NEWS: Major Change to Booking Windows

[tammymacb]

I also emailed this morning.

I haven't received anything at all....

[minniekissedme]

DVC seems to be moving more and more towards traditional timeshare booking windows. Almost all timeshares are booked one week at a time, with the only exception being with 1-90 days prior to check-in.

I do expect more of these types of changes, if Disney continues to push the expansion plans to more off-site locations.

All this applies to people trying to make reservation PRIOR to the 11 month (home resort) or 7 month ( non-home resort) booking window. All other times you can book your full vacation if they have availability.

Mod-Primo, you are missing something. Although I haven't personally tried and therefore have not yet confirmed this.....

Say you want a 10 day vacation.

Call on the fourth day of your vacation, (in the 11 or 7 month windows as appropriate) then in one call, you can add the first three days (if still available), the day of your call, and the next 6 nights for a total of 10 nights (eleven days) in one call.


gotcha...only really applies at THE 11/7 windows. Appreciate the MODly assistance!

[Carol]

I will not pretend to be concerned with this issue at the moment. I'm new to DVC (first trip coming in 59 days) and typically do not book peak travel times. I can sympathize with those who have points at various resorts for specific reasons. I agree that this was done in a less than Disney like fashion.

The only question I have is why the hell can't I book a 10 day vacation if I want to? Why does it have to be 7 days and then the remainder day by day? At least that's what I'm reading is necessary.

Am I missing something? Was it always that way? Without getting too crazy will someone fill in the missing blanks? Thanks in advance...Don't get all caught up in this if you don't travel during peak times for DVC. You aren't going to have a problem. For example, let's use your 10 day trip coming up in 59 days (lucky you, lol). I will assume the dates for the trip are 8/22/2008 - 8/31/2008 and that you are staying at your home resort.

If the new booking policy were in effect last year, you could have booked this vacation with just one call to Member Services. You would have called on September 24, 2007. On 9/24/2007 based on an arrival of 8/24/2007 and a home resort stay, you could book the night of 8/24 and the following 6 nights (final check out on Sunday, 8/31/2008. Since the 11 month window for the first two nights opened before your call, you can book those at the same time. So a 9 night/10 day vacation booked with just one call.

Of course you could have just waited until Spetember 30 (and even later) to book that trip. Your dates are not popular enough that everything at your home resort would sell out quickly after the 11 month window opens.

Hardly anything fills up during the first couple of weeks that the 11 month window is open. The frustration (and suggestions to book and then add on day by day day) is related to the times & specific room categories that do fill up the first day or days that the window opens.

Enjoy your membership and especially your first trip.

[spiceycat]

also for the food/wine or flower/garden festavial - the events and concerts are not listed until way after the 11 month time.

so again not a problem

but for Thanksgiving getting the standard view at BWV or AKV (value too) can see this as being a BIG problem. if you only have enough points for that reservation.

or Dec at all - guess will be back to OKW.

[jamstew]

Hardly anything fills up during the first couple of weeks that the 11 month window is open. The frustration (and suggestions to book and then add on day by day day) is related to the times & specific room categories that do fill up the first day or days that the window opens.

Do you think the 2BR/2Q at BCV will fall into that category all year (at 11 months), or just during busier times? I'm thinking of doing a girls' trip next fall and that's what we would need. Although I could do it in early September, I'd much rather wait until October or November when it's somewhat cooler.

[zulaya]

jamstew, I would suspect that 2Q/2ndBR at BCV will be up there in terms of difficulty to get. There are only 25 of them.

But that's more than there are AKV CL villa, BWV and AKV GVs (at the moment), but less than GVs at OKW and SSR (I think) and eventually I think will be less than GVs at AKV when Kidani is done.

But the kicker with this category is you have to ask for it specifically as a Dedicated 2 BR with 2Q in the 2nd BR. Some members may just ask for a dedicated 2BR and be assigned one with the sofabed and queen because they didn't ask specifically for the 2Q booking category.

So it may not be as difficult from that point of view. Right now, nobody knows for sure because this is so new.

[zulaya]

One more thing...I read you wanted to go in Oct or Nov.

It's going to be busy as that's Food & Wine Festival and the Epcot resorts are always full. Now if BCV is your home, you shouldn't have too much trouble at the 11 month window. But there are always people who are trying to trade into the Epcot resorts at 7 months to be close to Epcot. Be aware of the busier weeks in that timeframe and be flexible if you can. I'm specifically thinking of Jersey Week in November.

[Carol]

Do you think the 2BR/2Q at BCV will fall into that category all year (at 11 months), or just during busier times? I'm thinking of doing a girls' trip next fall and that's what we would need. Although I could do it in early September, I'd much rather wait until October or November when it's somewhat cooler.I pretty much agree with zulaya. That category may be a problem during Food & Wine Festival. Just don't know yet. I think the week between the end of F&W and Thanksgiving is a lot easier to get than anything else in November. Jersey Week tends to go pretty quick - that's usually the first full week of November.

FWIW, I don't think the sleep sofas are all that bad, especially if you don't have to share it with another adult. If you are going with all adults, maybe you'd even prefer a lock off 2B to get the separate entance and kitchenette. If someone is sleeping in the living room, might be nice for those in the studio portion to be able to make coffee in their room or go in and out early & late without disturbing the living room people. :)

[jamstew]

One more thing...I read you wanted to go in Oct or Nov.

It's going to be busy as that's Food & Wine Festival and the Epcot resorts are always full. Now if BCV is your home, you shouldn't have too much trouble at the 11 month window. But there are always people who are trying to trade into the Epcot resorts at 7 months to be close to Epcot. Be aware of the busier weeks in that timeframe and be flexible if you can. I'm specifically thinking of Jersey Week in November.

BCV is my home resort, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for not much trouble. I had already blacked out Jersey Week as a possibility :-) Thanks!

Jamie (who thought she had a signature saved, but apparently doesn't :veryconfu )

[jamstew]

jamstew, I would suspect that 2Q/2ndBR at BCV will be up there in terms of difficulty to get. There are only 25 of them.

But that's more than there are AKV CL villa, BWV and AKV GVs (at the moment), but less than GVs at OKW and SSR (I think) and eventually I think will be less than GVs at AKV when Kidani is done.

But the kicker with this category is you have to ask for it specifically as a Dedicated 2 BR with 2Q in the 2nd BR. Some members may just ask for a dedicated 2BR and be assigned one with the sofabed and queen because they didn't ask specifically for the 2Q booking category.

So it may not be as difficult from that point of view. Right now, nobody knows for sure because this is so new.

Thanks. I knew it was a separate booking category, but I figured everybody knew that! If not, it should give me a slight advantage :yes:

[suecait]

Ok I am going to ruffle some feathers here and this is just my opinion which doesn't count for much anyways. But with the small locations/busy dates there was never a guarantee anyone would always get what they wanted and I am sure every year there were disappointed people who didn't get what they ultimately wanted even when "gaming" the system. After all there is only a finite set of primo rooms.

I also have to agree with several other posts. Is it really that bad to settle for a different room/view? Would it really be that bad to 'settle' for AKV SV vs concierge? After all it is still a trip to WDW & how much time do you spend in the room? I would rather be out and about.

Don't get me wrong I understand the frustration but what is wrong with spreading the wealth? Meaning some others get to experience the room/view that may normally not been lucky enough the first time around.

Man, I'm re-reading this again & I know I am going to be flamed. As long as I don't piss off Greenban I can deal with it. :worship: On the other hand, if Daitcher agrees with me I might be a bit scared. :innocent:

[greenban]

I just received the same exact canned response from member services re: the letter I wrote them. I can see how much their "value" our input. NOT!!!! :mad: :mad: I'm not saying one way or the other how I feel about the change because I just closed & have nothing to compare it to. I do however feel the rollout of the new policy was handled extremely badly. I will say that IMHO & it may be a very unpopular opinion, a trip to Disney is supposed to be fun & enjoyable, not a competitive sport. Again, JMHO.


;)

Actually I heard they only DIS (give the same canned response to) Horse people!

Well, that is what I heard!

-Tony

[Ransom]

So many thoughtful comments on this thread.

Trying to think it through, I don't believe we'll have a problem getting our 13-night reservation for a studio at VWL (our home resort) for 2009, which will be for mid-October. For 2010, we'll probably be going in mid-December (12th through the 25th :faint:). That one might be a problem even at 11 months, but there's really no way for me to know at this point.

Heck, by then they could have changed the policy in any number of ways. So I guess I'll have to pull a Scarlett on this one and "worry about that tomorrow."

The biggest thing bugging me at this point is not knowing how MS will ultimately decide to handle 8+ day reservations. The second biggest thing is the new waitlist rules. But I guess I'll just have to wait and see how those issues play out.

[greenban]

Ok I am going to ruffle some feathers here and this is just my opinion which doesn't count for much anyways. But with the small locations/busy dates there was never a guarantee anyone would always get what they wanted and I am sure every year there were disappointed people who didn't get what they ultimately wanted even when "gaming" the system. After all there is only a finite set of primo rooms.

I also have to agree with several other posts. Is it really that bad to settle for a different room/view? Would it really be that bad to 'settle' for AKV SV vs concierge? After all it is still a trip to WDW & how much time do you spend in the room? I would rather be out and about.

Don't get me wrong I understand the frustration but what is wrong with spreading the wealth? Meaning some others get to experience the room/view that may normally not been lucky enough the first time around.

Man, I'm re-reading this again & I know I am going to be flamed. As long as I don't piss off Greenban I can deal with it. :worship: On the other hand, if Daitcher agrees with me I might be a bit scared. :innocent:

Hey Suecait your at MouseOwner's now:

1) Your opinion counts as much and is as valid as anyone's!

2) We at MOs enjoy respectful debate and conversation, as long as no name calling is resorted to, no problems. Please note that: Idiots, Amateurs, Morons, Poopy Heads and Stoopid Poopyheads are not considered name calling!

3) It is very hard to piss-off a frog, infact that (pissing) is one of our primary defense mechanisms when picked up!

4) I do agree that agreeing with Daitcher is something to be scared of, very scared of. (I usually agree with David, BTW). Here is something *ALMOST* as scary:
http://fussypants.typepad.com/whatsmartmommiesknow/images/2007/12/19/4boys_frog_in_mouth.jpg

XOXOXO

-Tony

Also, none of the above means that you are correct or that your points are valid, BTW. Neener, Neener, Neen!

