RUMOR: Potential Reservation System Changes May Result In Cancellations!!

[greenban]

Hey guys and girls, I have this info from only one MS-Advisor, but I choose to believe her.

Today I called to update some DME flight info, and she told, me that very shortly (once the 'NEW' computer system is up and running) that name changes will no longer be allowed for existing reservations!!!

Specifically, that the software will not permit name changes/additions or deletions to existing reservations. Confirmation letters will now list each guest, and any errors must be reported to MS where a supervisor can make spelling corrections. I expressed my great concern about this policy, as we have never yet had a vacation where all 5 of us were listed correctly, and this last vacation, my DD Rebecca, was not on the ressie at all. (BTW, the conf. letter indicated 5 guests, at check-in Guest # 5 was a blank).

I also said, I expect this to create much more work for the MS-Advisors, correcting all the errors and misspellings.

My Advisor replied, that this is specifically being done to prevent speculation bookings of the Holidays, and if names need to be added or deleted, the ressie will be cancelled, and only rebooked if available.

Note this is not a change to the lead check-in name, it will be to any names on the ressie.

I'm not sure if I believe this or not, but everyone keep your ears open. I have a RIBIT out to Deep Croaker!

-Tony

I'll poll this question once confirmed!

[ghost1000]

That's going to be quite a headache for Member Services, if it's true.

[magicmommy]

I called this afternoon to add DME to our April ressie and to make some room requests. I was not informed of this change FWIW.

[mountainjourno]

That's ridiculous. I can understand them choosing to keep the person who the lead-check in the same, but to not allow them to change who comes with them is crazy! So many families and friends have last-minute changes when one or more family members may or may not be able to come. I was in that very position last week when my husband wasn't sure whether or not he'd be called back to work from our trip (he was). All this will lead to is dishonesty - sneaking people into the rooms who are not booked, and failing to mention when people who are booked don't arrive (assuming no dining plan of course).

I really hope this doesn't eventuate, especially having just added on 200 more points during my trip last week!

[Rozzie]

That's ridiculous. I can understand them choosing to keep the person who the lead-check in the same, but to not allow them to change who comes with them is crazy! So many families and friends have last-minute changes when one or more family members may or may not be able to come. I was in that very position last week when my husband wasn't sure whether or not he'd be called back to work from our trip (he was). All this will lead to is dishonesty - sneaking people into the rooms who are not booked, and failing to mention when people who are booked don't arrive (assuming no dining plan of course).

I really hope this doesn't eventuate, especially having just added on 200 more points during my trip last week!


I totally agree, and coudn't have said it better myself.

At the end of the day, they are MY points, and I should be able to change my mind, add people, delete people or whatever the heck I want without having to cancel the ressie. I know just this past week I had to cancel "my spot" and add another member who will be going in my place, and they made no mention of this new rule. I hope it doesn't come to pass, as I have always had last minute changes (Mr Roz can come? can't come? who will I bring, etc), and it will really start to devalue my membership.

If they are so running scared about renters, then go after the renters, not the innocent members.

[bigbahamadada]

I like the spirit of the change; anything to hamper the ease of speculative bookings is a winner to me. But I am deeply skeptical they will be able to implement it with any degree competence.

On my last visit, confirmation listed 6 guests, and I had given the guests names several times during the booking process. When we arrived at VWL only my name appeared on the reservation. It then took 15+ minutes, and several failed attempts, for the CM to reenter the party.

And it would seem to me that this would also require that they check ID when people check in at the hotel. On our last trip, I had a bit of a chuckle noting how many times I'm asked for ID at WDW -- using DDE, renewing APs, ordering wine (oh, my youthful good looks - not). But for the biggest expense of the trip, my DVC room, no ID was requested to check in and get 6 keys.

[crazywig]

At the end of the day, they are MY points, and I should be able to change my mind, add people, delete people or whatever the heck I want without having to cancel the ressie.

