Info re: room tax on point rentals

[kdzgon]

Ok, so this info is not as breaking as Tony's news, but here goes:

A while back (~01/30/08, on a thread I can no longer find) we were discussing whether or not DVC owners should be charging room and/or sales tax on our point rentals. I figured rather than keep guessing I would request a definitive answer. After (IMHO) quite a lengthy delay (although I did post my request during tax season), I received a phone call and then a written response.

I am going to try and attach the entire letter, but the most relevant info was "vacation timeshare points are not tangible personal property and are not the rental of a transient accommodation. Therefore, no sales tax is due, whether it is a one-time rental or a regular occurrence." Also, the tourist development tax ("room tax" in my query) is only charged on the "rentals of transient accommodations".

The letter includes my specific inquiries before addressing and answering the issues.

Mods, please feel free to re-locate this if I posted in the wrong area - thanks!


Edited to delete attachments until I can re-post edited graphics.

[Plutofan2]

Please beaware that this ruling, per Tammy Miller this morning, only addresses transfers and not booking of reservations. It is based upon the assumption that you transfer points to someone and the points may or may not be used.

[carolina_yankee]

Perhaps a letter relating directly to the situation of renting a reservation would be helpful, too. I doubt there's much traffic in renting / giving points to someone without knowing if they will be used, especially since the owner of the points has to make the reservation.

There's conflicting information out there about tax payments on rentals, so let the reader beware. Always consult your own accountants, tax attorneys, and follow division of taxation guidelines if you want to stay out of trouble.

Dirk

[greenban]

Kd thanks for the effort and staying the course.

This topic should prove quite interesting as details flesh out.

-Tony

[DVC Mike]

I called Tammy Miller (the author of the posted letter) at the Florida Department of Revenue to obtain clarification.

I told Tammy how her letter is being interpreted, and she said her letter does not say what the OP is saying it does.

I asked her if a timeshare member uses their points to book a reservation at a timeshare resort, and then turns around and "rents" the reservation out to someone else in exchange for cash, would the cash collected be subject to the state tax and tourist development tax.

Her answer was "definitely yes". She said that would be the rental of transient accomodations and the Florida DOR and Orange County taxes would definitely apply.

She said she was a bit confused about the concept of "renting points" in the letter she received, and says her letter is being put forth to say something she did not intend to state.

[greenban]

I called Tammy Miller (the author of the posted letter) at the Florida Department of Revenue to obtain clarification.

I told Tammy how her letter is being interpreted, and she said her letter does not say what the OP is saying it does.

I asked her if a timeshare member uses their points to book a reservation at a timeshare resort, and then turns around and "rents" the reservation out to someone else in exchange for cash, would the cash collected be subject to the state tax and tourist development tax.

Her answer was "definitely yes". She said that would be the rental of transient accomodations and the Florida DOR and Orange County taxes would definitely apply.

She said she was a bit confused about the concept of "renting points" in the letter she received, and says her letter is being put forth to say something she did not intend to state.

DVC Mike thanks for the clarification.

However, since all my (hypothetical of course, ;) ) renting takes place over the internet and I have no legal residence or business in FL, I would dispute their legal right to tax out-of-state, non-tangable transactions.

Don't get me wrong, I believe we will shortly see state courts followed by Federal courts, deciding this issue. With the state of the economy, I expect the states to prevail in collecting taxes. But right now, I don't believe they have the legal authority for the hypothetical scenario I proposed. Of course one hope President Obama, who has expressed a fondness for WDW would oppose said tyranny and trampling of interstate commerce, one of the Federal Government's defined duties/powers!

Of course I am not an Attorney, Paralegal, and I have never staid at a Holiday Inn Express, just many, many DVCs, so YMMV!

-Tony

[DVC Mike]

However, since all my (hypothetical of course, ;) ) renting takes place over the internet and I have no legal residence or business in FL, I would dispute their legal right to tax out-of-state, non-tangable transactions.


