Direct Exchange between DVC member

[JimP]

I have a question. Is it common for two DVC members who own at different resorts to do a direct exchange between themselves?

For example: I own at BWV, which is a popular resort. Let's say I wanted a Savanna View at AKV, or a GV at OKW... is it easy to find other owners who are willing to exchange reservations booked at 11 month windows?

OR... do people simply rent-out their home points (or reservations)... and then rent-in their desired location?

/Jim

[tomandrobin]

I have never had a problem renting/transferring/trading my DVC points. Out of everything else we own, DVC is the most fluid and in-demand. I can post an Atlantis week and it might sit for 4 months before I get someone seriously interested. If I list Disney, I will have at least one serious taker within the first day.

Finding someone to do a direct trade (11 month booking at each others home resort) will be harder then a straight rental.

[CRSNDSNY]

Finding someone to do a direct trade (11 month booking at each others home resort) will be harder then a straight rental.
In addition, I'd suspect you'd really have to trust the member you are exchanging with.

I have two friends who are DVC owners and sometimes they'll make these arrangements for each other's 11 month booking at their repsective home resort. My friend owns OKW but loves to go to Super Soap weekend. So she exchanges with our friend who owns BWV so she can stay there closer to the action.

[JimP]

In addition, I'd suspect you'd really have to trust the member you are exchanging with.

I have two friends who are DVC owners and sometimes they'll make these arrangements for each other's 11 month booking at their respective home resort. My friend owns OKW but loves to go to Super Soap weekend. So she exchanges with our friend who owns BWV so she can stay there closer to the action.

This is exactly the type of situation I was considering. Part of me really likes having my points at one resort (for simplicity sake)... but another part of me like to try the various resorts from time to time. I do not think that I am that unique (at least in the particular area LOL).

I was thinking about where I might want to add-on to my BWV contracts. AKV for the savanna view, OKW for the GVs (after we have grandkids maybe), BCV for SAB, BLT (in case I am hungry), Poly Villas (for the relaxation), GFV (for when I'm feeling hoity toity), etc. All of a sudden is starts sounding really scary!!!

So... I was thinking that others must feel like me... and want to trade at the 11 month mark to predictably secure premium reservations. I would think that I would trust most active posters on the forum. In my other timeshare world... we routinely exchange time with our many on line friends.

/Jim

[JimP]

One other thought...

I suppose that I could just rent in whatever # of points I need for a different resort to book my reservations. Am I correct in believing that the "transfered point loophole" is now closed... so that all transfered points now retain their original resort affiliation and use year? So... if I was the rent some OKW points into my BWV account... I could now make reservations at that resort at the 11 month booking window? Does this always happen now... or do they sometimes convert them to your home resort and use year? If they do convert... can you get MS to overide to return them to the original resort/use year?

If the above is per my understanding... I could rent in points that I need... and then rent out a similar number of BWV points to pay for them.

/Jim

[Daitcher]

I have a question. Is it common for two DVC members who own at different resorts to do a direct exchange between themselves?

For example: I own at BWV, which is a popular resort. Let's say I wanted a Savanna View at AKV, or a GV at OKW... is it easy to find other owners who are willing to exchange reservations booked at 11 month windows?

OR... do people simply rent-out their home points (or reservations)... and then rent-in their desired location?

/Jim



Jim,

I see what you are trying to do. You have one assumption that I believe is incorrect for the most part. You seem to believe that BWV is a popular resort. I disagree. The only time that resort is popular is during the F&W Fest. and during Christmas. I can book there anytime I want at 7 months (I won't but I could). So, getting someone who wants BWV for any other time than the two I mention could be tough. Why exchange with you when they can book it themselves?

If you owned a true high demand resort like BCV then you'd be in business. Even then trading is way too much work. You'd have to book something at 11 months and then get someone else to do the same. So you'd have to secure a trade 11 months or more in advance to get this or you'd have to pre-book and hope you could get someone wanting that specific timeframe and then get them to book what you want.

Selling pre-boooked weeks is simple and quite profitable. Geting a trade is tough with DVC. We aren't dealing with weeks here so that in itself is different. We also don't have anything set in advance like a traditinal fixed week system. For instance I have a 2 bedroom, week 3, at the Royal Haciendas (Royal Resorts) in Playa Del Carmen, Mexico. I am using the one bedroom portion then in January of 2009. Because I know the week, room location, room size, etc. finding a trade will be easy. In fact I will likely get to trade that studio for a one bedroom at one of the Cancun Resorts at another time of the year due to the studio features there versus the others, plus the high demand location/resort.

