To recline, or not to recline?

[JRandAJsMom]

Ok, so maybe I'm in the wrong here, but I wanted to get a public opinion...

Airplane travel isn't known for it's comfort level... And when you travel with a toddler on either side of you and your DH is on the other side of the plane so he can't help you it's even better :crowded: But, oh, it gets better than that... You decided to give your sons drammamine before the flight because they get motion sickness and then you have to wait for an hour to take off because of a bomb (yes, real bomb) in the Orlando Airport. All this adds up to my 3yo DS with special needs (one of them being aspergers tendancies) being one tired and high maintenance traveler. So what do I do? I answer his request to sleep by reclining his seat the full whopping 2 inches that it goes back (which is not alot, but just enough to keep him from flopping forward or to the side and we just went through 2-1/2 years of PT to take care of scoliosis and torticollis) and the lady sitting behind me looks at me like I have two heads and says "could you please not smash her with that???" like I had reclined it into her lap. The lady behind my DS wasn't being touched by the seat-- she was reading a magazine and the drink on her table wasn't even disturbed. Both of them were with a group-- half the plane was returning from a convention... So I put the seat back up and Alex was a cranky, noisy little boy for the next 45 minutes to an hour... Imagine the typical "why do I have to have this kid on my flight" kind of child... My DH looks at me and I say to him so the ladies behind me can very much hear me that they won't let me allow him to lie back and go to sleep and if they're not going to let him sleep then they're just going to have to deal with listening to him. Anyone who knows autistic or aspergers kids knows that there's no calming them when they are in a situation like that... I tried playing with him and feeding him and everything, but no luck. He eventually fell asleep hunched over the side of the armrest because I think he just crabbed himself out.

So, I guess my question is, am I in the wrong for being mad that this lady had the nerve to tell me not to recline the seat that I paid for my son to sit in? I know I don't like it when the person in front of me reclines because, let's face it-- the room is reduced as it is-- but I've never asked them to put it back up. Am I the jerk here?

[mountainjourno]

If someone had said "could you please not smash her with that?" I'd be inclined to ignore them.

If someone had said, "would you mind putting the seat back up? I'm feeling a bit squished in here because there is so little room," I would have put the seat back up.

I thought the way you were asked was extremely rude and I refuse to reward rudeness. When I'm tired and worried about my kids though, I tend to be more likely to give into rude twits and then feel angry about it later, so I can totally empathise.

I can relate to the cranky kid on flight problem - I wrote an article about mine for a Canadian magazine a couple of years ago (hope it gives you a smile) : http://www.parentscanada.com/developing/tweens.aspx?listingid=165

[JRandAJsMom]

I can relate to the cranky kid on flight problem - I wrote an article about mine for a Canadian magazine a couple of years ago (hope it gives you a smile) : http://www.parentscanada.com/developing/tweens.aspx?listingid=165

GREAT article!!! I almost took the "just wait and surprise them" approach too, but I didn't know how to pull it off (and I couldn't hold in the secret that long!!!). And forget the smile-- It gave me a much needed laugh because I can appreciate what you wrote :) I just need to forget about them and drop it from my head, but I guess I was just wondering what others thought :)

[jbrowna]

I guess DW and I would have been the kind to suggest "Would it help if you reclined his seat?" :ang2: We have two grandchildren, and although they don't have any special needs, at 4 and 7 they can get cranky on flights, so anything it takes... :hammer: Seriously, it never bothers us when someone in front reclines the seat, other than one time: on one flight the fellow in front of DW reclined his seat as far as he could, and then proceeded to put pillows and blankets behind him so that he could sit up straighter to play his computer game. :veryconfu We didn't say anything, but we certainly thought it was rude of him! DW and I are fairly slender, but I can see that someone a little heavier might find a fully reclined seat in front of them very clastrophobic. Just a question to the OP: was the person complaining on the heavyset side?

[mountainjourno]

GREAT article!!! I almost took the "just wait and surprise them" approach too, but I didn't know how to pull it off (and I couldn't hold in the secret that long!!!). And forget the smile-- It gave me a much needed laugh because I can appreciate what you wrote :)

Thanks :)

By the way - a lot of apostrophes and commas mysteriously disappeared out of the web version of that article, but they were all present in the magazine version! Weird. (Just in case you thought my grammar was that bad, I'd be writing "Lets do this" in stead of "Let's do this" and were instead of we're! Yikes!!!)

[nono]

You have to let it go. You got your jab back at their rudeness by talking across the aisle to your husband and reminding them how short-sighted their decision was to overrule your first choice of keeping your child comfortable. (Well done, btw!!! :highfive:)

I always try to go into a flight with "we're all in this together" because, well, we are! Apparently, the person behind you didn't have this attitude.

[Ranedrops]

On every flight I have taken, the adult seated in front of me has reclined the seat. Although it does make my area a little more cramped, I have never said a word. I believe they did pay for the seat & should be entitled to recline if they so choose. I choose not to recline my seat on a short flight. Maybe if it was along flight I would.

There was once an 8 year old girl who was quite cranky and loud. People were giving the glares, etc to her Dad. My DH was seated next the her Dad & her. Her Dad kept apologizing & explained that had the mental capabilities of a 2 year old since suffering a stroke as toddler. We felt bad that this man felt the need to apologize for his daughter's disability.

On another flight the young 6 year old boy was autistic. He actually undid his seat belt while we taking off and ran up the isle. The parents had to catch him & return him to his seat where he screamed the entire time until the seat belt light went off. My DH is an art teacher who works with some special needs children & spent the majority of the flight drawing characters for him, trying to help keep him occupied.

I think the lady was rude in the way that she addressed your reclining the seat. It is sad that people take it upon themselves to judge others without knowing the circumstances. I would much rather have someone recline the seat & make the child comfortable & happy rather than have the child upset & crying the entire flight.

[vwl mom]

Confession time - I have usually had the person in front of me recline and not said anything EXCEPT the one time the plane wasn't full but I was in the LAST row, making our seats not even have the recline option. A teenager flying alone moved to the seat in front of me, not his assigned seat, and put it as far back as it would go. There wasn't room for me to take a sip of my soda without leaning out into the aisle. I leaned around and asked him if he would mind putting his seat up since we didn't have anywhere to recline and it was a bit cramped.:crowded: When he refused, I buzzed for the flight attendant and had her check his ticket and send him back to his assigned seat. :worried: I think you have to measure the discomfort that you are in against the need of the other person, so there is no way I would have asked you to put your child's seat up, even if I was in the last row! I'm sorry you got someone who did.:holymoly:

[Ranedrops]

I think you have to measure the discomfort that you are in against the need of the other person

I agree. I think that there are definitely times where we have to allow ourselves the inconvenience and/or discomfort for the better of someone else who's needs are greater than ours.

[I'mNoPrince]

If they are made to recline then recline them.

I would have told the nice lady that First class has more room maybe she should look into it for her next trip.

You know you get what you paid for and she paid for a seatback to get a bit closer to her.

Now I do look back to make sure I'm not going to hit them or anything but other then that I'm sorry I paid just as much and I desrve to use all the comforts the plane offers and reclining is one of them.

Also there are other seats on every plane that have seats in front of them (or no seat at all) that they could have chosen.

On this one I would have put my kids and my comfort a bit ahead of hers.

[tomandrobin]

All I can say is your are more understanding then my wife would have been in that situation. In fact, my wife may have ended up in the TSA office once the plane landed.

[Deb & Bill]

Ah, there is nothing like airline travel to bring the best out in everyone.

That said, I'm not a fan of reclined seats on planes. And I usually get someone seated in front of me who reclines their seat as soon as we level out and don't put it back up until the pilot instructs the flight attendants to prepare the plane for landing. There just is nothing like trying to work or do anything with someone else's head in your lap. Reminds me of Queen Latifa in The Last Holiday on her way over to Prague.

I understand you were trying to resolve your problem with your child, but you don't know where the passenger seated behind him was even coming from. Yeah, she could have been a little more polite about how she asked you if you could raise the seat. Maybe she was, but you were stressed out about your child and didn't get that from her. She might have had a bad trip, unsuccessful meeting, was claustrophobic, hated flying (that's me), airsick herself, etc.

I'm sorry you had problems, but unless you know both sides of the story, you really aren't being fair to the other passenger.

Consideration is a two way street.

[parrisk]

I believe you had every right to be angry. The woman was rude, and you paid for your seat to recline. I don't care what kind of day she had, the way she spoke to you was uncalled for and I can't blame you for wanting to make her feel uncomfortable also. A child's comfort (thus everyone else's comfort) should be more important than an adult's comfort. I don't think well in situations like that and I probably would have let the seat up also, then spent the entire flight obsessing about what I should have done or said. :mad: No one enjoys having a seat reclined in front of them, but you get what you pay for. I would rather put up with that inconvenience and pay less for my flight. I make frequent trips to the restroom, therefore, I always try to book early so I can get the back row. Clear your conscience, they got what they deserved.

[DVC4me]

I usually recline my seat part way. My thinking is, if the airline has reclining seats, they can be used. As other have said, there are options to chose if you don't want anyone to recline their seat in front of you. I always choose a row that can recline, because I prefer that. It never bothers me if the person in front of me reclines. I probably would have ignored the rude lady.