[suecait]

:hahahaha:

[zulaya]

suecait - I don't think anyone begrudges anyone's wishes to vacation where and how you want.

The meat of the matter is that any individual member no longer has control over calling like they did just a week ago.

If I didn't call at 11 months out at 9am to get AKV concierge (just using as an example), and I called later in the day because I slept in, got distracted, whatever, and I didn't get that CL room...that's the breaks and it was totally on me that I missed out.

Now, Members don't have control over who books up to a week ahead of them. Because someone is checking in before you are, they can book your arrival date and 7 days worth of members can book your arrival date so that when your arrival date comes, you call and you can't get the unit you want.

I don't think this is about a view, though that will play a part, but the more relevant issue would be points. If you were booking a studio, because you didn't have enough points for a 1BR, and no studios were available, you'd have to waitlist. And then you'd have to worry about if that waitlist would come through. The fact that all the studios could be booked on your arrival date BEFORE you even have a chance to call...you're up a creek without a paddle and probably not a boat either.

Not flaming you in any way...I'm just not sure if you grasped how the playing field, which was very equitable before the change, is not vastly different and IMHO, very unequitable.

[ggatorgirl]

I'm new to the MO Boards, but am struggling to understand all the angst about the changes. Seems to me that you are now just competing with a different group of DVC owners over reservations. Now, by calling relative to the day of arrival, I risk being shut out by folks who have earlier arrival dates. Under the old system, I could have been shut out by people who had the earlier departure dates.

In no way is this change affecting the number of rooms available, so I agree that it was probably just done to reduce the call to CRO.

[spiceycat]

my guess and this is just a guess.

to make sure members have enough points at BLT to do what they want. So they are announcing this now!!!

also MS is not well trained in how to do day-by-day - it takes a lot of traing and experience.

to take it out admits that MS does not understand it well.

If I had to wait 30 minutes or more on the phone waiting for MS to answer- then yes can see the new policy. but my biggest wait in around 6 months has been 5 minutes.

No - really think that some of the MS just doesn't understand the day by day. How many of them wanted to make you a new reservation for each day? that is just not knowing what they are doing. It make more paper work.

look at how many times it is the day by day that wasn't done properly. MS just can't do it. They should admit it and stop this - it is for your own good junk.

It is cost cutting - so they don't have to spend lots of time trying to train people who don't and probably will never understand the day by day thing.

there are too many of us - gone are the best when the MS was the best of the best.

suecait - hope no one says anything!!! you have a right to your opinions - no matter what.

as far as 'spreading the wealth' - well guess what most people don't - the reason the world is going bad.

[zulaya]

I've never had a MS advisor not know how to do day-by-day. As a matter of fact, I found out about DBD bookings from an Advisor before I read about it on internet. I'd bet those who don't get it are few and far between...or maybe I've just been lucky.

[suecait]

suecait - I don't think anyone begrudges anyone's wishes to vacation where and how you want.

The meat of the matter is that any individual member no longer has control over calling like they did just a week ago.

If I didn't call at 11 months out at 9am to get AKV concierge (just using as an example), and I called later in the day because I slept in, got distracted, whatever, and I didn't get that CL room...that's the breaks and it was totally on me that I missed out.

Now, Members don't have control over who books up to a week ahead of them. Because someone is checking in before you are, they can book your arrival date and 7 days worth of members can book your arrival date so that when your arrival date comes, you call and you can't get the unit you want.

I don't think this is about a view, though that will play a part, but the more relevant issue would be points. If you were booking a studio, because you didn't have enough points for a 1BR, and no studios were available, you'd have to waitlist. And then you'd have to worry about if that waitlist would come through. The fact that all the studios could be booked on your arrival date BEFORE you even have a chance to call...you're up a creek without a paddle and probably not a boat either.

Not flaming you in any way...I'm just not sure if you grasped how the playing field, which was very equitable before the change, is not vastly different and IMHO, very unequitable.

Trust me, I understand what people are saying, I can understand why they are upset. On the other hand, there wasn't a guarantee you would get your desired room anyways. As an example, AKV CL having 12 rooms (I could be wrong with that # but think that is what I read), there could be 13 phone calls right at 9 AM at the 11 month window. By dumb luck, someone misses out (and with my luck I would probably be that 13th person, so I can relate). The very next day it could be a different person.

There seems to be people feeling they have a right to a particular reservation over others even with the knowledge space is limited. I'll never be in said rooms, will never have the chance, I'm sure. I guess if it ever happens I will consider myself extremely lucky. JMHO.

[DVC Mike]

Now, Members don't have control over who books up to a week ahead of them. Because someone is checking in before you are, they can book your arrival date and 7 days worth of members can book your arrival date so that when your arrival date comes, you call and you can't get the unit you want.


And the person before you didn't get the reservation, because someone booked before them, and so on and so forth...

Sorry, but I just don't buy that reasoning. If you take that logic all the way, no one gets a reservation because there is always somebody booking an earlier date!

In any event, the POS says the reservation system must be first-come, first-served, and this new policy is just that.

[zulaya]

suecait...you are right...on any given day, with the old system, you could be the 13th caller. But it was up to you to be on the phone at 9am and be lucky. But regardless, you had the same chance as any other member calling for that specific date because EVERYONE was calling for the FIRST TIME for that specific date. ALL rooms were available at the same time on the same date. Everyone was on equal footing.

Now, when you are calling for your arrival date, it's not that way anymore. On your arrival date, there have been 7 days worth of members calling for that date BEFORE you even have a chance. Can you imagine the number of calls MS fields on an average day? And they have that advantage only by virtue of choosing arrival dates that are before yours. You have no control over that fact that is now part of the policy.

I may just have to give up trying to explain how I feel because I feel like I can't articulate in words why this policy is unfair in so many situations. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Blue&Gold]

Well put, Grandbuddy! I am surprised at the intensity of the negative reaction here. I can undertand both points of view- some like this- some don't- I understand the pros and cons. But I am shocked to see posts where people are saying they may as well sell their points... won't be adding-on as planned, etc...

Until this PROVES to be as problematic as so many are predicting I refuse to get myself into a twist over this. I trust I will continue to be a very happy traveller with or without the new booking policy.

Assuming (probably rightly so) that some folks are surprised at the intensity of my responses in particular... I want to lay out some additional thoughts and "surprises."

I am surprised at the idea that if this change materially effects our ability to vacation the way we want---we're not supposed to make a judgement about whether to continue to own or whether to buy more points... What? Is Disney infallable? Have I made a deal with the devil? I thought I was buying a real estate interest in a Vacation Club. Whatever they do, I should belly up to the trough and buy some more? Hate to tell you all, but being a Disney fan doesn't mean you have to let them sprinkle #&*% on your heads just because they call it pixie dust... (ooops... too intense?)

As folks read, remember this thread is 5 days old and most of the intense comments have been made about the manner in which the change has been made "public" (or failure to do so) and the fact that there were/are still questions about how to handle reservations of greater than 7 days... Something that could have been avoided by DVC by simply a) giving advance notice of the change and b) providing a "FAQ" type piece on the website explaining why and wherefore of the change.

Owing to family circumstances, my profession, and the simple logistics of travel to Orlando, our family vacations in 9-10 day blocks (Friday-Sunday). Depending on the implementation of the "how do you handle day 8 on" policy, we are either better off than before (or at least no worse off) OR we are at significant risk of having "broken stays" wherein even at the 11 month point we might have to change accomodations in our home resort. Don't think it'll matter at AKV... Don't think we were ever counting on the 5 Concierge rooms (2BRs, so there could be 10, I believe), but we own a significant chunk at BWV, we enjoy the BW view---have stayed in "preferred not BW' and had a great time, but prefer the BW view. Any angst I have is over the scenario of reserving 7 days in a BW view room (which are only 20% of inventory) and then finding that day 8-10 have to be in a different room. Is this the end of the universe? No, obviously not... But that's not how we want to vacation. I like putting down roots in our vacation "home" and not having to drag the family all over the resort. I'll even venture into the fact that we paid more for our BW points that others have for OKW or SSR because of our desire for the BW view and location... I don't think I'm owed anything more than an equitable opportunity to reserve our vacation against other BWV owners... (This thing will make 7-month swaps a nightmare for folks staying longer than 7 days, so "buy where you want to stay.")

All the folks out there offering platitudes about getting worked up or in a twist are in their way simply saying that because they aren't potentially impacted, they don't care. Fine... So don't post or comment. Live and let live and all that... These "forums" are for discussion... We're discussing the impacts of a rule change that effects some of us more than others. Just because my concerns aren't your concerns doesn't mean I shouldn't attempt to resolve them by discussing them here.

OBTW, I'm not even close to being "worked up." For the most part, I find the exhange here intellectually stimulating and entertaining. Have a magical day!

[jamstew]

I pretty much agree with zulaya. That category may be a problem during Food & Wine Festival. Just don't know yet. I think the week between the end of F&W and Thanksgiving is a lot easier to get than anything else in November. Jersey Week tends to go pretty quick - that's usually the first full week of November.

FWIW, I don't think the sleep sofas are all that bad, especially if you don't have to share it with another adult. If you are going with all adults, maybe you'd even prefer a lock off 2B to get the separate entance and kitchenette. If someone is sleeping in the living room, might be nice for those in the studio portion to be able to make coffee in their room or go in and out early & late without disturbing the living room people. :)

Good points, and it will be a group of adults. No one would have to share a sleeper sofa, since the maximum number we'll have is six. Having a kitchenette might be an advantage, though. I'll have to think about that, but I'm pretty sure we'll all be sticking together since I'm the only one who has been there recently. If everyone goes, we'll have one first timer, one who was last there the year Epcot opened, and two whose last trip was 10 years ago, so I'll definitely be the tour guide!

When is F&W over? My latest option is November 15-20 (Sunday-Friday).

[dvcnewgirl]

suecait...you are right...on any given day, with the old system, you could be the 13th caller. But it was up to you to be on the phone at 9am and be lucky. But regardless, you had the same chance as any other member calling for that specific date because EVERYONE was calling for the FIRST TIME for that specific date. ALL rooms were available at the same time on the same date. Everyone was on equal footing.

Now, when you are calling for your arrival date, it's not that way anymore. On your arrival date, there have been 7 days worth of members calling for that date BEFORE you even have a chance. Can you imagine the number of calls MS fields on an average day? And they have that advantage only by virtue of choosing arrival dates that are before yours. You have no control over that fact that is now part of the policy.

