BLT and THV sale info - Update (#60) 6/27

[gblast123]

Some of the interesting information coming out regarding BLT. (Note, these are officially rumors... but I endevor to only give information that is fairly accurate.)

1) BLT's initial sale date will probably be delayed from July 1. (see update, below)
2) SSR has only a small amount of 1 UY left and that should be gone within a week. (see update, below)
3) AKV only has waiting list for Jambo UY, ie if someone cancels or ROFR.
4) Hawaii has started some work, but looking at est. 3 more years to open.
5) THV will probably not be part of SSR but the plans are not solid yet.

2, 3 and 4 don't require much explanation.

Reason for #1)

DVC's fiscal year ends in September. Because DVC is a "numbers" game, and they want to make their financial numbers look good from year to year, they have to show the bean counters that DVC is doing better every year.

This year has been quite good for DVC and they are already above the corporate financial "quota" for the fiscal year. This is one of the reasons that the "incentives" have dried up.... no need to push up numbers that are high already.

The CM in DVC-sales are worried now, since there is little or no inventory to sell, and if they are not selling BLT July 1, there really is nothing to sell except Kidani which can't be used until May '09. This is a tough sell....

Corporate DVC .... well they are as concerned about their CM's livelihood as they are concerned about DVC members... not much so they are not about to rush BLT sales and then have to show bigger numbers the following year. It is better for them to hold back a little now and then show a big increase after September. If (and it is a mighty big if) there are going to be any BLT incentives, they will be after September.

Currently, BLT will be delayed from the July 1 date... and the new date for sales are still up in the air ... remember, they have not officially announced BLT sales so if it is delayed, it isn't officially delayed!! The new date is yet to be determined.:smoke2:

5) The current thinking of DVC is that SSR is sold out so there is no reason to really change it. They have their money and the people who bought SSR and are now regretting it can't do anything about it (ie - those SSR owners who have buyers regret, not all SSR owners. Many SSR owners like me are quite happy with their purchase). Basically, DVC's attitude toward the SSR DVC owners is AMF ("Adios My Friends".... actually means something else, but I am toneing things down). They have no incentive to give anything more to the SSR owners, so they won't.

The current plans for THV are not set yet, but it doesn't maximize DVC's profits to simply add it to SSR as Grand Villas' type of rooms. Rather, it makes sense for them to wait until BLT sales to go forward, this will raise the DVC sales "floor" and later, sell SSR THV as an SSR phase IV or some such. They will have a much higher price point and the points per night will be .... astronomic is the only way to describe it. They are proposals to make it a separate resort altogether, with its own 11 month booking window also, but again, these are only planning discussions and everything is up in the air about this!!

The hotel group and DVC group do not see eye to eye as to the future disposition of THV, although all agree that it will be very profitable, no matter which way it goes.

I will update this post as the news develops.

Update 6/26/08 :

1) BLT definately delayed, possibly to September/October. Apparently the DVC sales quota is on track and AKV is still selling well, even if it is for Kidani. CM in sales are not too happy about this, but they don't really have a say in it.

2) SSR's are basically sold out for new inventory. With rare exceptions, DVC is only selling AKV. There is some "add on" inventory for SSR.

Stay tuned.

David

[Daitcher]

Thanks for the info David.

I guess my SSR shirt is still on hold for now.



DAVE

[RweTHEREyet]

Excuse me, but who are you to say that all people that bought SSR are now regretting it? That is really a pretty broad assumption.

[gblast123]

Excuse me, but who are you to say that all people that bought SSR are now regretting it? That is really a pretty broad assumption.

You mis- read my post and reading something into it that is not there. (ie you are assuming the wrong thing).

My post says "They have their money and the people who bought SSR and are now regretting it". It doesn't say everyone who bought regrets it.

It is specific to those people "who bought AND are now regretting it". ie, that portion of the SSR population who bought the points that feel that they have made a mistake.

I have edited the post to clarify that point.

David

[gblast123]

Thanks for the info David.

I guess my SSR shirt is still on hold for now.



DAVE


Not quite. SSR will be sold out by July and BLT will be sold in July... but probably not July 1.

David

[RweTHEREyet]

You mis- read my post and reading something into it that is not there. (ie you are assuming the wrong thing).

My post says "They have their money and the people who bought SSR and are now regretting it". It doesn't say everyone who bought regrets it.

It is specific to those people "who bought AND are now regretting it". ie, that portion of the SSR population who bought the points that feel that they have made a mistake.

I have edited the post to clarify that point.

David

Sorry, if I misunderstood. I just know that I for one, do not regret my SSR purchase. That being said, OKW is still my favorite resort. I just didn't want someone speaking for me.

If people bought SSR and made a mistake, don't you think it is because they didn't do their research? I am sure that there are lots of people that for them, SSR is the perfect resort.

[Blue&Gold]

It is specific to those people "who bought AND are now regretting it". ie, that portion of the SSR population who bought the points that feel that they have made a mistake.

I have edited the post to clarify that point.

David

I think every resort has some amount of buyers who suffer from "regret" (for all sorts of reasons).

Unfortunately for my familial bottom line, our only regret so far is to not have bought in sooner, and bigger.

I'd really like to see THV as part of SSR or out on its' own, just to add the option of that kind of vacation to the mix. We certainly aren't "parked out," but I could see that happening a few years down the line. THV could offer a more secluded, relaxed kind of stay to the mix.

BLT? Well, I am swinging away from paying the premium they seem to be aiming at pulling in. Could be dicey for DVC, or the building could be "recession/gas price-proof." I'm thinking more and more about grabbing some lower-point resales at other resorts as folks try to clear their decks for the BLT frenzy.

[Daitcher]

Not quite. SSR will be sold out by July and BLT will be sold in July... but probably not July 1.

David



Oh, the shirt is all planned out, just on hold.:)


DAVE

[gblast123]

.......

If people bought SSR and made a mistake, don't you think it is because they didn't do their research? I am sure that there are lots of people that for them, SSR is the perfect resort.

Actually, a lot of people were mis-led by DVC and their sales staff, albeit unintentionally.

The pitch I got when I went in for SSR was that the resort didn't matter so much as there was always availability at BCV or BWV within the 7 month window.... which was true before they decided to double the size of SSR...

Even after SSR got huge, 7 month window still had availability except for peak times... but then the "incentive points" bull went on a rampage into the 7 month china shop... so the 7 month window is virtually a thing of the past... at least for about another 12-16 months.