Jerry

[AFMom]

If we're on a long enough flight that we can try to nap (me, my kids, or my DH) we recline the seats. For me - there is no way to rest unless the seat is reclined - theseats sit way to far forward. Usually when I'm traveling cross country (always from FL to CA - the only time we fly) we have to get up at 4am to make the flight, and really need that nap.
Anytime I'm not asleep, though - I keep the seat up for the person behind me. Anyone who has flown more than once knows how little space there is, and I'm sure the lady behind you had her seat reclined at some point during the flight!

[I'mNoPrince]

I just wanted to add that my flight tomorrow , I most likely won't recline (maybe a bit ) due to it being a 2:30pm flight and only for under 2 hours.

But I do still believe you have every right to recline if you need or just want to .

I will flying by myself and forgot to Check-in today at the 24hr mark . I would like to try to get one of the Exit seats or even the one that doesn't have a seat in front of it but I guess that won't happen now.

[Disney4Us]

All I want to say is that you are a very calm person! My son has sensory integration and has the same type tendencies. I pay the same price for his 3yr old butt to sit in a seat as that lady did. I would be very upset if someone said that to me and all you were doing was trying to calm him and let him have a well deserved nap.

My older son has congenital nystagmus and torticallis (sp). I would have ignored her and taken the steps you needed to for your child. The seats recline for a reason, to give some comfort. Her seat reclined too!

Next time don't let people like that alter what you are doing for your special needs child. You weren't doing it to make her uncomfortable on purpose.

Great Job keeping your cool!!

[mikayla73]

I too think that the lady was rude and didn't need to be. It doesn't matter what kind of day she had, she shouldn't have been rude. She cold have went about saying it in a different way if she truely had a problem.

I agree with the other person that said they look at flying like they are all in this together. I look at it that way too. It is uncomfortable and peole are cranky, especially when you are stuck on a plane for an extra hour, but that is no reason to take it out on anyone else, especially a mom trying to take care of her child.

DH and I don't have any children, but we always try to be sensitive to parents flying with children.

One time on a flight we sat next to a lady with a baby, not a newborn, but under a year old. The baby started off pretty happy, but when we got going, he was not happy at all. She tried several things to make him more comfortable to no avail. We could tell she felt bad and was trying everything she could, but it wasn't working. DH tried to help by talking to him and trying to get his attention. The whole time there was a guy across the aisle glaring at them. I felt bad for her. He finally fell asleep, but was partially laying on DH's arm. She tried to resituate him, but we told her it was fine. He was fine and a little baby drool wouldn't hurt anyone :hahahaha:

I just don't understand rude/mean people. :thumbsway

[inkmahm]

If we're on a long enough flight that we can try to nap (me, my kids, or my DH) we recline the seats. For me - there is no way to rest unless the seat is reclined - theseats sit way to far forward. Usually when I'm traveling cross country (always from FL to CA - the only time we fly) we have to get up at 4am to make the flight, and really need that nap.
Anytime I'm not asleep, though - I keep the seat up for the person behind me. Anyone who has flown more than once knows how little space there is, and I'm sure the lady behind you had her seat reclined at some point during the flight!

Not necessarily. I never ever recline my seat on flights since I don't want to smash the person behind me. I appreciate when the person ahead of me also doesn't recline their seat, which is the vast majority of the time. Sometimes I'm unlucky and I get someone ahead of me who insists on reclining because they paid for the seat, so they can. It does make it very uncomfortable having the seat jammed into my knees but I never say anything. I do move my knees around quite a bit though so I doubt the person gets much sleep at that point.

[mkhurley]

You should of left it reclined, her comfort isn't your concern. I'm one of the people that puts mine back as soon as I can and don't move it back up til I have to (as someone else talked about). Why?? Cause of my back, sitting without some recline hurts, if they don't like it they are welcome to move if they can. I'm not gonna fly for 18hrs or 30 minutes hurting so someone else can be happy, they aren't my problem.

As for kids screamin on the plane....I have the Bose Quiet Comfort Headphones.....scream away. :thumbsup:

[Tink22]

I agree, that woman was rude. You did pay for that seat and I would think she would have preferred the seat back rather than listen to an unhappy, tired child on the flight. Your responsibility is for your child's well being, not some rude stranger's happiness. You could have suggested that next time she request an exit row. They have more leg room. My 6'2" father always books them because his knees hit the seat in front of him and he has restless leg syndrome, which is terrible on long flights. I know because I have it too. If she was that unhappy about the 3" the seat reclines she could have asked to be moved herself. I commend you for keeping your cool, and for the subtle way you let her know that if she would have been kinder, your child would have been sleeping and calm much sooner!

[emb1963]

I see this from both points. I'm not a skinny by any stretch of the imagination and I have had the seat in front recline and really cramp me, but the bottom line is we all paid for a seat not the space around the seat. I have a hurniated disk in my low back, when I fly I have a small pillow that must be placed in the small of my back or I'm in severe pain when I try to stand. So my seat goes back until I'm told to bring it up. Now that doesn't mean I totally disregard the person behind me. Sometimes the seats go too far back or don't hold their position, so I keep adjusting the seat.

Had I been put in the position as the OP, I would have looked them in eye and said 'YES' , turned around and reclined my own seat.

[JRandAJsMom]

Wow-- I didn't expect so much input, haha :) I do appreciate the feedback from both sides of the coin. I do wish I would have stuck up for my DS a little more, but it was my first experience like that and I think this has really made me feel better about the way I felt about the situation overall.

I don't want to sound like I was insensitive to her needs-- I wasn't reclining his seat just because I could and I didn't even do it right from the start-- I waited until he requested to go to sleep... I looked back at the lady behind him with concern when the other lady said that because I thought I did something, but I hadn't. I think I was just in the "oh no she didn't" :jawdroppi state of shock after that... Next time I will probably be more prepared to handle it-- but in a civil way of course :innocent: Ugh... Hopefully there won't be a next time :tongue:

[wintergreen]

Oh, this is a tough one. We had something similar happen once on a late evening flight home from Orlando. The girls were zonked, and wanted to try to sleep, so one of them reclined her seat. We immediately got a request to put the seat back up from the lady behind us, who said that her husband was very tall, and the reclined seat made him uncomfortable. She was polite about it, but I could tell that she would complain loundly if we did not comply. I put the seat back forward, but as a result, my poor daughter was really not able to get comfortable, and did not sleep. The lady tried making small talk with me later at the baggage claim, but I'm afraid that I was too grumpy at that point to be very friendly.

I try not to recline my seat if I am on a short flight, and I ask the girls not to recline their unless they are trying to sleep. Forget about transatlantic flights though, you just have to recline in order to rest.

[extremesoccermom]

On every flight I have taken, the adult seated in front of me has reclined the seat. Although it does make my area a little more cramped, I have never said a word. I believe they did pay for the seat & should be entitled to recline if they so choose. I choose not to recline my seat on a short flight. Maybe if it was along flight I would.

Well, I agree with this. Although I hate when people put there seat back especially when they do it suddenly and I am leaning forward or DS has his laptop on watching a movie and it cracks the screen :blech:
I don't usually put my seat back since it is only a 2-2 1/2 hour ride for us but I fully respect the fact that the person in front of me has the right to put theirs back.
I would rather have that than a screaming, crabby or kicking kid in the seat behind me.

[burcs]

i'm tall; when the seat in front of me reclines there is contact with my knee. i compensate by reclining myself and adjusting my position. i'll admit to being annoyed the seat in front of me is reclined, but hey that's what the seat is made to do and besides i'm doing it too.

it's kind of like when the person in front of you viewing a parade tippy toes up. it's annoying, but maybe they can't see, but certainly i wouldn't tell them to stand down. so then you tippy toe up. and so on...


paul

[griffs222]

I am also a tall person, just over 6'3", and I will admit that when a person in front of me reclines it does make it a lil uncomfortable for me. However, I would never ask, or expect a person to sit up right the whole flight so I can have a few more inches of leg room. If I was in your position (OP) I would have politely explained that my son has a disability and that as much as I'd like to have him sit up right and give you more room, Im sorry, I just can not allow him to be uncomfortable for the length of the flight. I still can't get over the nerve some people have, almost as if the are the only people that matter on the flight or that have the right to tell other passengers how to sit.:headbange

[Starr W.]

I am also a tall person, just over 6'3", and I will admit that when a person in front of me reclines it does make it a lil uncomfortable for me. However, I would never ask, or expect a person to sit up right the whole flight so I can have a few more inches of leg room. If I was in your position (OP) I would have politely explained that my son has a disability and that as much as I'd like to have him sit up right and give you more room, Im sorry, I just can not allow him to be uncomfortable for the length of the flight. I still can't get over the nerve some people have, almost as if the are the only people that matter on the flight or that have the right to tell other passengers how to sit.:headbange

My DH is 6'4", so since we usually split up with the kids( he takes one, I take one) I try to sit in front of him so we don't have that problem.

My eldest is an Aspie, so I know where the OP is coming from.

[JimP]

I am 6'7" and I put the seat back the moment the wheels are off the ground... and before they are retracted.

