Renting out Your points a couple of questions

[paulrae]

hi everyone

We are UK based owners, and I was wondering how we go about renting out our points, we may and I say may not go 2009, so I wondered if we were to rent them out, roughly how to go about it

Any help would be good

[bababear]

Come on people jump on this thread as Mel is thinking about renting points or having some transfered and very scared of the unknown.
Comments ???? Thoughts???

Hugs Mel

[DVC Mike]

The owner's biggest risks are a renter cancelling their plans with 31 days of arrival, at which point they become holding points and are difficult to use. You should always get a reservation paid in full well before the 31 day mark -- probably 60 days before check-in.

Another issue is making a reservation with points in the last 4 months of your UY. Again, if the renter cancels their plans, you may be unable to bank your points. Same thing goes for renting banked points.

Finally, you could be held accountable by Disney if the renter damages the DVC villa.

I strongly recommend you use a rental contract, and ensure your renter understands how "renting points" is different than a hotel reservation. Some of these points may be found in the What do I need to know to "rent points" from a DVC member?.

[paulrae]

Thanks for the info Mike

[DVC Mike]

Here is a sample rental agreement. This is not legal advice and you should consult a qualified lawyer if you wish to ensure the legal intent of the agreement.

DVC Rental Agreement

This Agreement is made the __ day of ______, 200x by and between _________ (“Member”) and ______ (“Renter”) with the following Terms and Conditions:

1. Member agrees to use his Disney Vacation Club (DVC) points to provide a reservation for Renter at:
________ Villa - ___ bedroom villa to arrive on _________, 200x and depart on __________, 200x (____ points);

2. The reservations will be rented at the rate of $____________(___ points @ $__/pt plus fees) payable via money order, cashier's check or personal check;

3. Member will confirm availability with DVC Member Services and make a Reservation in Renter’s name. At this time Member will provide the Disney Vacation Club confirmation number to Renter. Upon receipt of written confirmation from DVC (this takes from seven to ten days), Member will mail the confirmation notice to Renter;

3. A deposit of 20%, plus exchange fees (if any), will be due within 10 days of the receipt of a printed confirmation (or copy) from Disney in the name of Renter. This deposit is non-refundable. The remaining balance of 80% of the payment will be due no later than due 60 days prior to the arrival date.

3. If payment is not received as agreed or returned for “insufficient funds”, the reservation shall be cancelled and any deposit and exchange fees (if any) forfeited;

4. All funds received are NON-REFUNDABLE. Member will always retain control over the reservation. Renter may not sub-lease to a third party.

This is an agreement to rent points that represent accommodations ONLY. There are no ticket media, transportation, meals/meal plans, transfers, insurance, or other items included. Such items and any additional costs therein are not included in the above referenced rate. Further, Renter understands that there is a not daily housekeeping service at DVC resorts. Additions such as the Disney Dining Plan (DDP) and Magical Express will have to be made on behalf of Renter through DVC by the Member. Renter will pay for the Disney Dining Plan during check-in at the resort. Renter may make their own dining reservations through the Disney dining number. Park tickets cannot be purchased through Member. Renter can purchase tickets on their own.

In addition to payment for points, Renter is responsible for any exchange fees assessed for non-DVC resort accommodations in the booking or re-booking of the reservation and are non-refundable.

Renter will email Member with the first and last names and ages of each person staying in the villa. Any special requests regarding room location, view and/or amenities will be made for the Renter by Member at the time of making the reservation but CANNOT be guaranteed.

In the event that the Renter wishes to change the reservation, Member will make reasonable efforts to assist Renter to make such changes. Renter should be aware that changes to the reservation may not be possible because of limited room availability. Any changes must take place on or before _________, 2008 and result in travel being completed by_______, 2008 as that is when the points will expire. Renter shall be responsible for 100% of any additional charges assessed or costs incurred to accommodate Renter’s changes. Payment for these changes shall be due upon e-mail or fax notice from Member. Confirmation of payment for such changes is required within 5 business days of such notice or reservation shall be cancelled.

Renter agrees to abide by all rules of the resort involving use of the facilities and to abide by all rules and policies of the Disney Vacation Club (DVC). Pets are not permitted to stay at DVC Resorts, except for service animals as defined by the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Renter understands that all DVC resorts are totally smoke free including the guest rooms, resort buildings, patios and balconies.

Renter agrees to provide the Resort with an acceptable credit card upon check-in for incidentals and any other charges imposed by the Resort connected to Renter’s stay at and use of the Resort.

Renter agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the Member due to any actions taken by Renter, Renter’s named party and/or Renter’s guests during the execution of the reservation.