So if you don't live in Florida, and book a hotel in Florida, you don't have to pay sales tax or the room tax? Good luck taking that to court. :rolleyes:

Oh, and you do have a titled real estate deed for property in Florida.

By the way, the Floridia Department of Revenue statement on renting out "transient accomodations" is available HERE (http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/res_real_property.html).

[greenban]

So if you don't live in Florida, and book a hotel in Florida, you don't have to pay sales tax or the room tax? Good luck taking that to court. :rolleyes:

By the way, the Floridia Department of Revenue statement on renting out "transient accomodations" is available HERE (http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/res_real_property.html).


Come On Mike, that's not what I said. Like internet sellers everywhere (think Amazon), they are fighting taxation from any state that they may ship to, if they have no Physical or Legal (as corporate presence) in said state. Just because a state introduces an invalid law regarding interstate commerce, doesn't make it enforcable. However the Owner would be subject (IMHO) to sales taxes in their state of juristiction.

The way you miss-presented my argument would make my argument childish, even for me, which would make it either infantile or pre-gestation :rolleyes:

Building upon your reply, I guess Owners would have to pay Florida's sales and tourist taxes as well as their own local state sales tax??????

-Tony

[DVC Mike]

Come On Mike, that's not what I said.


Sorry, I was just taking it to the next level. If renters don't have to pay tax on DVC rentals, then why not rental homes and then hotels?


Like internet sellers everywhere (think Amazon), they are fighting taxation from any state that they may ship to, if they have no Physical or Legal (as corporate presence) in said state. Just because a state introduces an invalid law regarding interstate commerce, doesn't make it enforcable. However the Owner would be subject (IMHO) to sales taxes in their state of juristiction.


The difference is those items are being shipped out of the state they are being sold in, so why should the seller have to pay in-state taxes? With a DVC rental, property within the state of Florida is being rented, so why shouldn't Florida be allowed to tax the rental?


The way you miss-presented my argument would make my argument childish, even for me, which would make it either infantile or pre-gestation :rolleyes:


Again, sorry if I misrepresented your argument. :cheers2:

[kdzgon]

This "OP" didn't "interpret" - I said what was in the letter and I scanned and posted the exact letter so you can see what I wrote, what they quoted and what the written response was. If there was an error in interpretation it was not mine.

I will add that I received a phone call in February on this question, and if she did not understand my question, she could and should have requested additional clarification before issuing a written interpretation letter.

BTW, I do not appreciate the phone call to Ms. Miller without so much as the courtesy of contacting me first, especially as they have my - and possibly only my - contact information, even though I inked it out before posting.

[kdzgon]

Please beaware that this ruling, per Tammy Miller this morning, only addresses transfers and not booking of reservations. It is based upon the assumption that you give points to someone and the points may or may not be used.

If you read the letter you will see I specified that the exchange of points was for cash, not "giving points".

[greenban]

Sorry, I was just taking it to the next level. If renters don't have to pay tax on DVC rentals, then why not rental homes and then hotels?



The difference is those items are being shipped out of the state they are being sold in, so why should the seller have to pay in-state taxes? With a DVC rental, property within the state of Florida is being rented, so why shouldn't Florida be allowed to tax the rental?



Again, sorry if I misrepresented your argument. :cheers2:

Mike, I now more clearly hear what you are saying. But FL, DVC put themselves in a quandry. Them made it clear I am not a Florida resident, despite my RTC timeshare purchase. If I rent it out of FL, I would think that sales tax would legally only apply where the cash transaction takes place.

Kinda like the nonsense on each of my DVC deeds, for the value of $10.00 and other......

Come on FL, we all know I paid way more than $10.00 for my DVC. If they can play that game so can I. I'll gladly pay the taxes (both States, BTW) for my $10.00 deeded property divided over 50 years, heck I'll even pay it for the whole $10.00 each rental, as I only charged the same $10.00 DVD/DVC/FL reports on their deeds. I'm gonna pop over to the orange county website, and see if I can get the actual deed language!

