSR?"

Until this is clarified, I'm in the "old way is better because it was fair" group. Who gives a rat's behind that CRO handles reservations differently? Not relevant.

[Simba's Mom]

Now that you apparently can't waitlist day-by-day anymore, it's not an issue...

I guess I'm missing alot here. You can't waitlist day-by-day? That could have been mentioned in the first post and I still would have missed it. I had to reread it to notice that the reservation policy is now 11 months based on arrival, not departure (and the word arrival was in caps). It's definitely not my day. Could you please, pretty please tell me again what all the changes are? I'm really dense today.

[Carol]

Since I edited my post after seeing yours, I'll assume you're now somewhat happier with it. I have called at 11 months for early Dec at BCV each year since it opened, and was able to get what I wanted without calling day-by-day.

I completely understand and sympathize that if you want (but "need"?!) a very popular room type with very limited inventory this policy might make it nearly impossible.Just for the record, I was never mad at you. Sorry if my post implied I was. Just wanted to dispel the notion that day by day calling was always unnecessary. I agree that most times, it is. However, there are less SV rooms at the BWV than there are rooms at the BCV. There are more than me that learned one call for the whole vacation (even if it's at the 11 month window) doesn't always mean success. Early December waitlists do NOT always come through, either. Can attest to that.

This policy will really mess up those who want concierge at the AKV - there are even less of those rooms.

And like Dirk, I can already hear the howls from those who want to stay New Year's Eve.

P.S. I agree about the want vs need. ;) :) It's definitely want. :) But then so is the DVC membership. If this policy remains, I guess my early December vacations will start on Fridays and go from 6 nights to 7 nights.

[suecait]

Ok, bear with me. I am rather new to the DVC thing. So this would mean when I am trying to book my 10 day trip instead of waiting til the checkout time I can now book the first 7 days based on my check in time & then a week later add the last 3 days? I have read about day by day booking in other posts and didn't really understand why someone would do that. With this post I think I am now understanding why people do. Day by day gives you a jump on others (like me who didn't think of such a thing & would wait an addl 7-10 days to book)? Not saying a feel cheated, just didn't know the system well enough to think of it.

Additional newby question. So if you book day by day & they link the reservations togetherm, does that insure that you will not have to switch rooms once you are there (assuming you don't switch room type)?

One more thing I thought of reading an earlier post mentioning this goes in line with CRO booking. Memory is a bit vague but I feel I have read another thread stating DVC booking & CRO booking being connected in some way. Like on line reservations. Sounds familiar to anyone? And if I am remember correctly, could this be a step to acheiving that?
:headscrat

[Carol]

......Also, what does POS say about the 11 mos window? Can DVC really give an 11 mos +7 advantage?

DirkThat part of the POS isn't a problem. DVC has the right to reduce the home resort booking advantage to as little as one month. The change doesn't conflict with that provision.

I'm going to see if I can find something in ther POS that says home resort owers have a right to an "equal opportunity" to reserve any given night. I'm not optimistic. I didn't think the "Special Seasons" process was fair, either, but at least that is in the POS so I knew about it ahead of time.

[Blue&Gold]

Additional newby question. So if you book day by day & they link the reservations togetherm, does that insure that you will not have to switch rooms once you are there (assuming you don't switch room type)?


You never had to "link the reservations together," therefore the room switch wasn't an issue. It was one reservation. You would call and say "I'm booking the first night of a 10 night stay" and the CM would set up the full reservation in the computer. Then, you'd call the next day,say "add a day" they would and so on. After the reservation was complete you'd get 1 confirmation covering the whole time period.

The point of booking day-by-day was to attempt to guarantee a specific type of room. Yes, it gave you an advantage over someone calling and attempting to book 10 days "in reverse" but since everyone had the option of making the day-by-day call, I feel it was a personal choice/risk. If it mattered enough to you to get that BW view or standard room or "close to Hospitality House at OKW" or you want the 2BRs at BCV that have two beds rather than a bed and a pullout so the kids don't fight---then you could spend the time and effort to do it.

[carolina_yankee]

So what I'd do here, if I wanted 12/23 to 12/30, is book initially from 12/16 for 7 days, and then add on day by day (allowed after the 7 days) and then finally cancel my first 6 days that I don't need. This way I get an equal chance of getting Dec 25 as those who want to stay a week earlier.

Really, it amounts to more work, not less... I prefer the check out date for fairness, and keep the day-by-day!!

Only time will tell whether this has a positive or negative impact... I think it will eliminate many thousands of phone calls to MS---but how many will it cause because of the confusion?

We tend to vacation in 8 or 9 day chunks to cover two weekends... How do I add those last two days? Wait one day to call and then again, or do I wait a week and then run the risk of not being able to get the same room type?

I can already predict the phone call "I'm sorry, Mr. B&G... There aren't any 2BR BW views available to add to your existing reservation, would you like to move to SSR for the last 2 nights of your vacation or just shift the entire reservation to that resort because there is always availability at SSR?"

Until this is clarified, I'm in the "old way is better because it was fair" group. Who gives a rat's behind that CRO handles reservations differently? Not relevant.

The only way this might work with only a minority of weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth is to permit people with existing 7 day reservations to call the next day to add day 8 and then the next day for day 9, or so forth. Othwerise, you're right. This is likely to cut a lot of trips until 7 day trips.

It might also standardize check-in days. We have enough vacation to not worry about going Sturday to Saturday or something like that, so checking in on Wednesday is fine with us (we often do this because we like 9 days and have to be home by Friday evening the following week). However, that Wednesday - Saturday is going to be harder for me because of people who start their vacation days on Saturday or Sunday.

That part of the POS isn't a problem. DVC has the right to reduce the home resort booking advantage to as little as one month. The change doesn't conflict with that provision.

I'm going to see if I can find something in ther POS that says home resort owers have a right to an "equal opportunity" to reserve any given night. I'm not optimistic. I didn't think the "Special Seasons" process was fair, either, but at least that is in the POS so I knew about it ahead of time.

I think your last paragraph is what I was getting it. I'm not worried about shortening the window for the non-owners, but adding the +7 to 11 mos so that owners have an unfair advantage over other owners at their same resort. I really should get the same opportunity as anyone else for booking the dates I want at my home resort.

I predict an explosion in the next few months when people start dealing with the realities of this.

Dirk

[suecait]

Thanks Blue & Gold for explaining that to me. Now I understand. (At least for now.)

[DVC Mike]

I guess I'm missing alot here. You can't waitlist day-by-day?

According to MS, the option to waitlist day-by-day is no longer available.

I can't wait for DVC to publish all this on DVCMember.com

[Blue&Gold]

I predict an explosion in the next few months when people start dealing with the realities of this.

That's an understatement.

[jbrowna]

I've always been flexible enough with my DVC and WDW trips that I don't see any of this as a problem. When I call -- especially if I'm calling in the 11 month window -- I'm not set on what I have to have, either date wise or resort/roomwise. If my first choice is available, great, if not, what else have you got? Rarely have I had my airline tickets or days off arranged first. I get my DVC reservation, and then plan the rest of my vacation around that.

I suppose if I simply had to have a certain accommodation on a certain date I might feel differently. But at this point, I don't look at it as some sort of competition with my fellow DVC'ers in which I need to angle for some sort of advantage! If I happen to get some special room -- like AKV concierge -- then great. If not -- hey it's a vacation, not a contact sport!

Actually, DW and I managed to get a couple of nights AKV concierge in September. We weren't trying for it, but MS mentioned that a room was available for the two nights we wanted to book. We looked at it as a nice bit of pixie dust that came our way! If someone else wants it so badly that they have to stretch the rules and shove aside other folks to get it -- then they can have it! I know, some will feel that, with all the $$$ they're paying into DVC, they deserve better. Me, I figure it's only money, and not worth getting worked up over. I'll still have a great vacation, 'cause it's at WDW.

Peace out, folks! :flowerfor

[mountainjourno]

I've always been flexible enough with my DVC and WDW trips that I don't see any of this as a problem. When I call -- especially if I'm calling in the 11 month window -- I'm not set on what I have to have, either date wise or resort/roomwise. If my first choice is available, great, if not, what else have you got? Rarely have I had my airline tickets or days off arranged first. I get my DVC reservation, and then plan the rest of my vacation around that.

I suppose if I simply had to have a certain accommodation on a certain date I might feel differently. But at this point, I don't look at it as some sort of competition with my fellow DVC'ers in which I need to angle for some sort of advantage! If I happen to get some special room -- like AKV concierge -- then great. If not -- hey it's a vacation, not a contact sport!

Actually, DW and I managed to get a couple of nights AKV concierge in September. We weren't trying for it, but MS mentioned that a room was available for the two nights we wanted to book. We looked at it as a nice bit of pixie dust that came our way! If someone else wants it so badly that they have to stretch the rules and shove aside other folks to get it -- then they can have it! I know, some will feel that, with all the $$$ they're paying into DVC, they deserve better. Me, I figure it's only money, and not worth getting worked up over. I'll still have a great vacation, 'cause it's at WDW.