Why that long? People who got incentive points used those to book their vacations and banked their regular points.... so now there is a huge "banked point" gorilla waiting to sit on the 7 month window after about Dec of this year. Since a lot of SSR points were sold.... again, 7 month window evaporation syndrome.

Personally, I like the layout of SSR and I think the bus service is the best from there to all the parks. I don't understand why people are so down on it. But there is one miscalcuation on DVC's part, they are charging more for SSR on pp/night basis than OKW or BWV standard, in general. This was a huge mistake. SSR is newer than OKW so there should be some premium but I think that if SSR had a slightly lower pp/night rate, people would be a lot happier.

David

[RweTHEREyet]

And I guess that could be true of first-time buyers. Since SSR was my third contract, I basically knew exactly what and where I was purchasing. It didn't bother me that SSR grew in size either. I really do like staying there, and have never felt like "it was the only thing available" when I called to book my ressie.

I was really hoping that THV would be a part of SSR though, so it will be itneresting to see what happens there.

[Daitcher]

Actually, a lot of people were mis-led by DVC and their sales staff, albeit unintentionally.

The pitch I got when I went in for SSR was that the resort didn't matter so much as there was always availability at BCV or BWV within the 7 month window.... which was true before they decided to double the size of SSR...

Even after SSR got huge, 7 month window still had availability except for peak times... but then the "incentive points" bull went on a rampage into the 7 month china shop... so the 7 month window is virtually a thing of the past... at least for about another 12-16 months.

Why that long? People who got incentive points used those to book their vacations and banked their regular points.... so now there is a huge "banked point" gorilla waiting to sit on the 7 month window after about Dec of this year. Since a lot of SSR points were sold.... again, 7 month window evaporation syndrome.

Personally, I like the layout of SSR and I think the bus service is the best from there to all the parks. I don't understand why people are so down on it. But there is one miscalcuation on DVC's part, they are charging more for SSR on pp/night basis than OKW or BWV standard, in general. This was a huge mistake. SSR is newer than OKW so there should be some premium but I think that if SSR had a slightly lower pp/night rate, people would be a lot happier.

David



Every word of this is spot on.


DAVE

[BWV Dreamin]

Actually, a lot of people were mis-led by DVC and their sales staff, albeit unintentionally.

The pitch I got when I went in for SSR was that the resort didn't matter so much as there was always availability at BCV or BWV within the 7 month window.... which was true before they decided to double the size of SSR...

.
But there is one miscalcuation on DVC's part, they are charging more for SSR on pp/night basis than OKW or BWV standard, in general. This was a huge mistake. David

David I absolutely agree with these points. Our SSR sales pitch was just as you stated...really pushed the 7 mos. availbility at other resorts, and really negated the importance of UY. I, fortunately, did not buy into this sales pitch.

I also really want to ressie at SSR, particularly Grandstand. I have a hard time justifying the additional points to stay there vs. BWV and not even be guaranteed a location. So yes, your point of miscalculation is right on. :iagree:

[Daddio]

Personally, I like the layout of SSR and I think the bus service is the best from there to all the parks. I don't understand why people are so down on it.
David

Your information has been well received. Keep it coming.

As for the quote above, please don't promote SSR. It is a terrible resort and no one should stay there. I am already getting frustrated with it starting to get harder to get in there. KEEP AWAY!

Just because people say the the bus service is great, that's no reason to want to stay there. WHO WANTS GOOD BUS SERVICE??

Just because people say there are 4 fabulous pools, that's not a good enough reason to stay there. IT'S WAY TOO BIG.

Just because people love the view of Downtown Disney and enjoy the few minutes it takes to walk over there at night is certainly NO REASON to stay at SSR.

So what if the food court and restaurant is fantastic. STAY AWAY PEOPLE. You won' like it.

The only thing I like about it is it's close proximity to all the outside restaurants, outlets, stores, pharmacies etc. But that's no reson for everyone else to love it, so KEEP OFF!!

David

(and if you happen to hear me say "it is my favorite resort" in a conversation, well, I am just lying)

[administrator]

I was told HI isn't scheduled to open until 2011.

[StotheK]

First let me say I don't hate SSR :) While I'd like to stay at other resorts in addition, as long as I have a place to call home, I'm good.

Now that being said, I'll reaffirm what others have said already. Disney didn't exactly spend a lot of time selling the 4 pools, bus service etc when we bought in. They hit on stuff like the 7 month window, II trades, concierge collection. Even when AKV came online and starting to have incentives, they downplayed the 7 month window pointing more towards the point cost with incentives being better and lower MFs (you can always stay elsewhere.)

As far as researching goes... well this board has over 8k members and the DIS has a boat load too. But that's still a small fraction as compared to the actual number of DVC owners. Which means not everyone uses these boards to make decisions. Plus a lot of people buy onsite during a visit, sure it's an impulse buy and probably not the best idea, but it is what it is :)

That's the reason we bought originally. I had been on the fence forever, but my wife hurt her ankle and opted to just stay in our room for the day and rest. Well you know what she did? She watched that DVC video on TV over and over again :hypnotict

[gblast123]

I was told HI isn't scheduled to open until 2011.

Sorry, typo on that. I will correct. It should say 3 years... progress on it is not moving as fast as originally expected. I will correct the post.

David

[gblast123]

And I guess that could be true of first-time buyers. Since SSR was my third contract, I basically knew exactly what and where I was purchasing. It didn't bother me that SSR grew in size either. I really do like staying there, and have never felt like "it was the only thing available" when I called to book my ressie.

I was really hoping that THV would be a part of SSR though, so it will be itneresting to see what happens there.


I am not saying that it will or will not be made "part of SSR".

The problem is that there were several people who had previously posted here who seemed to think that because some people were unhappy with SSR, DVC would do something to "make up for it". DVC does not give refunds, nor do will they do anything because DVC members are not completely satisfied.

DVC is like other timeshares in that respect... once the sale goes through, that is that, you own it, period, end of discussion!!!

THV will be utilized to maximize DVC/Disney profits... nothing more, nothing less!!! Like I love to say, "Disney is a FOR PROFIT organization".

If they see THV as a useful and profitable adjunct to SSR (ie, if SSR can be used to make THV more profitable), it will happen. DVC will not take a very profitable item and make it less profitable out of a sense of guilt that SSR is not what some members consider ideal. The fact that some SSR resales are being offered for $72-74 per point (or in that range), doesn't bother DVC one bit!!!