I may just have to give up trying to explain how I feel because I feel like I can't articulate in words why this policy is unfair in so many situations. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

:iagree: AMEN!:headbange

I feel the same way and I need to agree to disagree too..:handshake otherwise I am going to drive myself CRAZY!:blech:

[captcaveman]

As for the DDP analogy, I couldn't agree less. The first involves lying (my behavior at times aside, an adult is not a child). The second does not (I am allowed to book reservations, and I am allowed to change reservations).

If you believe that one is different than the other, let me point something out. The DDP usage was within the rules because the system pooled all credits together and did not distinguish adult credits from child credits. If that is lying, then so is booking days one has absolutely no intention of using to gain an reservation advantage.

[glypnirsgirl]

In re-reading the posts where people are upset about this change, I can relate. I am still PO'd because of Food and Wine Fest. When I originally bought my points in 1994, there was no F&W Fest. I bought exactly the number of points that I needed to book a Grand Villa at OKW every 2.5 years for the specific week I liked to travel which was the first week of October. I like the weather at WDW then, it is still warm enough to swim, but cool enough to enjoy the parks. I have not been able to book a GV at my favorite time of the year in many years (it did not help that I would wait until the beginning of my June UY to try to book either). I am still mad. I want WDW to STOP F&W so no one else will want to go during MY FAVORITE TIME OF THE YEAR. THE TIME THAT I BOUGHT MY POINTS TO GO!

I really mean this!

Elaine

[Blue&Gold]

In any event, the POS says the reservation system must be first-come, first-served, and this new policy is just that.

I realize I am beating a dead horse on this here... But this is only true if MS applies the rolling "x + 7" interpretation of the rule and not the "reserve a week/wait a week" interpretation reported by some. Following the "one week, wait a week" system is unfair, it is against the principle of first-come, first-served, and fundamentally changes the DVC ownership from a "day-based" points system to a "week-based" system.

Under the "wait a week concept"
Hypothetically, I want to vacation 1-10 Dec. I have the correct points...

I call on 1 Jan to reserve the nights of 1-7 Dec... (All good...)
on 2 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 2-8 Dec
on 3 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 3-9 Dec
on 4 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 4-10 Dec
on 5 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 5-11 Dec
on 6 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 6-12 Dec
on 7 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 7-13 Dec
on 8 Jan I can call to reserve days 8-10 Dec (the 8th has now been "in play" for 6 days, 9th for 5, 10th for 4...)

In what universe is that "first-come, first-served?" That goes without saying that "my" reservation of 1-7 Dec is cutting out some other caller who may have wanted Nov 26-Jan 4th for example and had to wait to get their last few days---which I now have.

This isn't a reasonable system. The old system was reasonable, but inefficient.

I'm not proposing add-a-day, drop-a-day (which may be unpalatable, but unavoidable unless they limit the number of cancellations one can make in a year, a' la the "commercial renting rule---simply disallowing cancellations is unreasonable), I just want to accept the new DVC paradigm of allowing you do reserve 7 days ahead and allow me to call on Jan 2nd to get Dec 8th... Competing for that reservation with other people calling for the first time for that day.

[glypnirsgirl]

I realize I am beating a dead horse on this here... But this is only true if MS applies the rolling "x + 7" interpretation of the rule and not the "reserve a week/wait a week" interpretation reported by some. Following the "one week, wait a week" system is unfair, it is against the principle of first-come, first-served, and fundamentally changes the DVC ownership from a "day-based" points system to a "week-based" system.

Under the "wait a week concept"
Hypothetically, I want to vacation 1-10 Dec. I have the correct points...

I call on 1 Jan to reserve the nights of 1-7 Dec... (All good...)
on 2 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 2-8 Dec
on 3 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 3-9 Dec
on 4 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 4-10 Dec
on 5 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 5-11 Dec
on 6 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 6-12 Dec
on 7 Jan I can't call, but others call to reserve 7-13 Dec
on 8 Jan I can call to reserve days 8-10 Dec (the 8th has now been "in play" for 6 days, 9th for 5, 10th for 4...)

In what universe is that "first-come, first-served?" That goes without saying that "my" reservation of 1-7 Dec is cutting out some other caller who may have wanted Nov 26-Jan 4th for example and had to wait to get their last few days---which I now have.

This isn't a reasonable system. The old system was reasonable, but inefficient.

I'm not proposing add-a-day, drop-a-day (which may be unpalatable, but unavoidable unless they limit the number of cancellations one can make in a year, a' la the "commercial renting rule---simply disallowing cancellations is unreasonable), I just want to accept the new DVC paradigm of allowing you do reserve 7 days ahead and allow me to call on Jan 2nd to get Dec 8th... Competing for that reservation with other people calling for the first time for that day.


Isn;t this the way that this is actually playing out? Even if some cms do not understand the system and want to wait a week --- doesn't the computer allow them to make that 8th day reservation on 11+ 7 in advance. Is there anyone that thinks that the 11+7 in advance that allows day 8 to be booked the next day and day 9 to be booked the day after that is still unfair?

Elaine

[carolina_yankee]

And the person before you didn't get the reservation, because someone booked before them, and so on and so forth...

Sorry, but I just don't buy that reasoning. If you take that logic all the way, no one gets a reservation because there is always somebody booking an earlier date!

In any event, the POS says the reservation system must be first-come, first-served, and this new policy is just that.
I see your point, but I still disagree with you in the case of reservations for Christmas and NYE. Preference is given to those who choose to arrive on the 18th rather than those who choose to arrive later. I'm not sure I'm willing to say that those who arrive on the 18th fall into the 'first come, first served category.' Because of the days of the week Christmas can fall and school schedules, many, many people just don't have the flexibility to be 'first.'

Under the old system, each date was a 'first come, first served' situation for everyone. Now, this benefits the earlier arrivals.

No one is guaranteed the time frame they want in a points-based system, but you still had a better chance previously.

However, for the rest of the year, I grant your premise. I suspect all but a very teeny, tiny group of people will still get reasonable accommodations for the time they want.

Dirk

[Blue&Gold]

Isn;t this the way that this is actually playing out? Even if some cms do not understand the system and want to wait a week --- doesn't the computer allow them to make that 8th day reservation on 11+ 7 in advance. Is there anyone that thinks that the 11+7 in advance that allows day 8 to be booked the next day and day 9 to be booked the day after that is still unfair?


I believe so... But there have been reports to the contrary. Again :horse::horse::horse: All DVC would need to do is explain this on the Member Website... Though I may be "vocal," I know I'm not the only DVC member in the herd who wants to stay longer than 7 nights...



Is there anyone that thinks that the 11+7 in advance that allows day 8 to be booked the next day and day 9 to be booked the day after that is still unfair?

Elaine

Not me... I think this would be fair and would meet the stated goal of allowing the vast majority of owners to make their reservations in one call, while allowing owners looking for a longer stay a reasonable chance of building the vacation they desire.

[glypnirsgirl]

B&G - I agree with you. I think that this is fair and allows people to build the vacation that they want. I hope that this is the way that it is.

I also think that all of the angst could have been avoided by proper communication from member services as you previously suggested.

Elaine

[Blue&Gold]

B&G - I agree with you. I think that this is fair and allows people to build the vacation that they want. I hope that this is the way that it is.

I also think that all of the angst could have been avoided by proper communication from member services as you previously suggested.

Elaine

I liked your "end the Food & Wine" post... :hehehehe:

I realize that to some it sounds selfish to not necessarily want what many quite clearly see the benefit in... But that is not my intent at all. As a business decision, I can't see how penalizing (or even complicating the process) for longer-stays is in Disney's benefit. It clearly isn't, from check-in to Mousekeeping to keeping my family hostage on the reservation and selling us $3 bottles of water for a fortnight.

My frustration with DVC is with communication and the fairness of the policy. Both of those can be fixed and I'll be right back at the trough trying to figure out whether to add more AKV or buy that Dec UY BCV contract at The Timeshare Store... I'd much rather be comparing and contrasting the potential pros and cons of BLT vs a resale at VWL...

Admittedly, my frustration with some fellow MouseOwner posters is in their inability to accept that there is a downside to this policy shift. Maybe the up is greater than the down, but that hasn't been universally accepted or proven... Eeek... Did I say Universal?

[JimP]

At the end of the day this rule change benefits no members... zilch!

For many people... it is a don't care.

For people who own a small number of points... it harms their ability to get reservations. I loved the example of someone who owns enough points to book a studio (and not a 1BR). That person may call at 9:00 am on the first day of their reservation... and find that there are no studio units available period. We are not talking about AKV concierge rooms... we are talking about studios!!! That person has no other option... even though they called at 9:00 on the day the Disney told them is the first day to call.

I think this policy will harm virtually everyone who wants to switch resorts at the 7 month window. The only people not affected significantly will be the mega-point owners. Even at my modest 550 points... I will be affected at 7 month reservations.

Because of the 7 month problem... I think this just exacerbates the issues with SSR... at least if you buy into the theory that SSR folks try to switch reservations at 7 months more than other members. This in turn makes SSR even less valuable.

Personally, I am glad that I own a moderate number of points at BWV. I would not want to be a small point owner... or an owner that desires to switch resorts at 7 months... especially during busier times.

/Jim

[cheapmom]

Assuming (probably rightly so) that some folks are surprised at the intensity of my responses in particular... I want to lay out some additional thoughts and "surprises."

I am surprised at the idea that if this change materially effects our ability to vacation the way we want---we're not supposed to make a judgement about whether to continue to own or whether to buy more points...

My point is I wouldn't make such a judgement unless the policy actually hinders the value of your membership to the point that you feel selling is the best thing for you/your family. Right now I think it is premature (and kind of crazy IMO) to say that it is time to sell since you haven't actually had a negative experience as of yet- you only have a theory that it will not work for you- so while you have every right to sell your points because you don't like the policy (I have no idea if you were one of the ones who said that) I just think it is kind of nutty as we have practically no stats/data/etc on people's experiences/successes/failures booking under the new rules.

[Gaston]

No flames please, as I am still trying to form my honest opinion on all this.
The various scenarios presented under the new system is probably only going to affect major holidays/events/ most popular resorts. Yes or no?
As I never call on my first day, or even first week at the 11/7 window, this doesn't affect me. Yes or no?
I never book during holidays, so this doesn't affect me. Yes or no?
Finally, and I think I already understand that this will affect me, booking at GCV will be a nightmare during holidays. Yes or no?
Thanks ahead of time, for responses.