Peace out, folks! :flowerfor

That's all lovely that you're so flexible, and don't care what type of room etc etc, but that simply isn't the case for everyone. Some people require a certain type of room (eg, 2-bedroom due to number of kids), others bought a certain number of points believing they would be adequate for their vacations if they chose the "value" DVC options. And some can only get holidays at peak DVC times. Ultimately, all anyone is getting "worked up" over is a change to booking procedures that could preclude people getting a fair chance at the rooms. And others"stretching the rules and shoving aside other folks" aren't doing that at all - they're just doing what they can to get the same opportunity to get the room that someone, who happens to be travelling a few days earlier than them - is able to book.

If you aren't bothered by this change, please don't insinuate those who are bothered are getting irrationally "worked up" and need to "peace out"... it doesn't make for a very peaceful discussion.

[Blue&Gold]

Well, unfortunately some of us don't have that kind of flexibility and reserving day-by-day wasn't an advantage... It was open as an option to every owner. If anything, the new rule opens up the question of "advantage" more than the old one.

[Carol]

I've always been flexible enough with my DVC and WDW trips that I don't see any of this as a problem. When I call -- especially if I'm calling in the 11 month window -- I'm not set on what I have to have, either date wise or resort/roomwise. If my first choice is available, great, if not, what else have you got? Rarely have I had my airline tickets or days off arranged first. I get my DVC reservation, and then plan the rest of my vacation around that.

I suppose if I simply had to have a certain accommodation on a certain date I might feel differently. But at this point, I don't look at it as some sort of competition with my fellow DVC'ers in which I need to angle for some sort of advantage! If I happen to get some special room -- like AKV concierge -- then great. If not -- hey it's a vacation, not a contact sport!

Actually, DW and I managed to get a couple of nights AKV concierge in September. We weren't trying for it, but MS mentioned that a room was available for the two nights we wanted to book. We looked at it as a nice bit of pixie dust that came our way! If someone else wants it so badly that they have to stretch the rules and shove aside other folks to get it -- then they can have it! I know, some will feel that, with all the $$$ they're paying into DVC, they deserve better. Me, I figure it's only money, and not worth getting worked up over. I'll still have a great vacation, 'cause it's at WDW.

Peace out, folks! :flowerfor
I'm happy it's not a problem for you. But I sure don't see anybody here trying to stretch rules or shove aside other people.

All I'm after is the same opportunity to reserve the exact same thing as any other owner has. I just want to get in line at the same time everyone does.

It seems to me that DVC is the one "shoving aside" some members to make life easier for themselves and a subset of members. In my book, that's just plain wrong.

[zulaya]

I think MS was thinking this would save everyone those day-by-day phone calls.

The MBA who probably came up with this probably doesn't own DVC nor knows the trials and tribulations of reserving hard to get rooms at popular times.

I agree that some people will scam the system and book a week out and then adjust their dates.

HOWEVER, those people are going to need a lot of points, depending on the unit size, and might have to borrow to make that happen. Will most people be willing to borrow, as that is a final transaction? I'd venture to guess not.

Will this still be a problem? Most definitely. It will affect someone.

I myself have my reservations for next year set. So maybe there will be time for this to either work itself out or reverse back to the system we had. I'm trying for a GV at AKV in 2010 so there's time.


But I'll sound out with others in saying that the new way is not going to make it fair. The old way was fair to all members. You could choose to call day by day or not.

And to say they are streamlining with CRO is irrelevant and not true. They don't do that with CRO rooms. And as for dining...well, it's actually 10 days out that you can reserve ADRs and my understanding is that they don't release all the tables at 180+10 anyway.

MS really can't hold off on releasing some units one day and 7 days later, release the rest. It just won't work.

Someone messed up and they need to fix it or a lot of members are going to be ticked off.

[burcs]

i'm still trying to digest/process this. i agree that it is unfair, for all the reasons mentioned. is it also correct to say it is unfair for those who do not have enough points for the "advance" reservation that would be cancelled? i hope i'm presenting this clearly; what i am trying to ask is that only people who have enough points available to make a 7 day reservation (which would include a weekend) would be able to "game" this new system, right?

kinda sucks for small add ons and resales (at least it seems to me).

[Carol]

If they keep the policy, you can be sure that eventually (if not right away) MS will not allow members to drop days from a reservation. You'd have to cancel and rebook. Then if there were a waitlist you'd go to the bottom of it.

So anyone who tried to get Christmas by booking it as the end of a week's vacation that starts on the 18th would not be able to do so unless he / she really intended to check in on the 18th. When they call to drop the first several days, MS would just cancel the entire reservation and they would start thier reservation all over. If there is a waitlist for 12/25, then they would go to the bottom of it and someone ahead of them would get the day from the reservation they tried to just change. (Too bad for someone whose plans really changed several months after making a reservation. Under the "old but fair" system, you could easily drop a day at the beginning or end of your resevation)

I don't know any other way to "game" the system. This system just allows some people to reserve certain things before it allows other people to do so.

[jbrowna]

Ultimately, all anyone is getting "worked up" over is a change to booking procedures that could preclude people getting a fair chance at the rooms. And others"stretching the rules and shoving aside other folks" aren't doing that at all - they're just doing what they can to get the same opportunity to get the room that someone, who happens to be travelling a few days earlier than them - is able to book.


But isn't everyone still in the same boat? Someone who happens to travel a few days earlier than you might be able to book a certain room, but what about the person who happens to be traveling a few days after you? Doesn't it all even out? I know, that may not be any comfort to someone who's just missed out, but isn't it -- just like now -- a matter of luck at that point? Under the old system, get put on hold for an extra few minutes and you could still miss out, right?

My apologies if my comments offended -- which they seem to have done. As I said, I have a different perspective. My sister-in-law died in February of ALS, and my father of leukemia in May, so forgive me if I don't see this as such a big deal. With all the other unfair things that life seems to throw at people, this bit of unfairness doesn't seem to me to be all that critical. I don't think anyone's being irrational -- in fact, most of the arguments I'm hearing are very rational. They're just about an issue that I don't feel that strongly about at this point in my life, ok?

[greenban]

IMHO this is bad, probably very bad.

If (notice the word 'if'), this is a portend of things to come, i.e. to make the DVC more like other timeshares, that implies a big marketing push to me and a further dilution of the brand..... not good.

If (that word again) this is to make the CRO ressie system and the DVC ressie system more compatable (and I believe this one), then remember the blasting I got about the no name change rumor....... Well then I think that rumor is gonna be a fact.

However, as correctly pointed out this new rule is very unfair. And rife for abuse.

As a professional renter, this will allow me and others to game the system, and lock many Owners out of high demand times, it is really just totally unfair in terms of equalitity. I'm not gonna post out the mechanisms to game this development in this thread, but 3 techniques immediately come to my mind.

If this change stands, expect to see limitations on cancelling ressies as MS' work load skyrockets (may take a full year for the dimwits at MS to figure it out). Then with ressies and cancellations counting, many of the Non-Renting Owners of the DVC will trip the 20 year ressie per year bright line test. If all 24 ressies are in your name, no problem, but if you gave DSis a vacation, she may be contacted to prove you didn't rent, or maybe you'll just get the DVC Legal warning letter!

This is very bad, bad because it hurts owners (sorry if you don't see how), bad because it lessons the DVC brand, bad because this was done in a vacuum, 'damn the Owners, full speed ahead, and bad, because it is a poorly thought, soopid poopie head decision.

Interesting times are upon us people, interesting times!

-Tony

P.S. I'm still gonna buy BLT......but I am getting nervous

[cincinmouse]

Before I pass judement on this I have not seen when can we add on to the reservation???

For example I want August 1-10th. I call and reserve the 1-7 at my 11 month window for the 1st and book 7 days. Now when can I add the 8th, 9th, and 10th.? Can I call then next day or do I need to wait for the 11 month window for the 8th day and book up to another seven days but only use 3 of them.:veryconfu

[Grandbuddy]

Surely MS will realize they must implement a policy that a change in a reservation made in this manner (dropping initial days) will require that the reservation be canceled and a new one made - waitlisting, if necessary. And if this change is implemented, it will make things very difficult on members who have a pressing need to change a reservation, and are not trying to game the system.

I'm a new member, and was not looking forward to day-by-day booking. However, it was an inconvenience I was willing to put up with, to try to get the accommodations I will want in high-demand times. I'm not looking forward to being locked out by mega-point owners tying up units for commercial purposes. (No directed at you, my green friend.)

[mountainjourno]

But isn't everyone still in the same boat? Someone who happens to travel a few days earlier than you might be able to book a certain room, but what about the person who happens to be traveling a few days after you? Doesn't it all even out? I know, that may not be any comfort to someone who's just missed out, but isn't it -- just like now -- a matter of luck at that point? Under the old system, get put on hold for an extra few minutes and you could still miss out, right?

My apologies if my comments offended -- which they seem to have done. As I said, I have a different perspective. My sister-in-law died in February of ALS, and my father of leukemia in May, so forgive me if I don't see this as such a big deal. With all the other unfair things that life seems to throw at people, this bit of unfairness doesn't seem to me to be all that critical. I don't think anyone's being irrational -- in fact, most of the arguments I'm hearing are very rational. They're just about an issue that I don't feel that strongly about at this point in my life, ok?

The point is that it gives anyone - myself included - an advantage to book dates where someone booking after us doesn't get that advantage. So if I want Christmas at Disney, I'd better plan to arrive on the night of the 18th or forget it. Too bad if I can't get off work until the 23rd.