With DVC I'd suggest renting from an owner of the resort you want OR booking your home at 11 months and then trying to switch into your desired resort at 7 months. If you rent from another owner then you could simply rent yours to cover the costs. A transfer would be another option. Have they closed the transfer loophole? NO, but you can get them to honor the home resort status of those transferred points. So get a transfer from an owner of the resort you want and you'll be set, being able to book there at 11 months.

Good luck.:thumbsup:


DAVE

[JimP]

You have one assumption that I believe is incorrect for the most part. You seem to believe that BWV is a popular resort. I disagree. The only time that resort is popular is during the F&W Fest. and during Christmas. I can book there anytime I want at 7 months (I won't but I could).
There is a preference for BW View or Std View. Can you generally get them at 7 months? I suspect that most availability (at least when I tried) was in the prefered non-BW view location. I was able to book Std one time... and I have never received a 7 month reservation for BW view... including wait lists.

/Jim

[JimP]

Geting a trade is tough with DVC. We aren't dealing with weeks here so that in itself is different. We also don't have anything set in advance like a traditinal fixed week system.

Dave,

Are you talking about direct echanges with other resorts (I am not interested in this at all)... or getting an II exchange into DVC?

I have done the later several times now. I typically book 12 nights on points... but try to replace 7 of them with an II exchange because it is MUCH less expensive than using my DVC points.

/Jim

[Daitcher]

Dave,

Are you talking about direct echanges with other resorts (I am not interested in this at all)... or getting an II exchange into DVC?

I have done the later several times now. I typically book 12 nights on points... but try to replace 7 of them with an II exchange because it is MUCH less expensive than using my DVC points.

/Jim



Sorry. I'm simply speaking of trading a DVC reservation at one resort for a DVC reservation at another resort. Is that what you wanted to do?

Trading into DVC isn't hard at all.


DAVE

[Daitcher]

There is a preference for BW View or Std View. Can you generally get them at 7 months? I suspect that most availability (at least when I tried) was in the prefered non-BW view location. I was able to book Std one time... and I have never received a 7 month reservation for BW view... including wait lists.

/Jim



Yes, I've gotten standard view many times inside 7 months at BWV. BW view that is another story, you are correct about that. Question would be, is there enough of a demand for that view at that resort to make a swap of resorts feasible?

I still think it is way too much work and very unlikely to match up.


DAVE

[JimP]

Yes, I've gotten standard view many times inside 7 months at BWV. BW view that is another story, you are correct about that. Question would be, is there enough of a demand for that view at that resort to make a swap of resorts feasible?

I still think it is way too much work and very unlikely to match up.


DAVE

Dave,

So your recommendation would be to rent-in points at the target resort... rent-out BWV points to cover the cost? Or... do it in reverse order? It seems like a logical choice.

Yes... I was discussion DVC-DVC direct trades. I too have traded into DVC several times.

/Jim

[Daitcher]

Dave,

So your recommendation would be to rent-in points at the target resort... rent-out BWV points to cover the cost? Or... do it in reverse order? It seems like a logical choice.

Yes... I was discussion DVC-DVC direct trades. I too have traded into DVC several times.

/Jim



Yes, I'd recommend renting in to get your desired resort and then renting out to cover costs. If done correctly you could ven pocket some excess cash. The only other way I'd suggest, though it has getting harder because of the transfer limit, is to get a transfer from an owner that has points at your desired resort.

Jim, you've been a fantastic addition to this board by the way and I've thouroughly enjoyed your posts. WELCOME!


DAVE

[JimP]

Jim, you've been a fantastic addition to this board by the way and I've thouroughly enjoyed your posts. WELCOME!


Dave,

Thank you for the compliment... and I have enjoyed your's and other's posts as well.

/Jim

[dianeschlicht]

This is exactly the type of situation I was considering. Part of me really likes having my points at one resort (for simplicity sake)... but another part of me like to try the various resorts from time to time. I do not think that I am that unique (at least in the particular area LOL).

I was thinking about where I might want to add-on to my BWV contracts. AKV for the savanna view, OKW for the GVs (after we have grandkids maybe), BCV for SAB, BLT (in case I am hungry), Poly Villas (for the relaxation), GFV (for when I'm feeling hoity toity), etc. All of a sudden is starts sounding really scary!!!

So... I was thinking that others must feel like me... and want to trade at the 11 month mark to predictably secure premium reservations. I would think that I would trust most active posters on the forum. In my other timeshare world... we routinely exchange time with our many on line friends.

/Jim

I totally agree with your thinking, and I have my two bases covered (OKW for GVs and AKV for concierge), but I am finding I maybe don't have enough of one of those! We purposely bought 69 points at AKV by planning a 2 bedroom savanna view in our desired timeframe every 3rd year. Now that I have stayed concierge though, I KNOW I'm going to want that! I also know it's going to be VERY difficult even at 9 AM 11 nonths out. It looks like I'm going to be doing a lot of waitlisting with my OKW points!