Renter agrees to be responsible for any unpaid charges or damages to the unit rented, including all contents and improvements, Disney Vacation Club property and Disney property during his/her stay that are assessed against Member. Any unpaid charges or damages to the room, including all contents and improvements, DVC property and Disney property during his/her stay that are assessed against Member or his membership shall be reimbursed to Member by Renter within 10 business days of notice to Renter. Sending a fax or e-mail copy of a DVC or other Walt Disney Company communication assessing the charges or damages shall satisfy notice to Renter.

Any modifications of this Agreement are unenforceable unless in writing and signed by both the Member and Renter. This Agreement shall be governed under and interpreted and enforced in accordance with the laws of the State of XXXXX.

Reservation Summary
Reservation number (s):
Resort (s):
Additional Requests: DDP (extra expense payable at time of check-in) and Magical Express
Rate: $
Paid: $

Agreed and accepted on the date first shown above.


__________________ _____________________
(Member) (Renter)

[paulrae]

Wow very nice Mike cheers

[Hallfamily4]

Mike, I am always amazed at your Disney knowledge. This board is very lucky to have you as a member/contributor
Thanks!

[bababear]

Thanks Mike,,seems like alot of trust on both parties is needed. I've seen Daddio post on M.O and was wondering if anyone here could comment on his services or if that would be ok with him do do so? I've viewed his web site and it seems well put together and legit.

Thanks
Mel

[gblast123]

If you take a look at my rental post, it should cover everything.

Read it carefully, and just follow it like a cookbook.

There is also a contract, if you scroll down. It is slightly different than Mike's, but both are equally acceptable.

http://www.mouseowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14121

It is very important, as a owner, to make sure that the renter understands that once you make the reservation, there is no going back, no changes to the date, size, and resort. It is like a discount airline reservation, no cancellations, refunds, etc.

However, I try and work with renters as I am interested in a long term rental relationship with them.

I hope this helps.

Any questions, email or call me. I am retired so anytime is good to call.

If you are going to rent to people in the US, it pays to get skype, which will give you a US tel number for about $30-40 per YEAR!!

Skype is otherwise free, www.skype.com


David
646-808-0737
gblast123@yahoo.com

[gblast123]

Thanks Mike,,seems like alot of trust on both parties is needed. I've seen Daddio post on M.O and was wondering if anyone here could comment on his services or if that would be ok with him do do so? I've viewed his web site and it seems well put together and legit.

Thanks
Mel

I knew him since the time he first started several years ago. He is really nice guy and extraordinarily honest.

I would have no hesitation about using him, if I was new or inexperienced.

David

[DVC Mike]

Thanks Mike,,seems like alot of trust on both parties is needed. I've seen Daddio post on M.O and was wondering if anyone here could comment on his services or if that would be ok with him do do so? I've viewed his web site and it seems well put together and legit.


Daddio is certainly an enterprising individual. He has setup a business that offers a service – acting as an intermediary between renters and DVC members.

For the renter, he offers a service that is skilled in renting and aware of the pitfalls, which should offer a level of comfort to a potential renter -- especially when compared to renting points from an inexperienced DVC owner renting their points the very first time. Of course, the renter will pay more by renting through a third party instead of direct from a DVC member.

For the DVC member who is either inexperienced in renting or doesn’t like the "hassle" of having to rent out their own points, they can use this service to have someone handle it for them. Of course, the DVC member will make less money by utilizing this service, as it is a business that takes its cut of the fee the renter is paying. I’ve also heard you must make Daddio an “associate member” on your DVC contract, which would make me a bit uncomfortable, personally speaking.

I myself have never utilized Daddio’s service, so I cannot recommend it myself. However, I haven't heard any negative posts regarding his service, so his customers are apparently satisfied. If there are people out there unhappy with his service, I haven't heard from any of them!

The only negative comments I hear are from some members on the DIS boards that are against all forms of renting points, and Daddio has been unfortunately criticized as an "enabler" of this activity.

[DVC Mike]

If you take a look at my rental post, it should cover everything.


The only thing that caught my eye in your contract was this:


In the event that Renter is not able to utilize the reservation, Renter may choose to sell, transfer and/or assign this reservation to another person.


I think this is risky, as you don't have a contract with the person who your reservation has been sublet to. I would rather state that the renter may not sub-lease to a third party, as it's a bit safer.

Of course, David is an experenced renter and I'm not!

[Carol]

I think the "contracts" discussed here are more like "Memorandums of understanding".

If something goes wrong, it would virtually always be more expensive to enforce the contract than it would be worth.

The real value of the contracts are making sure that both parties have the same understanding of the process and what will happen if something doesn't go as planned.

