Which way should I go????

[Magic Fanatic]

We just returned from the Disney Cruise on Saturday April 12. While we were on board we signed up for Saratoga Springs. 200 points at $94.00/point (there was a $10.00/point discount. There was also a $500.00 ships credit that we ended you applying to the down payment. The contract month would be be June 2008 and the also were including the 2007 points with Disney paying those dues. We were happy with this and signed.

Now, since we returned home, I have do a little research and a couple of things concern me. The first is the lay out of the studio rooms. It looks as though all of the different Villa's offer this set up with one bed and a sleeper sofa. My kids are at the age now (13 and 8) that a sleeper sofa simply would not work. The fighting would be continuous.

My second concern is around booking away from Disney. I have scanned several other boards such as this one and cannot get a good feel for how others others use the Passport Collection or the Concierge Collection. Is it difficult to book? Do you have to plane years in advance...etc.

I have now gone back and researched the different Villa's and learned that Old Key West has two queen beds in their studio's so that would address my first problem. In addition someone was kind enough to refer me to one of the resale companies and I have found an opportunity to purchase 250 pts at Old Key West for $71/point with the full 250 available right now and another 250 pts in April 2009.

My final question is why would I not by the resale? Is there anything I am missing? I am gaining 50 pts and spending $650.00 less. The only thing that I can see that I am giving up is the shorter contract. As far as the resorts go, I know Key West is the oldest property, but I have been told that it has been well maintainted. I would appreciate any feed back as the document arrived via fed ex today and I need to make some decisions.

[4t'sdisneystyle]

oLD kEY wEST - fANTASTIC ROOMS...VERY LARGE!
wE STAYED IN A 2 BR AND HAVE SEEN THE 1 BEDROOM AS WELL....
PERFECT...i DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE!
MY FAMILY SIZE 6...2 GROWN TEENAGERS, 2 GIRSL AGE 8, HUSBAND & I..
wE ALSO OPTED FOR THE 2 BEDROOM WHEN WE INVITED OUR NEIGHBORS
TO JOIN US...TOTAL 8 - PLENTY OF ROOM AND A LARGE PATIO FOR LATE NIGHT
DRINKS, EARLY MORNING COFFEE AND KIDS CRAFTS....hOPE THIS IS HELPFUL!
PS- wE LOVE THE Disney vacation club and it's point flexibility!:computerg

[7swans]

Old Key West studios have not two rooms, but two queen beds per studio.

We bought straight from Disney, but if we had known then what we know now, we probably would have purchased a Beach Club contract resale.

That said Saratoga Springs is lovely, and we really do enjoy it there. You can always add an air mattress on the floor to give your kids some room & keep the peace.

Booking away from Disney is not a very efficient use of points.

[grumpy]

My advice is to buy where you want to stay. As DVC grows the 11 month window at your home resort is very important.

[Michelle1503]

Old Key West is a great resort, it has the largest rooms. But the Beach Club also has two queen beds, at least in the second bedroom of a 2BR. I guess the difference is resale Disney has to approve the price and if they don't, they but it out from under you (to keep the value) and you don't get additional incentives, like the $500. So when you think about it, you aren't spending an extra $650, only $150.00.

As far you getting more points... don't know what to say about that. Concierge collection and World Passport are not hard to book at all. You call member services and it's as easy as booking Disney, except you have to pay a transaction fee of $95.00. Not to worry, surely you will enjoy your DVC as much as we all do!
:dancingba

[kirotank]

I also put a deposit down a contract last Thursday while in WDW, and since have been arguing which way I should actually go (only have 10 days). I'm sure this type of thread is digging old dirt, but I would love to hear some of the more analytical opinions (you know who you are)! If some of the more experienced DVC'ers were buying fresh, and based a purchase first on emotion and than on analysis of current and future knowledge of DVC, where and what would you buy?

[OttawaWendy]

Well let me point out some obvious differences between OKW and SSR:
1) the 11 month booking window (might be important, might not - probably depends on when you want to travel - if you are travelling in busy times, it matters more).
2) the maintenance fees have (to date) been higher per point for OKW - check it out HERE (http://www.mouseowners.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=208&Itemid=102). I'm not sure if that is because of something to do with their design (some properties are more expensive to maintain) or if it is just their age (and SSR will be similar at a similar stage of life).
3) You get 12 extra years of points at SSR. So you are really buying 6800 total points at OKW or 9200 points at SSR for a 200-point contract.