[JimP]

I totally agree with your thinking, and I have my two bases covered (OKW for GVs and AKV for concierge), but I am finding I maybe don't have enough of one of those! We purposely bought 69 points at AKV by planning a 2 bedroom savanna view in our desired timeframe every 3rd year. Now that I have stayed concierge though, I KNOW I'm going to want that! I also know it's going to be VERY difficult even at 9 AM 11 nonths out. It looks like I'm going to be doing a lot of waitlisting with my OKW points!

I was surprised by the very positive reaction to the concierge level... and I'll bet that DVC is surprised as well... given the few they provided. It would not surprise me if they offer this more in future resorts.

For me... we have stayed for years at the deluxe hotels... always with a lagoon view, and generally with concierge service. Back then I was able to get them for free (actually much cheaper than free). The kids enjoyed going to the lounge, but DW and I really didn't use them much.

Now when I travel for biz, I often get free upgrades to concierge at Marriott, Westin, W, Ritz Carlton, etc. Generally, I never go to the lounge at all... and I generally keep my DND sign on my door for the duration of my trip because I don't want HK to be in my room.

I consider myself to be a poor target audience for concierge service... to the point that when I saw the higher points for AKV concierge... I just rolled my eyes. However... like I said, I am surprised at the very positive reception by members... so I obviously have to re-classify myself as a "demographic out-lier" on this particular amenity. Clearly... if I was in the senior management of DVC, I would be apologizing to my boss for underestimating the demand!

/Jim

[Ron Bleier]

Can you transfer 200 points to someone who has BCV as their home resort and have them book a weeks stay for you at the 11 month window? As long as you could trust them.

[Daitcher]

Can you transfer 200 points to someone who has BCV as their home resort and have them book a weeks stay for you at the 11 month window? As long as you could trust them.



NO.

Transferred points should retain their home resort status. So, if you own SSR and transfer 200 points to an owner of BCV those 200 points are still SSR points. If you want BCV at 11 months then either buy BCV points OR rent some from an owner of that resort.

Good luck!


DAVE

[gblast123]

Jim,

I have several people whom I trust and with who we have a loose association. We swap point but we do keep track of the difference in MF. AK has much higher MF than SSR.

I haven't had a problem up to now (it is only about 4 people) and we have a mutually assured cancellation policy which insures a degree of trust. (If you cancel my res, I will cancel yours).

I agree that you should know people well before you engage in this type of venture. If you wish to join our group, just PM me.

David

[spiceycat]

okay though the new rules say you can transfer points out or in once each year.

so if they transfer to you - you can't transfer to them.

or am I missing something?

renting to them, and they to you - is less confusing - at least to me.

[tomandrobin]

okay though the new rules say you can transfer points out or in once each year.

Correct

so if they transfer to you - you can't transfer to them.

Correct again.

or am I missing something?

Nope, you understand it.

renting to them, and they to you - is less confusing - at least to me.

Renting requires more work, then transferring points.

One other point. You can bank transferred points, but you can not transfer banked points.

[BWV Dreamin]

Selling pre-boooked weeks is simple and quite profitable.
DAVE

They have made changes at MS now where you must have the renters names (all of them) at the time of booking. They aren't letting you make the ressie and go back and change it. Some have persisted, and have gotten the changes made, but they are really enforcing the change now. I think they are trying to deter the commercial renting.

[tomandrobin]

I have not run into a problem with MS and name changes. We had booked three studios for our NYE trip. They were put on our name. We actually were not sure who was going to use the other rooms, but we knew we needed them. The first studio is mine, so no changes needed. The second studio is going to our oldest, now that he is settled in his new job he can commit to going. We called and changed the reservation to his name two weeks ago. The third studio is going to a friend, and again there was no problem with changing the reservation into thier names last week.

[BWV Dreamin]

I have not run into a problem with MS and name changes. We had booked three studios for our NYE trip. They were put on our name. We actually were not sure who was going to use the other rooms, but we knew we needed them. The first studio is mine, so no changes needed. The second studio is going to our oldest, now that he is settled in his new job he can commit to going. We called and changed the reservation to his name two weeks ago. The third studio is going to a friend, and again there was no problem with changing the reservation into thier names last week.

Thats good to hear, but you may have just been lucky. Many have posted (on the other side!) that MS is demanding the renter's names, or they have to call back to make the ressie when they have them.

[tomandrobin]

Maybe they are trying to book four rooms at a time, for the same week. That would make sense to me.