Contracts are also useful to the renter if he/she wants to get trip insurance. I believe the contract must clearly state that the rental is nonrefundable for the trip to qualify for insurance.

[DVC Mike]

I think the "contracts" discussed here are more like "Memorandums of understanding".

If something goes wrong, it would virtually always be more expensive to enforce the contract than it would be worth.

The real value of the contracts are making sure that both parties have the same understanding of the process and what will happen if something doesn't go as planned.

Contracts are also useful to the renter if he/she wants to get trip insurance. I believe the contract must clearly state that the rental is nonrefundable for the trip to qualify for insurance.

Yep. Most problematic DVC rentals are usually due to misunderstandings between the DVC owner and the renter. A "contract" or "agreement" will spell everything out and hopefully reduce common misunderstandings -- leading to both parties being satisfied with the transaction!

[robruth]

We just used Daddio's service to rent out points that we were not going to be able to use. I would recommend it.

He has it streamlined so that it is a very easy process. Yes, you could potentially receive a few more $$$ doing it yourself, but you have to ask if it is worth the hassle. My total time commitment was less than 20 minutes and the points were rented out within about a week.

[Noreendisfourdisfour]

I used his service too. I was incredibly uncomfortable putting him as an associate on my membership. I must admit I check about once a week to make sure there has been no activity with my points. Of course it's been fine. I would recommend his service.

[paulrae]

Thanks for all the comments...gives me loads to think about ..in case we do not have a vacation next year

[gblast123]

The only thing that caught my eye in your contract was this:



I think this is risky, as you don't have a contract with the person who your reservation has been sublet to. I would rather state that the renter may not sub-lease to a third party, as it's a bit safer.

Of course, David is an experenced renter and I'm not!

Mike,

You are extemely knowledgable and I would not contradict you, easily.

That is an unusual provision and it is put there for a reason. As long as I have been paid for my points, what difference is there if the renter goes out and makes more money or rents it to some unsavory individuals?

To me, the points are gone and the renter has paid for it. They are his points and his property.

Safety is a relative thing. If you want to be absolutely safe, don't rent out points. Use them for cruises, give them to relatives, etc.,

However, my philosophy is that you have to work with the people that you rent to. They are trusting you with their money and their plans for a vacation, 90%, they are doing this for their kids!!

I have not turned my back on these people and I have taken the position that if I can help them prevent a monetary loss, I will do so.

It is far easier for someone like me to rent out points than someone who has never rented before.

I have a renter who, for unforeseen circumstances, cannot go on her vacation. I am listing her week and hope to make a little extra money for her even though she can't go.

David

[DVC Mike]

That is an unusual provision and it is put there for a reason. As long as I have been paid for my points, what difference is there if the renter goes out and makes more money or rents it to some unsavory individuals?

To me, the points are gone and the renter has paid for it. They are his points and his property.

Safety is a relative thing. If you want to be absolutely safe, don't rent out points. Use them for cruises, give them to relatives, etc.,

However, my philosophy is that you have to work with the people that you rent to. They are trusting you with their money and their plans for a vacation, 90%, they are doing this for their kids!!

I have not turned my back on these people and I have taken the position that if I can help them prevent a monetary loss, I will do so.

It is far easier for someone like me to rent out points than someone who has never rented before.

I have a renter who, for unforeseen circumstances, cannot go on her vacation. I am listing her week and hope to make a little extra money for her even though she can't go.

David

That's a very gracious and accomodating position, but I don't think I could personally be that accomodating.

For me, if the renter discovered they couldn't take the vacation but they had someone who was willing to take over the reservation, and that person was acceptable to me, and they signed the same agreement, then that would be OK.

I just wouldn't put in the contract that the renter "may choose to sell, transfer and/or assign this reservation to another person" -- without the member's approval.

[AFMom]

I've both rented and transfered points - and I would say if you are truly uncomfortable dealing with renting - an easy fix would be to transfer your points to another member. The points are out of your hands, and it's quick and painless!

[administrator]

Here at MO, we simply provide a "classified ads" space in which people can attempt to engage in rental and trade transactions.

For legal reasons, we can't provide or permit feedback about rental transactions to be given in public threads.

I'd recommend that those people who wish to rent points do a search (see the search function near the top of the page) on the specific member in whom they are interested, check on his/her postings on our site and his/her length and type of involvement in our community. That should give a pretty good indication of what's going on, whether the person is a longtime member, etc.

In addition, many DVC members can provide references (from those people who have rented points from them in the past); it is recommended that potential renters make use of that offer, if it's made available to them. (For example, usernames can be provided and PMs can be used.)

Thanks for your cooperation.