That last point may not seem important, but it will be. Whether or not you intend to use the points in 2042 to 2054, it will impact on the resale value of those points when you do want to sell.

We were able to buy our contract outright, so no borrowing costs, which made our analysis easier. We figured that we bought our points, in 2005 dollars, at about $1.67 per point (for each and every year). We then added on our expected maintenance fees for each and every year, with an assumed rate of increase for maintenance. When we did this analysis, it became apparent to us that at the then-available rates, we were getting a great deal by buying the SSR contract with the extra 12 years. We did buy resale because we were able to get a better deal.

We compared that, FYI, to the cost of staying in value resorts, based on an assumed yearly percentage increase in the cost of those accommodations. (I am simplifying this a bit because DW was the one who created these spreadsheets). There is no question DVC is worth it if you can plan and take advantage of your ownership. It isn't a good system if you are bad at planning and will let points lapse.


Now, out of deference to the "buy where you intend to stay" crowd, I will say that SSR is not our favourite resort but we are willing to stay there and enjoy it. We actually like staying in lots of different places. So we often book SSR at 11 months, and then see what's available at 7 months. This wouldn't work if we didn't like SSR, or we were always booking at the last minute (that's going to be hard anywhere).

[TW1]

As long as your patient, there is little reason to buy from DVC directly. The savings of resale can be very attractive.

And to steal a quote from a friend, "don't buy where you don't want to stay." If you will not be happy in any given resort, don't buy it. Because when the time comes and you are shut out of your 1st-5th choices and end up staying where you bought, you'll be unhappy.

[OttawaWendy]

"don't buy where you don't want to stay."

This is smart, and more accurate than "buy where you want to stay".

So to the OP, as you think about the choices, where are places you want to stay or would be willing to/happy to stay? How much of a priority is it for you to stay there? Where are places you don't want to stay?

If someone wants BCV on at least 60% of his/her trips, for example, s/he better buy BCV, and better be organized enough to book ahead of the 7-month window.

OKW is probably middle of the pack in terms of availability (easier to get than BCV and VWL, harder to get than SSR and BWV - that's my guess anyway) because of the cheaper point costs. I'm not sure where AKV fits into that mix (probably depends on views). If, because of your sleeping preferences, you are only going to be happy at OKW, it is probably best to buy there. Do some research on current resale prices and wait for the right opportunity to come along.

[glypnirsgirl]

If you decide that you really want OKW (it was my first home resort and still my favorite), one of the things to consider in the mix is if you buy directly from DVC, you will get the longer point contract. It would also cost you more than the resale. I looke at the ages of your children --- and even buying resale, your youngest child will be 42 when the points expire at OKW.

Elaine

[bababear]

I'd go "Buy where you want to stay " or atleast where you wouldn't mind staying,,,and buy resale. I'd think twice about buying one large contract.
Buying smaller contracts has some advantages. JMHo

Hugs Mel

[dmaxdmax]

Is there an advantage to multiple small contracts other than ease of resale? Does DVC treat 100+100 exactly the same as 200?

It seems to me the problem with 2 small contracts is that I need to make certain that I have enough points in one of them to take the vacation I'd be happy to slum with if needed. If I had 150+50 at VWL and wanted to get my foot in the door at WTHTGTCTOATCRWINMKIIEH (Whatever The Heck They're Going To Call The One At The Contemporary Resort Which Is Near Magic Kingdom If It Ever Happens) I could sell 50 and still have enough left for a modest studio at VWL without having to borrow a huge % of the following year's point. At 100+100 I'd end up with very few at VWL. Yes.

(let's ignore the possibility that 1 for 1 transfers might be a problem at the new place. Change my example to SSR)

[greenban]

Well let me point out some obvious differences between OKW and SSR:
1) the 11 month booking window (might be important, might not - probably depends on when you want to travel - if you are travelling in busy times, it matters more).
2) the maintenance fees have (to date) been higher per point for OKW. I'm not sure if that is because of something to do with their design (some properties are more expensive to maintain) or if it is just their age (and SSR will be similar at a similar stage of life).
3) You get 12 extra years of points at SSR. So you are really buying 6800 total points at OKW or 9200 points at SSR for a 200-point contract.

That last point may not seem important, but it will be. Whether or not you intend to use the points in 2042 to 2054, it will impact on the resale value of those points when you do want to sell.