[BWV Dreamin]

Ok Jim P.!!! I think you started something!!:D

[Daitcher]

They have made changes at MS now where you must have the renters names (all of them) at the time of booking. They aren't letting you make the ressie and go back and change it. Some have persisted, and have gotten the changes made, but they are really enforcing the change now. I think they are trying to deter the commercial renting.



This is not true. You can change reservation names a hundred times if you so choose. DVC cannot restrict this or stop this despite whatever you might have heard.

Anyone who has this happen, hang up, call back and get another MS agent. If that doesn't work get a supervisor.

As far a DVC stopping commercial renting..... they cannot legally. If they could they would have it done it by now. They have not and I assure you they won't be able to. We have a legal right to rent our interest in DVC.


DAVE

[Daitcher]

Thats good to hear, but you may have just been lucky. Many have posted (on the other side!) that MS is demanding the renter's names, or they have to call back to make the ressie when they have them.



Sure, give anyone's name including your own. When the rental is secured, call back and change the names. Not that tough.


DAVE

[spiceycat]

I think if you rent more than 20 times - then DVC stops it.

if you rent less than 20 times in one year - so far DVC is okay with it.

so 19 renters is okay, 21 they will stop you.

DVC definitely says no commerical renters - they consider 20 the cut off.

under 20 - you are not a commerical renter

over 20 - you are.

[Daitcher]

I think if you rent more than 20 times - then DVC stops it.

if you rent less than 20 times in one year - so far DVC is okay with it.

so 19 renters is okay, 21 they will stop you.

DVC definitely says no commerical renters - they consider 20 the cut off.

under 20 - you are not a commerical renter

over 20 - you are.



You are correct, at least from the letter I've received from DVC and from recent communications.

BUT I still think they are bluffing. My attorney maintains that DVC is powerless to stop this. IF I wanted to rent points I would do so without fear of DVC. To date not one person I'm aware of has been stopped from renting out points, NOBODY. Believe me, if it had happened we would have read all about it on the message boards. I haven't even read a fabrictaion of this happening. All that has happened is that DVC has requested some EBay listings be removed. That was strictly due to copyright infringement not becasue they were renting out points. Right now we could all find rentals there. It hasn't stopped and it won't.


DAVE

[JimP]

I think if you rent more than 20 times - then DVC stops it.

if you rent less than 20 times in one year - so far DVC is okay with it.

so 19 renters is okay, 21 they will stop you.

DVC definitely says no commerical renters - they consider 20 the cut off.

under 20 - you are not a commerical renter

over 20 - you are.

I believe the determining factor is # of reservations... not number of renters. Hence.... if you made, and then later cancelled 21 reservastions... then your account would be flagged even if you never consumed a single point in a single reservation.

Does anyone know if you change the name on a reservation if it counts against the 20... or is it still the same resrevation. I suspect that such modifications to a reservation do not increment the count of new reservations.

I also assume the same is true with day-by-day... all one reservation.

/Jim

[BWV Dreamin]

This is not true. You can change reservation names a hundred times if you so choose. DVC cannot restrict this or stop this despite whatever you might have heard.

Anyone who has this happen, hang up, call back and get another MS agent. If that doesn't work get a supervisor.

As far a DVC stopping commercial renting..... they cannot legally. If they could they would have it done it by now. They have not and I assure you they won't be able to. We have a legal right to rent our interest in DVC.


DAVE

Not trying to argue here Dave, but this change just started. I personally have not tested this (I don't rent out), but this is brand new, and it has definitely happened. Now because this just started, maybe all the CM's are not aware, forgetting, the owner is being persistent, what ever. Will it continue?Don't know. If enough people complain, maybe not. Don't get me wrong. I am not in favor of this at all. Just passing on what others have experienced.

[Daitcher]

Not trying to argue here Dave, but this change just started. I personally have not tested this (I don't rent out), but this is brand new, and it has definitely happened. Now because this just started, maybe all the CM's are not aware, forgetting, the owner is being persistent, what ever. Will it continue?Don't know. If enough people complain, maybe not. Don't get me wrong. I am not in favor of this at all. Just passing on what others have experienced.



No problem arguing is good if it gets to the facts.

Fact is this change is not new. It doesn't exist. This was reported way back when by Greenban. He later was told that this is NOT going to happen, not now not ever. They cannot limit name changes and like I said before if it happens to you hang up and call back. If that doesn't work get a MS supervisor on the phone.


DAVE

[JimP]

No problem arguing is good if it gets to the facts.

Fact is this change is not new. It doesn't exist. This was reported way back when by Greenban. He later was told that this is NOT going to happen, not now not ever. They cannot limit name changes and like I said before if it happens to you hang up and call back. If that doesn't work get a MS supervisor on the phone.


DAVE

I do not believe there is any possible way that they could enforce this. I agree with Dave here.. it will never happen. We have a right to use our property period.

/Jim