And sorry to hear that you have suffered some losses in your family, but we are still entitled to decide what is and isn't important enough for us to discuss and try to change. If this doesn't seem like a big deal to you, then why participate in the discussion at all? Clearly you have more important things to do. But I would like to continue discussing how this affects us with people who care about this topic, in a rational matter, without being told to suck it up or that life throws stuff at people that is unfair. I prefer to do something about the unfairness when I can.

Again, I'm sorry for your losses - I know only too well how it feels to lose family and friends to horrible illnesses and don't wish that on anyone.

[greenban]

I just called MS twice to verify the following, both Advisors were newer CMs that I hadn't spoken to in the past. They both:


Confirmed the 11 + 7 rule (or 11 months from the ARRIVAL date)
Confirmed that you could add on-day-by-day also using the 11 Month + 7 day rule!


So if these two are correct and you had a 14 day stay planned from December 1, 2009 through December 15, 2009.

You could call January 1st, 2009 (if MS is open) and book December 1-8, and on January 8th you could add the night of December 8th, and so-on, day-by-day.

At least that part is fair, just not the ability to snag high demand dates by booking a Saturday night stay (for example......)

-Tony

[mountainjourno]

I just called MS twice to verify the following, both Advisors were newer CMs that I hadn't spoken to in the past. They both:


Confirmed the 11 + 7 rule (or 11 months from the ARRIVAL date)
Confirmed that you could add on-day-by-day also using the 11 Month + 7 day rule!


So if these two are correct and you had a 14 day stay planned from December 1, 2009 through December 15, 2009.

You could call December 25th, 2008 and book December 1-8, and on December 26th, 2008 (If MS were open) you could add the night of December 8th, and so-on, day-by-day.

At least that part is fair, just not the ability to snag high demand dates by booking a Saturday night stay (for example......)

-Tony


Tony - I called an hour ago and was told the opposite - that you could book the 11+7, but then would need to wait a week to book the remaining days (so, book 11+7, and then wait a week to book days 8,9,10 etc...

[Blue&Gold]

Surely MS will realize they must implement a policy that a change in a reservation made in this manner (dropping initial days) will require that the reservation be canceled and a new one made - waitlisting, if necessary. And if this change is implemented, it will make things very difficult on members who have a pressing need to change a reservation, and are not trying to game the system.


But this would be patently unfair, given that DVC transactions are based on a per-night point cost. If the system were based on weekly reservation blocks, like many timeshares, I would not see the injustice, but there clearly are plenty of circumstances that cause a reservation to "shift" or be trimmed from the front end... Say I intend to travel Friday-Friday and make my ressie at the new 11 plus 7 days mark... We later learn that I can't depart until Saturday---previously I would just drop the first day (opening a hole for someone on a wait list, potentially) and I'd be taking my chances that the next Saturday is available. Under the "make a change and it's all cancelled" concept I should drop to the back of the line? Why? My reservation for Sat-Fri was "fairly" made and "paid for." Institute this rule and our contracts go up for sale the next day. The flexibility of this system has been a major plus for us and a loss of that flexibility would be a huge disincentive.

[greenban]

Tony - I called an hour ago and was told the opposite - that you could book the 11+7, but then would need to wait a week to book the remaining days (so, book 11+7, and then wait a week to book days 8,9,10 etc...


Hey MouseOwners!

Are you up to a challenge?

Lets show DVD that we DVC Owners aren't going quietly into the night......

Please call MS and ask specifically about the new 11+7 booking policy and if you have a ten day vacation can you add on at 11+7 day-by-day after the first 7 days are booked, or is it like Mountainjourno was told?

Call early and call often, try and write down the CM's names and we'll post a tally at this thread ==> http://www.mouseowners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=158925#post158925

-Tony

[Blue&Gold]

Tony - I called an hour ago and was told the opposite - that you could book the 11+7, but then would need to wait a week to book the remaining days (so, book 11+7, and then wait a week to book days 8,9,10 etc...

That's ridiculous, to say the least. Even more ridiculous is the fact that DVC didn't bother to train the MS CMs to have a consistent answer.

I know Tony understands how frosted this makes me on principle... The old rule may have been labor-intensive, but it was fair and widely understood. For DVC to implement this rule without training to their employees, without prior notification to the membership, without comment at the annual meeting, etc. shows a most unprofessional approach to the whole business.

[Grandbuddy]

But this would be patently unfair, given that DVC transactions are based on a per-night point cost. If the system were based on weekly reservation blocks, like many timeshares, I would not see the injustice, but there clearly are plenty of circumstances that cause a reservation to "shift" or be trimmed from the front end... Say I intend to travel Friday-Friday and make my ressie at the new 11 plus 7 days mark... We later learn that I can't depart until Saturday---previously I would just drop the first day (opening a hole for someone on a wait list, potentially) and I'd be taking my chances that the next Saturday is available. Under the "make a change and it's all cancelled" concept I should drop to the back of the line? Why? My reservation for Sat-Fri was "fairly" made and "paid for." Institute this rule and our contracts go up for sale the next day. The flexibility of this system has been a major plus for us and a loss of that flexibility would be a huge disincentive.

I have no idea what I'm talking about. Like I said, I haven't dealt with any of this, yet. It just seems the new system will be so open to abuse.... But I obviously don't have the solution.

[zulaya]

Ugh. I can just see the ugliness happening the more I think about it.

This is not your average run of the mill inconvenience. Like your favorite bread isn't available so you wait until the next day when there is a delivery or you get something else.

Hello??????!?!!?!??!

This is vacation time they are mucking around with. If you only own at one resort, you can't very well even look at something else at the 11 month window if you are shut out. You have to waitlist OR you have to wait for the 7 month window.

Nightmare in the making...

[carolina_yankee]

That's ridiculous, to say the least. Even more ridiculous is the fact that DVC didn't bother to train the MS CMs to have a consistent answer.

I know Tony understands how frosted this makes me on principle... The old rule may have been labor-intensive, but it was fair and widely understood. For DVC to implement this rule without training to their employees, without prior notification to the membership, without comment at the annual meeting, etc. shows a most unprofessional approach to the whole business.

I wonder if the conflicting information has to do with DVC reading the flameouts about this on the DVC boards?

To be honest, IF (Tony's Big Word of the Day) this is the way it will work, I'm less concerned about the effect to longer vacations - BUT it still creates an advantage for folks who arrive earlier for peak events.

Anyone want to revise their thoughts on the value of DVC re-sales thread should this policy stick?

Dirk

[DVC92]

I just called MS twice to verify the following, both Advisors were newer CMs that I hadn't spoken to in the past. They both:


Confirmed the 11 + 7 rule (or 11 months from the ARRIVAL date)
Confirmed that you could add on-day-by-day also using the 11 Month + 7 day rule!


So if these two are correct and you had a 14 day stay planned from December 1, 2009 through December 15, 2009.

You could call December 25th, 2008 and book December 1-8, and on December 26th, 2008 (If MS were open) you could add the night of December 8th, and so-on, day-by-day.

-Tony

Tony,

I'm not sure you got that right. Wouldn't you have to wait until January 1, 2009 to book December 1-8?

DVC92

[Blue&Gold]

I have no idea what I'm talking about. Like I said, I haven't dealt with any of this, yet. It just seems the new system will be so open to abuse.... But I obviously don't have the solution.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not at odds with your post or thought process... You aren't the first to bring forward the "make a change and lose your entire ressie" concept---and I understand you weren't suggesting it would be a good thing.

[greenban]

Tony,

I'm not sure you got that right. Wouldn't you have to wait until January 1, 2009 to book December 1-8?

DVC92

HA!

You were lying in ambush to prove the frog wrong weren't you!

But if you can book 11 months + 7 days BEFORE arrival date, then, you'd, ahhh, uhmmmm, errrrr, what I meant to say.....


You are correct, you still can only book 11 months before the arrival date.

Thanks for pointing that out, DVC92, I am going to edit my original post.

<sheesh!>

-Tony

[DVC92]

HA!

You were lying in ambush to prove the frog wrong weren't you!

<sheesh!>

-Tony

It's a rare occasion when the frog is incorrect!

[tammymacb]

Wow! Spend 3 nights at WDW and come home to be totally mystified...who woulda thunk?:idontgeti

I "get what MS is doing" but I haven't figured out all of the ramifications yet. I know ( for me ) that this is a very bad thing.

1) I drive and take several 3-5 night trips a year.
2) I work every weekend in the ER. I never, ever use my weekends ( I only get 4 whole weekends off a year ) for WDW. I use them to go out of the country and dive or go to visit family etc..
3) After over 20 trips to WDW the ONLY reason I ended up buying DVC was for the 11 month availability at BWV in early December. I check in either Sunday evening or Monday AM and check out Friday.

I'm going to try to figure out how to go about planning Dec 09 ( by then, trial and error will have figured out a lot ) but if I want to check in Dec 14th through the 19th, instead of calling day by day..????

AAAAACK.

:bagovermy

[bigbahamadada]

Lot's of things wrong with this, but how about this one.

Say two owners want to book 2 bedroom at OKW from Dec. 2 to December 7. Points needed for the reservation is 174.

Owner 1 holds 180 points.

