CA not up to par?

[NYDVC]

following from another site:

In the June 17th update, MiceAge.com columnist Al Lutz claims discusses recent Disney Vacation Club sales data leaked to him by sources, claiming disappointing sales both in Lake Buena Vista and Anaheim.

According to Lutz, Florida sales are "softening" while California numbers are even worse, and may be prompting Disney to re-examine its long terms plans for Disneyland-based Vacation Club units:

The DVC units planned for the Grand are still on track, and there is enough demand from DVC owners back East to likely fill the small collection of units when they open in 2010. But the soft sales figures are making TDA take a second look at their long term plans for hotel and lodging construction in Anaheim.
Even attempts to offer deep discounts to Disneyland Cast Members has not helped boost sales.

It is worth noting that the DVC's Disneyland sales center has been without any model rooms for several months now. Models units for Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort were originally constructed on-site so that sales Guides could give guests a first-hand look at DVC accommodations. However the Saratoga Springs models were effectively closed back in late-2007 as the space was needed to construct new models for DVC's forthcoming Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Resort.

At this time it is unknown when the new models may open to the public or when Grand Californian sales will begin. The DVC villas are scheduled to open some time in late 2009.

Source: MiceAge.com



So what does this mean overall? Will if help keep prices lower or reasonable for the Sandwich?

[carolina_yankee]

I read that yesterday, and thought that Al Lutz is probably just as reliable as Kevin Yee - that is, not much. His perception of the numbers don't seem to jibe with what others have posted about DVC. SSR sold out - AKV selling very well, and so forth.

And what does "the California number are even worse" mean? DVC doesn't have a California product on sale.

Wasn't it GBlast or Tony who posted that BLT will be delayed a bit precisely because DVC doesn't want to up this years sales figures too much, which would make next year's goals all that much harder to meet?

I can't possibly imagine Disney said, "Hey, we need to up our sales, so lets offer discounts to the underpaid and hourly Disneyland employees to get us through a slump!"

Remember, Al Lutz is the one who generally feels Disney is about to go belly-up because the cast member cafeteria isn't well managed.

Dirk

[Daitcher]

I read that yesterday, and thought that Al Lutz is probably just as reliable as Kevin Yee - that is, not much. His perception of the numbers don't seem to jibe with what others have posted about DVC. SSR sold out - AKV selling very well, and so forth.

And what does "the California number are even worse" mean? DVC doesn't have a California product on sale.

Wasn't it GBlast or Tony who posted that BLT will be delayed a bit precisely because DVC doesn't want to up this years sales figures too much, which would make next year's goals all that much harder to meet?

I can't possibly imagine Disney said, "Hey, we need to up our sales, so lets offer discounts to the underpaid and hourly Disneyland employees to get us through a slump!"

Remember, Al Lutz is the one who generally feels Disney is about to go belly-up because the cast member cafeteria isn't well managed.

Dirk



ITA. That article doesn't make sense. California isn't even selling yet so how are sales dissapointing?

These type of writers tend to take one truthful thing and add a bunch of other stuff with it. I'd say that the only accurate thing in that article is that AKV sales have a been a tad dissapointing. Other than that hte rest is a pure fabrication, IMO.


DAVE

[StotheK]

All I gotta say is I had some seriously bad flashbacks from my old alt.disney.disneyland days

Anyway, for those of you young whippersnappers who have no idea what I'm talking about:

http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=alweho

[Blue&Gold]

Sales should be dissappointing... They have nothing to sell. No product, no sale. Don't think you need a marketing degree to figure that one out.

[administrator]

So, this is "news"?

To be honest, around here, that information would be considered, at best, specious speculation.

However, if it gets you website hits, I guess that's all that matters.

[bavaria]

In my sunny, optimistic fashion ;) I took it to read that sales by the DVC guides in CA for east coast product were disappointing. I may be wrong, and please forgive the ESL poster if that is the case.

I was quite surprised at the difference in tone that I experienced at the CA sales centre, and have read a few people suggesting that they had a similar experience not in line with the DVC low-pressure sales tactic used in FL.

Having visited CA even more times than WDW, the biggest difference is that there are a number of good quality hotel products within walking distance of DL/DCA. Until DGC, the product of those hotels outshone the PP and DLH product, and many chose to stay 'offsite' for less money and better products. (I remember the sharp decline in product when Disney purchased PP from Pan Pacific, and I was a regular guest under both flags for quite some time)

Disney has done a lot to improve their hotel product in CA in recent years, but there is still enough competition nearby to challenge them. Factor in the shorter average stay for a DL/DCA visit, and I don't think that the timeshare market is quite as appealing as at WDW.