Currently THV is in close proximity to SSR so there is a natural connection... if Disney can save money by using SSR for check-in, for use of the pool, etc., then those are the type of things that they will consider in their final decision.

However, if THV can deliver a better profit by becoming a "ultra Luxury" getaway... well that is what will happen.

The only compelling reason to make THV part of DVC is if they perceive that it will make future DVC sales stronger at future DVC resorts!!

I think that I have spoken before about corporate "turf wars"... in THV case, the Hotel unit and the DVC unit both want it... and there will be tug of war of sorts for awhile for THV.... That is one of the reasons you don't see any anouncements, etc.

Anyway... THV will be awhile before it becomes a reality so just hang loose everyone.

David

[Daitcher]

The fact that some SSR resales are being offered for $72-74 per point (or in that range), doesn't bother DVC one bit!!! David



Ahhh, but it does say something about the appeal of SSR. It says that it isn't special in any way and that the booking priority isn't necessary. It also says that SSR was possibly over priced to begin with from a price per point standpoint as well as a per night point allotment. Things will only get worse, IMO.

As for the rest of your post, ITA. DVC doesn't owe the membership anything. They sold, we bought, end of story. They lived up to their end. BUT it would benefit all if SSR was made more appealing to the masses. Sure many LOVE the place, you included, but that isn't the point. SSR is the largest resort by far yet is the most polarizing resort we've seen to date. This isn't a good thing for balance. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen where people have stated that if SSR is all they can get they would NOT go to WDW. That's a problem. Add to that the numerous folks who bought there to stay elsewhere (with a bump from DVC guides) and it adds to the problem.

This thread is a nice wish list. nothing more. I doubt anything more will be done. Thery want nothing more than to be done with SSR a resort they billed as the FLAGSHIP Resort of DVC.


DAVE

[AFMom]

DVC is like other timeshares in that respect... once the sale goes through, that is that, you own it, period, end of discussion!!!



David

I don't know - OKW was opened and sold out a long time before we got the pool slide.......

[MouseMagic]

I've been thinking about SSR quite a bit... partially because you can get a decent deal on resale. I know I want BLT for pretty emotional/personal reasons. The darn toaster owns a lot of my best childhood memories.

Onto SSR... I say all the following NOT owning DVC (yet!) but it would seem to me that SSR may eventually have destination improvements to it just to handle cash guests. If the property isn't booking well (but it does seem that it is booked from the various posts etc) then Disney is going to want to capitalize on those empty rooms... in a way if a paid DVC memeber isn't in them and then they can cash book it....it amounts to double dipping on the room.

To do that SSR is going to have to live up to other Disney resorts (NOT SAYING it doesn't... I have never even visited SSR!). To have it live up to what guests are expecting at the other resorts... well I'd be surprised if the resort isn't given some sort of additional feature to DRIVE cash guests to it.

What it will be.... not a clue. A small water park has been mentioned... plausible. Perhaps in the theme of the resort... more luxury spa features....

Obviously I don't have a clue but I would doubt that Disney would miss a chance to continue to maximize the development and find a way to get additional $$ returns.

Best,
Dora

[Carol]

I don't know - OKW was opened and sold out a long time before we got the pool slide.......I think this actually proves the point (that once they're sold, Disney doesn't do anything for the DVC resorts unless it's to Disney's benefit.

Some history (some days it's good to be old, LOL) on the slide -

Several years ago, there was a survey of selected OKW owners (not all owners got the survey). One of the questions asked about a slide for the main pool. The majority said no. There was no "new" survey done before the slide was built several years later.

Disney built the slide to increase OKW's appeal to cash guests. Disney paid for the slide, not OKW owners. OKW members are paying for the ongoing operating costs of the slide (essentially the lifeguards) out of their annual dues.

[administrator]

I am not saying that it will or will not be made "part of SSR".

The problem is that there were several people who had previously posted here who seemed to think that because some people were unhappy with SSR, DVC would do something to "make up for it". DVC does not give refunds, nor do will they do anything because DVC members are not completely satisfied.

DVC is like other timeshares in that respect... once the sale goes through, that is that, you own it, period, end of discussion!!!



I agree with you that Disney is a for profit company. However, Disney jealously protects its reputation. And, honestly, if people who bought SSR begin to feel cheated or slighted and to make their unhappiness known publicly, I suspect Disney will react.


If people bought SSR and made a mistake, don't you think it is because they didn't do their research? I am sure that there are lots of people that for them, SSR is the perfect resort.

We certainly did our research. However, when we purchased, the Grandstand and the Carousel weren't on the map at all. In fact, all of the Springs was still considered to be "proposed."

Having said that, we do love SSR -- primarily for its proximity to DTD. We're big DTDers, so we're much higher on this resort than we are on other resorts.

[StotheK]

I agree with you that Disney is a for profit company. However, Disney jealously protects its reputation. And, honestly, if people who bought SSR begin to feel cheated or slighted and to make their unhappiness known publicly, I suspect Disney will react.


You must've never seen Disney's direct to DVD movies :tongue:

[BWV Dreamin]

Having said that, we do love SSR -- primarily for its proximity to DTD. We're big DTDers, so we're much higher on this resort than we are on other resorts.

This is why I really want to stay at SSR...for the DTD proximity. My 3 sons (all in their 20's) hit DTD the first night we arrived at WDW. I only hesitate in that I want either Grandstand or Congress Park. Period, no other buildings. To roll the dice on room assignment is not to my liking, nor is getting there at 8 am. to check in. Until this happens, I think I will have to wait for my SSR ressie. I really wish they would just get on with it and create booking catagories.

[administrator]

You must've never seen Disney's direct to DVD movies :tongue:

Why do you think they were direct to DVD? Because Disney jealously protects its rep. :)

[administrator]

This is why I really want to stay at SSR...for the DTD proximity. My 3 sons (all in their 20's) hit DTD the first night we arrived at WDW. I only hesitate in that I want either Grandstand or Congress Park. Period, no other buildings. To roll the dice on room assignment is not to my liking, nor is getting there at 8 am. to check in. Until this happens, I think I will have to wait for my SSR ressie. I really wish they would just get on with it and create booking catagories.

Honestly, I don't think you would have a hard time with that request: CP or Grandstand? You'll get something in one of those areas. Now, if you said CP/DTD view, that might be a little more difficult.