[JimP]

No flames please, as I am still trying to form my honest opinion on all this.
The various scenarios presented under the new system is probably only going to affect major holidays/events/ most popular resorts. Yes or no?
As I never call on my first day, or even first week at the 11/7 window, this doesn't affect me. Yes or no?
I never book during holidays, so this doesn't affect me. Yes or no?
Finally, and I think I already understand that this will affect me, booking at GCV will be a nightmare during holidays. Yes or no?
Thanks ahead of time, for responses.

1) No - heavy usage is not simply dictated by just holidays. For example, early December at VWL will become much worse.
2) Yes - if you don't ever book early... you are unaffected.
3) No - same as #1
4) I think that GCV will be very hard period unless you own there. If you want GCV during a major holiday... then you may want to have enough GCV points for 8 nights in your prefered unit type. If DVC changes the rules even more (ex: 11 + 14 days)... then you would want to own even more points (IE: enough for 15 nights) if you wanted to gaurantee your reservation during a peak time.

Regarding the desire by many here to increase the window even further... so they only need to make one call for a stay longer than a week... this only increases the probablily that all the units will be gone when you call to make your initial reservation.

/Jim

[Blue&Gold]

My point is I wouldn't make such a judgement unless the policy actually hinders the value of your membership to the point that you feel selling is the best thing for you/your family. Right now I think it is premature (and kind of crazy IMO) to say that it is time to sell since you haven't actually had a negative experience as of yet- you only have a theory that it will not work for you- so while you have every right to sell your points because you don't like the policy (I have no idea if you were one of the ones who said that) I just think it is kind of nutty as we have practically no stats/data/etc on people's experiences/successes/failures booking under the new rules.

I agree in practice... I never wrote that I was putting them up for sale "today." But, that being said, in principle I wouldn't sit on train tracks once I heard a whistle... I don't have to wait for the train to hit me to understand that it would be bad.

[Delaware Mike]

Don't get all caught up in this if you don't travel during peak times for DVC. You aren't going to have a problem.

I disagree.

I fear this is the beginning of a long trip down a slippery slope.

With DVC literally having complete disregard for the terms of the POS, along with other occurances, more change is to come which will affect us in various future unknown ways...for the good or for the bad. With this latest DVC action, I feel now is the time to hopefully stop their disregard of the idea of equal treatment of all members.

The hype perpetuated by DVC marketing about how this latest change is due to overwhelming member feedback is just that, in my opinion...hype. Where is evidence presented showing this supposed feedback? Here? On other boards like this one? Its been stated ad nauseum how members like us, posting on fan boards, are in the vast minority. So with the number of member posting positive comments here, and on other boards, is this truly representative of an overwhelming postive response? I think not.

I think someone presented the idea this is part of an overall effort to sell more points and I agree.

(Oh, and please...no one take offense to these comments as I truly respect your opinions. No offense is intended in any way as I will not attack anyone's opinion here. Thank you.)

I find DVC in direct violation of the POS by not following the rules stated within, and I intend to notify them of the possibility of action if this policy is allowed to stand.

Additionally, I find DVC is creating an environment of bias, also an actionable issue. DVC has created an unfair advantage for those booking reservations of less than 7 days duration. This is unfair to me, which provides me standing for any action, as I book longer vacations. DVC needs to realize MY points are just as valuable as anyone else, and I deserve to book with the same advantage as anyone else...period. The previous policy of booking at 11 / 7 months from date of departure provides that equality.

Thank you all for sharing your opinions on this issue, as I've found all posts to be enlightening (and some have also been enjoyable).

Delaware Mike

[StotheK]

I've pretty much stayed out of this since I live in the middle of the "don't care" campground at this point. There's been some good points both ways, but there's something I just have to wonder about.

An assumption is being made that DVC was fully aware of the potential to "game the system" by point-rich members booking up to 7 days ahead and canceling followed by speculation that it is a ploy to get people to stock up on points. An equal number of people make mention that DVC management are collectively not the brightest bulbs on Main Street.

So that maybe makes me wonder, perhaps they did not actually realize there would be such a loophole in the system before implementing the new policy. This makes much more sense to me as opposed to it being a disregard for a certain population of renters or an outright conspiracy.

[Carol]

I disagree.

I fear this is the beginning of a long trip down a slippery slope.

With DVC literally having complete disregard for the terms of the POS, along with other occurances, more change is to come which will affect us in various future unknown ways...for the good or for the bad. With this latest DVC action, I feel now is the time to hopefully stop their disregard of the idea of equal treatment of all members.

The hype perpetuated by DVC marketing about how this latest change is due to overwhelming member feedback is just that, in my opinion...hype. Where is evidence presented showing this supposed feedback? Here? On other boards like this one? Its been stated ad nauseum how members like us, posting on fan boards, are in the vast minority. So with the number of member posting positive comments here, and on other boards, is this truly representative of an overwhelming postive response? I think not.

I think someone presented the idea this is part of an overall effort to sell more points and I agree.

(Oh, and please...no one take offense to these comments as I truly respect your opinions. No offense is intended in any way as I will not attack anyone's opinion here. Thank you.)

I find DVC in direct violation of the POS by not following the rules stated within, and I intend to notify them of the possibility of action if this policy is allowed to stand.

Additionally, I find DVC is creating an environment of bias, also an actionable issue. DVC has created an unfair advantage for those booking reservations of less than 7 days duration. This is unfair to me, which provides me standing for any action, as I book longer vacations. DVC needs to realize MY points are just as valuable as anyone else, and I deserve to book with the same advantage as anyone else...period. The previous policy of booking at 11 / 7 months from date of departure provides that equality.

Thank you all for sharing your opinions on this issue, as I've found all posts to be enlightening (and some have also been enjoyable).

Delaware MikeMike - I agree with most of your comments. However, you did take my partial quote out of context. It was directed only at jamstew who was worried about the change on his/her particular situation. There is no need to get into a tizzy over getting your reservation under the new booking policy if you book at 11 months and travel during periods that are not busy for DVC members. I stand by that comment.

If DVC continues to "tweak" the booking rules without notice and without careful consideration for the impact on members (and they can, unfortunately), then there are likely to be more and more upset members. Me included.

I've pretty much stayed out of this since I live in the middle of the "don't care" campground at this point. There's been some good points both ways, but there's something I just have to wonder about.

An assumption is being made that DVC was fully aware of the potential to "game the system" by point-rich members booking up to 7 days ahead and canceling followed by speculation that it is a ploy to get people to stock up on points. An equal number of people make mention that DVC management are collectively not the brightest bulbs on Main Street.

So that maybe makes me wonder, perhaps they did not actually realize there would be such a loophole in the system before implementing the new policy. This makes much more sense to me as opposed to it being a disregard for a certain population of renters or an outright conspiracy.It's possible, maybe even probable. I've come to believe that in most situations, it's hardly ever "Malice and Aforethought". It's almost always just plain old INCOMPETENCE!

But if so, double shame on them for not thinking it through. If they really don't have the knowledge required to identify the effects of a change, how hard would it be to get a group of members together (like those of us who post on the boards) to comment on proposed changes? It would take less than a day for them to collect all the impacts of a proposed change. Then at least they could make an informed decision.

Their change communication process certainly stinks. If the DVC leadership team really has no idea how members use their product, then there's truly something "rotten in Denmark"!!!

[erikthewise]

It's possible, maybe even probable. I've come to believe that in most situations, it's hardly ever "Malice and Aforethought". It's almost always just plain old INCOMPETENCE!



Conspiracy theories are nearly always wrong. Incompetence theories are nearly always right. :umbrella:

[JimP]

I have come to the conclusion that there is no way that the policy will remain "as is". It is so flawed... that DVC will either:
1) Drop it and go back to "day of check-out" (preferred method)
2) Change it significantly... which will only make it worse
The reason I say this is because I recently realized that the new rules are MUCH worse than I even imagined (and I have a pretty good imagination). Essentially... anyone who owns enough points for 7 nights (8 is better) in a unit can essentially guarantee a particular room for any date in the future.

Background: First you need to secure a 7 day reservation in the type of unit that you want. This could be a significant period of time ahead of your desired check-in date:

Once you have this 7 day reservation, you can wait one day, and then perform one of two operations to modify it:

1) Walk it: Add day 8, drop day 1... creating a new 7 day reservation 1 day later
2) Extend it: Add day 8... creating a longer reservation

The interesting thing is: Once you have that 7 day reservation booked... nobody else can book the next day for your particular unit. You are guaranteed to be able to book that day and you do not even have to call at 9:00 am to do so. In fact... it seems that you do not even have to call for 6 more days (with caveats listed later)... because nobody can take the next night(s) away from you. Hence: you really have the following options:

1) Walk it by up to 6 days... add 6 days to the end, and drop 6 days from the beginning
2) Extend it by up to 6 days... simply add 6 days to the end

To illustrate this point... lets pick a unit type that has a small number of units available. I believe there are only 7 BWV GV's... so this is a good example.

You call and get a week in a BWV GV. Worse case is 6 other people do the same thing... so they are all booked. The next day... there are only 7 people on the planet who can possibly even book the following (8th) day... and you are one of them. In fact... even if you fail to call, you can still call the following day and extend by 2 nights... or you can wait 6 days and extend by 6 nights. Your reservation has blocked that particular room from being booked by anyone for the next 6 nights.

The reason for this is because DVC is NOT allowing "split reservation". So in order to book a particular room for a day exactly 11 months + 7 days from today... you must already have the previous 6 days booked...or they must be otherwise available. Since in the case above you already have the GV booked... essentially one unit is being held exclusively for you for the next 6 days.

So lets say you want a BWV GV for New Years '09. You could book a 7 night stay today for May 25th 2009 (11 month window)... and then call every six days to walk it. Once you reach the desired check-in date, you would stop walking it... but then would either begin extending it (for more than a 7 day stay)... or cancel the extra nights (shortening it).

Now... what could go wrong? I can think of a few things:

1) If the units are re-configurable (IE: 2BR lockoffs)... then the number of particular unit types available can change on a day to day basis... so you could be out of luck walking a reservation... especially if you do not call at 9:00 every day

2) Units are taken out of inventory for maintenance/refurbishment

3) Units are taken out of inventory by DVC for II trades and/or cash reservations

4) Probably more

However... those issues would probably not be a problem as the number of rooms within a given type increased (ex: 1BR BW view). This is especially true of you did call each morning at 9:00 instead of waiting for 6 days.