We were able to buy our contract outright, so no borrowing costs, which made our analysis easier. We figured that we bought our points, in 2005 dollars, at about $1.67 per point (for each and every year). We then added on our expected maintenance fees for each and every year, with an assumed rate of increase for maintenance. When we did this analysis, it became apparent to us that at the then-available rates, we were getting a great deal by buying the SSR contract with the extra 12 years. We did buy resale because we were able to get a better deal.

We compared that, FYI, to the cost of staying in value resorts, based on an assumed yearly percentage increase in the cost of those accommodations. (I am simplifying this a bit because DW was the one who created these spreadsheets). There is no question DVC is worth it if you can plan and take advantage of your ownership. It isn't a good system if you are bad at planning and will let points lapse.


Now, out of deference to the "buy where you intend to stay" crowd, I will say that SSR is not our favourite resort but we are willing to stay there and enjoy it. We actually like staying in lots of different places. So we often book SSR at 11 months, and then see what's available at 7 months. This wouldn't work if we didn't like SSR, or we were always booking at the last minute (that's going to be hard anywhere).

My understanding is that all OKW contracts purchased directly from Disney, now have the 2054 end date, so unless buying resale, there is no 12 year difference.

My family and I prefer OKW to SSR handsdown. YMMV.

-Tony

[greenban]

This is smart, and more accurate than "buy where you want to stay".

So to the OP, as you think about the choices, where are places you want to stay or would be willing to/happy to stay? How much of a priority is it for you to stay there? Where are places you don't want to stay?

If someone wants BCV on at least 60% of his/her trips, for example, s/he better buy BCV, and better be organized enough to book ahead of the 7-month window.

OKW is probably middle of the pack in terms of availability (easier to get than BCV and VWL, harder to get than SSR and BWV - that's my guess anyway) because of the cheaper point costs. I'm not sure where AKV fits into that mix (probably depends on views). If, because of your sleeping preferences, you are only going to be happy at OKW, it is probably best to buy there. Do some research on current resale prices and wait for the right opportunity to come along.

Again WRT BWV yes and no. BWV 6 GVs, OKW is much easier. Standard View BW Studios, 1BRs and 2Brs, which cost the same or *LESS* than OKW, much, much harder to get.

Because of the flexibility and variety of DVC resorts, accomidations, seasons, and rules, it is very hard for generalizations such as 'buy where you want to stay, or 1-Brs are always the last unit available' to be accurate all of the time.

Having said that, I have always been and as the DVC extends I have become more fanatic in the Buy where you want to stay mantra. VWL at Christmas, you better book day-by-day at the 11 month window.

Don't buy where you don't want to stay works for now, but who knows what changes in the future may render that void. Hmmmm, perhaps concierge at KT?

So my 'word of advice' to newbies looking into the DVC, the generalizations we old timers use, are not all inclusive, nor right for each member of the DVC family, but really a short-hand generalization to allow faster internet posting.

FWIW, I follow buy where you want to stay, rent carefully and stay of DVC's RADAR, and I use the 11 month window whenever possible. (More for the 180+10day ADRs than for DVC availability.) I also don't think non-DVC trades are ever worth it, nor is a cruise. I can rent the same # of points out, pay for the cruise with cash and have enough cash to pay all my cruise expenses. To me that makes more sense, but I have a large rental following and I am very comfortable renting....... (Renting is easier than many make it sound, BTW!)

-Tony

[4t'sdisneystyle]

Again...Old Key West is fantastic for families with middle age children...
We actually shared a 2 bedroom with our neighbors...The design of
the 2 bedroom floor plan works out great...With some privacy for all...
The pool, grounds,restraunt, lounge, etc... are wonderful and the transportation was great as well...
We own in SSR and will be making our first trip in 7 days...Yahoo!- ..We love Old Key West and have stayed there over the past several years, initially due to the
point schedule...Now purely because we feel like it is truly a home away from
home...If you are looking a purchasing a time share...DVC is by far the most
flexible. To date, I have not had a problem securing dates/ times for travel.
I do tend to plan several months in advance...Good luck w/ all-:computerg

[kirotank]

[/B]

FWIW, I follow buy where you want to stay, rent carefully and stay of DVC's RADAR, and I use the 11 month window whenever possible. (More for the 180+10day ADRs than for DVC availability.) I also don't think non-DVC trades are ever worth it, nor is a cruise. I can rent the same # of points out, pay for the cruise with cash and have enough cash to pay all my cruise expenses. To me that makes more sense, but I have a large rental following and I am very comfortable renting....... (Renting is easier than many make it sound, BTW!)