Sorry... if someone doesnt want the person in front of them reclining... they can sit at the bulkhead. The seats are designed to recline, and be used in that position from takeoff until a few minutes before landing.

/Jim

[rowan]

I agree that if a person doesnt want to take a chance of a seat being reclined in front of them then they have options to prevent it. If someone is 6'6" for example, they do have the option of first class or the front row of coach- no it isnt fair that they have to spend more to be comfortable. But that is part of life, someone extra tall would not expect to buy a dodge neon or VW Beetle and be comfortable so they cant expect and on the flip side it isnt fair that I have to spend a fortune to have every pair of jeans altered because I am so short.
I dont mean to offend anyone, I for one dont recline my seat unless I turn around and see that the person behind me has their seat reclined, because I dont want to make others uncomfortable, and I dont particularly love it when the person in front of me lays their seat all the way back either. But I wouldnt say anything to them if they did recline in front of me, obviously the airline feels they have that right or they would not make seats that recline. Why should they suffer for the sake of my comfort.
All I mean is that if it important to a person that whoever in front of them doesnt do it, they need to make other arrangements instead of being rude. Like the OP that arranges to sit in front of her tall husband- thinking ahead at its best!:thumbsup:

By the way- if the person behind me had acted like that, I probably would have done the same as you- and then wished I had been more stubborn. It is awful that so often its the greasy wheel that gets the oil, sadly enough it was probably b/c she had a large group with her that she felt so entitled.

[DonaldD]

When it comes to my own comfort, I'm willing to be more understanding and would have put my seat back up, and grumbled under my breath for the rest of the flight. But we travel with young children and I understand the differences and challenges that this presents.

I commend you (OP) for taking the high road, but I would have explained to her the need for DS's seat to be reclined and left it at that.

But kudos to you!

[OttawaWendy]

I am a very regular business traveller (70+ trips per year, mostly on Air Canada, which is a little more generous with space than some of the American airlines). You pay for a seat, and that includes the right to recline, as much as you would care to do.

I don't recline if I am reading or writing (it doesn't assist my comfort then) but I will if I am sleeping or watching a movie. I don't feel one bit guilty about this, even if the person behind me is in a row which can't recline. These days, you pay extra for the privilege of seat selection so the person either chose that seat or chose to pay less for their ticket than I did and got stuck with the seat.

I know I'm sounding like a capitalist here (and I'm a bit on the lefty end mostly), but air travel is a luxury; it isn't health care or education. You get what you are willing to pay for and you have no right to anything else.

[OttawaWendy]

If someone had said "could you please not smash her with that?" I'd be inclined to ignore them.

If someone had said, "would you mind putting the seat back up? I'm feeling a bit squished in here because there is so little room," I would have put the seat back up.

I thought the way you were asked was extremely rude and I refuse to reward rudeness. When I'm tired and worried about my kids though, I tend to be more likely to give into rude twits and then feel angry about it later, so I can totally empathise.

I can relate to the cranky kid on flight problem - I wrote an article about mine for a Canadian magazine a couple of years ago (hope it gives you a smile) : http://www.parentscanada.com/developing/tweens.aspx?listingid=165

This is a very funny article, and a familiar situation. (I'm a business traveller, alternating between modes "I hate kids, please don't sit near me" and "I like kids but not on planes and you have my sympathy but still, please don't sit near me").

I have to say, I sometimes wonder if I am morally obliged to help out, and sometimes I want to help out, but don't know what I can do that won't freak out a parent (STRANGER ALERT! STRANGER ALERT!).

[MouseMagic]

Hi,

I'm also a frequent business traveler. Like many of the previous posters I will recline if my comfort demands it...BUT... I try to scope out what is behind me first and assess if I really need to recline. BOS to LAX...yep I'm going to recline at some point to relax. Often I need to work on the flights so with my laptop open if the seat in front of me reclines I then have to recline.

That said... if I'm stuck in the back row, in a middle seat, stuck between two fellow business travelers who have enjoyed too much layover time in the airport bar and I have exhausted all attempts to upgrade etc... I will ask the person who is reclining in front of me to move the seat up.... because...sometimes...it is just a case of "REALLY". I understand that they're tired also, I understand that they purchased the seat and it reclines...but at that point I don't want to sit there being able to count your dandruff flakes either.

To the OP... if the situation in paragraph #2 ever happened and a parent then ever said that they needed to recline to keep a child comfortable regardless of ability, I would have apologized immediately and just worked with the situation for what it was. I would just suggest that you feel free to tell your fellow passengers that you need to do this for your child.... if that lady was still insisting I would have suggested she consider upgrading herself or her family member so it wasn't an issue for her.

To my fellow business frequent flyers..... even though I'm a mom I do cringe a bit when I see a baby/toddler boarding....then feel guilty that I cringed, since I'm often on the "mom" side of that senario..... and heck...a number of times that I was away for a longer trip....a baby sitting next to me on the flight home made the ride quicker... I get to play with the baby and help out the parent/s and it helps me pass the time until I get to hug my own.

:blueflowe
Dora

[cheyenne]

I don't think you're wrong to be annoyed. Every time I travel the person in front of me puts their seat back & not once has anyone ever asked me if I mind. I usually put my seat back too & I don't feel bad about it. It don't usually put it back as far as it goes because I realize it is cramped. But, if I'm trying to sleep I don't feel bad about it. It's only about an 1" anyway. If someone asked me nicely to put it up because they're were squished I'd do it, but if they were rude about it probably not.

[Princess Amy]

I generally recline when flying. I do look back and give a little warning that I am coming back, and if I don't say something I go real slow as to give them a heads up.

One flight a few years back I had my seat reclined and the man behind me (who did not speak very good English) shoved my chair up. I put it back again (I was trying to sleep) and he shoved it up again. I sat there trying to decided the best way to handle this, I flagged down a flight attendant and she took care of it. She moved him because he would not stop! That was a long flight!

[JimP]

I generally recline when flying. I do look back and give a little warning that I am coming back, and if I don't say something I go real slow as to give them a heads up.

I also go back very slowly. I dont want someone to get hit... or worse... have their laptop squeezed between the table... and the indentation that the table folds into and break the screen.

/Jim

[grumpy]

O

So, I guess my question is, am I in the wrong for being mad that this lady had the nerve to tell me not to recline the seat that I paid for my son to sit in?

Nope. You are in the wrong for not keeping it back and letting the mean lady complain.

Sorry you had Ursela sitting behind you

[Griz]

I actually think you could have handled the situation much better.

Even though she sounded rude, the woman didn't ask you to put the seat up, she asked you not to hit her companion with it. Maybe, the seat went back a bit suddenly for her. In which case, a simple, "Oh, I'm sorry." and you could have been done with it.

But, let's assume that the woman persisited: "Could you PLEASE put your seat back up?" (said, in a very rude way) your response could have been:
(a) No, I'm sorry. My son is a bit cranky and he needs it reclined to sleep;
(b) No, I'm sorry. My son is a bit cranky and he needs it reclined to sleep, but if you want to switch seats with my husband he is right back there.

You obviously wanted to keep the seat back and have your son be comfortable, but for some reason you felt compelled to give way to this other woman (when, according to your own story, she didn't even specifically ask you to put the seat back).

Instead, you did it on your own. You felt strongly that it was important for your son's comfort to have it reclined, yet you still changed the seat. You were also aware that by putting the seat up your son would become disruptive to the rest of the passangers, yet you still changed the seat.

Instead of simply standing up for yourself (an your son), you choose to deal with it in a very immature manner, i.e., you put your son in a position where you thought he might be distuptive and then you let it be known that it was THEIR fault when he was. Really, it was your fault.

Yes, the woman probably did sound rude, but people are rude all the time (sometimes intentionally, sometimes not). (And, believe me, if I sound rude here, it's unintentional.). All we can control is how we react.

What I think was worse than her being rude, was your making everyone on the plane suffer (including your son) because you wouldn't stand up for yourself. You have every right to recline your son's seat, and nobody can argue with that. By giving in, you merely made yourself fume for the rest of the flight (and presumambly long after).

I wouldn't dwell on it too much, but you should ask your self why you gave into this woman. Only you know the answer and I suspect that if you can figure that out, situations like this won't be much of a problem in the future.

Sorry if I sound harsh.

[greenban]

Ok, so maybe I'm in the wrong here, but I wanted to get a public opinion...

Airplane travel isn't known for it's comfort level... And when you travel with a toddler on either side of you and your DH is on the other side of the plane so he can't help you it's even better :crowded: But, oh, it gets better than that... You decided to give your sons drammamine before the flight because they get motion sickness and then you have to wait for an hour to take off because of a bomb (yes, real bomb) in the Orlando Airport. All this adds up to my 3yo DS with special needs (one of them being aspergers tendancies) being one tired and high maintenance traveler. So what do I do? I answer his request to sleep by reclining his seat the full whopping 2 inches that it goes back (which is not alot, but just enough to keep him from flopping forward or to the side and we just went through 2-1/2 years of PT to take care of scoliosis and torticollis) and the lady sitting behind me looks at me like I have two heads and says "could you please not smash her with that???" like I had reclined it into her lap. The lady behind my DS wasn't being touched by the seat-- she was reading a magazine and the drink on her table wasn't even disturbed. Both of them were with a group-- half the plane was returning from a convention... So I put the seat back up and Alex was a cranky, noisy little boy for the next 45 minutes to an hour... Imagine the typical "why do I have to have this kid on my flight" kind of child... My DH looks at me and I say to him so the ladies behind me can very much hear me that they won't let me allow him to lie back and go to sleep and if they're not going to let him sleep then they're just going to have to deal with listening to him. Anyone who knows autistic or aspergers kids knows that there's no calming them when they are in a situation like that... I tried playing with him and feeding him and everything, but no luck. He eventually fell asleep hunched over the side of the armrest because I think he just crabbed himself out.

