Traveling Every Three Years

[JimP]

This post is inspired by some feedback that was given earlier to my friend Lynn(SoCalGal) who is in the process of buying 175 pts at AKV... with the intention of making a trip to WDW every 3 years.

One comment that she received (including from me) is that with banking and borrowing... you can use 3 years of points for a single stay. This is obviously true... but then the common follow-on statement is that you can then make trips every three years.

I think there is a flaw with this advice. Let's say that she banks her new 2008 points into 2009, and borrows most of her 2010 points into 2009... giving her up to 525 points to use for an approximate two week 2009 trip in a 2BR unit.

The problem that I see is that the reservation is unlikely to be exactly 525 points. So if we assume that she has left over 2010 points that she does not borrow... then the most that those can banked is to 2011. Hence... to use those points, she would need to make her next trip after 2 years (2011)... rather than waiting for 3 years (2012).

One solution would be to rent the excess 2010 points out... or to rent-in enough 2009 points to have just enough for the reservation. However... with the once/year restriction (in or out)... she may find it difficult to find people who want to "waste" that one transfer on a small number of points.

What would you suggest in this situation? Am I correct that the common advise of "vacation every 3 years" is somewhat over stated?

Also... for simplicity sake... I have ignored the corner case where you can use 4 years worth of points if you perfectly time a reservation to span a use year boundary.

/Jim

[7swans]

We have 150 points and a large family, your friends plans for a family vacation every 3 years are what we have in mind as well.

We had a few points left over after our initial trip, enough for 2 nights in a studio I think it was, we rented enough points from Daddio to add a third, DH & I went on a short just the two of us trip. (renting points from Daddio worked out quite well for us BTW!)

I think the same scenario would also work in reverse, by renting your small number of points to David.

[carolina_yankee]

In premise, you're right. Given all the variables of the cost of a unit (which resort, which time of year, which view), it would be very difficult to purchase the exact number of points needed for a vacation every 3 years.

Obviously, a contract is going to be an aggregate of your vacation plans. How can you know you'll use a 2 BR after 3 years during a specific season? Are any of our lives and traveling companions stable enough to justify that over the course of a 50 year contract? Is there a chance we would want to try another resort? Who knows what DVC units will be available 10 years down the road after we've had 3 stays in AKV. Plus, it helps to have a few extra points for wiggle room in case the charts are adjusted.

Even then, my response would socalgal is buying too few points for her goals. Assuming she wants a 2 BR savannah view at AKV every three years, the points charts (http://www.mouseowners.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=189&Itemid=157) break out this way:

Adventure: 270 week
Choice: 295
Dream: 315
Magic: 360
Premier 473

525 points would get you 1 full week plus four weeknights for 520 points with 5 points left over.

She would need a 180 point contract to do exactly 2 weeks every 3 years in Adventure season with no leftovers.

The best bet when buying points is to probably buy what you would need for a typical vacation pattern, and then recognize that you can rent, transfer, or adjust vacation patterns to use up remaining points.

If you're happy with a set week style of vacation, like a traditional time share, then you could do it. Say, 2 weeks every October for Food & Wine. But still, each resort has a different point structure, so I think the caveat is a wise one - buy enough to vacation every 3 years, but be aware you will have to do some point managing your adjust your vacation habits.

This scheme would probably work well for a 3 year/2 year vacation pattern, though.

Dirk

[AZDVC]

When you borrow you just need to borrow as many points as you need, you don't borrow the whole years worth. So she may not need to sell any extra points. The remaining points in the future use year stay in that use year until you borrow or it becomes that use year.
The other problem is wanting to go much more often than every 3 years!
I skipped one year and I'm hanging out on MO all the time!
Patsy

[JimP]

When you borrow you just need to borrow as many points as you need, you don't borrow the whole years worth. So she may not need to sell any extra points. The remaining points in the future use year stay in that use year until you borrow or it becomes that use year.
Patsy,

I think you missed a key point to my argument. I agree that she would not have to borrow all of her 2010 points in the example where she is traveling in 2009. However... those 2010 points could only be banked one year to 2011. In her case... she only wants to travel every 3 years... but this would give her points that she needs to use in 2011 (2 years vs 3).

Sorry that I was not clear enough. I went back and edited paragraph 3 to make it less confusing.

/Jim

[JimP]

In premise, you're right. Given all the variables of the cost of a unit (which resort, which time of year, which view), it would be very difficult to purchase the exact number of points needed for a vacation every 3 years.

Dirk,

Thanks for validating that my thought process is correct :) I was pretty sure that I was thinking clearly last night.

Assuming she wants a 2 BR savannah view at AKV every three years, the points charts (http://www.mouseowners.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=189&Itemid=157) break out this way:

Adventure: 270 week
Choice: 295
Dream: 315
Magic: 360
Premier 473

525 points would get you 1 full week plus four weeknights for 520 points with 5 points left over.

She would need a 180 point contract to do exactly 2 weeks every 3 years in Adventure season with no leftovers.

My two week example was "approximate". Generally, if I am booking a 2 week trip with points... it will only be 13 nights long... with the original Sat in a value resort... followed by the 12 days (10 weekdays... and only the 2 middle weekends) in the condo.