My thoughts exactly!!!

If this is true i'll be more than annoyed. If I'm booking multiple units for my extended family trip at 11 months out, there is no way I can be sure just who is going and what room they'll need (ie: who's taking my mom in their unit :Paranoid: )

This can't be true. They will have a lot of seriously angry owners on their hands.

[jbrowna]

I'm one who has to agree that this is completely crazy!:mad:

DW and I usually have our airline tickets and such in advance, but our two daughters often don't know when/if they can join us because of work schedules and such. What difference does it make who is on the reservation (after the lead name), as long as the number doesn't exceed the capacity of the room? It's not like additional guests change the point requirement. If I book a studio for x number of points per night, it can accommodate from 1-4 guests (5 at AKV). If I start out thinking only 2 of us will be there, and at the last minute my DD is able to make it, why shouldn't I be able to add her -- even if I do it at check in?

I, for one, think the MS computer system is currently lacking -- so they're changing to a "new" system just to make things worse? And don't even get me started about the website..... Why don't they get rid of all the fancy widgets and flash videos and songs that slow the whole thing down so much, and just concentrate on making the darn thing RELIABLE!!! :faint:

(Rant over due to mental exhaustion just thinking about it....)

[erikthewise]

So what happens when you show up a person short? Will they refuse to give you a room? That will make the current confrontations about the added gratuities on the dining plan look like a garden party. They'd better double their security if they plan on enforcing this.

In the meanwhile, the Owners Locker people could consider getting into another service: "renting" an extra guest or two to fill out a "short" arrival party. Complete with fake IDs. Or just the fake IDs for those who had to make a change.

[carolina_yankee]

If this is true as presented to Tony, then it's a policy that will last not much longer than 15 minutes.

There is absolutely no way DVC will penalize someone for changing a name or two on their reservation as long as the owner is also on the reservation and still survive.

I suspect they might implement a policy on name changes for reservations when the owner is not on the reservation, but even then - kicking out a reservation because I'm switching Aunt Minnie for Grandpa Walt is still not going to go over well.

Dirk

[nocknock]

Wow! That would be terrible. I have a reservation in my name for next week and I can not go, but my points are going bad at the end of this month. I sending my sister and changing the name tomorrow...

I would have an absolute fit if they would not let me change the name.

We should all contact DVC and let them know that this would not be acceptable.


Does anyone know who we can contact?

[Niki]

This is wrong on so many levels. This is my HOME! I should be able to have anyone I want stay with me, as long as I don't break the rules and invite too many people. If one person intends to stay with me, and for some reason wants to cancel or bring another friend/spouse/child, I can't do it without putting my ressie at risk? If so, it is not really a "home away from home.":(

[nocknock]

Disney is making this less and less attractive. All of the changes lately seem to be about making it more favorable for Disney and less for the people who are spending a lot of money each year. I get more and more disappointed with DVC.

[carolina_yankee]

Disney is making this less and less attractive. All of the changes lately seem to be about making it more favorable for Disney and less for the people who are spending a lot of money each year. I get more and more disappointed with DVC.

Remember - this is rumor! I trust Tony to accurately share the information he's given, but I really think the CM may have confused what could be coming down the pike. There is no way Disney can scuttle a person's reservation or points like this - if we have an ownership, Disney can't interfere with our ability to use that ownership within legitimate boundaries - specifically as spelled out in the Public Offering Statement.

Another possibility is that Disney is known to be tracking owners who appear to be renting their points out on a more than casual basis. I wouldn't put it past MS to feed some disinformation to those owners in order to discourage them a little.

Whatever your feelings on renting, I would want to see this policy actually announced before I got all irate. I just don't see it happening, at least not as presented in the rumor mill.