So, I guess my question is, am I in the wrong for being mad that this lady had the nerve to tell me not to recline the seat that I paid for my son to sit in? I know I don't like it when the person in front of me reclines because, let's face it-- the room is reduced as it is-- but I've never asked them to put it back up. Am I the jerk here?

I disagree with you here:

1) You were not asked in a nice, nor respectful way. Done, that door has been slammed shut, listen, you can hear the deadbolts slide home! :headbange

2) My kids come first (especially a special needs child). Yes this a global village and all that crapola, but you know what was best for your kid, and you didn't give it to him.

Finally, if you paid for for the seat, too stinking bad, except for takeoff and landing, you can recline at will. If child was supposed to be ridding on your lap, then I would have lifted the chair back up to neutral, taken my baby on my Extra-Pooh-like frame, and leaned all the way back. :crowded: (My mass makes the chair (hhhhnmmmmm... 'bend' much further than 4 inches back (Bwahahahahahahha))

And lastly, I always eat spicey burritos and lots of soda before a flight. Two options of 'payback' exist.

While the http://www.abfnet.com/forum/images/smilies/fart.gif SBD :yuck:: is rarely necessary, if necessary to follow the SBD(s) you can simply turn around, lean over top of the seat back and start by saying, "Excuse me, do you have too......." <Urp> <Belch> http://www.abfnet.com/forum/images/smilies/throwup.gif LAVA FLOW all over the person behind me, and as manyof their seatmates as I can non-obviously reach. :holymoly::eek::smoke2:

That tends to end all converstion for the remainder of the flight. No one touches my chair back, or asks me or my kids to do anything!

-Tony

[Lisa]

Well I'm in the 'I don't recline unless I really need to' camp, like a flight where I need to rest (which really never happen when flying with kids). I guess I have too often seen my DH's face cringe with pain as the person in front of him reclines jamming his knee. If the seat in front of him is reclined (on many airlines) he cannot have it normally bent but must straight it out and angle it under the seat in front and hopefully into the aisle. Sure it is my right to recline anytime I please, but I feel it is my responsibility to be considerate of others as well.

As to the OP... I really can't judge the situation. There is a lot of communication that is based on tone of voice and facial expression. Your son apparently needed the seat reclined. I think I would have tried to briefly explain this to the person behind with a quick apology ...and then reclined the seat.

[BONZO]

So,

What would make of this then?

Leg room / Knee defender (http://www.gadgetduck.com/goods/kneedefender-how-to.html?s)

:rolleyes:

[wintergreen]

So,

What would make of this then?

Leg room / Knee defender (http://www.gadgetduck.com/goods/kneedefender-how-to.html?s)

:rolleyes:

Yikes!

[AFMom]

:bugeyed:I highly doubt the airlines will actually let that little device get used - and if someone handed my that little card - I would be complaining to the stewardess immediately and asking them to pay for a better seat next time!:tsktsk:

[shamrock6]

I dont have any objections to reclining. I personally don't do it and I am pretty tall myself. I never have any problems with some one in front of reclining. Just a little tense flying so I usually just sit upright read or look at magazines. My DH always reclines and goes to sleep. A very relaxed flyer. However, our children, all four, will recline when they are tired and when they are not they will use their tray to read or write. I personally would rather have my children recline and relax than be restless and be kicking the chair in front of them and bothering people that way.

If they were not meant to recline, ( and all the flights I have been on, it's such a slight recline) they wouldn't allow it at all. That's just my opinion.:bouncingp:bouncingp

[spiceycat]

don't know.

I don't recline and don't like the people who do.

but you weren't going as far back as most people do - and besides it was not her business.

would have ignored her - if she called a steward - I think they would have moved her not you and your son.

if you have to fly again - can you bring him stuff for entertainment - so maybe you don't have to drug him. Sometimes entertainment can make motion sickeness go away.

so sorry you went through this - maybe the woman was just having a bad day and decided to take it out on you.

[tammymacb]

I'm 5'11 and DH is 6'8. I don't recline and I don't appreciate folks who just ( attempt ) to jam their seat on my knees. I say "attempt" because if someone tries to recline I keep my knees at the back of the seat ( no stretch at all for me ) and dig in my feet. They don't recline far.

We always request an exit isle and because of Dhs height, we often get it.

But c'mon folks. For a few hours on a plane, it's not gonna kill us to sit up and read a book.

We are all hot, crowded, and probably already POd because our flight has been delayed for hours, do we have to get all up in each others personal space too? :innocent:

[JimP]

I'm 5'11 and DH is 6'8. I don't recline and I don't appreciate folks who just ( attempt ) to jam their seat on my knees. I say "attempt" because if someone tries to recline I keep my knees at the back of the seat ( no stretch at all for me ) and dig in my feet. They don't recline far.

We always request an exit isle and because of Dhs height, we often get it.

But c'mon folks. For a few hours on a plane, it's not gonna kill us to sit up and read a book.

We are all hot, crowded, and probably already POd because our flight has been delayed for hours, do we have to get all up in each others personal space too? :innocent:
I am 6'7 and I get very uncomfortable without reclining. Tammy... if you were sitting behind me... your legs would be so sore by the end of the flight that you would need a wheelchair to get off the plane. I would be bucking the seat against your legs so hard that the autopilot couldn't keep the plane flying level. Your legs would be interfering with MY personal space.

I also agree that if someone was using those devices to block my seat from reclining... I would complain to the airline to have that person moved.

/Jim

[tammymacb]

I'm so glad we won't be sharing a plane. We'd have a clash of the titans...

I'll be at the airport bright and early on the morning of the 26th of July. Just to request our exit seat. I'd hate to have to be taken off the plane in a wheelchair. :jleave:

[wdw1972]

My person opinion, unpopular as it may be - is the seats shouldn't be made so reclining is even an option. Reclining IS an intrusion to the person's space behind you, and I 100% agree with the person who basically said gimme a break people, just sit up for a few hours, lol. If I choose to use my laptop on a plane it will be on my tray table - and if the person in front of me reclined that seat, chances are I would not be able to use the laptop. To me it's common courtesy to not recline it at all.

Now granted, I'm on the shorter side of normal and I realize the airlines cram as many seats in as possible since each seat represents potential revenue. They do need to space them far enough apart so a taller than normal person can sit comfortably - without pressing into the back of the person in front of them. Flying these days is pretty much a nightmare anyway - and reclining your seat only adds to someone else's misery (unless the seat behind you is vacant).

[JimP]

I'm so glad we won't be sharing a plane. We'd have a clash of the titans...

I'll be at the airport bright and early on the morning of the 26th of July. Just to request our exit seat. I'd hate to have to be taken off the plane in a wheelchair. :jleave:

I book my exit row seat at time of booking... but that is because I have enough FF status. For this reason alone I concentrate virtually all my flying on a single airline.

If you are in the exit seat, the seat forward generally does not recline... especially the window seat. They cannot have a seat recline into the area of an exit. Sometimes the middle or isle seats do recline since they do not directly block the doorway.

/Jim

[JimP]

My person opinion, unpopular as it may be - is the seats shouldn't be made so reclining is even an option. Reclining IS an intrusion to the person's space behind you,

Sue,

There are aircraft without reclining seats. They are extremely uncomfortable... and I do anything possible to avoid them. Luckily they are generally only for short hops.

I really disagree that reclining extends into "your space". The seats are designed to recline... and are only required to be upright for takeoff and landing. If you do not want to "lose space".... make sure you have a reclining seat... and recline.

I spend many hours/week on airplanes... and the VAST majority of people recline their seats. Just a fact of life.

Starting on Monday I will be flying on a 1 1/2 week trip from Portland - Chicago - Frankfurt - Paris - Frankfurt - Dresden - Frankfurt - SF - Portland - SF - Taipei - SF - Portland. If I tried to do that without reclining I would end up in a body bag.

/Jim

[Lisa]

Wow! I'm impressed that you 6'6''+ guys actually fit in the coach seats to begin with!! .... at least in the airlines I've been flying. DH had one flight down to MCO with Jetblue in their newly expanded seat pitch in the front rows and now wants to fly them everywhere he can ...even if that means connecting through JFK.

[carolina_yankee]

I'm of mixed opinion on all of this, and the problems seem to vary from aircraft to aircraft or even airline to airline.

I agree with Sue WDW1972 about laptop issues. Does your right to recline automatically deny me my rate to put my tray down and use my laptop? That's a problem to me. On a couple of aircraft that happened to me. A couple of other acircraft, folks recline and I could still use my laptop.