I DO think that GCV will sell out very very quickly however.

[HauntedPirate]

Al may be off-base here, but overall he's more on than off IMHO. I'd read him before some others..... *coughjimhillhackhackhackcough*.... He does go a little off the deep end with the cafeteria talk, but the HR problems at Disneyland are well known.

I suspect the point he was trying to get across was that interest they've seen in the CA DVC is soft. After all, Disneyland is awash in AP's and I don't think Disneyland/DCA attracts the DVC-type crowd like WDW does. They could easily sell out GCV, I suppose, what do I know? ;) Heck, until Lasseter got involved, they could barely get 15,000 in the gates at DCA. I haven't read what their numbers are lately, but the summer season is in full swing so we'll have to see what they turn out like this year versus years past.

[Carol]

I agree with bavaria. Lutz was talking about DVC Sales out of the CA center.

I'm sure Disney also keeps track of the sales made out of the Dreams store in Chicago and equally sure that Lurz knows the GCVs are not yet being sold, LOL.

[StotheK]

Ignoring the sensationalistic slant of the source in question, it seems to me that it would only logical that DVC sales in CA wouldn't be that great. I mean how many people on the left coast really hit WDW on a frequent basis?

I'm sure GCV will sell out quickly since it will be pretty small. But unless it's changed, a good portion of Disneyland's attendance comes from locals using annual passes, so I don't know how many of them would feel the need to stay buy into DVC.

I just think there's a different sort of dynamic at work out west than there is on the WDW side of the country (and I believe the member map in the last Disney Files would illustrate that.)

[bavaria]

I would tend to agree about who would buy in DL right now.

I think that DVC expected CA, OR, WA, AZ, NV and BC visitors would buy while onsite, but most of those visit for 3-5 days at most, or encorporate DL/DCA into a longer So CA trip, moving out of the Anaheim area to SAN or other places in the state. If they do buy FL DVC product, they can't use it in CA now, and most likely won't be able to use it for GCV in future

Domestic coast to coast fares may soon average $500-700, so a CA owner buying FL DVC will become significantly more costly in terms of travel expense over the coming year.

[StotheK]

That is a very valid point, I lived in AZ most of my life, and we did a lot of CA trips, but very few for an entire week, even those would combine other areas like Vegas or something. Most people I knew, co-workers, friends and stuff usually if they went it would be for a few days, or if they did a week it'd be split between Anaheim/LA and San Diego. Plus, that part of the country is a little more geographically spread out than the SouthEast and East Coast, so it would be a pretty considerable drive to get to Southern Cal from say Colorado or Utah.

[administrator]

I'm sure Disney also keeps track of the sales made out of the Dreams store in Chicago and equally sure that Lurz knows the GCVs are not yet being sold, LOL.

I've been told that sales at the Chicago store are doing very well, and haven't been affected by the economic downswing.

[carolina_yankee]

I'd say that the only accurate thing in that article is that AKV sales have a been a tad dissapointing. Other than that hte rest is a pure fabrication, IMO.
DAVE
Isn't Jambo House sold out, and Kidani Village the only points on offer? I may be wrong here. However, if this is even somewhat true, then are they disappointing because Disney set the mark too high, or the product just isn't as good as thought? I would lean towards the former, but I'm an AKL/V fan. . . .

(Parks, I don't need no stinkin' parks!)

In my sunny, optimistic fashion ;) I took it to read that sales by the DVC guides in CA for east coast product were disappointing. I may be wrong, and please forgive the ESL poster if that is the case.

Rather, it might be because Al is an EPW poster (English is his Primary Written language). You know, American education and all that. ;) Jim Hill has the same problem.

If he is referring to sales through the California sales center, then I could follow the line of argument made by you and others. We need Leftcoaster to chime back in.

In fact, Leftcoaster mentioned that that DVC expects GCV might not even make it general public sales given it's so small. Current owners might snap up all availability.

As for hotel stays in the area - I really won't stay in Disney properties in Anaheim unless I have extra points to use. I'm perfectly happy with HoJo or Candy Cane Inn for a good 5 night Disney stay. Of course, I tend to save my relaxation for a cozy B&B in Monterey . . .

Dirk

[NYDVC]

As for hotel stays in the area - I really won't stay in Disney properties in Anaheim unless I have extra points to use. I'm perfectly happy with HoJo or Candy Cane Inn for a good 5 night Disney stay. Of course, I tend to save my relaxation for a cozy B&B in Monterey . . .