Owner 2 holds 300 ponts.

The earliest Owner 1 can call and reserve the reservation is would be December 26 of preceeding year, to book the 5 nights.

Owner 2 can call on two days earlier, December 24, and book November 30 - December 7. Then later call back and cancel the first two nights.

Because Owner 2 has the enough points to hold 7 nights, he gets an advantage over Owner 1, who only has enough points to hold 5 nights. Not exactly as fair as the prior system, eh?

And, as the Frog previously observed, this aspect alone is a serious advantage for the professional renter (no judgment intended).

Moreover, it seems the way Owner 1 can defense (and it may not be effective) against this outcome is to make/cancel a series of reservations that are intended to be cancelled rolling into the desired arrival date.

Rather than reduced call volume, I'd suspect that CMs should get really used to the phrase -- "I'd like to add a day and delete a day to an existing reservation."

[administrator]

I received ambiguous information about the day-by-day vs. day-of-departure rule. In one instance, she said DBD was okay, but in the next, she said DOD. When I asked for clarification, she re-iterated the DOD.

Who knows?

Maybe they just haven't made up their minds yet. Based on the software, I'd say there's probably no way they can prevent you from doing DBD.

JMO. YMMV.

[Blue&Gold]

Idiots. Amateurs.

The best way to have done this, honestly, would have been to have posted the proposed rule change on the member website, asking members for comment. Then, after fanatics like us have disected and commented on the proposal, make their decision.

[cincinmouse]

I know we don't like to talk about that other board but I have been keeping track of this discussion on both of them as I believe this has officially topped the plastic cup in studios discussion. I don't like to steal info but thought it was important enough issue to cross party lines and copy this from somewhere else and post it here.

I wrote MS about this change this morning expressing my concerns and asking what prompted this change. The following is the response.
Dear Rebecca,

Thank you for contacting Member Services.

The Booking Window change is correct. It will now be 7 or 11 months in
advance of your check in date.

The change came about to enhance our Members Satisfaction with the
reservation process. We have received tremendous feedback about having
to wait until 7 or 11 months from the check out date to request a
reservation. Members that have attempted to make a reservation night by
night have found this workaround inconvenient and time-consuming.

Member Services just found out about this change this morning and it
went to effect this morning. We are advising Members, who are
confirming at the 7 or 11 month window, of this change and there will be
an article in the Fall Edition of the Disney Files Magazine about these
changes.

We appreciate your comments and concerns about this change. I have
forwarded a copy of your email to your Leadership Team.


MEA CULPA, MEA MAXIMA CULPA:worship:

[greenban]

Idiots. Amateurs.

The best way to have done this, honestly, would have been to have posted the proposed rule change on the member website, asking members for comment. Then, after fanatics like us have disected and commented on the proposal, make their decision.

B&G I rarely disagree with you brillant posts.

However, you are being unfairly insulting in the above quoted post.

Please consider apologizing to Idiots and Amateurs everywhere ;)

-Tony

[cheyenne]

I know we don't like to talk about that other board but I have been keeping track of this discussion on both of them as I believe this has officially topped the plastic cup in studios discussion. I don't like to steal info but thought it was important enough issue to cross party lines and copy this from somewhere else and post it here.

I wrote MS about this change this morning expressing my concerns and asking what prompted this change. The following is the response.
Dear Rebecca,

Thank you for contacting Member Services.

The Booking Window change is correct. It will now be 7 or 11 months in
advance of your check in date.

The change came about to enhance our Members Satisfaction with the
reservation process. We have received tremendous feedback about having
to wait until 7 or 11 months from the check out date to request a
reservation. Members that have attempted to make a reservation night by
night have found this workaround inconvenient and time-consuming.

Member Services just found out about this change this morning and it
went to effect this morning. We are advising Members, who are
confirming at the 7 or 11 month window, of this change and there will be
an article in the Fall Edition of the Disney Files Magazine about these
changes.

We appreciate your comments and concerns about this change. I have
forwarded a copy of your email to your Leadership Team.


MEA CULPA, MEA MAXIMA CULPA:worship:


And yet on the member site it still says " You have exclusive access to request reservations using your Home Resort Vacation Points at your Home Resort 11 to eight months in advance of the check-out date."

It would be really nice if there was some consistency & with a major change like this do the powers that be seriously think waiting until the Fall Edition to break the news is a good idea? :huh:

[zulaya]

That is one of my biggest beef's with DVC...their lack of prompt communication.

It's not like they don't have the email addresses of everyone who's provided them.

Why not do an email blast using that database, announcing this new policy? Instead of letting people find out about it through the internet?

Unless this is their way of "soft opening"...testing it out, so in case we all hate it or it doesn't work out, they don't have to reverse an "official" decision that was printed on the website.

[carolina_yankee]

I know we don't like to talk about that other board but I have been keeping track of this discussion on both of them as I believe this has officially topped the plastic cup in studios discussion. I don't like to steal info but thought it was important enough issue to cross party lines and copy this from somewhere else and post it here.

Member Services just found out about this change this morning and it
went to effect this morning. We are advising Members, who are
confirming at the 7 or 11 month window, of this change and there will be
an article in the Fall Edition of the Disney Files Magazine about these
changes.


Hey, gang! Let's make a major change today that affects how over 115,000 DVC members have to plan and book their vacations and not announce it until the fall publication of a magazine that takes weeks to deliver!! Oh, even better, lets allow the news to dribble out through filter of individual MS CMs who may or may not understand the rules, and encourage them to only tell people as they call in . . .

I'm not into name calling, but I do agree with Tony. B&G needs to apologize to idiots and amateurs.

Dirk

[pycees312]

Hey MouseOwners!

Are you up to a challenge?

Lets show DVD that we DVC Owners aren't going quietly into the night......

Please call MS and ask specifically about the new 11+7 booking policy and if you have a ten day vacation can you add on at 11+7 day-by-day after the first 7 days are booked, or is it like Mountainjourno was told?

Call early and call often, try and write down the CM's names and we'll post a tally at this thread ==> http://www.mouseowners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=158925#post158925

-Tony

Tony you are so funny!!
Just FYI the DVC folks do read this board so im sure they are preparing for this. :hyper:
I'm a new DVC owner and im not skilled or knowledgable enough yet to want a specific room type etc. I just book what I can book and i'm happy im going somewhere Disney. I suppose somewhere down the line i'll be on the other end of the stick. My hats off to you all who know what you want so far in advance. I have yet to call for anything at the 11th month window. I'm more like 3 months or less and i've ben satisfied so far.

[Daitcher]

While I like that people won't have to book day-by-day anymore, this change is open to abuse by certain members gaming the system to get a booking advantage over their fellow DVC members, as already pointed out above. Thus, I don't really like it. The former system, while cumbersome, was ultimately fair to everyone.

If I am booking Sunday - Thursday (5 nights), I can now call DVC and book Friday - Thursday (7 nights), and then call back a few days later and cancel just the Friday and Saturday night stays. I just got myself a 2-day booking advantage over those who waited until Sunday could be booked! That's not fair.



Well, you ust told everyone here about it so we all have the same plan. Again why do people tell others on a public forum how to game the system? You might as well tell people to go ahead and do just that.


DAVE

[carolina_yankee]

Well, you ust told everyone here about it so we all have the same plan. Again why do people tell others on a public forum how to game the system? You might as well tell people to go ahead and do just that.


DAVE

I think part of this is conversation that Mike's trying to get out to show that the new system isn't going to solve any problem and may make things even worse. And, if you follow the rules (that is, do what MS lets you do), is it even gaming the system?

Dirk

[tammymacb]

I think if Disney doesn't want people "gaming" the system, a percentage of rooms should be held back for owners who don't want to stay 7 nights. Those rooms should become available at exactly 11 months.

I bought and paid for my BWV points just like everyone else. Why should I have a 2 day lag on a standard view room at Christmas just because I don't want to stay on a Saturday night?

I have no idea what the percentage of "full week" folks are out there.

[Blue&Gold]

I will now call idiots and amateurs "DVC Management."

It may confuse them, but it will be accurate.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be personal (over the top sarcastic, perhaps). But, I do think this could have been done better, like the AKV roll-out.

Maybe we hold our expectations too high?

[Delaware Mike]

I called Member Services about this new "business decision" (their words, not mine) and was bounced several times before speaking with a Marti (a person of unknown position within DVC).

After expressing my concerns about this "decision" (the playing field is not level...those wishing to book fewer days will receive preferred booking over someone like me, who always vacations at WDW for more than 8 days at a time, as well as other concerns), she simply recited what sounded like scripted responses.

I insisted upon speaking with someone of higher authority concerning this policy shift, however no one was available. I'm waiting for a phone call, which I was told would be tonight. However to get to this point took a lot of pursuasive negotiation, because even though I was told my opinion was important, no one else was willing to speak with me, or was willing to call back to discuss it.

At the end of my call, Marti told me DVC really does want member feedback, however we should be patient since this policy "just went into effect today"...we [the members] "need to give this change a chance" and "see where things go". "DVC takes member opinions seriously."

Okay, since DVC takes our opinions seriously, we should provide them with it. I strongly urge all DVC members to call Member Services and to write letters, expressing how this "business decision" will ultimately hurt our DVC experience.