[gblast123]

...it would seem to me that SSR may eventually have destination improvements to it just to handle cash guests. If the property isn't booking well (but it does seem that it is booked from the various posts etc) then Disney is going to want to capitalize on those empty rooms... in a way if a paid DVC memeber isn't in them and then they can cash book it....it amounts to double dipping on the room.

To do that SSR is going to have to live up to other Disney resorts (NOT SAYING it doesn't... I have never even visited SSR!). To have it live up to what guests are expecting at the other resorts... well I'd be surprised if the resort isn't given some sort of additional feature to DRIVE cash guests to it.

What it will be.... not a clue. A small water park has been mentioned... plausible. Perhaps in the theme of the resort... more luxury spa features....

Obviously I don't have a clue but I would doubt that Disney would miss a chance to continue to maximize the development and find a way to get additional $$ returns.

Best,
Dora

Actually, you are quite perceptive and correct about what will drive the improvements.... it will not be disgruntled SSR DVC members. It will be the need to get more cash customers and to keep the Hotel portion full!! Whether or not DVC rooms are full or not is not their problem... they have already been paid for by SSR owners for the next 50 years.

Once SSR is sold out, DVC gets nothing more for improving the resort for DVC members. At that point, DVC views spending more money as fiscal irresponsibilty.. and they are correct, financially speaking. They have delivered what they promised... approx. 50 years of SSR accommodations. Any more money that is spent on behalf of SSR owners generates nothing!!

However, for their cash paying customers, and the Hotel componenet of SSR, they do have to maintain incentives. This is where I suspect that there is some funny business is going on with the maintence fees. If there is an improvement or additional things added to SSR, do our maintence fees pay for it? I really don't know, but I suspect that DVC owners get hit for a big chunk of it... after all, it is improving our SSR property!!

David

[gblast123]

..... Disney paid for the slide, not OKW owners. OKW members are paying for the ongoing operating costs of the slide (essentially the lifeguards) out of their annual dues.

Do you know this for a fact or are you just assuming? I don't know the answer but I am willing to bet that OKW owners paid a chunk out of their reserves or out of MF for the slide.... after all, OKW owners get to use it, no?

I think DVC Mike is needed here as he is the POS maven!!

David

[Gaston]

.
The current plans for THV are not set yet, but it doesn't maximize DVC's profits to simply add it to SSR as Grand Villas' type of rooms. Rather, it makes sense for them to wait until BLT sales to go forward, this will raise the DVC sales "floor" and later, sell SSR THV as an SSR phase IV or some such. They will have a much higher price point and the points per night will be .... astronomic is the only way to describe it. .
David
After reading this part of your post, I wanted to say I think this will also be true of Hawaii, and possibly CA.
We attended the CA DVC member event, and chatted with CM's and members. Adding up all the info I got, and hints from various people, I went away with a feeling that the price of points for both HI, and CA will rise dramatically, as will the number of points needed to stay at a DVC in HI, and CA. No one actually said this, but it was hinted at, and mentioned BLT, and THV, as part of it all.
CA points would be a bit higher than any resort, and BLT being the same, and higher. HI would come online at a high point cost, and we would all already be used to higher points, and prices per point.
So when you say THV will be astronomic, it makes perfect sense to me.
The second CA DVC would bring points back to a reasonable level we are used to now.
And while no one actually said this as fact, it was alluded to in a 'round about way.

[cheapmom]

Honestly, I don't think you would have a hard time with that request: CP or Grandstand? You'll get something in one of those areas. Now, if you said CP/DTD view, that might be a little more difficult.

Well- I the one time I stayed at SSR I requested CP, GS, or Springs and got Paddocks. I asked at the desk if I could wait for a room in one of my preferred areas and they said no- there were only 3 studios avail.- 1 in Carousel, 2 in Paddocks.
This was at about 2pm

[Daitcher]

Do you know this for a fact or are you just assuming? I don't know the answer but I am willing to bet that OKW owners paid a chunk out of their reserves or out of MF for the slide.... after all, OKW owners get to use it, no?

I think DVC Mike is needed here as he is the POS maven!!

David



No money came out of the pockets of OKW owners for the slide. I was an owner at OKW then and I paid close attention to that. OKW owners pay for the staffing/maintainance of that pool now, however.

As far as OKW owners not wanting it...... well, despite the supposed surveys showing otherwise I believe that far more people were in favor of it. It had been requested for years when each subsequent DVC had the slide. No doubt a lack of cash guets there gave DVC the push they needed but to say the membership did not want it is pur speculation and false speculation, IMO.


DAVE

[BWV Dreamin]

Well- I the one time I stayed at SSR I requested CP, GS, or Springs and got Paddocks. I asked at the desk if I could wait for a room in one of my preferred areas and they said no- there were only 3 studios avail.- 1 in Carousel, 2 in Paddocks.
This was at about 2pm

This just confirms my suspisions. Now, if the points / night were lower, I would consider that a trade off for not having a guaranteed view/location. I just have a hard time spending the same or more pts. for the same type of accomodations.

[Daitcher]

[QUOTE=Gaston;158033 HI would come online at a high point cost, and we would all already be used to higher points, and prices per point. [/QUOTE]



They can charge whatever they want intially but when sales tank we'll see HUGE incentives. If they do any research at all they will see that the sentiment towards HI DVC is folks would either take their chances at 7 months or do a small add on for an every third year trip. DVC California is so small that there will not be many members there at all to help spur add ons.

As much as I love HI, these airfares have to give people cause for concern. I can get a non-stop flight there and I'd still be hesitant to add on. Part of that is my unwillingness to believe that Disney will do this the right way. We've seen them in action before and they have proven they know nothing about Deluxe service. Can they do it right there? Yes they can, but will they?

If I was to buy there it would be after a full study of the amenities, services and features of that resort as well as a full site evaluation. Too many great resorts in HI to settle for a watered down DVC.


DAVE

[lenshanem]

Going back to the original post, so BLT will still probably be sold ~sometime~ in July, but probably no incentives until September?

Sooo, no incentives for current owners? So we're once again looking at an AKV situation where the starting member offer turns out to be a worse deal than the offer new members can later get in September? And keep in mind we won't be able to use those points for awhile...

So if this is the case, it might be better to hold off on getting points until after September when their fiscal year begins? I'm assuming there will still be points available at that time? Anyone's guess how long BLT will take to sell out?