Beers back at you!

-Tony

[kdzgon]

I posted what I thought was fairly clear-cut language, copied said language and posted the actual letter so you can draw your own conclusions. I certainly did not have to request clarification, nor did I have to share it with anyone but I thought it might be helpful. I should have included the standard caveat "this may not apply to your situation..blah blah blah", as any individual response will not carry weight for any unrelated party.

I am appalled that rather than submit one's own request for clarification via the Dept of Revenue website several people chose to call on my letter as posted, without so much as an "would you mind..." or even "I intend on calling...". Then, my alleged "use" of the letter was misrepresented - re-read my post and the letter and you will see I lifted the language from the letter - I did not "interpret" it.

Considering the fact that it is my personal information attached to the request and response I have emailed a mod and requested the removal of either my attachments or the entire thread.

I expected better from this site and the people on it.

Laurie

[greenban]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/snarfer1/TonysDeed.jpg

Above is a copy of the actual wording of one of my deeds as available on the Orance County Comptrollers Office website.

So again not being a Lawyer, it looks like my DVC is worth $10.00 cash, and other 'amounts' not specified here.

Elaine, Oh Elaine, come teach us!

-Tony

[carolina_yankee]

I agree that kdzgon did not interpret the letter - just quoted the relevant portion in her mind. Based on Plutofan2 and DVCMike's information, it looks like the agent with the division of taxation did not fully grasp the question, which is not kdzgon's fault.

It does appear that there are remaining questions to be addressed and members are free to bring forth accurate information as they see fit. However, it does help if information is sourced, as kdzgon did, otherwise it becomes "he said, she said."

Dirk

[greenban]

I posted what I thought was fairly clear-cut language, copied said language and posted the actual letter so you can draw your own conclusions. I certainly did not have to request clarification, nor did I have to share it with anyone but I thought it might be helpful. I should have included the standard caveat "this may not apply to your situation..blah blah blah", as any individual response will not carry weight for any unrelated party.

I am appalled that rather than submit one's own request for clarification via the Dept of Revenue website several people chose to call on my letter as posted, without so much as an "would you mind..." or even "I intend on calling...". Then, my alleged "use" of the letter was misrepresented - re-read my post and the letter and you will see I lifted the language from the letter - I did not "interpret" it.

Considering the fact that it is my personal information attached to the request and response I have emailed a mod and requested the removal of either my attachments or the entire thread.

I expected better from this site and the people on it.

Laurie

Laurie:

Goto to your photobucker account and delete the images you posted.

This is the fastest way to end this.

-Tony

ETA: I'm sorry you have felt some of the 'costs' associated with free speech. I have had my name reported many times for my honesty about renting and how to do it. My 1156 OKW contract is like a finger print, there are not too many exactly 1156 DVC contracts! To be fair, the majority of reporters came from that other site, that hates all forms of renting!

[carolina_yankee]

Considering the fact that it is my personal information attached to the request and response I have emailed a mod and requested the removal of either my attachments or the entire thread.

Laurie

Laurie, I did reply to you with the options available. We try really, really hard to not delete threads or posts unless they turn into personal attacks. So far, I'm hearing that people are confused and curious and seeking more information.

To be honest - posting the original letter automatically gives anyone who reads it the opportunity they need to call the author of the letter and ask "Did you mean to say this?"

Personally, given that there is confusion, has been confusion, and will continue to be confusion, I hope people can stick with the conversation until everything gets sorted out.

Dirk

[DVC Mike]

I posted what I thought was fairly clear-cut language, copied said language and posted the actual letter so you can draw your own conclusions. I certainly did not have to request clarification, nor did I have to share it with anyone but I thought it might be helpful. I should have included the standard caveat "this may not apply to your situation..blah blah blah", as any individual response will not carry weight for any unrelated party.