If anyone has already written about this policy, I'd love to obtain a copy of your letter. Or better yet, please share it with your fellow MOers so that we all can voice our concerns.

Thank you.

Delaware Mike

EDITED TO ADD: I did receive a telephone call from Melissa, the DVC Manager on Duty this evening. She listened very poliltely, taking copious notes of our conversation, and promised to provide my input to the Member Satisfaction Team. However, for specific feedback on my concerns I did (although politely) receive the "canned answer...scripted" responses. As I mentioned our discussion here on MO, she reiterated DVC is interested in [our] member feedback. Perhaps tomorrow's call valume at Member Services will be excessive?

[zulaya]

Open comment to DVC MS;

Do not give me canned responses; it insults my intelligence.

I know you are doing it and so does every other member. You know you are doing it, so let's stop the song and dance routine.

If you have to have canned responses, you obviously were either A) Unprepared for this decision or B) You knew people would not be happy to begin with.

Let's all act like adults here. I'll tell you what I think, politely and directly. If you don't have the information I want, then tell me straight. Then I can can pursue finding someone else who has said information.

Giving me meaningless politically correct statements does not make me feel valued or important. It make me feel like you don't care what I think and that you hope your correctly worded, canned response that does not address my issue placates me.

Do you really think we all plunk down thousands of dollars and don't see what's going on? Give us the respect we deserve and give it to us straight and promptly.

Off my soapbox now...

[bavaria]

I have no horse in this race, as I book usually 0-7 days in advance, but I can certainly empathize with all of you impacted by this change.

And I agree that yet again the rollout, communication, and training fall far short of the standards once set.

To quote Tony (actually, to use one of my favourite phrases...) - Poopyheads! :tsktsk:

[bavaria]

Let's all act like adults here

Whoops! I suppose that the term 'poopyhead' doesn't fall into the adult vocabulary, but sometimes it does seem rather appropriate :grrrrr:

[zulaya]

Hey bavaria! No worries! :goldfish:

My sarcasm was directed at DVC. I know all of us MO people are adults, right? :angel:

[Daitcher]

I think part of this is conversation that Mike's trying to get out to show that the new system isn't going to solve any problem and may make things even worse. And, if you follow the rules (that is, do what MS lets you do), is it even gaming the system?

Dirk



Why is it that I'm almost always in agreement with Dirk???????

I wanted to really set him up. When he responded like you did above ( "trying to get out to show that the new system isn't going to solve any problem") I was going to ask him if it is really "gaming the system" to do something that is completely within the rules?

Sorry, but I like the new system. My opinion is that no matter what the system, there will always be those you knowingly "game the system." Legal "gaming" is fine, IMO. If we all have the same set of rules does it really matter what those rules are? This new system will eliminate what is another form of "gaming", the day by day bookers. The DVC system did not want that to happen and did not intend that. Because it was "legal" they couldn't stop it and it drained resources at MS. Those "gamers" simply took the system offered and found the loophole of day by day booking. How is this any different?

p.s. I can "game" any system so really what is the problem with this change? I'm of the opinion that ANY change causes initial uproar but when the smoke settles it will be for the best.



DAVE

[carolina_yankee]

Wow! This is one where I thought you would be selling SSR tomorrow!

Dirk

[mountainjourno]

This new system will eliminate what is another form of "gaming", the day by day bookers.
DAVE


How will this eliminate that? I'll still be doing it - but will be starting my reservation 6 days earlier than I plan to stay and then cancelling the extra days... so really, it's more work for them and for me. With the previous system, I didn't need to cancel anything and only booked the days I needed. But now, I'll have an unfair advantage because I have a lot of points and can book days I don't need, yet I'm doing this to avoid an unfair disadvantage if I don't happen to have the *right* check in date to get key dates... So I see this system as lose/lose. Obviously - if we plan to stay at a less popular time, this won't be an issue and I'll happily book in one hit (as I do anyway) but for popular times like December, I'll need to "game" they system.

[Daitcher]

How will this eliminate that? I'll still be doing it - but will be starting my reservation 6 days earlier than I plan to stay and then cancelling the extra days... so really, it's more work for them and for me. With the previous system, I didn't need to cancel anything and only booked the days I needed. But now, I'll have an unfair advantage because I have a lot of points and can book days I don't need, yet I'm doing this to avoid an unfair disadvantage if I don't happen to have the *right* check in date to get key dates... So I see this system as lose/lose. Obviously - if we plan to stay at a less popular time, this won't be an issue and I'll happily book in one hit (as I do anyway) but for popular times like December, I'll need to "game" they system.



You see you are wrong. Lets say you want a 5 day stay. Day by day takes 5 days of calling. This system requires 2 calls to gain a mere 2 day advantage which by the way isn't needed in the vast majority of cases. So we have 2 versus 5, sounds like big win for MS.


DAVE

[mountainjourno]

You see you are wrong. Lets say you want a 5 day stay. Day by day takes 5 days of calling. This sytem requires 2 to agin amere 2 day advantage which by the way isn't needed in the vast amjority of cases. So we have 2 versus 5, sounds like big win for MS.


DAVE

No, you're wrong. Now there will be the calls for the bogus days, followed by the day-by-day calling for the days I actually want following the date at the end of the bogus dates.
So if I want to stay the week of December 23 to 30, I'll need to book from Dec 16 to 24, and then add on each day after that (assuming Greenban's scenario is correct and that after the initial booking, I can, the next day, start booking subsequent days.) If the scenario that member services gave me is correct though (that being, I'd have to wait a week after the first booking and then add on day by day) then I may have to make even more bogus bookings to have the best chance of securing the dates that I want. And as this is, unquestionably, a peak season for DVC, it's understandable I'd need to go through that much trouble to secure the reservation I want. And then, of course, there will be the calls to cancel those bogus dates.

Of course - I'd be much happier to have an even playing field with all of the members and just have everyone permitted to book their resort on the same day...

[ScottakaMickey]

Here is how the popular times will have to work.

I want to do a vacation December 25 to January 1. So, here is how I have to do it.

On January 19 I call MS. Book 7 days from December 19 to checkout on December 26.
On January 20 I call MS. Extend my 7 day stay to now checkout on December 27. Then I cancel my December 19 reservation.
On January 21 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 28. Then I cance my December 20 reservation.
On January 22 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 29. Then I cancel my December 21 reservation.
On January 23 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 30. Then I cancel my December 22 reservation.
On January 24 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 31. Then I cancel my December 23 reservation.
On January 25 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on January 1. Then I cancel my December 24 reservation.

I now have what I really wanted. This is going to be very complicated to get done, but it's going to have to be that way. Now, the biggest challenge is making sure you have enough points to book 7 days worth of stay if you only want to do this for a stay shorter.

I don't like it, but there is still a way to get the popular times or popular locations.

[tammymacb]

That is until MS figures out that all these reservations are being cancelled on the front end and stops it.

[mountainjourno]

That is until MS figures out that all these reservations are being cancelled on the front end and stops it.

Which means then, that the only way you'll be able to spend Christmas at Disney World is if you arrive on the 18th.

Here's a better scenario - what if MS instead, said "hey - this is disadvantaging some of our loyal members, maybe we could find a fair way of allowing anyone to book a particular day within the appropriate window?" Maybe the could do something innovative, like allowing people to book day by day from check-out date rather than check-in date...

[DVC Mike]

What is DVC thinking?? Who is making these terrible decisions? :hammer:

How can they roll out such a change without proper planning, training and communication?

This is just another mis-step in DVC's execution of changes...

[bavaria]

How can they roll out such a change without proper planning, training and communication?

This is just another mis-step in DVC's execution of changes...
Well, they do win some points for consistency at least! :innocent:

[DVC Mike]

Bottom line... I think the majority of DVC members will probably be happy with this change. It will be viewed as simpler and easier -- booking based on the check-in day and not the check-out day, and no need for day-by-day booking.

[jamstew]

OK--I'm really confused now, and it's nearly time to call for reservations for May 26-June 2 (Tuesday-Tuesday, 7 nights). Do I need to wait until June 26, or can I call now. I don't understand about the 11 months + 7. I thought it meant that you call 11 months before your check-in date and can reserve for 7 nights from that date. However, a couple of posts seemed to indicate that you can call 7 days before your checkin date? I haven't read the entire thread, because the more I read, the more confused I seem to get. I need a 2BR at VWL for these dates. How hard should that be to get? My only concern with the new system is the Tuesday arrival rather than a weekend, but we didn't want to be there on Memorial Day. I was also planning to pay cash for Saturday night, and then go back to points for the last two nights. Is this going to require three separate reservations (one for points Tuesday-Friday, one for cash Saturday, and one for points Sunday-Monday)? :holymoly:

[burcs]

Bottom line... I think the majority of DVC members will probably be happy with this change.

ignorance is bliss?

for the casual vacationer who utilizes low demand dates, this may seem good, but imo rights are being infringed.

people whom i think really benefit from this are people with gobs of points. this really gives them an opportunity to flex their muscle; i'm guessing premium rental rates during high demand times. life's a see saw, first the commercial rental thing, now this.

boy i wish i had gobs of points.