[StotheK]

My read on it is that they're not going to sell it at all until September. I think if they started selling it ahead it might hurt AKV sales and they'd rather keep AKV selling since the're probably pretty confident BLT will sell no matter what.

[robinb]

Disney didn't exactly spend a lot of time selling the 4 pools, bus service etc when we bought in. They hit on stuff like the 7 month window, II trades, concierge collection.They have been stressing those three things ever since there was more than one resort. We took the DVC tour of OKW in 1997, At the time they had OKW, VB, HI and BWV just opened. I remember the things the guide stressed was the 7-month window and how we could use our points at the Grand Hotel in Michigan! We ended up buying a resale at OKW which included free park passes :).

[suecait]

The fact that some SSR resales are being offered for $72-74 per point (or in that range), doesn't bother DVC one bit!!!


David


So from what I have read SSR is the largest DVC, but when AKV is complete it will be almost as large as SSR. With that said, do you think that when SSR is sold out and AKV is completed and sold the resale price for SSR will go up?

[Daitcher]

So from what I have read SSR is the largest DVC, but when AKV is complete it will be almost as large as SSR. With that said, do you think that when SSR is sold out and AKV is completed and sold the resale price for SSR will go up?



No on all accounts.

SSR has 828 total units while AKV has 458. SSR is nearly twice as big, not sure why you thought AKV was even in the same league as SSR, size wise?

Also, SSR resale prices will not increase after AKV is sold out. What reasosn do you think otherwise? SSR will always be a large resort without direct theme park ties. This will forever be the reason that SSR will have the lowest resale values.



DAVE

[Blue&Gold]

SSR has 828 total units while AKV has 458. SSR is nearly twice as big, not sure why you thought AKV was even in the same league as SSR, size wise?



Agree... AKV's closest equivalent is BWV. Size, connection to a Deluxe Hotel and proximity to at least one of the parks.

[suecait]

Sorry, I thought I read in another post that after all phases of AKV was complete it would be rather large as SSR. I guess I was wrong or misunderstood.

As for resale price, I was just asking an opinion from people that are experienced. I had no idea myself, I am new to all of this. When we first purchased I would have thought that the resale price would drop every year since with every year used there is less to be used. So figured some sort of depreciation would take place. (ie, 10% of the contract used, the price would drop 10%). When looking at older DVC resales this apparently is not the case as I would have to assume the initial price per point would have been lower.

Just trying to educate myself.
:scary:

[greenban]

Sorry, I thought I read in another post that after all phases of AKV was complete it would be rather large as SSR. I guess I was wrong or misunderstood.

As for resale price, I was just asking an opinion from people that are experienced. I had no idea myself, I am new to all of this. When we first purchased I would have thought that the resale price would drop every year since with every year used there is less to be used. So figured some sort of depreciation would take place. (ie, 10% of the contract used, the price would drop 10%). When looking at older DVC resales this apparently is not the case as I would have to assume the initial price per point would have been lower.

Just trying to educate myself.
:scary:

Don't give up!

Learn something new everyday.

All of us have a writing 'style' it is the way we 'speak' on the web.

But without tone and eye contact it can come off harsher sounding than it really is. With time you will learn the 'tone' of each of us. Me, I'm an insanely humeorus voice of moderation. Dirk is a mature, thoughful person, TW1 is a brillant, irrelevant free thinker, Gblast123 is our financial analyst, Disney lover. Blue & Gold is our law and order keeper, and Daitcher, well he's Dave, misunderstood by many, but a passionate Disney fan, he also keeps us grounded and honest.

As to all the great ladies of MOs, let's just say, I love 'em all! ;)

-Tony

[jbrowna]

As to all the great ladies of MOs, let's just say, I love 'em all! ;)

-Tony

Or, in the words of Hawkeye Pierce, "I can't say that I've loved them all, but I've loved as many of them as I could!" :loveisint

[kimberh]

Sorry, I thought I read in another post that after all phases of AKV was complete it would be rather large as SSR. I guess I was wrong or misunderstood.

Just trying to educate myself.
:scary:
It's ok to say or ask what you think to be factual, especially on this board. I was blasted on the other board in the beginning, a lot. Now, I wish I could go back and read my first few posts, so I could see who was blasting me so bad. I really didn't pay attention to the dis name. This is a huge learning process, you just hang in there, read, read, then read some more.



Don't give up!

Learn something new everyday.

All of us have a writing 'style' it is the way we 'speak' on the web.

But without tone and eye contact it can come off harsher sounding than it really is. With time you will learn the 'tone' of each of us. Me, I'm an insanely humeorus voice of moderation. Dirk is a mature, thoughful person, TW1 is a brillant, irrelevant free thinker, Gblast123 is our financial analyst, Disney lover. Blue & Gold is our law and order keeper, and Daitcher, well he's Dave, misunderstood by many, but a passionate Disney fan, he also keeps us grounded and honest.

As to all the great ladies of MOs, let's just say, I love 'em all! ;)

-Tony

Tony, You are such a encourager, just wanted to let you know that.

[suecait]

Don't give up!

Learn something new everyday.

All of us have a writing 'style' it is the way we 'speak' on the web.

But without tone and eye contact it can come off harsher sounding than it really is. With time you will learn the 'tone' of each of us. Me, I'm an insanely humeorus voice of moderation. Dirk is a mature, thoughful person, TW1 is a brillant, irrelevant free thinker, Gblast123 is our financial analyst, Disney lover. Blue & Gold is our law and order keeper, and Daitcher, well he's Dave, misunderstood by many, but a passionate Disney fan, he also keeps us grounded and honest.

As to all the great ladies of MOs, let's just say, I love 'em all! ;)

-Tony


LOL.

I will admit I have caught onto some people's knowledge/humor and appreciate it. I took his comments for what it is. Yes, maybe for the first few seconds I was annoyed, but brushed it off knowing I could be taking it incorrectly. I know he has a lot of experience As for me, just bought my first DVC in Feb, and wished I found this site long before that. I will try to lurk more and write less. (BTY have just read thru the Oil Price thread. Man, a lot of people very knowledgable in that area, but I think I tend to agree with some of your view points.)

[carolina_yankee]

Don't give up!

Learn something new everyday.