I am appalled that rather than submit one's own request for clarification via the Dept of Revenue website several people chose to call on my letter as posted, without so much as an "would you mind..." or even "I intend on calling...". Then, my alleged "use" of the letter was misrepresented - re-read my post and the letter and you will see I lifted the language from the letter - I did not "interpret" it.

Considering the fact that it is my personal information attached to the request and response I have emailed a mod and requested the removal of either my attachments or the entire thread.

I expected better from this site and the people on it.

Laurie

Laurie,

I'm glad you took the time to write the Florida DOR and post their response.

By posting what you found out on a somewhat contested topic, you opened the topic up for discussion. After all, this is a discussion forum.

By posting the original letter, you opened the door for people who were interested in learning more to contact the person who wrote the letter for clarification. I don't see the need to obtain your permission before doing so.

This thread has had some back and forth on the topic, but hasn't degenerated into personal attacks or name calling.

To me, this is just a theoretical discussion, since I'm pretty sure most DVC members don't collect any tax.

[kdzgon]

Laurie,

I'm glad you took the time to write the Florida DOR and post their response.

By posting what you found out on a somewhat contested topic, you opened the topic up for discussion. After all, this is a discussion forum.

By posting the original letter, you opened the door for people who were interested in learning more to contact the person who wrote the letter for clarification. I don't see the need to obtain your permission before doing so.

This thread has had some back and forth on the topic, but hasn't degenerated into personal attacks or name calling.

To me, this is just a theoretical discussion, since I'm pretty sure most DVC members don't collect any tax.

I posted the letter as the board requests substantiation of statements when possible.

As to contacting the specific person at the Florida DOR, I never said "permission" - I said "common courtesy" - there is a difference. "Would you mind" is a request for input, not permission and "I'm doing this" is notice so I am not blindsided as I felt when reading this thread.

If my personal information were not on the letter, I would not have cared nor even commented on the calls. However, as it was clear that this was a personal response that I shared I thought - and still think - I deserved the courtesy of notice.

I respect your right to disagree, but I have a right to post my reactions as well, especially when I was misquoted as according to post #5,

"I told Tammy how her letter is being interpreted, and she said her letter does not say what the OP is saying it does.

...and says her letter is being put forth to say something she did not intend to state."

I did not interpret, and she made the error if she did not intend to state what she did.

BTW, IMO, most people rent points, not a specific reservation. Unlike reservations through the CRO, if the renter chooses not to use the reservation he or she is often still responsible for the full agreed-upon price for the points.

[kdzgon]

Laurie, I did reply to you with the options available. We try really, really hard to not delete threads or posts unless they turn into personal attacks. So far, I'm hearing that people are confused and curious and seeking more information.

To be honest - posting the original letter automatically gives anyone who reads it the opportunity they need to call the author of the letter and ask "Did you mean to say this?"

Personally, given that there is confusion, has been confusion, and will continue to be confusion, I hope people can stick with the conversation until everything gets sorted out.

Dirk

Dirk,

OK - I will pay the price for my mistake and keep the info for now. I have no problem with the discussion itself.

I also find it interesting that the Florida rep would not give me a verbal response to my question, calling me earlier this week to obtain my mailing address, yet she gave verbal "corrections" or verifications to more than one caller today. I fully expect to receive another letter considering the turn of events.

I do know in the meanwhile I have a better stand than anyone that received a verbal "clarification". I am not an attorney but until(if) I receive a retraction or clarification, the language seems pretty clear cut to me.

As I stated in my reply to DVC Mike, I am also not so sure this is so clear cut as to be said that this is absolutely a reservation rental and I would be interested to see if I receive another letter declaring the rental of points a reservation. Points can be used for other options such as a cruise or exchange for accommodations outside of Florida, and many contracts specify no guarantee of availability etc. I suspect a contract could be written that could cast significant doubt as to classification of the underlying item(s) in question.