That said, the airlines are setting us up for this dispute by using a seat spacing that causes discomfort for the person behind you when you exercise the full features of the seat you paid (possibly full fare) for.

It's sad that we live in a society in which people feel they can't politely ask someone to adjust a little bit so they can be more comfortable, but have to be rude about it. And it's sad that we feel we have a right to whatever posture we want regardless of what discomfort it causes others.

Obiously, there are times when circmstances dictate no one is going to be happy - but both parties have to work together to make the best of it.

All of this aside - anyone using those recline-blocker items should be charged by the airline for vandalism. That's the height of rudeness and no way anyone's status or ticket cost gives them the right to interfere with the intended operation of the aircraft or its features.

Dirk

[tonga]

DH is 6'6", and he never reclines because he likes to treat others the way he'd like to be treated. However, he never says anything to people in front of him if they recline. If they were reclined all the way back on a long flight, he might say something, but he's polite to a fault so he'd be nice about it. And he'd always put the needs of a child ahead of his own.

I think it really does depend on the airline. On some we're fine if the people in front recline, but we've been on charter flights where we've barely been able to use our table for a Coke, let alone a laptop, when the person in front reclines. We always try to get the exit row, but it's not always easy because the airlines we've used don't let you pre-book it. We always get to the airport about 3 hours early to try, but there are only so many of those seats. I must say that most of the airline staff at check in do try to find a comfortable seat for DH when they see how tall he is.

First class is not really an option, as it just raises the price so much for us - we're in Canada, and flights here are expensive! Due to family issues, we have to fly across the country quite often, at a cost of approximately $1800 in economy class for our family. And we really would like to sit together, so that would mean the extra cost of first class for DS and I too.

[bigbahamadada]

Intersting thread, just reading it now.

I fall into the non-reclining camp, depsite being 6'4. Do on to others . . . .

But, I have received as a gift a pair of "knee defenders." http://www.gadgetduck.com/goods/kneedefender-how-to.html?s

For those who haven't seen them, these are little wedges that go on the arms of your tray table to inhibit or eliminate the possibility the table will come hurtling towards you (with the tangential effect of rendering the seat in front of you unable to recline).

Haven't used them. Never needed to. But - I do carry them with me.

I actually think they are brilliant little gadget. As with nearly any situations, a little courtesy goes along way. But, say I was sitting behind someone who despite a courteous request, fell into the "it's my seat, I can do as I please" camp. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use these. After all, it's my tray table . . . I can do what I want. Right?

[JimP]

Intersting thread, just reading it now.

I fall into the non-reclining camp, depsite being 6'4. Do on to others . . . .

But, I have received as a gift a pair of "knee defenders." http://www.gadgetduck.com/goods/kneedefender-how-to.html?s

For those who haven't seen them, these are little wedges that go on the arms of your tray table to inhibit or eliminate the possibility the table will come hurtling towards you (with the tangential effect of rendering the seat in front of you unable to recline).

Haven't used them. Never needed to. But - I do carry them with me.

I actually think they are brilliant little gadget. As with nearly any situations, a little courtesy goes along way. But, say I was sitting behind someone who despite a courteous request, fell into the "it's my seat, I can do as I please" camp. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use these. After all, it's my tray table . . . I can do what I want. Right?

No you cannot do as you want with your seat. You are adding a device that interferes with the operation of the seat. I am 100% confident that the flight crew would require you to stop using it if pressed.

/Jim

[bigbahamadada]

FAA has specifically stated that they aren't a violation . . . so I'm not sure 100% is the right figure to ascribe.

[greenban]

FAA has specifically stated that they aren't a violation . . . so I'm not sure 100% is the right figure to ascribe.

Agreed. However, you do *HAVE* to comply with FA's directions and instructions, and if they say to remove the 'non-disallowed' device from another's seatback, you would have to comply, or face ejection/eviction at 39,000 ft!

-Tony

I have a foolproof way to deactivate said devices.......

http://www.abfnet.com/forum/images/smilies/farting.gif

[bigbahamadada]

I have a foolproof way to deactivate said devices.......


This kind of arms (or other body parts) race can only lead to mutually assured destruction.:yuck:

[bigbahamadada]

Also grateful for this thread giving me reason to look up the Knee Defender link . . . that "Scanner Bag" of theirs is pretty clever. Never seen that one before, but seems like a great concept.

Oh how I love clever travel gadets.

[Carol]

I very seldom recline. When I do, I always ask (warn) the person sitting behind me. I don't recline if the person behind me has a laptop sitting on the tray.

I would definitely use that knee defender thing to protect a laptop. I have read about people reclining and causing damage to a laptop. If I were using a laptop and the person wanted to recline, I would ask them to wait a minute so I could put the laptop away. I might sigh a bit and look put upon while I was doing it ;) ;) but I would do it.

[Carol]

...Starting on Monday I will be flying on a 1 1/2 week trip from Portland - Chicago - Frankfurt - Paris - Frankfurt - Dresden - Frankfurt - SF - Portland - SF - Taipei - SF - Portland. If I tried to do that without reclining I would end up in a body bag.

/Jim But surely your employer is paying for you to go Business Class (if not First Class). Since there is more room between rows in those classes, I can't imagine that anyone would complain about recliners.

Hope all goes well for you - that's a LOT of airplane time! Yck! Yck! and Double YCK!

[JimP]

But surely your employer is paying for you to go Business Class (if not First Class). Since there is more room between rows in those classes, I can't imagine that anyone would complain about recliners.

Hope all goes well for you - that's a LOT of airplane time! Yck! Yck! and Double YCK!

Negative. Corporate policy is coach for everyone in the company... including CEO. Every now and then we might get an upgrade by the airline... but they are far and few between.

/Jim

[bavaria]

oooh, good, another controversial thread where I can get into trouble!! :upsidedow

All these 'new' faces! Some of you may not know me, but like Jim I am a very frequent traveller. I travel about 300 days a year, and basically commute on an airplane. Last year I flew something like 200,000 miles. I have been in seven countries in three continents in under two weeks.

My trips often sound like Jim's upcoming trip. I use my plane time to catch up on sleep, as I cross multiple time zones in a week, and often stay up very late into the morning trying to catch people in Europe, or Asia or North America.

I have no qualms at all about reclining on an aircraft. The seats were made to recline, and there is no rule about not reclining.

One thing that those of you who do not 'know' me should realise - I have been severely claustrophobic my entire life. Small things set me off - I wear my clothes a size too big, for instance. Every time I board an aircraft I take control of myself and fight a battle not to panic.

Yet even on a CR7, I manage if the person in front of me reclines. It may not be absolutely comfortable, but I dispute the claim that anyone's head is in my lap.

I suspect that most of the posters who feel that 'recliners are poopyheads' tend to fly a few times a year, for short trips. If you were flying the long trips that Jim and I fly, I suspect that your opinion would change.

[bavaria]

Since there is more room between rows in those classes, I can't imagine that anyone would complain about recliners.

So you would think! I have had someone complain about me reclining while flying in F (albeit on an A320, but there is still significant pitch in those seats)

And since breaking my tailbone a few years ago, I don't even recline those seats all the way back. I suspect that it was just an 'anti-recliner' who objected to reclining in general, regardless of the fact that I was barely encroaching into her space.

[JimP]

I wish I could fly business or first. I actually have a doctor's excuse to fly biz on any flight over 3 hours... but I have never exercised it.

The reason is as follows: Debbie and I went to Fiji a couple years ago. We flew coach at about $850 each. It would have cost an extra $2500 each to upgrade to biz... and I simply was not willing to pay the extra $5000 out of pocket. Instead.... I got up and walked back and forth for a good portion of the flight.

If I am not willing to pay out of pocket... I do not feel justified to break corporate policy. I long for the days when biz class was standard for long flights... but it is not something that is part of my companies culture. The standard I set for my staff is to spend money as if it is your own.

/Jim

[bavaria]

If I am not willing to pay out of pocket... I do not feel justified to break corporate policy. I long for the days when biz class was standard for long flights... but it is not something that is part of my companies culture. The standard I set for my staff is to spend money as if it is your own./Jim

A great standard! Sometimes I think that people don't understand that fiscal responsibility exists in the business world. I too treat my employer's money as if it were my own. While I may have generous allowances for certain things, I don't use them very often. In fact, I most likely spend a little too much time trying to save a few dollars here and there, even if they are not my own.

I also think that there is the faulty vision of the 'business traveller' as some sort of 1970's hedonistic traveller, who sits in First and is entertained by charming FAs, then climbs into a limo to head to the hotel and toss back a few martinis.

I will admit to having a car and driver sometimes; but that is prudent in some parts of the world. I am also the first to decline renting a car in a city where I am close to everything...

Well, I did managed to drift quite far off topic, so please return your seatback to the upright position and continue to discuss reclining!

[JimP]

A great standard! Sometimes I think that people don't understand that fiscal responsibility exists in the business world. I too treat my employer's money as if it were my own. While I may have generous allowances for certain things, I don't use them very often. In fact, I most likely spend a little too much time trying to save a few dollars here and there, even if they are not my own.

I also think that there is the faulty vision of the 'business traveller' as some sort of 1970's hedonistic traveller, who sits in First and is entertained by charming FAs, then climbs into a limo to head to the hotel and toss back a few martinis.