All of us have a writing 'style' it is the way we 'speak' on the web.
TW1 is a brillant, irrelevant free thinker,
As to all the great ladies of MOs, let's just say, I love 'em all! ;)

-Tony

Did you mean irreverent? :)

[carolina_yankee]

Sorry, I thought I read in another post that after all phases of AKV was complete it would be rather large as SSR. I guess I was wrong or misunderstood.

As for resale price, I was just asking an opinion from people that are experienced. I had no idea myself, I am new to all of this. When we first purchased I would have thought that the resale price would drop every year since with every year used there is less to be used. So figured some sort of depreciation would take place. (ie, 10% of the contract used, the price would drop 10%). When looking at older DVC resales this apparently is not the case as I would have to assume the initial price per point would have been lower.

Just trying to educate myself.
:scary:

SSR isn't holding it's resale price as nicely as the other resorts are - as others have mentioned, it's size and location work against in that regard. I bought it in, with discount, at $83 per point. I'm not sure I could break even on a sale even though new DVC contracts are over $100 a point.

However, BCV, BWV, and VWL continue to do well in resale because of location and because newer resorts don't have that to offer (at least until the Contemporary DVC opens for sales). They are smaller, in a great location, and have high demand as a result.

:welcome: to MouseOwners - we really are friendly. Don't be afraid to ask anything, and remember that even though sometimes a curmudgeon lurks around here, everyone honestly wants to be helpful.


Dirk

[HauntedPirate]

SSR isn't holding it's resale price as nicely as the other resorts are - as others have mentioned, it's size and location work against in that regard. I bought it in, with discount, at $83 per point. I'm not sure I could break even on a sale even though new DVC contracts are over $100 a point.

However, BCV, BWV, and VWL continue to do well in resale because of location and because newer resorts don't have that to offer (at least until the Contemporary DVC opens for sales). They are smaller, in a great location, and have high demand as a result.

:welcome: to MouseOwners - we really are friendly. Don't be afraid to ask anything, and remember that even though sometimes a curmudgeon lurks around here, everyone honestly wants to be helpful.


Dirk

True. I've seen BCV in the $92-94/point range, while SSR can be had for low 80's per point, and OKW even offered as low as $68/point. Of course, I've also seen OKW offered at $90/point with a 2057 expiration. :)

I'd love to get in either at BCV or at BLT (God, I hate that name....) Maybe I'll just have to call it "The Tower" and just be done with it. :headbange

[cheapmom]

Time will tell regarding SSR's resale prices. Once incentives dry up and the resale companies aren't competeing directly with DVC's developer incentives is when we will know if SSR will hold its value. AKV is having the same problem- We won't know much until sell-out mode settles in.

[Daitcher]

Sorry, I thought I read in another post that after all phases of AKV was complete it would be rather large as SSR. I guess I was wrong or misunderstood.

As for resale price, I was just asking an opinion from people that are experienced. I had no idea myself, I am new to all of this. When we first purchased I would have thought that the resale price would drop every year since with every year used there is less to be used. So figured some sort of depreciation would take place. (ie, 10% of the contract used, the price would drop 10%). When looking at older DVC resales this apparently is not the case as I would have to assume the initial price per point would have been lower.

Just trying to educate myself.
:scary:



No apologies necessary. Well, maybe on my end. After reading my post again it came across wrong. I was pressed for time and simply posted a short version.

The questions I asked were honest questions. I was truly wondering if perhaps you had heard that AKV was going to be expanded to the size of SSR. My second question was about resale values. I was seeing if you had any insight into resale values of SSR. I got the impression that you had more info to share.

My posts come across as harsh at times, I wish they didn't. Sitting here typing, know that the intent is always helpful not spiteful.


DAVE

[JimP]

My posts come across as harsh at times, I wish they didn't. Sitting here typing, know that the intent is always helpful not spiteful.



DAVE you ignorant slut. When are you going to write in a nice, peaceful, balanced, respectful manner like I always strive to attain?

(said with my Dan Akroyd voice on)

/Jim

[bavaria]

My posts come across as harsh at times, I wish they didn't.

Same here - hence the 'cranky German' nickname. Plus I tend to deal with facts more than emotions, and avoid the use of smileys (well, we do have some good ones on this site, so I use more than I do 'elsewhere')

Here, let's all be happy for a moment :goob:




:scary:


Oh, and welcome, suecait!

[gblast123]

....
:welcome: to MouseOwners - we really are friendly. Don't be afraid to ask anything, and remember that even though sometimes a curmudgeon lurks around here, everyone honestly wants to be helpful.

Dirk

First I'm called a financial analyst, then a curmudgeon.... Well I never!!

[carolina_yankee]

First I'm called a financial analyst, then a curmudgeon.... Well I never!!

Hey - I just hold up the mirror. You see in it whatever you want!!

Dirk

[Daitcher]

Hey - I just hold up the mirror. You see in it whatever you want!!

Dirk

:clappingh Now that is a god one!


DAVE

[Daitcher]

Same here - hence the 'cranky German' nickname. Plus I tend to deal with facts more than emotions, and avoid the use of smileys (well, we do have some good ones on this site, so I use more than I do 'elsewhere')

Here, let's all be happy for a moment :goob:




:scary:


Oh, and welcome, suecait!



Welcome back Bavaria!

Ther is a fine lady that posts here on occasion, screen name Becca. I've always said that if I could simply tell Becca my thoughts and have her post them I'd be the most liked guy on the boards. I need a translater!!!!!


DAVE

[dmaxdmax]

Well I never!!

"Well you should sometime."
- G. Marx

[BWV Dreamin]

Welcome back Bavaria!

Ther is a fine lady that posts here on occasion, screen name Becca. I've always said that if I could simply tell Becca my thoughts and have her post them I'd be the most liked guy on the boards. I need a translater!!!!!


DAVE

Hmmm.....sounds like a Maxell House coffee moment!:ROTFL:

[Blue&Gold]

...Blue & Gold is our law and order keeper...

True... Hopefully in a friendly, neighborhood cop-on-the-beat sort of way.

Now, everyone move along... Nothing to see here...

[suecait]

Now, everyone move along... Nothing to see here...

:hahahaha:

[gblast123]

I am just mirroring update in OP so that everyone will receive the post.

________________

Update 6/26/08 :

1) BLT definately delayed, possibly to September/October. Apparently the DVC sales quota is on track and AKV is still selling well, even if it is for Kidani. CM in sales are not too happy about this, but they don't really have a say in it.

2) SSR's are basically sold out for new inventory. With rare exceptions, DVC is only selling AKV. There is some "add on" inventory for SSR.