Because of this... I think the current situation is basically unstable... and no unstable situations can persist in nature. So I believe that the policy is virtually guaranteed to change. Let's just hope that that DVC thinks this through rationally. In order of decreasing preference... the options would be:

1) Go back to "day of checkout" and implement on-line booking
2) Go back to "day of checkout"
3) Keep the new policy (which I think cannot possibly persist)
4) Keep the new policy and fix the problems... which I think will make the situation worse

/Jim

[burcs]

The reason for this is because DVC is NOT allowing "split reservation". So in order to book a particular room for a day exactly 11 months + 7 days from today... you must already have the previous 6 days booked...or they must be otherwise available. Since in the case above you already have the GV booked... essentially one unit is being held exclusively for you for the next 6 days.


excellent post.

[JimP]

It is 4:30 am... I am tired... I am still jet lagged... and I am heading to the Taiwan airport in a couple of hours. If I made any mistakes above, then I will have to respond in 24+ hours when I get back home.

/Jim

[burcs]

It is 4:30 am... I am tired... I am still jet lagged... and I am heading to the Taiwan airport in a couple of hours.

i'm jealous. not about the jet lag part, but in a 1 1/2 hours you could walk out onto the street and find yourself a nice fresh shao bing you tiao.

[Blue&Gold]

i'm jealous. not about the jet lag part, but in a 1 1/2 hours you could walk out onto the street and find yourself a nice fresh shao bing you tiao.

Let's keep it clean, folks... I'm surprised Dirk hasn't scolded me for my "pixie dust" comment :drillserg

[Blue&Gold]

Because of this... I think the current situation is basically unstable... and no unstable situations can persist in nature.

Chaos theory wrt DVC? I believe it...

Good post, though I need to get out a flow chart to see if it holds together.

[administrator]

Let's keep it clean, folks... I'm surprised Dirk hasn't scolded me for my "pixie dust" comment :drillserg


One man's pixie dust is another man's compost.

[JimP]

Chaos theory wrt DVC? I believe it...

Good post, though I need to get out a flow chart to see if it holds together.

I look forward to your analyis.

/Jim

[suecait]

Essentially... anyone who owns enough points for 7 nights (8 is better) in a unit can essentially guarantee a particular room for any date in the future.

Background: First you need to secure a 7 day reservation in the type of unit that you want. This could be a significant period of time ahead of your desired check-in date:

Once you have this 7 day reservation, you can wait one day, and then perform one of two operations to modify it:

1) Walk it: Add day 8, drop day 1... creating a new 7 day reservation 1 day later
2) Extend it: Add day 8... creating a longer reservation

The interesting thing is: Once you have that 7 day reservation booked... nobody else can book the next day for your particular unit. You are guaranteed to be able to book that day and you do not even have to call at 9:00 am to do so. In fact... it seems that you do not even have to call for 6 more days (with caveats listed later)... because nobody can take the next night(s) away from you. Hence: you really have the following options:

1) Walk it by up to 6 days... add 6 days to the end, and drop 6 days from the beginning
2) Extend it by up to 6 days... simply add 6 days to the end

To illustrate this point... lets pick a unit type that has a small number of units available. I believe there are only 7 BWV GV's... so this is a good example.

You call and get a week in a BWV GV. Worse case is 6 other people do the same thing... so they are all booked. The next day... there are only 7 people on the planet who can possibly even book the following (8th) day... and you are one of them. In fact... even if you fail to call, you can still call the following day and extend by 2 nights... or you can wait 6 days and extend by 6 nights. Your reservation has blocked that particular room from being booked by anyone for the next 6 nights.

The reason for this is because DVC is NOT allowing "split reservation". So in order to book a particular room for a day exactly 11 months + 7 days from today... you must already have the previous 6 days booked...or they must be otherwise available. Since in the case above you already have the GV booked... essentially one unit is being held exclusively for you for the next 6 days.

So lets say you want a BWV GV for New Years '09. You could book a 7 night stay today for May 25th 2009 (11 month window)... and then call every six days to walk it. Once you reach the desired check-in date, you would stop walking it... but then would either begin extending it (for more than a 7 day stay)... or cancel the extra nights (shortening it).

Now... what could go wrong? I can think of a few things:

1) If the units are re-configurable (IE: 2BR lockoffs)... then the number of particular unit types available can change on a day to day basis... so you could be out of luck walking a reservation... especially if you do not call at 9:00 every day

2) Units are taken out of inventory for maintenance/refurbishment

3) Units are taken out of inventory by DVC for II trades and/or cash reservations

4) Probably more

However... those issues would probably not be a problem as the number of rooms within a given type increased (ex: 1BR BW view). This is especially true of you did call each morning at 9:00 instead of waiting for 6 days.

Because of this... I think the current situation is basically unstable... and no unstable situations can persist in nature. So I believe that the policy is virtually guaranteed to change. Let's just hope that that DVC thinks this through rationally. In order of decreasing preference... the options would be:

1) Go back to "day of checkout" and implement on-line booking
2) Go back to "day of checkout"
3) Keep the new policy (which I think cannot possibly persist)
4) Keep the new policy and fix the problems... which I think will make the situation worse

/Jim

OMG, reading it through once makes sense, didn't even think of it this way. I am not even going to try to poke any holes in it (that would mean having to read it all through again). I do look forward to other responses from more seasoned MO's.

[cheapmom]

...
The interesting thing is: Once you have that 7 day reservation booked... nobody else can book the next day for your particular unit....

To illustrate this point... lets pick a unit type that has a small number of units available. I believe there are only 7 BWV GV's... so this is a good example.

You call and get a week in a BWV GV. Worse case is 6 other people do the same thing... so they are all booked. The next day... there are only 7 people on the planet who can possibly even book the following (8th) day... and you are one of them. In fact... even if you fail to call, you can still call the following day and extend by 2 nights... or you can wait 6 days and extend by 6 nights. Your reservation has blocked that particular room from being booked by anyone for the next 6 nights.

The reason for this is because DVC is NOT allowing "split reservation". So in order to book a particular room for a day exactly 11 months + 7 days from today... you must already have the previous 6 days booked...or they must be otherwise available. Since in the case above you already have the GV booked... essentially one unit is being held exclusively for you for the next 6 days. ...
/Jim
Jim- you just blew my mind. I never thought of it that way. Great logic, including all the caveots that followed- but I didn't quote all that. Very smart analysis- maybe you should get jet lag more often.

It is kind of what DVCMike has been saying all along- (paraphrasing) if nobody is getting their reservations- then who the heck is in all the rooms?- I think that DVC reservations are pretty fluid- always someone checking-in, always somebody checking-out. Sure some dates are more desirable than others- as has always been the case- and "based on availability" is a concept we all understand as the unfortunate flip-side to the wonderfully flexible points system.

by the way: I got a call from DVC today, appologizing for sending me an inappropriate response to my email and just a friendly, customer service type call saying they are watching the new policy and will address problems if they arise.

[Blue&Gold]

One man's pixie dust is another man's compost.

So true...

[Blue&Gold]

I look forward to your analyis.

/Jim


Jim,
I think the phenomona you describe will be true for those very specific limited availability rooms like the 7 BWV GVs and the 5 2 BR AKV Concierge rooms. I think there may/will be periods of "ressie lock out" in the smaller resorts---BCV and VWL, particularly their 2 BR dedicated rooms. Ditto OKW and AKV GVs, which number in the low dozens.

I do think you point out the major gap in the universal application---large inventory rooms with more than one configuration like the non-dedicated 2BRs, particularly at the expanded AKV, BWV, and obviously OKW and SSR... Since the DVC reservation program doesn't actually assign "rooms" (actual people at the individual resorts do that---professional Tetris players, as I describe them) but only class type availability, the fact that rooms "pass" back and forth between the studio/1br configuration and the 2 br configuration means that new inventory can come into play on a given day event without "you" failing to reserve a particular room---allowing a new player into the mix! Since I don't know whether fixed amounts of resorts are allocated to maintenance/rehab at any given moment, that may also come into play---not to mention CRO usage and priorities.

If your theory holds true, my concern about 8+ day reservations is lessened. What is growing is my conviction that "they" couldn't have thought this one all the way through!

----Llew

[gflatto]

It seems to me that the scenario that Jim laid out would be the reason for NOT allowing daily add-ons to 7 day reservations that you made. If they didn't allow you to call for the 8th night until 11/7 months before that day, then you don't have the room locked up.

I know that the system has apparently allowed adding day by day, but there was at least one instance of MS saying you couldn't. And I think it puzzled folks why you shouldn't be able to, but it might be exactly this scenario.

[burcs]

professional Tetris players, as I describe them

wait, you can do this and get a CM discount?

sign me up!

[tomandrobin]

It is 4:30 am... I am tired... I am still jet lagged... and I am heading to the Taiwan airport in a couple of hours. If I made any mistakes above, then I will have to respond in 24+ hours when I get back home.

/Jim

nite nite Jim......take two of these :chillpill:chillpill and we'll see you Friday!

[JimP]

It seems to me that the scenario that Jim laid out would be the reason for NOT allowing daily add-ons to 7 day reservations that you made. If they didn't allow you to call for the 8th night until 11/7 months before that day, then you don't have the room locked up.

I know that the system has apparently allowed adding day by day, but there was at least one instance of MS saying you couldn't. And I think it puzzled folks why you shouldn't be able to, but it might be exactly this scenario.

What you are saying is a perfect example of how they can take a bad situation and make it worse. The person who started his/her reservation now "further down the pipe"... and can all of a sudden find themselves with a failed reservation. It would be much worse than using the old system of waiting until check-out day to book... because now there are 7 days worth of people pre-booking the second half of your reservation.

This whole booking change really stinks. The solution is NOT to apply band-aid fixes to the mess they created. They need to sweep the mess away and go back to the old system that actually worked.

If they have a problem with call volume... then fix the problem with technology... not broken policies.

/Jim

[JimP]

...the fact that rooms "pass" back and forth between the studio/1br configuration and the 2 br configuration means that new inventory can come into play on a given day event without "you" failing to reserve a particular room---allowing a new player into the mix! Since I don't know whether fixed amounts of resorts are allocated to maintenance/rehab at any given moment, that may also come into play---not to mention CRO usage and priorities.