[Grandbuddy]

OK--I'm really confused now, and it's nearly time to call for reservations for May 26-June 2 (Tuesday-Tuesday, 7 nights). Do I need to wait until June 26, or can I call now. I don't understand about the 11 months + 7. I thought it meant that you call 11 months before your check-in date and can reserve for 7 nights from that date. However, a couple of posts seemed to indicate that you can call 7 days before your checkin date? I haven't read the entire thread, because the more I read, the more confused I seem to get. I need a 2BR at VWL for these dates. How hard should that be to get? My only concern with the new system is the Tuesday arrival rather than a weekend, but we didn't want to be there on Memorial Day. I was also planning to pay cash for Saturday night, and then go back to points for the last two nights. Is this going to require three separate reservations (one for points Tuesday-Friday, one for cash Saturday, and one for points Sunday-Monday)? :holymoly:

The change is that you can now call on June 26 (11 months from your check-in date), and book a full seven days, beginning that date, rather than having to wait until June 27 to book for the 26th, and calling day-by-day for each succeeding day. With your interruption for cash, I don't know how that will work.

[robinb]

WMy opinion is that no matter what the system, there will always be those you knowingly "game the system." Legal "gaming" is fine, IMO. If we all have the same set of rules does it really matter what those rules are? The problem is that the people who can "game" the system most readily are people who have lots and lots of points. I bought 200 points at BWV specifically for using over New Year's Eve. My reservations for 2008/2009 (made day-by-day) for 12/28 - 1/3 cost me 185 points for 6 nights in a Standard View 1BR. To add a 7th night and "game the system" I would have to come up with 260 points, meaning that I would have to use the last 15 points from 2008 and borrow 60 points from my 2009 use year to make that same reservation only to cancel that very expensive Saturday Premium night. Maybe I'll have the extra 75 points to use (and bank back another chunk of points when I cancel) and maybe I won't. If I don't have those extra points laying around I can tell you that I can kiss my Standard View or Boardwalk View goodbye if I can't get it in the new booking period. I know from experience that those booking types go the very first day that they are available and I am NOT exaggerating! If this change were in place last January I would probably have to pay 42 more points for a "Preferred View" of the scary clown slide instead of the Standard View I received.

So yeah, I'm unhappy with the change.

[DVC92]

Here is how the popular times will have to work.

I want to do a vacation December 25 to January 1. So, here is how I have to do it.

On January 19 I call MS. Book 7 days from December 19 to checkout on December 26.
On January 20 I call MS. Extend my 7 day stay to now checkout on December 27. Then I cancel my December 19 reservation.
On January 21 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 28. Then I cance my December 20 reservation.
On January 22 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 29. Then I cancel my December 21 reservation.
On January 23 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 30. Then I cancel my December 22 reservation.
On January 24 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 31. Then I cancel my December 23 reservation.
On January 25 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on January 1. Then I cancel my December 24 reservation.

I now have what I really wanted. This is going to be very complicated to get done, but it's going to have to be that way. Now, the biggest challenge is making sure you have enough points to book 7 days worth of stay if you only want to do this for a stay shorter.

I don't like it, but there is still a way to get the popular times or popular locations.

The problem with this scenario is that prior to December 19, other members may have already made reservations for the 18th through the 25th. If you haven't been there before Xmas, it is extremely crowded. It will not be that easy to "game" the system.

[cheapmom]

That is until MS figures out that all these reservations are being cancelled on the front end and stops it.

This has to be a situation they have anticipated- I would be surprised if you could cancel on the front end without cancelling the whole reservation and rebooking.
Also- if they are trying to eliminate day-by-day bookings perhaps they plan on not allowing day-by-day reservations to be linked anymore, that would stop people from doing day-by-day.

I hope someone calls and asks if the 1st day cancelling will be allowed- if so it defeats the whole point of this change.

If they don't allow cancellations on the front end unless a full cacel/rebook takes place then I am all for this change.

[suecait]

Here is how the popular times will have to work.

I want to do a vacation December 25 to January 1. So, here is how I have to do it.

On January 19 I call MS. Book 7 days from December 19 to checkout on December 26.
On January 20 I call MS. Extend my 7 day stay to now checkout on December 27. Then I cancel my December 19 reservation.
On January 21 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 28. Then I cance my December 20 reservation.
On January 22 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 29. Then I cancel my December 21 reservation.
On January 23 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 30. Then I cancel my December 22 reservation.
On January 24 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 31. Then I cancel my December 23 reservation.
On January 25 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on January 1. Then I cancel my December 24 reservation.

I now have what I really wanted. This is going to be very complicated to get done, but it's going to have to be that way. Now, the biggest challenge is making sure you have enough points to book 7 days worth of stay if you only want to do this for a stay shorter.

I don't like it, but there is still a way to get the popular times or popular locations.


I may be misunderstanding my call to MS. But my understanding was in the above scenerio yes you call on Jan 19 to book 7 days for Dec 19-26. You would not be able to call to book Dec 27 until Jan 27.

When I called MS, the example I gave was for booking a 10 day trip (no specific dates used). I was advised that at the 11 month window I could book the 1st 7 days but would have to wait a week to add days 8,9 &10. However, reading some other posts it sounds like other people got different info from the MS rep.

[kimberh]

I just called MS twice to verify the following, both Advisors were newer CMs that I hadn't spoken to in the past. They both:


Confirmed the 11 + 7 rule (or 11 months from the ARRIVAL date)
Confirmed that you could add on-day-by-day also using the 11 Month + 7 day rule!


So if these two are correct and you had a 14 day stay planned from December 1, 2009 through December 15, 2009.

You could call January 1st, 2009 (if MS is open) and book December 1-8, and on January 8th you could add the night of December 8th, and so-on, day-by-day.

At least that part is fair, just not the ability to snag high demand dates by booking a Saturday night stay (for example......)

-Tony
What Tony has wrote makes sense!



Tony - I called an hour ago and was told the opposite - that you could book the 11+7, but then would need to wait a week to book the remaining days (so, book 11+7, and then wait a week to book days 8,9,10 etc...

This is plain Stupid, If this is the case, I'm selling all of mine! Why go to the confusion of making a reservation?
DVC has really screwed up this time.:veryconfu

[kimberh]

OK--I'm really confused now, and it's nearly time to call for reservations for May 26-June 2 (Tuesday-Tuesday, 7 nights). Do I need to wait until June 26, or can I call now. I don't understand about the 11 months + 7. I thought it meant that you call 11 months before your check-in date and can reserve for 7 nights from that date. However, a couple of posts seemed to indicate that you can call 7 days before your checkin date? I haven't read the entire thread, because the more I read, the more confused I seem to get. I need a 2BR at VWL for these dates. How hard should that be to get? My only concern with the new system is the Tuesday arrival rather than a weekend, but we didn't want to be there on Memorial Day. I was also planning to pay cash for Saturday night, and then go back to points for the last two nights. Is this going to require three separate reservations (one for points Tuesday-Friday, one for cash Saturday, and one for points Sunday-Monday)? :holymoly:

Jamie,
When you call MS, You tell them exactly what you are wanting to do. You will set the Cash reservation up through MS, hopefully you will get a DVC member discount, if you don't... keep calling back and see if one is available, then book your last two nights on points, they will LINK the 3 reservation together so that you will not have to move.

[greenban]

I will now call idiots and amateurs "DVC Management."

It may confuse them, but it will be accurate.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be personal (over the top sarcastic, perhaps). But, I do think this could have been done better, like the AKV roll-out.

Maybe we hold our expectations too high?

B&G I too was being over the top sarcastic, and even Dirk joined in.

What we were saying is that it is an insult to Idiots and Amatuers everywhere by equating them with DVC management, DVC management is a magnitude WORSE than Idiots and Amateurs. Defectives and Rejects comes to my mind!

Anyway we agree 100% with you!

-Tony

[greenban]

Bottom line... I think the majority of DVC members will probably be happy with this change. It will be viewed as simpler and easier -- booking based on the check-in day and not the check-out day, and no need for day-by-day booking.

I agree, *WHEN* they find out about it in the late fall.

Remember only about 1-2% of DVC Owners are webnutz like us.

The 'great unwashed majority' has no knowledge of this, and won't until the fall edition of whatever is comming out, or if they call to make a ressie before then. I think there is *NO* coincidence that this came out after the 7 month window for Christmas and New Years had passed!

-Tony

[Daitcher]

No, you're wrong. Now there will be the calls for the bogus days, followed by the day-by-day calling for the days I actually want following the date at the end of the bogus dates.
So if I want to stay the week of December 23 to 30, I'll need to book from Dec 16 to 24, and then add on each day after that (assuming Greenban's scenario is correct and that after the initial booking, I can, the next day, start booking subsequent days.) If the scenario that member services gave me is correct though (that being, I'd have to wait a week after the first booking and then add on day by day) then I may have to make even more bogus bookings to have the best chance of securing the dates that I want. And as this is, unquestionably, a peak season for DVC, it's understandable I'd need to go through that much trouble to secure the reservation I want. And then, of course, there will be the calls to cancel those bogus dates.

Of course - I'd be much happier to have an even playing field with all of the members and just have everyone permitted to book their resort on the same day...



Again, what is the problem?

If we all have to follow the same rules then I don't see it as a problem. If someone out "games" me for a resevration becasue they insist on doing day by day, so be it. I'll do what I've always done, one call, now it will just be on my check in day.