-Tony

Elaborate on the RADAR?

Do you off set cash costs by renting?

Thanks

[TrvlPrincess]

We bought in OKW thru the Resale, several reasons
#1 is it where we would like to stay (bigger rooms, love the theming etc)
#2 Lower annual dues
#3 Cheaper thru resale

Since SSR is so big, and January is usually when we travel to WDW it will be no problem to get in with the 7 months window. THat is why we did not buy in SSR. We want to add points but in AKV.

[greenban]

Totally off topic, but I just love the title of the OP.

Puts a big ole grin on this froggy's face.

-Tony

[Tapestry]

I'd have to agree - buy where you want to stay. The 11 month window is often a really, really, really big help in getting what you want, where you want.

That being said, everyone has their own experiences and perceptions...Here are mine for what they're worth.

Resale or Retail?

I've done both. I got my feet wet at the Boardwalk. I wanted a small contract, I wanted it near Epcot, and I wanted to see if I could make it pay. It worked. I liked it so much I wanted more. But where? Boardwalk did have the advantage of being close to Epcot and Dolphin/Swan restaurants, and of course, the Boardwalk!, but, that's about it. The resort is older and is showing it's age. DVC isn't always great at keeping everything as perfect as their hotel counterparts (older carpets, furniture, fixtures, etc. replaced far less frequently for instance).

I paid a reasonable price for the unit, particularly for a small contract. Resale, the more you buy, the better the price. BUT REMEMBER, Disney will not let the price drop below a certain level. For example, a seller and I agreed upon a really good price, we signed, I put up the earnest money, and Disney exercised its Right of First Refusal. The moral of the story is you need to buy enough points in order that the point value PLUS the transfer fees outweigh the Disney price (that usually includes a discount per point and NO closing costs). Resale can be a good deal, but you have to buy bigger.

Location, Location, Transportation

Like I said before, the Boardwalk has its advantages...transportation is definitely not one of them. The evening is generally when you're tired and want to relax (if you're not running crazy with kids anyway), go to dinner, Downtown Disney, whatever. It's great for Epcot and the Boardwalk... but to go anywhere else takes FOREVER on Disney transportation as the bus stops EVERYWHERE. The Boardwalk bus, depending on season, stops at the Swan, Dolpin, Yacht, Beach AND Boardwalk. Be prepared for at least an hour.

Contrast that with at most with one stopover at a waterpark from Animal Kingdom Villas or Wilderness Villas, for instance.

Megaresorts like Saratoga Springs and Old Key West while direct, have multiple stops in-resort. Further, they are sprawling parking lots of monochrome buildings that are pretty hot to walk around thanks to the asphalt jungle. (By the way, where the inspiration for Saratoga Springs came from I can't say, as neither the architecture nor colors are even remotely like Saratoga, NY). From the standpoint of location, these resorts are delightfully remote, and feel like they are a world away from Disney yet with Disney service. On the other hand they are in the middle of nowhere. You can walk to Downtown Disney from Saratoga Springs in less time than it will take you to ride the launch. Additionally, thanks to the Imagineers, staying at the Wilderness Villas also gives you the feel of being miles away from the mouse while being a stone's throw from the mouse.

ME

I've stayed at them all. All Disney hotels and all Disney DVCs. Animal Kingdom is clearly my favorite DVC, and remains my clear favorite hotel as well. For purely sentimental reasons I love the Contemporary, but as a hotel, AKL is hands down superior.

[Magic Fanatic]

Thanks for everyone's input. We went ahead with the 250 pt resale at Old Key West @ $71.00/pt. We received notification in only 7 days that Disney had passed on ROFR so now are just waiting for closing. The information from this site was very helpful to us in making our decision. Thanks again.

[TW1]

Thanks for everyone's input. We went ahead with the 250 pt resale at Old Key West @ $71.00/pt. We received notification in only 7 days that Disney had passed on ROFR so now are just waiting for closing. The information from this site was very helpful to us in making our decision. Thanks again.

Congratulations and Welcome Home!

[greenban]

Thanks for everyone's input. We went ahead with the 250 pt resale at Old Key West @ $71.00/pt. We received notification in only 7 days that Disney had passed on ROFR so now are just waiting for closing. The information from this site was very helpful to us in making our decision. Thanks again.

Congrats and welcome home neighboor!!!!!


-Tony