I will admit to having a car and driver sometimes; but that is prudent in some parts of the world. I am also the first to decline renting a car in a city where I am close to everything...

Well, I did managed to drift quite far off topic, so please return your seatback to the upright position and continue to discuss reclining!

Biz travel is surely a whole lot less fun than personal travel. I almost never rent a car overseas. Never once in Asia... and only twice in Europe. Once when I was in Scotland... and a 2nd time with Debbie and the 3 kids on a personal trip to Europe. We spend a week each in London/Paris using public transportation... then rented a car for the last 3 days when we drove up to Brussels/Amsterdam.

In the US... it is a mixed bag. Most places I need a car to get around. However, if I am solely staying in NYC, SF, etc... then I will skip it. I almost always get a car at MCO. :)

/Jim

[greenban]

I wish I could fly business or first. I actually have a doctor's excuse to fly biz on any flight over 3 hours... but I have never exercised it.

The reason is as follows: Debbie and I went to Fiji a couple years ago. We flew coach at about $850 each. It would have cost an extra $2500 each to upgrade to biz... and I simply was not willing to pay the extra $5000 out of pocket. Instead.... I got up and walked back and forth for a good portion of the flight.

If I am not willing to pay out of pocket... I do not feel justified to break corporate policy. I long for the days when biz class was standard for long flights... but it is not something that is part of my companies culture. The standard I set for my staff is to spend money as if it is your own.

/Jim

/Jim:

How do I word said Doctor's Note? Can I write one for myself?

Who pays for the upgrade?

-Tony

[tinkerbella's mom]

/Jim:

How do I word said Doctor's Note? Can I write one for myself?

Who pays for the upgrade?

-Tony

HMM... how about: Please be advised the above named patient has Ideopathic Tall Stature and requires seating in an exit row or other appropriate available spaceous seating. Prolonged flexion of his lengthy lower extremities in an airplane puts said patient at increased risk for DVTs. Any added fees may be billed to patients insurance company under category: medical necessity.
Any further questions you may contact my office at:
Best University Medical Center
Main St. Somewhere, USA. 123- 555-1234

Thanking you in advance

Doctor's name here

[JimP]

/Jim:

How do I word said Doctor's Note? Can I write one for myself?

Who pays for the upgrade?

-Tony

Mine just states that for medical reasons I should not sit in coach for flights longer the 3 hours.

It is for my company... who would be the ones footing the bill. Our corporate policy does allow biz class for medical necessity. My doctor intentionally kept it vague on my request. I didn't want the fact of "being tall" to be challenged as a medical necessity.

As I said... I never did turn it in. I just have too hard of a time justifying the extra expense since I would probably not pay it out of pocket for personal travel.

Reason #2... if I was to upgrade to biz class... I would be unable to get into a dualing knees fight with Tammy.

/Jim

[beaskelly]

I sure agree that the woman was so rude. I am happy if the kid sleep so I can have a little solitary on my trip.

The last time of our travel to Virginia just only me and the kids, we visited DH there for his 5 months off station job. The woman behind us does not want my son to stand up on his seat and play his car toy even though the belt sign went off. She kept staring my son and glaring at him and I just ignore it. He is happy while he was playing on the seat rolling his car from his arm rest going up with a sound brooommmm....Of course, it is lightning Mc Queen and it is his favorite toy. He was trying to entertain himself and did not do anything to the people behind us. When the toy fell she did not give it to my son but she hide it. I knew she hide it because I was looking on the floor and I could not find it. I looked n the window side if it is fell on there- it was not there. I was asking her nicely if she seen it falling on her side. She said she did not. My 8-month old daughter was a bit fussy and wanted me to nurse her and this woman give me trouble.

Of course my son was crying so loud and since I am talking in different language, I was cursing her with other language because I was so upset. And then I told to my son to stop crying and we will buy another car. He won't listen to me by giving him a promised to buy a new one. My son kept crying and crying- asking me to find his car. I was dealing his cry and my daughter wanted me to nurse her. I was telling to myself that I am not gonna travel myself with the kids anymore. But I am going to do it again this July 18 going to the Phil.

So I feel sorry for the parents who are traveling with their kids and they get fussy when they were tired and sleepy. I know that when the kids are tired and sleepy, they did not know how to handle with it. But give us a cry and a big fuss....but to recline the seat?????. That is so rude that the woman has the nerved to tell you not to recline the seat. Good for her she heard your son's cry and fuss but I feel sorry for you to deal with.

[diva452]

My thoughts.

If I"m paying for a seat that reclines, then I'm going to recline. Too bad if the person behind me doesn't like it. It's my seat, I paid for it and I'll recline it. If they don't like kids, tuff cookies too!!!! Go sit in First Class! Shut up and let me be. Kids fly, deal with it.

DD and I sat in coach (while DH was in first) on our way from LAX to Oralndo and we had 3 seats. If someone was acting like a jerk behind me then I would have reclined all 3 seats! It's my perogative!!!! DD and I sat in First Class (while DH was in coach with extra seats) on the way back and we fully reclined too! No one complained and if they did then too bad.

It's an airplane, it's just the way it is. Kids fly, deal with it. People can be really stupid and rude. :rant: Parents should not have to apologize for their kids, especially if they are being good.

[tinkerbella's mom]

Mine just states that for medical reasons I should not sit in coach for flights longer the 3 hours.

It is for my company... who would be the ones footing the bill. Our corporate policy does allow biz class for medical necessity. My doctor intentionally kept it vague on my request. I didn't want the fact of "being tall" to be challenged as a medical necessity.

As I said... I never did turn it in. I just have too hard of a time justifying the extra expense since I would probably not pay it out of pocket for personal travel.

Reason #2... if I was to upgrade to biz class... I would be unable to get into a dualing knees fight with Tammy.

/Jim

Jim my post was an attempt to answer the Doc's funny question with my sarcastic humor (albeit somewhat warped). As a healthcare provider he'll get it., and BTW I doubth any insurance comp. I've ever dealt with would by my given reason (ht) as a medical necessity excuse. They are dictating what meds they cover. Your doctor's note to an airline should be vague, other detailed info strictly need to know basis. Next flight sit in fron of anyone my ht. missed 5'2 barely, then you can recline without any fight of dualing knees.

Getting back to the OP, I do recline, and will do so to my kids seats if they need to rest. As an adult I would rather have a happy comfortable child during a flight even if it causes me some discomfort. Sorry the original poster and her child went through that ordeal.

[bavaria]

I am not one of those evil eyed flyers who groans and shakes their heads when kids and families board, because I have seen more adults behave poorly than children on my many many flights.

On my last two long haul flights it was adults who kept me awake most of the flights, not kids (and that was with the eyeshade and noise cancelling headphones and lie flat bed) :rolleyes:

[JimP]

On my last two long haul flights it was adults who kept me awake most of the flights, not kids (and that was with the eyeshade and noise cancelling headphones and lie flat bed) :rolleyes:

bavaria,

The lie flat bed is making me feel very jealous right now. I am leaving for the airport in a few hours... and fly coach!!!

/Jim

[Deirdre]

I am a firm believer if you take your children on a plane,
they should be well behaved. And you should be a competent
parent. No one wants to hear any excuses why your monster
screamed for three hours or can't keep on a seat belt or runs
up and down the aisle. Drive from Alaska if they are not socialized.
On our last flight out an infant cried for most of the flight. That was
heart breaking because the poor kid truely sounded like it was in pain.
However, on the way back a family consisting of dad, mom, preschooler
and 2.5 year old made the trip hell for an entire plane load of passengers.
The 2.5 year old was lying on his mothers lap and screaming. Not crying,
screaming. The mother made no effort to comfort, talk to or otherwise engage
said noise machine. Neither did dad on the other side of the preschooler.
As a parent of 3 children, I know the difference between a cry of pain and
screaming due to being ****** off. Parents, if your children are not well behaved
do not inflict them on a captive plane load of people. There is NO excuse.
Adults, be polite. Flying is stressful enough. Ask before reclining seats.
And for the love of God, Will some airline offer child free flights? Or at least put
Children 5 and under in the tail section behind a sound proof wall? Even some churches offer that option. In the last few years airlines have improved their handling of loud obnoxious drunks. Now it's time to deal with loud obnoxous children. Not children with ear pain. Children that are a pain. Maybe an
in cabin sound proof box. Hockey style. :ROTFL:

Deirdre

[greenban]

Jim my post was an attempt to answer the Doc's funny question with my sarcastic humor (albeit somewhat warped). As a healthcare provider he'll get it., and BTW I doubth any insurance comp. I've ever dealt with would by my given reason (ht) as a medical necessity excuse. They are dictating what meds they cover. Your doctor's note to an airline should be vague, other detailed info strictly need to know basis. Next flight sit in fron of anyone my ht. missed 5'2 barely, then you can recline without any fight of dualing knees.

Getting back to the OP, I do recline, and will do so to my kids seats if they need to rest. As an adult I would rather have a happy comfortable child during a flight even if it causes me some discomfort. Sorry the original poster and her child went through that ordeal.

TB'sMom:

You were being sarcastic?

I just wrote and sold 5 of those notes off my website!

;)

-Tony

[tinkerbella's mom]

TB'sMom:

You were being sarcastic?