[rnawiz]

:tearsaref

I guess ( on the bright side), I'll have more time to save, which means more points to buy, but the waiting is getting to me!

If only I could have some points charts to play with, I'd be happy! Spend my days planning years of theoretical vacations, like I do with the other resorts.

Thanks for the update.

[cheapmom]

:crymeariv:crymeariv:crymeariv:crymeariv

[robinb]

I am just mirroring update in OP so that everyone will receive the post.

________________

Update 6/26/08 :

1) BLT definately delayed, possibly to September/October. Apparently the DVC sales quota is on track and AKV is still selling well, even if it is for Kidani. CM in sales are not too happy about this, but they don't really have a say in it.
Thanks for the update. The delay doesn't matter much to me. It's not like the resort will be open and my $10K set aside can earn some more interest. I am somewhat confused about the reasoning though. AKV is selling well so they are delaying BLT? If AKV were not selling well they would add BLT? It seems that with AKV being the only game in town of course it would sell well!

[tomandrobin]

:crymeariv:crymeariv:crymeariv:crymeariv

Patience is a virtue!

Good things come to those who wait.

You can't stay there until fall of 2009 anyway.

[BWV Dreamin]

Thanks for the update. The delay doesn't matter much to me. It's not like the resort will be open and my $10K set aside can earn some more interest. I am somewhat confused about the reasoning though. AKV is selling well so they are delaying BLT? If AKV were not selling well they would add BLT? It seems that with AKV being the only game in town of course it would sell well!

It has to do with quarterly earnings.

[lenshanem]

I dunno. The new booking policy has me a little more hesitant about BLT. I would like the 11 month booking window for NYE, but given the new policy... We like to go the day before NYE and stay thru the first week of January. Now with this new policy NYE will already be booked by the time I get around to booking my dates, plus I can really give up any chance of a MK view category if they indeed have one...

[broganmc]

I dunno. The new booking policy has me a little more hesitant about BLT. I would like the 11 month booking window for NYE, but given the new policy... We like to go the day before NYE and stay thru the first week of January. Now with this new policy NYE will already be booked by the time I get around to booking my dates, plus I can really give up any chance of a MK view category if they indeed have one...

I'm not worried about that because I have another better (IMHO) place to spend NYE. But the delay does help me save more. Summer has brought unexpected expenses for our beach place and my wallet is hurting.

I sure wish we had some point charts to play with or some hint what the costs will be. Disney could take a huge hit if they throw BLT at is with exhorbitant charges as everyone feels the gas crunch post-summer.

[RweTHEREyet]

Well, every montht hat goes by, I have a few more pennies saved up for points, so that works for me.

[kimberh]

I have just talked with my guide about needing a BeachClub Add on, with the possibility of a AKV add on. I told him, in the process that I was not interested in the least of BLT, he might as well admit that Contemporary is a DVC, we all knew it was. His reply was," have you seen it lately?" I said, "Yes, I saw it in May, I really never liked the Contemporary, it just wasn't me." He told me how far I was on the add on list for BCV's, I said, " well, when BLT, is up for sale, maybe this list will shorten," he said, " maybe." I gave him my cc and we finished the conversation.

If anyone is selling their BCV's Oct UY, please hurry, so I can get what I need.:goodvibes

[cheapmom]

BroganMc- there you are! I haven't seen you around lately! (I am tenthousandvolts on the DIS)

[Daitcher]

I am just mirroring update in OP so that everyone will receive the post.

________________

Update 6/26/08 :

1) BLT definately delayed, possibly to September/October. Apparently the DVC sales quota is on track and AKV is still selling well, even if it is for Kidani. CM in sales are not too happy about this, but they don't really have a say in it.

2) SSR's are basically sold out for new inventory. With rare exceptions, DVC is only selling AKV. There is some "add on" inventory for SSR.



Ahhh, looks like I won't need that SSR shirt after all. Not surprised at all by this. I'm not sure who came up with this supposed July date anyway. CRV isn't even close to being open so why not let AKV sales continue without competition?


DAVE

[gblast123]

Ahhh, looks like I won't need that SSR shirt after all. Not surprised at all by this. I'm not sure who came up with this supposed July date anyway. CRV isn't even close to being open so why not let AKV sales continue without competition?


DAVE

I'm not sure that I remember, but wasn't your bet predicated on SSR selling out.. ie new sales, by the end of June... ? I would have to look back at the thread, ... i'm really not sure... but I don't think that BLT opening was the bet criteria.

David

[JimP]

Ahhh, looks like I won't need that SSR shirt after all. Not surprised at all by this. I'm not sure who came up with this supposed July date anyway. CRV isn't even close to being open so why not let AKV sales continue without competition?


DAVE

Dave,

How does the closing of DtD affect your feelings about your favorite DVC?

/Jim

[Daitcher]

I'm not sure that I remember, but wasn't your bet predicated on SSR selling out.. ie new sales, by the end of June... ? I would have to look back at the thread, ... i'm really not sure... but I don't think that BLT opening was the bet criteria.

David



Yeah, I need to check but I believe I had said both would be false. If I'm half wrong then I owe you half of a shirt. Either way. I also belive part of my stance was that the THV would not be made part of SSR.

DAVE

[Daitcher]

Dave,

How does the closing of DtD affect your feelings about your favorite DVC?

/Jim



Sorry Jim, my head is a little cloudy this morning, too much wine/beer last night.:beer:

DtD???????


DAVE

[cheapmom]

I think they are shutting down most of the night clubs over at dtd. I guess I won't know how I feel about it untl I see what replaces them. Might be better might be worse.

What would be better? What would be worse?

New themed restaurant - ok
Restaurant with character meals- yes! better!
Giant DVC sales center- yes and give DVC the theatre back!
Tattoo/Body piercing parlor- probably not a great idea
Oxygen Bar- nahh
Dollar Store- never
Giant kids club- AWESOME
Big Theatre for travelling broadway shows or concerts- DOUBLE AWESOME
Grocery store- Hahahahahahahaha
Ice/Roller Rink- cool

It is just going to be more gift shops and so-so restaurants I think. Are they going to keep at least a couple of bars?

[JimP]

Sorry Jim, my head is a little cloudy this morning, too much wine/beer last night.:beer:

DtD???????