Yes... I pointed this out in my analysis. Other factors also come into play as we both indicated.

Also note that the same unit reclassifications that can bring new players into the mix... can also work the opposite way as well... removing players from the game.

Jim,
I think the phenomona you describe will be true for those very specific limited availability rooms like the 7 BWV GVs and the 5 2 BR AKV Concierge rooms. I think there may/will be periods of "ressie lock out" in the smaller resorts--BCV and VWL, particularly their 2 BR dedicated rooms. Ditto OKW and AKV GVs, which number in the low dozens.

I believe that the phenomona will be most accute for the room classifications with small inventory... but it does in fact apply to all room classes... especially those with somewhat fixed configurations. Examples would be any dedicated type room (dedicated studio, dedicated 1BR, dedicated 2BR, ect). I believe that all GV's are dedicated, which is why I chose them in my example (along with the small number of them which makes it easier to visualize).

/Jim

[JimP]

nite nite Jim......take two of these :chillpill:chillpill and we'll see you Friday!

Im connected again... this time in the Singapore Airline lounge waiting for my flight. I am actually flying United... but there is not a red carpet club here... so we use SA lounge instead.

I'll be back in the states this morning. I depart from Taipei today at noon (Thursday)... and arrive in SF Thursday morning... before I left. Too bad that there is not negative flight time involved LOL

I will be on vacation for the next 10 days. The first 5 will be at the beach condo in Seaside... followed by 5 days of camping. I am not too sure how good the internet connection will be at the campsite. I'll be using a sprint aircard.

Then... back on a plane to Tokyo for 3 nights.

/Jim

[suecait]

This is a bit off the topic but I have seen reference throughout the thread of making cash reservations. I know this is possible but I would assume there is a limit to how much can be allowed. I believe I read somewhere that DVC keeps somewhere around 3-5 % (I may be wrong with the #) interest in each resort. If that be the case it would stand to reason that would be all they could reserve as cash. Would that assumption be correct? I know they don't want to leave rooms sitting open without selling but don't they have to keep a certain amount of rooms open for DVC members who may book last minute?

[spindoctors]

You call and get a week in a BWV GV. Worse case is 6 other people do the same thing... so they are all booked. The next day... there are only 7 people on the planet who can possibly even book the following (8th) day... and you are one of them. In fact... even if you fail to call, you can still call the following day and extend by 2 nights... or you can wait 6 days and extend by 6 nights. Your reservation has blocked that particular room from being booked by anyone for the next 6 nights.
/Jim

Help me! I'm a newbie, and I don't understand. Why couldn't someone call on your potential 8th day if it was their check-in day?:bugeyed:

[JimP]

Help me! I'm a newbie, and I don't understand. Why couldn't someone call on your potential 8th day if it was their check-in day?:bugeyed:

Because the 8th day is beyond the 11 month window... so they need to wait another 7 days before they could try to book it as their first day. The person holding the reservation is able to book it because their check in date was a week earlier.

/Jim

[spindoctors]

Ahhhhh! Now I get it! So I really don't have to worry about getting my 8th and 9th days added to my trip! If you speak slowly and use little words, I eventually catch on....

[glypnirsgirl]

JimP
If they have a problem with call volume... then fix the problem with technology... not broken policies.




I believe that the problem that they were trying to fix was indeed call volume. I TOTALLY AGREE that technology, not this policy, is the answer.

My original documents require advance notice before instituting any change. I still do not possess any actual notice of the change. I agree with Delaware Mike that they have a potential lawsuit on their hands from DVC members with old POS documents (for certain) and even from new members on a "fair and equal" ownership interest argument.

Elaine

[JimP]

Ahhhhh! Now I get it! So I really don't have to worry about getting my 8th and 9th days added to my trip! If you speak slowly and use little words, I eventually catch on....

But you will have to worry once they change the rules again... which seems likely to me. The newly changed system is just too broken.

/Jim

[onecdn]

Because the 8th day is beyond the 11 month window... so they need to wait another 7 days before they could try to book it as their first day. The person holding the reservation is able to book it because their check in date was a week earlier.

/Jim

Next dumb question:
What is the point of the 7 night limit on the stay?
If you can call at 11 months plus 7d and book 7 nights, then call back again the next day and book the 8th night - is this not a tremendous waste of the member's and MS's time by requiring two phone calls to get the 8th night? What on earth is the point of making the member wait a day to book the 8th night? As you pointed out earlier, it's not like anybody else can book that eighth night...
Heck, if you can call and book 7 nights, then gradually shift the ressie, why bother to put a limit on number of nights at all? Why not just make the limit whatever the member can afford with their points and be done with it?
OK that was a whole bunch of dumb questions....:dunce:

[spindoctors]

Jim:
I totally agree with you. I'm not even sure "they" really know what the new policy is. It seems very fluid.

[JimP]

I believe that the problem that they were trying to fix was indeed call volume. I TOTALLY AGREE that technology, not this policy, is the answer.

My original documents require advance notice before instituting any change. I still do not possess any actual notice of the change. I agree with Delaware Mike that they have a potential lawsuit on their hands from DVC members with old POS documents (for certain) and even from new members on a "fair and equal" ownership interest argument.

Elaine

You lawyers are just so smart. :) It is amazing how you as an attorney and I as an engineer will look at a problem so differently... and together come up with a better solution than either could by themselves. I really enjoy working with our corporate attorneys (except when they tell me I shouldnt do something ;))

What amazes me about lawyers is how they can construct sentences that nobody else can understand. For example... every contract I've looked at has the phrase "but for". I never realized that a single sentance could be constucted using both the words "but" and "for"... never mind using them sequentially. :)

/Jim

[carolina_yankee]

Let's keep it clean, folks... I'm surprised Dirk hasn't scolded me for my "pixie dust" comment :drillserg

I was too busy laughing.

Dirk

[glypnirsgirl]

You lawyers are just so smart. :) It is amazing how you as an attorney and I as an engineer will look at a problem so differently... and together come up with a better solution than either could by themselves. I really enjoy working with our corporate attorneys (except when they tell me I shouldnt do something ;))

What amazes me about lawyers is how they can construct sentences that nobody else can understand. For example... every contract I've looked at has the phrase "but for". I never realized that a single sentance could be constucted using both the words "but" and "for"... never mind using them sequentially. :)

/Jim


Ian thinks that it is funny that I was looking specifically for engineers to date when we met. I think that there is a natural compatibility based on primarily analytical personalities. I enjoy working with engineers.

The "but for" construction is the first class taught in law school. They call it torts, but they should just simplify matters and call it the "but for" class. That construction is always the beginning of a causal analysis. I think that they should also teach "lawyer" as a second language in law school.

Elaine

[burcs]

The "but for" construction is the first class taught in law school.

you had to take a class on what's a "but for"? i thought that would be medical school :)

[AZDVC]

I know they don't want to leave rooms sitting open without selling but don't they have to keep a certain amount of rooms open for DVC members who may book last minute?

DVC doesn't keep rooms open for us to book last minute at all that I can tell.
This is why we are all so worried about 7 and 11 month booking windows.
Patsy

[Gaston]

I am wondering how this will affect those using holding account points.

[StotheK]

I am wondering how this will affect those using holding account points.

It shouldn't make a difference at all since all of this stuff happens at the beginning of the 7/11 windows well before the 60 day window for holding points.

[Blue&Gold]

I was too busy laughing.

Dirk

I am a fraid that I may have unalterably from here on changed the use of the term "pixie dust" with certain members of the MO community. Mea maxima culpa.

[carolina_yankee]

It shouldn't make a difference at all since all of this stuff happens at the beginning of the 7/11 windows well before the 60 day window for holding points.

Hmm, just thinking before coffee. What if someone tries to book a +7 reservation that would extend a couple of days after the 60 day limit (or even use year, for that matter) wears off? I suspect they won't let you, but what if the computer system doesn't catch it?

Dirk

[JimP]

The "but for" construction is the first class taught in law school. They call it torts, but they should just simplify matters and call it the "but for" class. That construction is always the beginning of a causal analysis. I think that they should also teach "lawyer" as a second language in law school.



Elaine,

So what is a "tort"? Is is different than a "tart". How is this for a proper sentence using all 3 words:

Hey there you little tart, what are you using your butt for?

/Jim

[StotheK]

Hmm, just thinking before coffee. What if someone tries to book a +7 reservation that would extend a couple of days after the 60 day limit (or even use year, for that matter) wears off? I suspect they won't let you, but what if the computer system doesn't catch it?

Dirk

Interesting thought. I want to say holding points are already based on check-in so travel won't be able to start until within the 60 days out anyway. I had holding points, but I ended up transferring them to someone else, so I don't know exactly.

Still I don't think it'll matter too much since you pretty much have to be really flexible with holding points be the reservation 60 or 67 days away.

[sambay]

My mind is totally BLAH!!!! I am a newbie and have not even booked my first vacation yet and already I am worried! The dates that hubby and I choose have to be scheduled around the kids school and so does our room size - we have 4 children. So, if i am not able to get the room that I need when I need it what was the point in buying into the VC??????? I usually do not have a prob making a reservation in the past and getting a room, and now that i am in the VC I am going to have to worry about not being able to be accomodated. I will really not be happy if that is the case. B4 buying I just assumed that this was an elite club and that we would get priority and now I see that it is dog eat dog and if i don't call w/in my 11 month window then I might be SOL! What happens if hubby and I want to make a last minute trip down???? I really wish that DVC would lay all the cards on the table b4 they get you to sign the doted line.

Susan

[tammymacb]

Well, just got a call back from Member Satisfaction regarding the email I sent yesterday. Of course, the second I picked it up, AT&T dropped my call. When I called back I ( of course ) got voicemail.

[Blue&Gold]

Being a firm believer that if you are going to criticize, you should also give credit... This morning I received a call from DVC Executive Communications based on feedback sent "up the chain" from my sales Guide wrt the new booking policy and stays of greater than 7 days duration. The call was very professional, non-confrontational (really, I can do that) and helpful. Information definitely worth sharing:

---The official interpretation of the policy IS that days 8 and beyond can be booked day-by-day (if desired) beginning at "day 2," i.e. call Jan 1st for Dec 1-7th, call Jan 2nd for the 8th and so on.