DAVE

[greenban]

Please everyone, call MS (at least once) and verify the 'rules' see this thread: http://www.mouseowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15957

Also if you don't like, or do like the change, let your cast member know about it.

-Tony

[Daitcher]

The problem is that the people who can "game" the system most readily are people who have lots and lots of points. I bought 200 points at BWV specifically for using over New Year's Eve. My reservations for 2008/2009 (made day-by-day) for 12/28 - 1/3 cost me 185 points for 6 nights in a Standard View 1BR. To add a 7th night and "game the system" I would have to come up with 260 points, meaning that I would have to use the last 15 points from 2008 and borrow 60 points from my 2009 use year to make that same reservation only to cancel that very expensive Saturday Premium night. Maybe I'll have the extra 75 points to use (and bank back another chunk of points when I cancel) and maybe I won't. If I don't have those extra points laying around I can tell you that I can kiss my Standard View or Boardwalk View goodbye if I can't get it in the new booking period. I know from experience that those booking types go the very first day that they are available and I am NOT exaggerating! If this change were in place last January I would probably have to pay 42 more points for a "Preferred View" of the scary clown slide instead of the Standard View I received.

So yeah, I'm unhappy with the change.



So if this change benefitted you, you'd be OK with it? Sorry but there is always winners and losers in any scenario and just becasue you are on the wrong side here doesn't mean that this change is bad. The vast majority of people will make one call on check in day and book their 7 days or less. If they have more than 7 days they'll call back on day 7 to book the rest. Just how DVC intended and FAR simpler for most.

I fired off an email to the member satisfaction team applauding this change. What I didn't applaud and I mentioned it to them is the lack of direct communication to the membership. Sorry but I shouldn't have to read about it here.


DAVE

[Daitcher]

for the casual vacationer who utilizes low demand dates, this may seem good, but imo rights are being infringed.



How are "rights being infringed"? I'm just curious because according to the POS DVC can change the booking windows. They could even designate a special season for "special people thus entitleing them to advance bookings. They can also reduce the home resort priority period to as little as one month. See below.

From the POS: section 3.4 Home Resort Rules and Regulations SSR POS

" g. Any other rules and regualtions which DVCMC in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion determines are necessary or desirable from time to time in order to enforce the provisions of this agreement in a manner that, in DVCMC's reasoanble business judgment, will be for the principal purpose of improving upon the quality and operation of the Vacation Ownership Plan and furthering the collective enjoyment of the use of the Vacation Homes by Club Memebrs taken as a whole . Such rules and regulations may include the implementation of a Special Season Preference List, persons eligible to appear on this List will have a special reservation priority that will supersede the usual first come, first served reservation procedure and Home Resort Priority Period to varying extents."

4.2 Reservations

b. (snip) "DVCMC reserves the right in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion to extend or decrese the Home Resort Priorit Period; provided, however, in no event shall the Home Resort Priority be for a period of less than one (1) month prior to the period which the other Club Memebrs have the right to reserve that Vacation Home during that Use day."

So basically DVCMC can do pretty much whatever they want and they did what they felt was best for the membership as a whole. UNLESS you guys want to fire DVCMC as the managing entity?


DAVE

[carolina_yankee]

Bottom line... I think the majority of DVC members will probably be happy with this change. It will be viewed as simpler and easier -- booking based on the check-in day and not the check-out day, and no need for day-by-day booking.

You may be right, but I still think there is a very serious problem with the policy (focusing on holiday bookings or limited inventory units liked AKV concierge or OKW grand villas) that is patently unfair.

At the end of the day, I think this has the potential to reduce the flexibility of the program even further without creating any real bonuses.

Dirk

[Daitcher]

At the end of the day, I think this has the potential to reduce the flexibility of the program even further without creating any real bonuses.

Dirk



But it DOES create bonuses. The bonus is for those that know how to work the system to their advantage just like every other Timeshare. There may also be a bonus of decreased wait times when calling MS and if so, a possible reduction of staff at MS meaning lower AD's for us.

Any system is "fair" as long as we all have to play by the same rules.


DAVE

[AZDVC]

I guess what I don't like is the suddenness of the change!
Even looking at my own dvc page it gives me the check out date of when I could book rather than arrival.
"Currently, you may request a reservation at any Disney Vacation Club Resort for vacations that have a check-out date on or before January 21, 2009, based upon availability. "

Why wouldn't member services at least put some information out there instead of just letting rumors fly and people just calling in (late) for their average ressie.
That's the part I'm going to complain about in an email. Use the mailings, email, webpage you already have to inform us!
Patsy

[Daitcher]

I guess what I don't like is the suddenness of the change!
Even looking at my own dvc page it gives me the check out date of when I could book rather than arrival.
"Currently, you may request a reservation at any Disney Vacation Club Resort for vacations that have a check-out date on or before January 21, 2009, based upon availability. "

Why wouldn't member services at least put some information out there instead of just letting rumors fly and people just calling in (late) for their average ressie.
That's the part I'm going to complain about in an email. Use the mailings, email, webpage you already have to inform us!
Patsy


I completely agree. DVC has shown a tendency to go off "half cocked" with these changes. Change is fine but notify us ahead of time. Tell us "Effective July 1st the booking procedures have changed......" Imagine if the airlines hadn't given passenger notice ahead of time with these new baggage fees? Talk about problems!


DAVE

[JimP]

Sorry... I am jet lagged and I don't want to work my brain too hard today.

If I understand it properly... I will now need to do the following for my normal 12 day reservations IF I want to be be nearly 100% sure to get my room:

1) Call at 9:00 am 11 months + 7 days booking six nights that I do not want... and one final day that I do want.

2) Call day-by-day for 6 more nights at 9:00 am, canceling the first unwanted night... and adding on a new night that I really do want.
After doing this 6 times, I will then have my "real" first 7 days confirmed.

3) Continue calling day-by-day at 9:00 am for 5 more nights to add on each night to my reservation at the 11 month + 7 day window.

Is this correct? Does this give me my desired 12 nights... with each night booked at the optimum time?

/Jim

[Blue&Gold]

Change is fine but notify us ahead of time.

I don't want to sound political here, but "Change" isn't the same as "Progress." Some changes are bad.

IF this rule plays out so that for a 8-day or longer reservation you can get the first 7 days in one chunk (and I completely accept that the VAST number of vacations are 7 days or less) and then on the "second day" I can call for day 8, etc, then I think this is pretty benign. If I have to wait a week to reserve days 8 and on as a few reports indicate---greatly increasing the chance of a "split" reservation---then I'm not only against this, I'll give serious consideration to bailing out because that is not how we want to vacation.

[carolina_yankee]

But it DOES create bonuses. The bonus is for those that know how to work the system to their advantage just like every other Timeshare. There may also be a bonus of decreased wait times when calling MS and if so, a possible reduction of staff at MS meaning lower AD's for us.

Any system is "fair" as long as we all have to play by the same rules.


DAVE
I'm not sure these are bonuses. We've moved from people having to call day by day, with a level playing field for everyone to people having to call day be day for stays longer than 8 days, or to cancel/add nights to be sure to get the coveted Thanksgiving, 12/25 and 12/31 dates.

If each call starts taking longer (drop a day, add a day, or complain about availability because the people starting a vacation before 6 days before you grabbed the last GV for your start night) then they won't be able to reduce MS staff.

The older way was fair to everyone, much simpler, and maximized flexibility.

I'm still interested in the conversation, but I'm going to be off line for most of today and half of tomorrow due to business travel, so I haven't spoken and run.

Dirk

[TikiTwinsDad]

I know that I am probably hashing, re-hashing and re-re-hashing things people have already said, but I do think the thread has certainly been skewed a direction that I don't agree, so, you'll get my thoughts. Although I'm not jetlagged from a flight from Luxembourg, I still feel like this...:headbange

For the most part, I agree with Daitcher and to a certain extent DVMike and to a lesser extent the frog (and others I'm forgetting, I'm sure). While I haven't posted nearly as often, I've read a lot and would say 80% of the time I disagree with dave - usually diametrically. So, that's why I need to be committed.

Although (like Grandbuddy, who I think wouldn’t say this himself, is extremely level-headed, even if he’s new), I'm a new member who just made my first reservation before the rules changed on Wednesday, I think 95% of the folks will have the reaction I did when I first heard about. "Great. That's certainly easier." I really believe that. I don't see the system as being gamed by folks who want to go through the trouble of reserving 7 nights and cancelling the front end to book the back end, I say to those very small minority of people who feel the need to do that "have fun."

People have mentioned that the rationale (thought not articulated) was to cut down on calls. I agree that this MAY not do that, but I really think it will. I think more people will book 7 day vacations and not call day-by-day, and the so-called "gamers" will do it their way, which will probably take an additional 20 minutes out of their lives to accomplish.

I think the thread has a taken a tone that "Anyone who believes this change is good or even is neutral on it is either naive or stupid" Frankly, that bothers me a lot. I hate being told (or feeling like I am being told) that something is not good for me, when I think it is. I didn't believe when I plopped down $30,000 last month to think the rules would be the same when my contracts expire 34 years from now, and change is bound to happen. So, I roll with the punches (and I don't see this as a punch). I have thought about it, and read 10 pages of posts and my opinion hasn’t changed much.