There is one other complication... I'll seperate that into a different reply so this one does not become too confusing.

/Jim

[JimP]

Here is the other complication I hinted at in the previous post. I separated it out because I think long posts lose focus.

I am pretty certain that Lynn will want to do the same as us... that is use much cheaper timeshares to trade into DVC via II. The problem is that these exchanges seldom happen right at the 11 month window. In fact... I have not received one that early yet.

What I do is:

1) Start an II exchange request for my desired travel dates
2) Book the entire two week duration at my home resort at 11 months. (I don't borrow)
3) Book FF airline tickets for my trip
4) At 7 months... switch resorts if desirable and available
5) When/IF the II exchange comes through... cancel the duplicate days off of my DVC reservation.
6) Bank any extra points saved in step #5.

The problem that I see in Lynn's case is that in order to accomplish step #2... she will need to bank and borrow... which means that she will be committed to consume about 2/3 of the points for that trip. However... an II exchange would save over 50% of the points of the 12 day trip. Hence... it will be difficult to utilize inbound II exchanges.

Since inbound II exchanges are MUCH less expensive than using DVC points... there is a lost opportunity here. The only solutions that I can think of are:

1) Only use a max of 2 years of points on each reservation... banking, but never borrowiing... and going every 2 years.

2) If an inbound II exchange is granted... then to rent out the freed points points for cash.

/Jim

[JimP]

The only solutions that I can think of are:

1) Only use a max of 2 years of points on each reservation... banking, but never borrowiing... and going every 2 years.

2) If an inbound II exchange is granted... then to rent out the freed points points for cash.

/Jim


OK... now I am NOT thinking clearly. Option #1 (the one we use) only works if you take a trip every year!

/Jim

[dmaxdmax]

Be careful that you don't paint yourself into a corner. For example, we had our trip plans all set for last year (just hotel reservations etc - no timeshares) when the phone rang. A old college friend called to say she had a beach house in Oahu that was beyond stunning. She had it for six months and there was a bedroom with our name on it. We had never been to Hawaii so we cancelled our other plans and spent 2 amazing weeks in paradise.

My point is that you never know when you may have an opportunity to do something that messes up a carefully orchestrated plan.

[SoCalGal]

Jim, thanks for starting this thread for me. I do see the problems. I think that the only time this may be a big problem for me is when I plan large family trips like the one we want next year. I think it will entail renting some credits. I haven't done a search yet but it look like I really need to check out Daddio.

I think that what we'll mostly do is to wait for an exchange during a slower time at WDW, then use some of our points to add to that week, either in the same resort or a different one. I'm sure that sometimes we'll go every 2 years, but either just the 2 of us or bring one of our grown kids and their family.

I am already thinking though of buying another 25 - 50 points, but maybe not this year.

[JimP]

I am already thinking though of buying another 25 - 50 points, but maybe not this year.
Lynn,

Take two asprin and call me in the morning. The disease is setting in too quickly.

/Jim

[rlcarmichael]

You're thinking too much. You'll stress out and have a heart attack. (If you die can I have your points? ;)) Chances are that you'll NEVER get the points to workout EXACTLY.

Bank ahead a year. During the 2nd year use all of the 1st year and borrow what you need from the 3rd.

I always use more than I have in one year so I'm borrowing from the next year. If you need, you can rent extra points at $10-13 per point which is still WAY below even the member "cash" rate.

Buying extra is REAL easy. You can get as few as 25 direct from DVC cash or 50 financed. You get the same use year.

[DVCerLee]

We go every three years. We bought in 2006, banked the points, in 2007 we made our ressies, used 2007's and 2008's points. Well, all but ONE POINT. It took some great fun planning how to use every point possible. We were at WDW for two weeks, and at DL hotel for one night.

Sadly, we won't be ablt to go back until after August of 2010.:boohoohoo:boohoohoo:boohoohoo

Still, for us and our budget, it works. I am so thankful. We are a family of five and need the space we can get with DVC.

[JimP]

You're thinking too much. You'll stress out and have a heart attack. (If you die can I have your points? ;)) Chances are that you'll NEVER get the points to workout EXACTLY.

Bank ahead a year. During the 2nd year use all of the 1st year and borrow what you need from the 3rd.

I always use more than I have in one year so I'm borrowing from the next year. If you need, you can rent extra points at $10-13 per point which is still WAY below even the member "cash" rate.

Buying extra is REAL easy. You can get as few as 25 direct from DVC cash or 50 financed. You get the same use year.
Sorry... the points are already spoken for. :) (but good try!)

I understand that the points will never work out exactly. That is not the issue. The problem I am trying to point out is that people often say that with banking and borrowing you can use 3 years of points (which is true)... but then it is common to follow on that by doing so... you can travel every 3 years. I think that is overstated. The only way that works is if you:

1) Own the exact number of points (unlikely)
2) Rent points in or out
3) Lose points

In our case... we plan to go every year... but in reality we have been going 2 or 3 times per year... so it certainly is NOT an issue for us. I had never even thought about this before because it really does not apply to me... but I thought about the issues when I started giving advice to my friend SoCalGal... and realized that there was a flaw in the commonly reported usage.

/Jim