Dirk

[greenban]

Remember - this is rumor! I trust Tony to accurately share the information he's given, but I really think the CM may have confused what could be coming down the pike. There is no way Disney can scuttle a person's reservation or points like this - if we have an ownership, Disney can't interfere with our ability to use that ownership within legitimate boundaries - specifically as spelled out in the Public Offering Statement.

Another possibility is that Disney is known to be tracking owners who appear to be renting their points out on a more than casual basis. I wouldn't put it past MS to feed some disinformation to those owners in order to discourage them a little.

Whatever your feelings on renting, I would want to see this policy actually announced before I got all irate. I just don't see it happening, at least not as presented in the rumor mill.

Dirk

Dirk is right on target.

I am a 'major' point owner and I am accurately reporting what was said to me....

I specifically asked if this 'change' referred to the 'lead' check-in name, and was told no, it referred to all names. When I expressed my amazement at this upcomming change, I was told that this was a software change to match CRO's now current policy (I don't know if that is true or not, BTW - I don't use CRO!)

It makes sense as yet another way to stop speculative Holiday renting as well as commercial renting, however, the POS clearly allows renting (excluding AKV's POS for the moment).

I also agree with the concern and disgust expressed by others, and feel that if this policy does come to bear, it will not last very long. Of course if I loose a ressie, I still won't be happy.

No word yet from Deep Croaker.

My bet, this will not come to pass as I have 'reported'. But a lead check-in name verson of this, I do expect to occur.

Remember this is rumor, that I'm sharing, so YMMV!

-Tony

[DVC Mike]

First off, this is still an unconfirmed rumor at this point.

Secondly, I applaud the fact that DVC may be attempting to do something about the issue of owners speculatively booking prime vacation times and renting them for profit. I feel this practice is detrimental to other DVC members, as it hurts their chances of booking those "choice" reservations themselves. It’s undeniable that if people stop pre-booking reservations for the sole purpose of renting months down the road, more people will be successful at booking their preferred accommodation at 11 or 7 months.

Thirdly, I don't agree with the suggested change, as it will harm more DVC members than hurt those who do speculative booking.

Finally, I think the best solution would be for DVC to require a change in just the primary person be considered a cancellation and rebooking, and that the primary person must appear in order to check-in.

[greenban]

First off, this is still an unconfirmed rumor at this point.

Secondly, I applaud the fact that DVC may be attempting to do something about the issue of owners speculatively booking prime vacation times and renting them for profit. I feel this practice is detrimental to other DVC members, as it hurts their chances of booking those "choice" reservations themselves. It’s undeniable that if people stop pre-booking reservations for the sole purpose of renting months down the road, more people will be successful at booking their preferred accommodation at 11 or 7 months.

Thirdly, I don't agree with the suggested change, as it will harm more DVC members than hurt those who do speculative booking.

Finally, I think the best solution would be for DVC to require a change in just the primary person be considered a cancellation and rebooking, and that the primary person must appear in order to check-in.

:iagree:

YEAH, WHAT HE SAID!!!!

-Tony

[carolina_yankee]

I specifically asked if this 'change' referred to the 'lead' check-in name, and was told no, it referred to all names. When I expressed my amazement at this upcomming change, I was told that this was a software change to match CRO's now current policy (I don't know if that is true or not, BTW - I don't use CRO!)
Why would DVC and CRO have the same policies? It's a totally different product and different customer base. I can see why a cash ressie through CRO is non-transferrable - that's just the way that world works, but with a timeshare - we're talking about our OWNERSHIP, not renting someone else's extra room. How do other points-based timeshares handle this? I remember using my mother's week-based time share at Hilton Head. They didn't even care if we told them we were coming our not, nor did they care how many people we showed up with as long as we didn't exceed room capacity. Just show up, check in, and get the proper number of keys. It would seem to me that with a reservation based system, it should operate more or less the same way - except, of course, that you have to make the ressie.

It makes sense as yet another way to stop speculative Holiday renting as well as commercial renting, however, the POS clearly allows renting (excluding AKV's POS for the moment).