I can certainly understand (though, I wouldn't call it empathy) the point that if someone (not me) wants room number 336 on the boardwalk, with 2 queen beds and a view of Epcot (I realize this room doesn’t exist) on December 25th, that person’s life MAY become more difficult IF a large enough number of people with a large enough number of points feel compelled to (a) request the same room (b) on the same night (c) 11 months and 7 days in advance, when (d) that person only has enough points to play the same “game” 4 or 5 days in advance. Frankly, that’s not me and I don’t think it’s a whole lot of people. I felt that jeffbrowna was patronized by all the “I’m glad you are so flexible” comments, but again, I think that’s the majority not the minority. I’m all for changes like that realizing some other folks may feel they are being treated unfairly. They still have to sell to many more people for AKV, BLT, etc., and I don’t think this change is going to dampen that at all (certainly not to the level one would believe just be reading this) – if it does, then I am sure there will be a reaction the other way. I am glad there hasn’t been name calling of other, members and while I don’t feel name-calling of MS or DVC is warranted, it has amused me and I realize there is some catharsis in doing.

NOW, FINALLY, to my complaints. My biggest complaint is something that I have seen articulated many times. It is 100% patently ridiculous to put this change in effect immediately, overnight and without communicating it to everyone. It is inconsiderate and, yes, stupid to not have a lead up period, train MS and guides, put out an FAQ and communicate the change in writing. That’s my biggest gripe and in fact makes me a bit angry (my anger is tempered by the fact that I don’t mind the change). I cannot fathom who would do such a thing and causes the cynic in me to question other motives. I totally agree that it was timed to be after the 7 month window for the Christmas period. So, if that’s the case, they’ve obviously known for a while.

[cheapmom]

robinb said:The problem is that the people who can "game" the system most readily are people who have lots and lots of points.
I don't see that as a problem- any system will have winners and losers, in this case the winners are
1. those who own the most points
2. those who stay for longer durations

These are DVC's best customers so why not have the advantages go to these groups?

[dvcnewgirl]

robinb said:
I don't see that as a problem- any system will have winners and losers, in this case the winners are
1. those who own the most points
2. those who stay for longer durations

These are DVC's best customers so why not have the advantages go to these groups?

Why should there be winners and losers??:idontgeti How about an equal playing field like it was.. Am I less of a DVC'r because I do not have enough points to get around the new rules like someone else?? No I have enough points to get what I need. So I should be able to have a fair 11 month window.

[Daitcher]

I'd like to commend Tikitwinsdad on that post!!!!!!

I want to point out that the vast majority of people stay 7 days or less. For those people, again the VAST majority of DVC owners, this is the best change ever!!!! No more calling day by day for their stay. It also simplifies things for them, they know that they want to travel March 1st so they call 11 months before that date or 7 months before that date, pretty simple. They make their ressie of 7 days or less right then and there in one call.

I totally disagree that this will lead to an increase in calls. We have way over 100,000 member families now. How many of those even post on message boards, 20,000 maybe? So less than 1/5 of the membership even thinks about this stuff. They simply do as told. They will make one call. Those wanting longer stays will make two calls. They will book the seven days and then on day 8 they'll call and book the rest. Anyone doing over two weeks would need another call on day 15. This is how it is intended by DVC.

Gamers? Well, who cares really. I'm not even going to call them "gamers" or say they are "gaming" the system. I'm going to call them the "maximizers". They are simply maximizing the system they are given.

I'll leave everyone with this: sentiment on the "other" board is quite different than here. They see this as a positive change for the most part. Roll with it folks, adjust, learn the system and how to maximize it. Things change, get over it. Nobody is forcing you into long stays, book 7 days. Life is full of choices. Also, all you folks love the flexibility of this point based system. Point based is fine but don't scream how great it is from the rafters and then turn around and bitch about having to beat others to book rooms or bitch about not getting a desired room. That is the syastem you bought into, like it or not. Buy a fixed week, fixed unit Timeshare if you want that guarantee. You are gauranteed nothing with DVC, heck if you wait too ong to book you might not get a room anywhere.
My fixed week resort I just show up. I don't have to do anything, nothing. The room is mine and it is waiting for me and I chose the room/location I wanted. No complaints no fuss. Thing of beauty!!!!


DAVE

DAVE

[Daitcher]

Why should there be winners and losers??:idontgeti How about an equal playing field like it was.. Am I less of a DVC'r because I do not have enough points to get around the new rules like someone else?? No I have enough points to get what I need. So I should be able to have a fair 11 month window.



And you do. You have the same chance as everyone else.


DAVE

[dvcnewgirl]

And you do. You have the same chance as everyone else.


DAVE


How? Someone that is booking a Sat-Sat stay gets to book before I do for Sunday, so how do I have the same chance??

[PolyColleen]

I guess a lot of the problem with this kind of "switch the rules and not tell us" crap is that we are informed enough to feel like things ought to be a DEMOCRACY. We educate ourselves so we sort of feel like we want a say in how things are run, a VOTE, so to speak, in helping to decide these things. In fact, not only do we not get a say or vote, we are not even notified PROPERLY when big decisions are made without us. When we call, the clueless minions of the MS phone lines tell us different things, and notices say "read the member publication coming out 6 months from now to hear all about it." WOW...No wonder we are cranky!

Back when I was in college, Bruce Springsteen released "Born in the USA" and tickets to see him were the hottest thing going. Bruce was on a real roll that summer, and that video with Courtney Cox dancing in the audience had me CONVINCED I needed to see Bruce in person! I got up really early and dialed my little fingers off (no redial on phones back in the 80s, and the phone had a cord, too, so you were trapped by the refrigerator dialing over and over again) and I GOT THROUGH and I got those tickets... I LIKED that lowly me, a broke college student, had a good shot at getting those Bruce tix by getting up early and dialing feverishly. That's the American way! That evening's news actually had a segment about how all those calls had virtually shut down every phone system on the east coast, including government calls around DC. Now that's fairness! You get up early, you call, you get your shot at what you want.

I don't think I like this new system and I mostly don't like that they didn't even PRETEND our opinion mattered enough to announce it properly.

[Grandbuddy]

Upon reflection, I'm kind of leaning toward the "not ready to get too excited" camp. I am not enthused over the prospect of hordes of DVC members booking nights they know they will not use to gain an advantage for the nights they DO want, a week later; but I don't know that I believe that hordes of folks will treat their fellow DVC members this way. Yes, there will be some.

And, if you are among them, you know who you are. And may God bless you, whichever camp you fall into. I believe that DVC will continue to provide a value for my (yes, recent) investment, and will provide many years of enjoyment for my wife and me, our kids, and our grandkids. I'll call 11 months in advance and try to book my six and seven night stays, and see how it goes.

[BWV Dreamin]

This has to be a situation they have anticipated- I would be surprised if you could cancel on the front end without cancelling the whole reservation and rebooking.
Also- if they are trying to eliminate day-by-day bookings perhaps they plan on not allowing day-by-day reservations to be linked anymore, that would stop people from doing day-by-day.

I hope someone calls and asks if the 1st day cancelling will be allowed- if so it defeats the whole point of this change.

If they don't allow cancellations on the front end unless a full cacel/rebook takes place then I am all for this change.

I called MS today to inquire about the change. The CM, Melissa, had no idea what I was talking about. I had to tell her about the changes, and could I speak with a manager. She put me on hold, came back with a "peice of paper". I asked about making the 7 days at one time, then calling back to cancel a day at the beginning or end of my reservation. She said it would not affect the total reservation, and this could be done.

[DonaldD]

How? Someone that is booking a Sat-Sat stay gets to book before I do for Sunday, so how do I have the same chance??

:iagree: How do you figure it's fair? Why shouldn't I be entitled to the same opportunity, despite having fewer points. I purchase the points that I need for a trip. I shouldn't have to purchase more points just to keep up to the Jones'

I like the idea of one phone call for my 5 night stay, but certainly think that the "smaller" dvc members are getting the short end of this stick.:(:boohoohoo

[Carol]

Wow! This is one where I thought you would be selling SSR tomorrow!

DirkIt doesn't affect SSR owners. SSR is so large that there is nothing that would fill up and prevent anyone from getting what he/she wants even if others have a 7 day head start on them. The only barely possible exception might be New Year's Eve night.

I think AKV owners (concierge) and BWV owners (SV & BW view) as well as owners who book certain other high demand rooms & times at other DVC resorts are the losers in this policy.

To me, it's really only an issue if what you want fills up before you even have a chance to try for it. I think there are only a few situations where this will be the case for 11 month bookers.

And as long as we're quoting the POS, ;) here's something I copied from a namesake on another board: :) Apparently it's from a MULTI SITE PUBLIC OFFERING STATEMENT

c. The Home Resort Priority Period. As set forth in each DVC Resort's Membership Agreement and Home Resort Rules and Regulations and as disclosed in the Disclosure Document, DVCMC has implemented a Home Resort Priority Period at each DVC Resort. During the Home Resort Priority Period, a Club Member receives an exclusive right to reserve the use of a Vacation Home at his or her Home Resort with respect to a given Use Day on a first come, first served basis, with other Club Members who own Ownership Interests at his or her Home Resort, eleven months th