---A "training deficiency" was acknowledged and all MS CMs will receive clarifying instructions on the above. The "reserve a week/wait a week" beast will be killed.

---Specific numbers got a little garbled, but 70ish % of all DVC stays are 7 days or less, and they acknowledge that in the effort to answer overwhelming member feedback in favor of eliminating day-by-day calling they were not prepared for the questions that would come from the members who comprise the other 30% of stays. We specifically discussed the fact that members who stay longer are likely to be by definition owners of greater numbers of points---and while not "deserving" of some special arrangement, might justifiably be unhappy if the rules were adjusted against their interests.

---The potential for abuse by "rolling cancellation" is understood, but at this point they feel it will not have a significant effect on overall resevation patterns. I imparted that "significance" is in the eye of the beholder... Bottom line, they will watch for complaints about availability and if they can ascribe those complaints to abuse they will probably handle it by flagging such patterns for investigation by the "Compliance" department, similar to the commercial renting business.

---Unabashedly, the CM admitted that the roll-out wasn't handled well, and acknowledged (without admitting fault) that many members had already called or emailed their concern with the lack of advance notice and the specific POS clause that pertains.

---I made my suggestion that they should "recruit" some number of members (different home resorts, point levels, length of ownership) to serve as an advisory panel. Call it a focus group or beta test group or whatever... Feedback from such a group might be surprisingly useful.

I mentioned that I spend a fair amount of time on the "Boards" and said that the change was being welcomed with mixed results because of the lack of MS CM understanding and the lack of prior warning. The CM mentioned that "they" read this and other forums and knew they had a problem pretty quickly. In the interest of "continuous improvement" they plan on seeing how the change works and reacting.

Of course, by posting this I almost certainly flag myself as "Blue&Gold" to DVC Management! So much for the anonymity of the Internet! In the interest of comity and diplomacy, I retract my previous intemperate remarks :goodnevil

[mountainjourno]

My mind is totally BLAH!!!! I am a newbie and have not even booked my first vacation yet and already I am worried! The dates that hubby and I choose have to be scheduled around the kids school and so does our room size - we have 4 children. So, if i am not able to get the room that I need when I need it what was the point in buying into the VC??????? I usually do not have a prob making a reservation in the past and getting a room, and now that i am in the VC I am going to have to worry about not being able to be accomodated. I will really not be happy if that is the case. B4 buying I just assumed that this was an elite club and that we would get priority and now I see that it is dog eat dog and if i don't call w/in my 11 month window then I might be SOL! What happens if hubby and I want to make a last minute trip down???? I really wish that DVC would lay all the cards on the table b4 they get you to sign the doted line.

Susan

You really only need to be concerned if you are booking in peak DVC times, and if you call within your 11-month window, you have an excellent chance of getting a two-bedroom at your home resort. Even if you call at 9 months you should have an excellent chance.

As for last minute - our guide stressed that there were no guarantees about last-minute bookings, and that the further in advance you book, the better your chances. You'll find that nowhere (no hotel) can guarantee a last minute reservation always being available because they aren't going to turn away solid bookings just in case someone decides to show up!

It's not dog-eat-dog, I suspect you're getting the wrong idea from this thread. I understand your concern, especially given you are new to DVC and are reading all this negativity. But most of us on this thread getting frustrated still love our memberships and have been adding on ridiculous numbers of points over the years - certainly not something we'd do if we didn't like our DVC.

Anyway - don't worry, you'll be find unless you want an extremely rare room (like a 2-bedroom Concierge at AKV)

[sambay]

Thanks! It just makes me worry though reading all this! We will more than likely be going in june and will need a 2 bdr., besides that I am not picky but would like occassionally to stay somewhere other than my home resort. I guess once I actually get to start booking I will feel more at ease.

Susan

[Blue&Gold]

My mind is totally BLAH!!!! I am a newbie and have not even booked my first vacation yet and already I am worried! The dates that hubby and I choose have to be scheduled around the kids school and so does our room size - we have 4 children. So, if i am not able to get the room that I need when I need it what was the point in buying into the VC??????? I usually do not have a prob making a reservation in the past and getting a room, and now that i am in the VC I am going to have to worry about not being able to be accomodated. I will really not be happy if that is the case. B4 buying I just assumed that this was an elite club and that we would get priority and now I see that it is dog eat dog and if i don't call w/in my 11 month window then I might be SOL! What happens if hubby and I want to make a last minute trip down???? I really wish that DVC would lay all the cards on the table b4 they get you to sign the doted line.

Susan

Susan---in all fairness, don't be worried until you see that you consistently don't get reservations you desire. We've been hashing out the impact of some very specific concerns on this thread that won't impact the broad totality of the DVC enterprise. Besides that, most everyone here is only commenting (even intensely) because they care and have a vested interest, either financial or emotional in DVC.

I will say that if someone sold you DVC implying that there was a priority of some kind, they were playing you falsely. We probably do think we're elite :yes:, but there are over 150,000 elite members, how much priority can one have? If you and the hubby want to make a last minute trip down, you will get whatever is available at that point, which in all likelihood will be wonderful accomodations, but you have to accept that there will be a sliding scale of "wonderful" depending on your desires and on room availability. If all you want is that special Boardwalk view from or the Concierge room at AKV, it'll be harder to get "last minute" than 7 or 11 months out.

[JimP]

Of course, by posting this I almost certainly flag myself as "Blue&Gold" to DVC Management! So much for the anonymity of the Internet! In the interest of comity and diplomacy, I retract my previous intemperate remarks :goodnevil

I don't even try to be anonymous.

/Jim

[tammymacb]

Still no call back from Stephanie in Member Satisfaction. So, I decided to call her back at the number she left on my voicemail. Well.....I'm a littlebitta dyslexic ( remember the not so nice woman I woke up at AKL because I thought it was Kristen's room ?)

Anyhoo, I called the number back and got a muffled "Hello?" I said "Hello?" a very annoyed voice said "You're calling the boardroom!" I said OOPs and hung up. I should have taken the opportunity to tell everyone in the boardroom that I thought their new system sucked, but I didn't do well off the cuff.

[StotheK]

Still no call back from Stephanie in Member Satisfaction. So, I decided to call her back at the number she left on my voicemail. Well.....I'm a littlebitta dyslexic ( remember the not so nice woman I woke up at AKL because I thought it was Kristen's room ?)

Anyhoo, I called the number back and got a muffled "Hello?" I said "Hello?" a very annoyed voice said "You're calling the boardroom!" I said OOPs and hung up. I should have taken the opportunity to tell everyone in the boardroom that I thought their new system sucked, but I didn't do well off the cuff.

You should check your outgoing call log for the number, you can probably sell it to the highest bidder :hahahaha:

[JimP]

Still no call back from Stephanie in Member Satisfaction. So, I decided to call her back at the number she left on my voicemail. Well.....I'm a littlebitta dyslexic ( remember the not so nice woman I woke up at AKL because I thought it was Kristen's room ?)

Anyhoo, I called the number back and got a muffled "Hello?" I said "Hello?" a very annoyed voice said "You're calling the boardroom!" I said OOPs and hung up. I should have taken the opportunity to tell everyone in the boardroom that I thought their new system sucked, but I didn't do well off the cuff.

Certainly a missed opportunity :)

/Jim

[glypnirsgirl]

Tammy you made me laugh so hard!!!

Elaine

[lenshanem]

This new policy hurts us. We go often for NYE and typically arrive the day before and stay thru the first week of January. Now where does this new policy leave us? Probably w/o a room for NYE. I'm VERY UPSET about this. Totally not fair. They need to make exceptions to this policy for holiday times.

[kimberh]

Still no call back from Stephanie in Member Satisfaction. So, I decided to call her back at the number she left on my voicemail. Well.....I'm a littlebitta dyslexic ( remember the not so nice woman I woke up at AKL because I thought it was Kristen's room ?)

Anyhoo, I called the number back and got a muffled "Hello?" I said "Hello?" a very annoyed voice said "You're calling the boardroom!" I said OOPs and hung up. I should have taken the opportunity to tell everyone in the boardroom that I thought their new system sucked, but I didn't do well off the cuff.

Oh Tammy, this is so cute! It's a shame you could not have said, " I am calling about my dissatisfaction with the new booking system." I would have hung up too. DVC needs the number posted on the Internet. That would be Justice!!!:rolleyes:

[DVC92]

Being a firm believer that if you are going to criticize, you should also give credit... This morning I received a call from DVC Executive Communications based on feedback sent "up the chain" from my sales Guide wrt the new booking policy and stays of greater than 7 days duration. The call was very professional, non-confrontational (really, I can do that) and helpful. Information definitely worth sharing:

---The official interpretation of the policy IS that days 8 and beyond can be booked day-by-day (if desired) beginning at "day 2," i.e. call Jan 1st for Dec 1-7th, call Jan 2nd for the 8th and so on.

---A "training deficiency" was acknowledged and all MS CMs will receive clarifying instructions on the above. The "reserve a week/wait a week" beast will be killed.

---Specific numbers got a little garbled, but 70ish % of all DVC stays are 7 days or less, and they acknowledge that in the effort to answer overwhelming member feedback in favor of eliminating day-by-day calling they were not prepared for the questions that would come from the members who comprise the other 30% of stays. We specifically discussed the fact that members who stay longer are likely to be by definition owners of greater numbers of points---and while not "deserving" of some special arrangement, might justifiably be unhappy if the rules were adjusted against their interests.

---The potential for abuse by "rolling cancellation" is understood, but at this point they feel it will not have a significant effect on overall resevation patterns. I imparted that "significance" is in the eye of the beholder... Bottom line, they will watch for complaints about availability and if they can ascribe those complaints to abuse they will probably handle it by flagging such patterns for investigation by the "Compliance" department, similar to the commercial renting business.



Now that we have the unofficial official word, why the 7 day limit? Theoretically, once the 7 day reservation is made, no one else should be able to book that particular room until the 8th day. Therefore, why can't one book at least 13 days at once if they allow you to add on beginning the following day?

[Ransom]

Just to add one more little data point...

I spoke with Joy of DVC's Communications department today. She was responding to an email I sent a few days ago regarding the recent changes.

In regards to booking, she confirmed that the official policy is that one may book the 8th through Nth days of a reservation DBD starting after the first call. So you call and get days 1-7, then call the next day for day 8, and so on. Good enough.