DAVE

A few cups of coffee might do you good ;)

Personally I think that closing Pleasure Island is bad for WDW and for SSR. I find it to be no coincidence that they announce the closure on the same day the sell out SSR. Maybe DtD will become better of time... but I doubt it. I am going to really miss Comedy Club, Adventurers Cub the most. I already miss the nightly NYE celebration.

/Jim

[dsruton]

Thats par for the course. The one place we went to for a night out (Adv. Club) and now it gone. What next!!! :hammer::hammer:

[Daitcher]

A few cups of coffee might do you good ;)

Personally I think that closing Pleasure Island is bad for WDW and for SSR. I find it to be no coincidence that they announce the closure on the same day the sell out SSR. Maybe DtD will become better of time... but I doubt it. I am going to really miss Comedy Club, Adventurers Cub the most. I already miss the nightly NYE celebration.

/Jim



The fog has lifted....... less wine last night.

The one thing I know is that Disney follows the money. If they closed PI then there must be a financial reason for doing so. I know they had been struggling getting locals into PI like they had in the past. So obviously this was a business decision and if PI was failing then I support it.

What does it mean in the short term for SSR? Of course it stings. The option of PI at night was a major draw for SSR. It will hurt SSR and to a lesser degree OKW in the short term. What I'm hoing for, well counting on, is that Disney will revitalize that area with something more appealing. I'd love to see maybe one really good Club and some really good bar/restaurant combos and another entertainment venue like Cirque. Anyone that has been to Brio Tuscan Grill, that would be a nice addition. Food is great, atmosphere is great and they have both indoor and outdoor bars. Nice to grab a drink either before or after dining at a nice bar or two.

Time will tell but for me personally, I'll be holding onto my SSR points for a while until this plays out.


DAVE

[Blue&Gold]

The dining plan debacle drives this in part, I would think. They need more TS... Close the clubs, replace with TS restaurants and "themed" retail space, and all those folks trapped on site will now make the pilgrimage to DtD to eat, and while they're waiting they can buy more Mickey Ears!

[Carol]

.......

The one thing I know is that Disney follows the money. If they closed PI then there must be a financial reason for doing so. I know they had been struggling getting locals into PI like they had in the past. So obviously this was a business decision and if PI was failing then I support it.
.....


DAVEIF it was failing it's their own fault. I think it started to fail when they decided to stop controlling access and watered down the entertainment options.

That's when I decided it wasn't worth it anymore. Should have tightened access and made it a true adult venue. No one under 21 admitted. Period. That would probably also have helped considerably with the problem they have been having with teens hanging around intimidating the tourists.

Anyway, I'm probably in the minority with this opinion. Based on what they have now, it probably is more financially viable to close the clubs and open chain restaurants and T-shirt shops.

[JimP]

IF it was failing it's their own fault. I think it started to fail when they decided to stop controlling access and watered down the entertainment options.

Carol,

I agree... when they opened the bridges, and moved admission control into specific clubs... that was the beginning of the end.

/Jim

[Nurse Kim]

Your information has been well received. Keep it coming.

As for the quote above, please don't promote SSR. It is a terrible resort and no one should stay there. I am already getting frustrated with it starting to get harder to get in there. KEEP AWAY!

Just because people say the the bus service is great, that's no reason to want to stay there. WHO WANTS GOOD BUS SERVICE??

Just because people say there are 4 fabulous pools, that's not a good enough reason to stay there. IT'S WAY TOO BIG.

Just because people love the view of Downtown Disney and enjoy the few minutes it takes to walk over there at night is certainly NO REASON to stay at SSR.

So what if the food court and restaurant is fantastic. STAY AWAY PEOPLE. You won' like it.

The only thing I like about it is it's close proximity to all the outside restaurants, outlets, stores, pharmacies etc. But that's no reson for everyone else to love it, so KEEP OFF!!

David

(and if you happen to hear me say "it is my favorite resort" in a conversation, well, I am just lying)

If SSR is hard to get into during the 7 month window why are they offering matched points as an incentive to buy into AKV right now?

[tomandrobin]

If SSR is hard to get into during the 7 month window why are they offering matched points as an incentive to buy into AKV right now?

The developer points were unsold points that were sitting in DVC's inventory of points. Once a building is completed, DVC owns every single point unitl they are sold. When was Grand Stand and Carousel sections complete? 18-24 months ago? That is where all those points came from, they were not owned or used, but available.

[Carol]

If SSR is hard to get into during the 7 month window why are they offering matched points as an incentive to buy into AKV right now?
Daddio is just kidding.

[hilaw]

Another "pitch" for SSR was the lower maintenance/dues :burningma ,
...so you in theory could buy SSR and book others at 7 months and (not need to buy at others and also) save money on maintenance/dues.

[Daitcher]

Another "pitch" for SSR was the lower maintenance/dues :burningma ,
...so you in theory could buy SSR and book others at 7 months and (not need to buy at others and also) save money on maintenance/dues.



Listen if you were a guide you'd do anything you could to sell that place. What was told to buyers here is true, it DOES have lower dues and you CAN stay at the other DVC Resorts. I've owned SSR for 6 years now and I've stayed there twice so yes it can be done at 7 months and I've never used day by day calling either.


DAVE

[hilaw]

Yes, the "guides" are sales driven and they are not always our trusted friends.
I do believe that some of their "representations" go deep into the gray areas.

[hilaw]

Dave,
Have you been caught saying something good about SSR?
Have you been defending SSR recently?

You may be losing your firm grip on the T-Shirt.

Note: This post is completely sarcastic.
Otherwise, I hear what you are saying...

[lcurranrogers@roadrunner.]

What do BLT and THV stand for? We just bought at Kidani village and were given points to use at SSR within one year. From what I've read, I'm a little nervous about booking there. We must vacation at times with very high attendance, so will it be a problem to get a room at SSR? I've enjoyed reading your posts...thanks for the wealth of information from all of you. Lisa

[tomandrobin]

BLT is Bay Lake Tower....the new DVC at the Contemporary Resrt.

THV is Tree House Villas....rumored Tree House resort, that was part of Disney Institute, that is currently being rebuilt.

[tomandrobin]

What do BLT and THV stand for? We just bought at Kidani village and were given points to use at SSR within one year. From what I've read, I'm a little nervous about booking there. We must vacation at times with very high attendance, so will it be a problem to get a room at SSR? I've enjoyed reading your posts...thanks for the wealth of information from all of you. Lisa

Also, Welcome to MouseOwners!