I just wrote and sold 5 of those notes off my website!

;)

-Tony

LOL, In that case I should get a commission which I will happily give up for some of that "magic kool-aid" to help DS sleep 1st night of our next trip to WDW 11/1.
:laughing:

[mountainjourno]

I am a firm believer if you take your children on a plane,
they should be well behaved. And you should be a competent
parent. No one wants to hear any excuses why your monster
screamed for three hours or can't keep on a seat belt or runs
up and down the aisle. Drive from Alaska if they are not socialized.
On our last flight out an infant cried for most of the flight. That was
heart breaking because the poor kid truely sounded like it was in pain.
However, on the way back a family consisting of dad, mom, preschooler
and 2.5 year old made the trip hell for an entire plane load of passengers.
The 2.5 year old was lying on his mothers lap and screaming. Not crying,
screaming. The mother made no effort to comfort, talk to or otherwise engage
said noise machine. Neither did dad on the other side of the preschooler.
As a parent of 3 children, I know the difference between a cry of pain and
screaming due to being ****** off. Parents, if your children are not well behaved
do not inflict them on a captive plane load of people. There is NO excuse.
Adults, be polite. Flying is stressful enough. Ask before reclining seats.
And for the love of God, Will some airline offer child free flights? Or at least put
Children 5 and under in the tail section behind a sound proof wall? Even some churches offer that option. In the last few years airlines have improved their handling of loud obnoxious drunks. Now it's time to deal with loud obnoxous children. Not children with ear pain. Children that are a pain. Maybe an
in cabin sound proof box. Hockey style. :ROTFL:

Deirdre

Wow - you sound like such a compassionate person - a real example for us all. Thank you for your words of wisdom. Now, since you brought up the topic of obnoxious people...

[greenban]

Wow - you sound like such a compassionate person - a real example for us all. Thank you for your words of wisdom. Now, since you brought up the topic of obnoxious people...

Diedre, Yo Go Girl!

You're right!

-Tony

[tammymacb]

:iagree:

If the screaming children aren't frustrating, the nonchalant parents who are

A) completely ignoring their behavior

OR

B) letting them out of their seats so they can then cry and bring it even closer to me

I hate to fly. I'll be on a plane at 1105 to MCO. Considering half a valium in a couple hours.

[BONZO]

So,

Which one are you?

Airline Types

Hey, it's Bertha the Hut and Laptop Louie!

Airline Types
Hey, it's Bertha the Hut and Laptop Louie!

For those who fly frequently, there is nothing like coming onto an airplane and meeting the same types that you have met countless times before. You know, the irritating people that have been placed next to you to cause you as much discomfort as possible during the long flight ahead.

A common technique for 'dealing with difficult people" is to think of a humorous anecdote. In light of this, here then are 32 airplane personalities you are bound to meet on your next flight. The gender of the personality is interchangeable in every instance. Martha Marinade, with her perfume, could easily be Mickey Marinade with his after-shave. See how many you remember meeting.

1) Sammy Sniffler: Sammy has a cold and instead of blowing his nose (he thinks it is rude to do so in public) he sniffs-oh, 10-20 times a minute for the entire 5 hour flight.

2) Bertha the Hut: Cousin to Jabba the Hut (of Star Wars fame) Bertha overflows in her seat into your territory and no matter how much you shift to avoid physical contact, Bertha is there, oblivious to your discomfort. Bertha may also be identified as always having the use of two full armrests, one of which, of course, belongs to you.

3) Wendell Wobbly: Wendell is having balance problems as he sits in his seat. His cutlery won't stay on the tray; his glass is sitting on a ridge, and his napkin is somewhere near his feet (or your feet). Hope you know a dry cleaner at your destination, because you will need one

4) Martha Marinade: Martha has put on her usual amount of perfume – about 3 gallons. She wants everyone to experience that mystifying aroma yet everyone, including you, is gagging from the overpowering smell.


5) Diurnal Dan: Dan used a nightlight when he was younger-probably for his first 32 years. On the flight he will never turn the reading light off-during the movie, when the window shades are up, even when he is sleeping.


6) Sneak-a-peek Sam: The window shades are drawn so everyone can watch the movie, but Sam wants to make sure that everything outside is still there-so he constantly lifts up the shade, thereby allowing blinding bright shafts of light into the cabin and into your eyes.


7) Peek-a-boo Pam: That adorable four year old who befriends you in the first five minutes of the flight and then decides to play with you, for the next five hours. Peek-a-boo is the favourite. The parents think it is "cute".


8) Hide-a-way Harry: The person who sits by the window in a three-seat configuration and does not speak or move for the entire flight. He refuses all meals, does not use the washroom and usually hides under the blanket.


9) Tammy Tippler: Tammy starts drinking with the first free round and quickly makes friends with the flight attendants, who think it is cheery and friendly to keep plying Tammy with alcohol. She never gets drunk, but where does she put it all?


10) Revelation Rob: The person who talks in a loud voice so that everyone knows who he is, what he does for a living, who he was with last night, where he has flown before and on and on.


11) Reclining Rita: The minute the seat belt sign is turned off at the beginning of the flight, Rita has to fully recline her seat-and it stays that way. When the flight attendant moves it upright for the meal, the seat comes back down the second Rita's tray is collected. This allows you about 5 inches to read, write and sit without having your kneecaps bruised.

12) Cynthia Sky-Phone: Cynthia uses the sky-phone from the moment the seat belt sign comes off to just minutes before landing. She is calling everyone she knows, expressing angst in a loud voice over business plans, personal plans and anything else that may draw attention to how important she must be.


13) Loquacious Larry: He is the seatmate who does not stop talking to you from the second you sit down at the beginning of the flight. Even when you attempt to sleep, Larry will talk on-as if you are awake, and he has no problem waking you up to ask you biting questions such as "are those the Rocky Mountains down there"?


14) Alyson Agent: Cousin to Loquacious Larry, Alyson must know everything about you. She offers very little about herself, and you are afraid to ask her anything, lest she dote on herself for the entire flight. You try to be polite as your patience is put to the test.


15) Negative Norman: He is the person who finds fault with everything. The flight is taking off late, the flight attendant did not greet him properly, the air conditioning is not working, his headset does not work, the pretzels are stale and on and on.

[BONZO]

16) Weeping Wanda: Wanda is below the age of two and is expressing her feelings freely, by crying. Unfortunately she is on the lap of the person next to you and Wanda is loud and no other seats are available. Normally Wanda stops crying when she is carried, but on this flight, her trip through the cabin serves as a wake up call to every passenger as her whining takes on new degrees of strength and pitch.


17) Neophyte Ned: Ned has never flown before and does not know how to use anything. He needs help with the seatbelt, can not figure out how to open the washroom door, or to exit once he has finished. He has no idea where to plug in the headset and everytime he tries to adjust the volume, he pushes the call button and an attendant rushes over.


18) Proselytizing Pearl: Pearl has found religion and wants everyone to share in her joy. You are sitting next to Pearl for this long, long flight and Pearl is determined to give you books, pamphlets, flyers and sermons on why she is happy and free and why you should be too.


19) Tommy Territory: Tommy had a three-seat bank all to himself. As soon as the seat belt sign is turned off, he plans to spread out to dissuade anyone from invading his territory. You have given your aisle seat up so a couple could sit together and, at the last minute before take off-the flight attendant sits you down in Tommy's Territory. Daggers fly from his eyes and he is, shall we say, "grumbly" to you for the rest of the flight.


20) Marion Librarian: Marion loves to read. As she enters the plane to find her seat, she empties the magazine rack, takes a few newspapers and stuffs them all in her seat pouch. She never reads them-she just wants them, and at the end of the flight, they leave the plane with her.


21) Glen the Grocer: Glen is related to Marion, but his specialty is food. He eats very little but stuffs everything into his carry-on bag. The cheese from breakfast, the orange juice, the small bottles of liquor he orders, a bun from lunch and, not surprising, the cutlery from dinner.


22) Brushing Betty: Betty has long, straight, brown hair. One way to keep it long and straight is to brush it-which she does, at least forty times over the course of the flight. She does this in the seat next to you, flinging her hair to whatever side you are sitting on-or she may be in the seat in front of you, tossing her hair over the back of her chair and into your breakfast tray.


23) Aisle-be-there-Albert: Albert likes to fly because he is rarely restricted to his seat. Albert, you see, owns the aisle and he stays there constantly. He sits on the arm of your chair, he leans heavily on your seat back while he chats to a friend behind you, and he gets a bit miffed when other passengers want to pass him in the narrow aisles. Albert, of course, MUST be the first to deplane after arriving at the destination and he will push and shove to make this dream come true.


24) Squirrelly Sally: Sally always arrives late, after all the overhead compartment space is full. Sally always ignores the airline regulations and has too many carry-ons. She then proceeds to squirrel-away her bags in many different compartments. On arrival at the destination, Sally holds up the plane while she must go back and find each and every bag before letting others pass her place in line.


25) Laptop Louie: Louie is a nice guy. He smiles, he is courteous and he is a laptop fanatic. As soon as it is allowed, he turns on the laptop and all you hear for the next 5 hours is the puckety-puckety sound of the keyboard.