Regarding waitlists, she said that if you call and day 1 is unavailable, you may waitlist that day (and that day only), but you may then not book any additional days until the following day. So, you can't call, wait list day 1, then book days 2-7. You'll have to wait until the next day to try to book days two through (by then) eight.

She also said that one may waitlist individual days, but only if they are non-contiguous. So if days 2, 4, 7, and 8 were unavailable, you could have one waitlist for day 2, one waitlist for day 4, and one for days 7 & 8. You would not be allowed to waitlist days 7 and 8 separately.

Regarding my #1 concern -- that the new system is less equitable than the old one -- she said that they monitor bookings very closely, and listen very carefully to member feedback. So if this doesn't work, they'll make necessary changes. But they do not expect this to be a negative for the members. They expect this change to work out over time to the benefit of the membership. While it may be that members have to wait list when calling at 11 months for certain properties and times, they fully expect (based on prior patterns of member usage) that those wait lists will be filled.

So, I'm willing to wait and see how it goes. I'm certainly happier knowing that I'll be able to book days 8-14 without waiting a week. Hopefully it'll all work out!

[Mickeyfan0805]

Now that we have the unofficial official word, why the 7 day limit? Theoretically, once the 7 day reservation is made, no one else should be able to book that particular room until the 8th day. Therefore, why can't one book at least 13 days at once if they allow you to add on beginning the following day?

I have been pondering the question myself. While there has been some confusion on the issue, I am with you in that I have been unable to understand the limit. If someone can get this one explained it might further clear up some of the approach DVD is taking to all of this.

[tomandrobin]

Even though most of my trips are 5 days or less, I see this still being positive. But time will tell if this is good or not.

[Mickeyfan0805]

Even though most of my trips are 5 days or less, I see this still being positive. But time will tell if this is good or not.

While we have just joined, I don't see this as a problem for us, either. DW and I both have jobs that mean we can't travel during Christmas and Easter breaks, and most of our trips will be 1 and 2 bedroom trips in the summer for 7 nights. That said, I see why others are concerned and hope that DVD is correct in its appraisal that manipulation will be limited.

[lenshanem]

While it may be that members have to wait list when calling at 11 months for certain properties and times, they fully expect (based on prior patterns of member usage) that those wait lists will be filled.


I also spoke with someone today in response to an email I sent. I was also told I could waitlist for my NYE. (We typically come in a day before and stay thru first week of January.) I'm sorry, but this is not acceptable to me. And nobody can tell me this is a fair system. So for those that arrive the week before NYE they get to book NYE way before me. Being told I can waitlist when I call eleven months out at my home resort doesn't seem like a good solution to me to this new booking policy snag. I was also told I'd have other options now like AKV and California if I can't get in. That doesn't really match me getting my home resort of BCV for NYE night. Very nice call, but I wasn't really given a solution. At least I made my voice heard, but apparently we're out of luck. I'm now debating an add on once BLT comes around. Doesn't sound like having the home advantage will help us for NYE now...

[broganmc]

This new policy hurts us. We go often for NYE and typically arrive the day before and stay thru the first week of January. Now where does this new policy leave us? Probably w/o a room for NYE. I'm VERY UPSET about this. Totally not fair. They need to make exceptions to this policy for holiday times.

I'm wondering the same thing. I need one of those fully accessible HA rooms and usually book studios for NYE Dec 30-Jan 2. The HA rooms are in short supply overall due to regs. I use day-by-day booking for NYE so I'm used to the 9am speed-dialing marathon. Now I'm wondering if I'll be having issues next year.

I've also been planning a small add-on at Contemp, enough for 3 night stay in a studio once or twice a year. Given the size and proximity of that resort, I wonder if booking HA studios will be a fait accomplis according to the new system.

For those that don't know how it works first you need to confirm availability in a general booking category and then MS calls special needs to reserve a HA room. I've already been caught with lack of HA availability when the booking category was open. Had to go from a studio to a more expensive 1bedroom just to get the accommodations I needed. That was not pleasant.

[broganmc]

I also spoke with someone today in response to an email I sent. I was also told I could waitlist for my NYE. (We typically come in a day before and stay thru first week of January.) I'm sorry, but this is not acceptable to me. And nobody can tell me this is a fair system. So for those that arrive the week before NYE they get to book NYE way before me. Being told I can waitlist when I call eleven months out at my home resort doesn't seem like a good solution to me to this new booking policy snag. I was also told I'd have other options now like AKV and California if I can't get in. That doesn't really match me getting my home resort of BCV for NYE night. Very nice call, but I wasn't really given a solution. At least I made my voice heard, but apparently we're out of luck. I'm now debating an add on once BLT comes around. Doesn't sound like having the home advantage will help us for NYE now...

Oh that doesn't bode well for either. Wait lists are useless to disabled folks needing those HA rooms. They don't bother to check HA room availability when they process the wait list. I'd end up tying up my points for a room I cannot use.

[lenshanem]

broganmc, I'd be emailing DVC your concerns for sure. The more I think about it, the more unhappy I am right now...

[Ransom]

Oh that doesn't bode well for either. Wait lists are useless to disabled folks needing those HA rooms. They don't bother to check HA room availability when they process the wait list. I'd end up tying up my points for a room I cannot use.

That's insane. Yet another sign that Disney needs to scrap their entire IT department and their entire computer infrastructure and start over. :sosad:

[Ransom]

I also spoke with someone today in response to an email I sent. I was also told I could waitlist for my NYE. (We typically come in a day before and stay thru first week of January.) I'm sorry, but this is not acceptable to me. And nobody can tell me this is a fair system. So for those that arrive the week before NYE they get to book NYE way before me. Being told I can waitlist when I call eleven months out at my home resort doesn't seem like a good solution to me to this new booking policy snag. I was also told I'd have other options now like AKV and California if I can't get in. That doesn't really match me getting my home resort of BCV for NYE night. Very nice call, but I wasn't really given a solution. At least I made my voice heard, but apparently we're out of luck. I'm now debating an add on once BLT comes around. Doesn't sound like having the home advantage will help us for NYE now...

Don't forget that you can do the rolling/walking reservations thing. They've specifically said that doing so is perfectly fine. So feel free to start booking well before Christmas, then walk your reservation to where you need it. Of course that'll block other members from getting those dates you don't actually need, but they can just start a little early, too. And so on and so on. Pretty soon, it'll make more sense to book at 10 months, once the 11 monthers have "walked" their reservations out of your way. ;)

[Deb & Bill]

My take on this mess:

DVC will change to a week ownership. I'll take week 22 or 24. I'm trying for week 23 at another timeshare right now.

Or:

They will go back to the lottery system for Christmas/New Years like in the past.

Or:

They will realize what a big mistake they have made trying to simplify the process for us and go back to the old method.

Or:

They won't allow any stay less than 7 nights or more than 7 nights (floating weeks).

Or:

I'll sell the rest of my points and go elsewhere.

Or:

Jim Lewis will be promoted to VP of theme parks

Or:

Any combination of the above.

[Mickeyfan0805]

My take on this mess:

DVC will change to a week ownership. I'll take week 22 or 24. I'm trying for week 23 at another timeshare right now.

Or:

They will go back to the lottery system for Christmas/New Years like in the past.

Or:

They will realize what a big mistake they have made trying to simplify the process for us and go back to the old method.

Or:

They won't allow any stay less than 7 nights or more than 7 nights (floating weeks).

Or:

I'll sell the rest of my points and go elsewhere.

Or:

Jim Lewis will be promoted to VP of theme parks

Or:

Any combination of the above.

OK, I'll have to defer to some of the DVC vets and lawyers here, but I would question whether DVC could really transition to a traditional week-based timeshare system. It would seem to be such a drastic change from the product that was sold that it would not be consistent with the agreements we have signed. Being a newbie and not a lawyer, however, I would wonder what others think. For reasons specific to our lives, I would NEVER buy a week-based share and would deeply challenge the ability for the DC to make such a change.

[broganmc]

broganmc, I'd be emailing DVC your concerns for sure. The more I think about it, the more unhappy I am right now...

I just got off the phone with a MS CM and pretty much confirmed the issues brought up in my post. But having said all that, it hasn't directly effected me... yet.

I was told they are supposed to flag the wait lists with a need to check special needs, but that never happened in the past. Hence I don't trust wait lists.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens. If it does become an issue booking HA rooms I can see DVC getting a major PR backlash. Inequal access and all that.

I'm not lighting the fuse yet but let's just say I'm checking my ammo. My planned BLT add-on may become the first casualty.

[broganmc]

OK, I'll have to defer to some of the DVC vets and lawyers here, but I would question whether DVC could really transition to a traditional week-based timeshare system. It would seem to be such a drastic change from the product that was sold that it would not be consistent with the agreements we have signed. Being a newbie and not a lawyer, however, I would wonder what others think. For reasons specific to our lives, I would NEVER buy a week-based share and would deeply challenge the ability for the DC to make such a change.

I didn't think they could do that as it is a change to the POS. Why bother having nightly point costs if you're only allowing weekly ressies?

More than likely I expect DVC and members really won't be seeing a problem with the new system until next January. We're not really in the windows to book holiday weekends until then. Possibly we'll see some trouble when the Summer '09 bookings open, especially July 4th since it's a Saturday next year.

[Mickeyfan0805]

I didn't think they could do that as it is a change to the POS. Why bother having nightly point costs if you're only allowing weekly ressies?

More than likely I expect DVC and members really won't be seeing a problem with the new system until next January. We're not really in the windows to book holiday weekends until then. Possibly we'll see some trouble when the Summer '09 bookings open, especially July 4th since it's a Saturday next year.

Although I've not seen a POS (wish i had one, but just bought resale and never received one), those have been my thoughts exactly.

[greenban]

My take on this mess:

DVC will change to a week ownership. I'll take week 22 or 24. I'm trying for week 23 at another timeshare right now.

Not gonna happen

Or:

They will go back to the lottery system for Christmas/New Years like in the past.

Possible, maybe fairest of all solutions!

Or:

They will realize what a big mistake they have made trying to simplify the process for us and go back to the old method.

Very Possible, especially if unhappy Owners keep up the pressure and cancel add-ons

Or:

They won't allow any stay less than 7 nights or more than 7 nights (floating weeks).

Not gonna happen

Or:

I'll sell the rest of my points and go elsewhere.

Say it ain't so!!!!

Or:

Jim Lewis will be promoted to VP of theme parks

There won't be a Jim Lewis if DVC sa