[DVC Mike]

As I stated in my reply to DVC Mike, I am also not so sure this is so clear cut as to be said that this is absolutely a reservation rental and I would be interested to see if I receive another letter declaring the rental of points a reservation. Points can be used for other options such as a cruise or exchange for accommodations outside of Florida, and many contracts specify no guarantee of availability etc. I suspect a contract could be written that could cast significant doubt as to classification of the underlying item(s) in question.

Just to clarify, there actually is no such thing as a "rental of points". Point cannot be rented out - they always belong to the member, and can only be used by the member.

A member can make a reservation on behalf of another person and charge that person for the reservation. The amount charged is based upon the number of the member's points it takes to secure the particular reservation multiplied by the cost per point the member wants to charge.

So, all members can do is to rent out a reservation for a specific resort/accomodation. Members cannot rent out their points -- that is just the term that is commonly used.

[carolina_yankee]

I think this is part of the reason why Tammy Miller is confused - DVC members don't use consistent terminology, or terminology consistent with the POS, when renting points/reservations. This is also why Tammy's letter had the disclaimer that this was just her opinion.

It will be interesting to see what letter other people get. As it is - I do think the letter kdzgon posted (which I hope she'll be able to at least quote at length in her post) would be clear about point transfers not being taxable (even if done for money) and that there's still a gray area distinguishing between accepting money for points, and then making a reservation on behalf of the user of the those points.

The bottom line is that none of us are tax attorneys, and Florida will have to be very clear about what it wants to do before there is going to be any consistent interpretation of the law.

Dirk

[Plutofan2]

I think this is part of the reason why Tammy Miller is confused - DVC members don't use consistent terminology, or terminology consistent with the POS, when renting points/reservations. This is also why Tammy's letter had the disclaimer that this was just her opinion.

It will be interesting to see what letter other people get. As it is - I do think the letter kdzgon posted (which I hope she'll be able to at least quote at length in her post) would be clear about point transfers not being taxable (even if done for money) and that there's still a gray area distinguishing between accepting money for points, and then making a reservation on behalf of the user of the those points.

The bottom line is that none of us are tax attorneys, and Florida will have to be very clear about what it wants to do before there is going to be any consistent interpretation of the law.

Dirk

I believe that the difference that the auditor was trying to spell out is if you transfer points you have no oidea how those points will be used (ie WDW, interval international, DCL etc) so Florida would have a tough time to collect any tax. If you make a reservation for the renter, no matter if you sell them points and then make a reservation you still control those points, you know how they were used, and you made a reservation in the state of Florida.

[dianeschlicht]

Well, we DO pay property tax in Florida via our maintenance fees, and as for selling and shipping out of state....most states require that tax no matter where the seller resides. The thing that I think is crucial to this discussion is if renters were required to collect and pay sales tax on a rental, that would probably make them a commercial venture... SO...what does that do to the ability to rent?

[Plutofan2]

If you owe sales tax has nothing to due about if you are a commercial venture or not. It just deals with the rules of the state and how Florida applies them. They may tax no one, everyone or only someone who rents a lot. Only Florida can tell you. It all depends on how Florida writes the rules and applies the rules. Commercial venture is the terminolgy that Disney currently uses to define the parameters that they will allow you to rent your points. Under the current structure Florida and DVC are two dirrent entities that have their own rules and definitions to define guidelines for their own purpose.

[gblast123]

I think that all discussions of possible taxation issues should be banned.

We are doing absolutely nothing good for any of the members by bringing up these discussions now!! Whatever we say, theorize or discuss will only work against us at some later time.

Nothing good or positive will come out of these posts, and I would recommend that all posters edit their posts and delete everything that was posted.

Calling Florida and bringing attention to this overlooked "tax" is absolutely idiotic. What does anyone hope to accomplish by telling the taxing authorities that they may have overlooked something?

In the end, these questions and bringing this up onto the Florida Taxation radar cannot result in anything good. At best, they will leave things alone... right now, no-one is requesting that people pay tax on these rentals. So let sleeping pit bulls sleep!!