26) Voracious Violet: Violet is a lovely person with a sparkling personality. She is a savvy person who gives an impression of sophistication and success. When the food arrives, her "Dr. Jekyll" personna emerges. She attacks the tin foil on the hot plate with desperation, her arms are flailing and anyone in the vicinity is clearly edged out of the way. An elbow in her eating area is quickly expunged from the feeding ground. Moments after she begins, just as you are about to finish the first item on your tray, Violet puts away her tray, a big smile on her face. Her feeding frenzy has abated-for the time being.

27) Laughing Lenny: Lenny appreciates good humour and he is extraverted enough to be able to laugh out loud from time to time. When he puts on the airline headphones, Lenny becomes transported to another world. Oblivious to all around him, he loudly laughs, guffaws, titters, oohs and aahs with every perceived joke on the airline movie screen in front of him. You look up the first time and fail to see the humour, but each time you resume your sleeping or reading, Lenny is broadcasting his laugh-ability.


28) Business Class Boris: Boris was born to fly business class and he wants everyone to know it. The comfort and joy of upscale travel is only second in importance to the thrill of having everyone see that you are in business class. In the boarding lounge, when priority seating is announced, Boris makes a grand theatrical departure. During the flight Boris makes numerous trips to the back of the economy section only to catch a few eyes and have them follow him back to his business class paradise. Boris is a firm believer in class structure and therefore when the curtain separating business class from economy seating is left open, he peers out into economy to glare at the huddled masses and then with the expertise of flight attendant, he curtly snaps the curtain shut to protect his domain.


29) Snoring Sandra: You are looking forward to a relaxing flight…maybe get some work done…maybe read that new novel…until Sandra sits down, closes her eyes and starts to saw the wood. We are not talking about a slight wheeze here and there but a full blown nasal, pyrotechnical production akin to the closing movement of the 1812 Overture. Your peace is destroyed. You cover your ears, cower and hurry to put the earphones on and crank up the volume.


30) Herbert Halitosis: Herbert has bad breath and every time he tried to chat, you reel back due to the odour. You offer Herbert a mint or some chewing gum, and he declines, much to your chagrin. What is worse, is when Herbert falls asleep, and his head lolls in your direction. The only remedy is to make enough noise to walk him up or go for a log walk in the plane.


31) Lance Long Legs: Lance has no carry-on to store under the seat in front of him--so he uses it to store his long, long legs. Lance travels in economy--so he needs all his leg space--as well as yours (in the seat in front of him). As he stretches out, he rests the soles of his shoes on your nice clean trousers for the duration of the flight.


32) Pick of the Litter Paula: Someone drops the plastic bag from their headset in the middle of the aisle right next to Paula. She ignores it as if to say it is not her job to pick it up-even though it may pose a slippery danger to anyone walking by. After the flight attendant nearly does the splits by sliding on the plastic, Paula feigns concern but by that time the litter has been picked up.

[JimP]

On my flight from Chicago to Paris today, I counted seats a few times... and on average (not counting meal times)... 92% were reclined.

Being an international flight... I think the numbers were skewed higher than domestic flights... especially compared to short (ie: 2 hour) hops.

/Jim

[TinkWink]

I never say anything either when the person in front of me reclines their seat. I am short with short legs and it is generally not all that uncomfortable for me. But I understand that it can be for some folks. There are times you just have to speak up, but I believe most of us do this in a friendly, respectful fashion. When you are rudely rebuffed by the "manners-challenged", just chalk it up to a bad day, terminal ignorance and/or summon the flight attendant, whatever your comfort level dictates.

Rude behavior is just wrong. Let's face it, none of us flying in coach is exactly in the comfort zone. We have to do the best we can, taking the needs of other people into consideration. Airline travel is not getting any easier and many of us are unhappy with all of the extra fees we get hit with. And then they put us in a sardine can (with no free drinks!) and tell us to relax and enjoy the flight. :rolleyes: The old adage "half the fun is getting there" no longer applies to airline travel. But treating fellow passengers with compassion, consideration and humor does help a lot.

And I think you did the right thing. When it comes to children, making them feel comfortable and safe should be a high priority. "Adults" should know better.

[JimP]

On my flight from Chicago to Paris today, I counted seats a few times... and on average (not counting meal times)... 92% were reclined.

Being an international flight... I think the numbers were skewed higher than domestic flights... especially compared to short (ie: 2 hour) hops.

/Jim

Survey #2:

On a flight from SF to Taipei, June 22/23, 94.4% of all the seats in the coach section were reclined during the mid-flight.

You can tell how boring these flight are when I count seats. LOL

/Jim

[Carol]

Survey #2:

On a flight from SF to Taipei, June 22/23, 94.4% of all the seats in the coach section were reclined during the mid-flight.

You can tell how boring these flight are when I count seats. LOL

/Jim

How to recognize "Mid-Flight"

1. No more clicking noises. Laptop batteries have died.
2. Passengers walking the aisles counting reclined seats.


:hahahaha::hahahaha::hahahaha:

[greenban]

Much like the ressie changes, I just don't get all the hubbub and emotions here :innocent:

For me it is real simple, if a DISser is infront of me, I pull on the back of their seat and kick it all flight long, behind me, I recline fully, frequently (especially when I hear keyboarding sounds, or drinks have just be served).

For MOsers, I sit straight and quietly.

Works for me.

-Tony

[JimP]

How to recognize "Mid-Flight"

1. No more clicking noises. Laptop batteries have died.
2. Passengers walking the aisles counting reclined seats.


:hahahaha::hahahaha::hahahaha:

Carol... that pretty much sums it up... except I counted seats NOT reclined :)

/Jim

[greenban]

Carol... that pretty much sums it up... except I counted seats NOT reclined :)

/Jim

Now that's a reverse engineering approach!

-Tony

[JimP]

Now that's a reverse engineering approach!

-Tony

I did not count on today's flight from Taipei to SFO... but it looked close to 100% like the other international flights I have been on.

The Domestic Recline Percentage (commonly known as DRP) ;) ... will be much lower. If I don't fall asleep before the seat belt sign is extinquished this morning... maybe I will check. My guess would be about 50%.

/Jim

[doombuggy]

OMG, I can't believe this lady had the stones to tell you to put the seat up! I try not to put my seat back b/c I hate when people in front of me do, but if someone does, I sure don't complain! Your poor son! Did he end up suggling with his mom? Maybe you should ahve swapped the two kids seats...

Best wishes on your next trip!

[bernie]

I agree with everyone. That woman was extremely rude and it is too bad you just did not leave your seat reclined. I always recline my seat and my daughter also., She has epilepsy and always needs a window seat so she can sleep through most of the flight. If she had reclined her seat and someone behind us was as rude as that woman behind you I would have said my daughter needs to sleep and that would have been that. As others have said you sometimes have to put others who have problems ahead of your own comfort. There have been times when I have actually played peekaboo with some children to help the parent while they are screaming. Most of us have had small children at some point (apparently this woman did not, or if she did you can tell she didn't like her own children) and so most of us have an understanding of what might happen to children if you put them on a plane with no place to run. Also, their ears hurt sometimes. I always bring ear plugs for my daughter who is now grown as her ears always bothered her. Sorry for your ordeal, next time tell them to suck it up.

[ford91exploder]

Trouble with the legacy carriers is that the seats were designed for a 40" seat pitch (40 inches between seat backs) now they are 33" if you are lucky and 30" if you are not and most airlines jam 150 or so seats into a 737 SWA only puts 137 seats on a plane so even if the pax in front of you reclines there is still some knee room.

I fly SWA because I used to be in Aviation myself - (HQ puke) and I will only fly on planes maintained by someone who cares about them. I am also a bit taller than normal and the seating is comfortable for me even without reclining!. Plus SWA adds really bad jokes to my collection...

[Buena_Vista_Mom]

I am a firm believer if you take your children on a plane,
they should be well behaved. And you should be a competent
parent. No one wants to hear any excuses why your monster
screamed for three hours or can't keep on a seat belt or runs
up and down the aisle. Drive from Alaska if they are not socialized.
On our last flight out an infant cried for most of the flight. That was
heart breaking because the poor kid truely sounded like it was in pain.
However, on the way back a family consisting of dad, mom, preschooler
and 2.5 year old made the trip hell for an entire plane load of passengers.
The 2.5 year old was lying on his mothers lap and screaming. Not crying,
screaming. The mother made no effort to comfort, talk to or otherwise engage
said noise machine. Neither did dad on the other side of the preschooler.
As a parent of 3 children, I know the difference between a cry of pain and
screaming due to being ****** off. Parents, if your children are not well behaved
do not inflict them on a captive plane load of people. There is NO excuse.
Adults, be polite. Flying is stressful enough. Ask before reclining seats.
And for the love of God, Will some airline offer child free flights? Or at least put
Children 5 and under in the tail section behind a sound proof wall? Even some churches offer that option. In the last few years airlines have improved their handling of loud obnoxious drunks. Now it's time to deal with loud obnoxous children. Not children with ear pain. Children that are a pain. Maybe an
in cabin sound proof box. Hockey style. :ROTFL:

Deirdre

I'll make sure my screaming "monsters" are seated right next to you.....have a nice trip....