Dirk

Interesting thought. We were thinking DL next year and was thinking of putting the money up for GCA room. How much can you save off property? Being on the monrail much of a advantage yes/no? How good are the views at the off site properties? We were even thinking the dinning plan but it looked verystrange with the vouchers and all. like all we were getting was a dollar credit? any thoughts there?

sorry I know these are a lot of questions? :rolleyes:

[Leftcoaster]

In my sunny, optimistic fashion ;) I took it to read that sales by the DVC guides in CA for east coast product were disappointing. I may be wrong, and please forgive the ESL poster if that is the case.

I was quite surprised at the difference in tone that I experienced at the CA sales centre, and have read a few people suggesting that they had a similar experience not in line with the DVC low-pressure sales tactic used in FL.



I DO think that GCV will sell out very very quickly however.

This is exactly my understanding and experience. From what I had heard, the sales numbers for DVc product here in California has been dropping. We've got a number of reasons for this. First, a bad economy. Second, why buy something in Florida when you see something in California being built. Third, I think people are probably becoming a little more educated and realizing that using DVC point in California and primarily as a trade out are not a good value.

I too took a tour here and saw a huge difference between California and Florida in the presentation. The tour out here in California was all based on how you could trade out your points for non DVC product. I had a really tough time biting my tongue and playing a little ignorant during the presentation.

While waiting for my tour, someone did walk into the preview center. The guest had questions about GCV and didn't want to talk about Florida. He immediately left because they (legally) couldn't give him any real information. I would not be surprised at all if this were a regular event.

If he is referring to sales through the California sales center, then I could follow the line of argument made by you and others. We need Leftcoaster to chime back in.

In fact, Leftcoaster mentioned that that DVC expects GCV might not even make it general public sales given it's so small. Current owners might snap up all availability.



I'm chiming. I'm chiming.

I still expect that GCV will not make it to general public sales. However........ If things continue to keep getting worse, I can see that change. If it does make it to general public sales, it will still sell out quickly. Remember at 142 rooms, VWL is the smallest DVC at WDW. GCV will only be 50 rooms.

[carolina_yankee]

Interesting thought. We were thinking DL next year and was thinking of putting the money up for GCA room. How much can you save off property? Being on the monrail much of a advantage yes/no? How good are the views at the off site properties? We were even thinking the dinning plan but it looked verystrange with the vouchers and all. like all we were getting was a dollar credit? any thoughts there?

sorry I know these are a lot of questions? :rolleyes:

I don't want to sidetrack the conversation (even if it is your thread!), but to say quickly - HoJo can be around $100 a night with large rooms and free internet. Sometimes better with deals from MouseSavers. You can get guaranteed Disney view, which gives you a nice view of the Matterhorn and upper level fireworks. It's a half mile from door to turnstile. Honestly, maybe 5 minutes longer walk than from Disneyland Hotel. They have a couple of pools and nice grounds, but it's not 'resort' calibre. Still - very suitable for mostly park touring.

Candy Cane Inn is smaller distance, maybe a little more upscale in appearance - no views to speak of, but a nice boutique feel. Same walk as HoJo. Similar price. Includes nice continental breakfast - something that's hard to find at Disneyland Hotel. I'd be more inclined to 'relax' at Candy Cane than at HoJo, but then I'm more of a park commando at Disneyland, anyway, and save relaxation for elsewhere on my trip.

We never used monorail at open or close (lines) just during mid-day. Quite frankly, given their issues with getting the new Mark VII trains online, I'm not sure the monorail system at DL is going to be all that convenient for several months.

If you want to post more questions, I'd suggest starting a Disneyland planning thread in the trip planning forum.

Dirk

[pycees312]

I read that yesterday, and thought that Al Lutz is probably just as reliable as Kevin Yee - that is, not much. His perception of the numbers don't seem to jibe with what others have posted about DVC. SSR sold out - AKV selling very well, and so forth.

And what does "the California number are even worse" mean? DVC doesn't have a California product on sale.


Dirk

I think he means customers actually purchasing in Disneyland. I can say when i went to the getaway days not to many folks actually bought in the end and or upgraded. And disney has been giving away some pretty hefy gifts for going to the presentioations, so i can see most people only going to get the 100.00 gift card. And i think Disney needs to rethink the" we don't have to approach the customer they will come to us approach" in California. I never seen anyone talking to rep when i go there at any of the kiosk. they are always empty as is the sales office. When we went to Disneyworld it was very different. We were able to have conversation with other owners or potential buyers who were in the lobby. We even stopped at a kiosk in the world and talked to a family about our experience when we were there.

PS i think the GCV will be very expensive. Teh guide we spoke to during the getaway days really eluded that i needed to start saving for my down payment now.