We are giving the Tax people a number of arguments that they will use in the future in a very negative way. Does anyone here really want to give ammunition to the "Tax enemy"?

People should confine their discussions to PM's or private emails when discussing taxation issues...

In the past I was guilty of such, but I once tried to get an opinion out of a tax attorney friend that I knew quite well.. and what he told me to do is summarized above.... don't give Tax professionals any reasons or justifications to tax you in the future.

That is precisely what everyone previously has been doing.

David

[DVC Mike]

Calling Florida and bringing attention to this overlooked "tax" is absolutely idiotic. What does anyone hope to accomplish by telling the taxing authorities that they may have overlooked something?


While I understand your sentiments on this topic, I don't see how the State of Florida could ever try to collect these taxes. The transactions are numerous person-to-person transactions, like a yard sale. Imagine if the state tried to collect sales tax for every yard/garage sale.

The state lacks the ability to enforce collection, and it would probably cost more to implement an effective enforcement procedure than the tax they would collect.

[greenban]

While I understand your sentiments on this topic, I don't see how the State of Florida could ever try to collect these taxes. The transactions are numerous person-to-person transactions, like a yard sale. Imagine if the state tried to collect sales tax for every yard/garage sale.

The state lacks the ability to enforce collection, and it would probably cost more to implement an effective enforcement procedure than the tax they would collect.

I agree with both gbalst123 and you Mike.

Someone needs to double dog dare the state of FL to come after them!

Sincerely,

WebMasterDoc
Assistant WebMaster of the DISboards

[Daitcher]

I posted the letter as the board requests substantiation of statements when possible.

As to contacting the specific person at the Florida DOR, I never said "permission" - I said "common courtesy" - there is a difference. "Would you mind" is a request for input, not permission and "I'm doing this" is notice so I am not blindsided as I felt when reading this thread. .


I'm just curious if you asked the author of that letter for permission to post it on a public forum?

I guess I don't see how DVC Mike calling for clarification is worse than posting a private letter on a public forum without permision?

I thank you for the time and effort you put in on this contentious topic.


DAVE

[suecait]

Maybe we should replace the word "rent" with "gift". One gifts points/reservations, the other gifts $. Some are just very generous.;)

[bavaria]

We are doing absolutely nothing good for any of the members by bringing up these discussions now!! Whatever we say, theorize or discuss will only work against us at some later time.

Nothing good or positive will come out of these posts, and I would recommend that all posters edit their posts and delete everything that was posted.


I used to be somewhat naive I suppose in my sunny, optimistic manner (That is poking fun at myself, for those who don't understand self-deprecating humour) I was naive when it came to DVC ownership, as I thought that it was a happy group of people, content to enjoy their purchase.

However a few posters on the internet sent me some gentle PMs explaining that such was not the case, and that apparently there are darker motives driving some of the activity we see online. :goodnevil

I will leave it at that, but I do admit that now I read certain threads on the internet and wonder about the motivation behind them. I no longer see every post as intending greater good for the community.

Sorry to sound negative, and hopefully most people are not motivated in such a fashion. (And I am not implying that this was the case here) My more optimistic side would like to think that this thread is intended to provoke discussion aimed at protecting the community.

[carolina_yankee]

Sorry to sound negative, and hopefully most people are not motivated in such a fashion. (And I am not implying that this was the case here) My more optimistic side would like to think that this thread is intended to provoke discussion aimed at protecting the community.
From my conversations with the OP - that was certainly her intent.

BTW - for all concerned on this post since it was picked up again after slipping into the ether - kdzgon's daughter Rebecca went into hospice the day she started this thread, and then passed away that evening, which is why kdzgon hasn't been around, and might also have had some influence on her mood that day.

This is a good topic, and if we continue it, let's focus on the questions raised by the tax division's responses rather than the individuals involved.

[greenban]

From my conversations with the OP - that was certainly her intent.

BTW - for all concerned on this post since it was picked up again after slipping into the ether - kdzgon's daughter Rebecca went into hospice the day she started this thread, and then passed away that evening, which is why kdzgon hasn't been around, and might also have had some influence on her mood that day.

This is a good topic, and if we continue it, let's focus on the questions raised by the tax division's responses rather than the individuals involved.

Kdzgon:

So sorry to hear about your DD Rebecca.

Hugs, Prayers and Love from the greenban family to yours!

-Tony

[Plutofan2]

From my conversations with the OP - that was certainly her intent.

BTW - for all concerned on this post since it was picked up again after slipping into the ether - kdzgon's daughter Rebecca went into hospice the day she started this thread, and then passed away that evening, which is why kdzgon hasn't been around, and might also have had some influence on her mood that day.

This is a good topic, and if we continue it, let's focus on the questions raised by the tax division's responses rather than the individuals involved.

We will keep your family in our prayers.

[kdzgon]

I'm just curious if you asked the author of that letter for permission to post it on a public forum?

I guess I don't see how DVC Mike calling for clarification is worse than posting a private letter on a public forum without permision?

I thank you for the time and effort you put in on this contentious topic.


DAVE


I do not wish to rehash this issue - I am merely responding to your inquiry.

It was a letter from a government agency, and it was not a confidential transmission in any way shape or form, so why would I need permission from the author? They are (among many other responsibilities) in the business of providing tax-related information to the public. Absent a statement to the contrary, there would be no reasonable expectation of said confidentiality.

The differences are DVC Mike was not a party to the correspondence thus (IMO) was wrong to contact the author to discuss my correspondence without at least the courtesy of notice to me, and I am not a public servant - sharing my statement(s) with the representative is not equivalent to my sharing correspondence from a representative charged with the duty of informing the public at large. There are ample avenues for him to obtain an opinion on many potential tax scenarios (including one identical to my hypothetical one) should he so choose. In addition, my "use" of the letter (again, IMO) was misrepresented to the author, hence my response(s).

BTW, just for the record I do not have a problem with DVC Mike (or anyone else here), I just had a problem with the turn of events regarding my letter.

DVC Mike, (although you have never asked/commented/etc) also for the record, I did not reach out to clarify this after the fact because at the time I had greater priorities - we just lost our 34 YO DD to melanoma on June 6 after an intense and devastating six month battle, including a very short hospice stay. As a kicker, less than a week later another daughter shipped out for a 1 yr tour in Iraq. So, please I don't want my "disappearance" here to be taken wrong - it's just that suddenly, for me this thread simply lost any importance it otherwise might have had.

Laurie

[JimP]

we just lost our 34 YO DD to melanoma on June 6 after an intense and devastating six month battle, including a very short hospice stay.

Laurie,

I am so sorry to hear this tragic news. I know first hand the trauma of losing a child. I can't imagine anything worse. I lost my son 3 years ago this week.

Take care of your self... remember to breath.

/Jim

[Daitcher]

I did not reach out to clarify this after the fact because at the time I had greater priorities - we just lost our 34 YO DD to melanoma on June 6 after an intense and devastating six month battle, including a very short hospice stay. As a kicker, less than a week later another daughter shipped out for a 1 yr tour in Iraq. So, please I don't want my "disappearance" here to be taken wrong - it's just that suddenly, for me this thread simply lost any importance it otherwise might have had.

Laurie



Laurie.

You don't owe anyone anything in this thread. Please accept our deepest condolences. I wish there was something we could all say or do to ease this pain. I know that isn't possible but just know the people here and elsewhere really care.


DAVE

[Carol]

Laurie - So sorry for the loss of your beloved daughter. Will keep you all in my prayers and will say an extra for your soldier and all those who serve their country. God Bless, Carol

[dsruton]

Condolences Laurie. Good Luck and I hope your 2nd DD stays safe.
Rudy