-Tony
Does the AKV POS not mention renting at all, or does it specifically prohibit it? Is this unusual for DVC, or has this happened before with units in the early stage of construction?

Would a ban on renting automatically mean a ban on letting someone else use your points free of charge (such as friend, extended family, bonus to employee or something), or would it be like the ban on transferring points for $$$ - it's against the rules, but Disney can't really enforce it.

If this is true - this is going to get interesting - and it sounds like some interesting conflicts could be coming down the pike. If the SSR POS permits renting and the AKV doesn't - does that mean SSR owners (and other owners with the same terms) would legally have more flexibility with their ownership than owners of newer properties?

Dirk

[jbrowna]

First off, this is still an unconfirmed rumor at this point.

Secondly, I applaud the fact that DVC may be attempting to do something about the issue of owners speculatively booking prime vacation times and renting them for profit. I feel this practice is detrimental to other DVC members, as it hurts their chances of booking those "choice" reservations themselves. It’s undeniable that if people stop pre-booking reservations for the sole purpose of renting months down the road, more people will be successful at booking their preferred accommodation at 11 or 7 months.

Thirdly, I don't agree with the suggested change, as it will harm more DVC members than hurt those who do speculative booking.

Finally, I think the best solution would be for DVC to require a change in just the primary person be considered a cancellation and rebooking, and that the primary person must appear in order to check-in.


Mike -

:iagree:

Thanks for this post! I guess I'm new enough that I wasn't aware that this "speculative booking" was a problem. If it is, however, I agree it needs to be addressed.

My question: is the proposed change in policy the best way to deal with speculative booking? For those of you who have more experience, what do you think would be a fair way of dealing with it? :scratchch Are there other solutions that might zero in on this abusive booking problem that don't cause issues for regular DVC members? Perhaps the folks on this forum can share their collective wisdom and offer a solution that will both work and be satisfying.

The only problem then is to communicate it to the "powers that be" and make sure they listen.... :Pokepoke:

[carolina_yankee]

The only problem then is to communicate it to the "powers that be" and make sure they listen.... :Pokepoke:

We can certainly send emails that we've heard the rumors and express our concerns. Other boards are having similar discussions with members pretty much united against the rumored changes regardless of their positions on renting. Since Disney does prowl the boards, they'll know - but hitting them from various angles can't hurt.

Here's the email address folks used in the call for SSR booking categories thread. Some folks got responses to that.

DVCMemberSatisfactionTeam@disneyvacationclub.com

Dirk

[administrator]

Finally, I think the best solution would be for DVC to require a change in just the primary person be considered a cancellation and rebooking, and that the primary person must appear in order to check-in.

I still think the problem with this is that what if I, as an owner, have a sudden change in plans that means that I can no longer make my vacation (the week before my holiday, I break a leg and don't want to hobble around the parks; suddenly can't take my vacation time; etc.). However, I have another family member (a sister who lives in FL) or a friend to whom I'm willing to give that reservation. Why shouldn't I be allowed to give them that reservation?

They're my darned points, regardless of when that reservation is made/occurs. I have played by the rules, paid my dues, made the reservations when I was supposed to... and now I can't use that reservation in the manner of my choosing? Frankly, that's a lot of crud.

If such a move does indeed come down the pike, this website will cease to exist, since DVC will, in my opinion, have begun to offer an incredibly inferior and veritably useless product. Why should I give it free publicity?

[Carol]

I still think the problem with this is that what if I, as an owner, have a sudden change in plans that means that I can no longer make my vacation (the week before my holiday, I break a leg and don't want to hobble around the parks; suddenly can't take my vacation time; etc.). However, I have another family member (a sister who lives in FL) or a friend to whom I'm willing to give that reservation. Why shouldn't I be allowed to give them that reservation?

They're my darned points, regardless of when that reservation is made/occurs. I have played by the rules, paid my dues, made the reservations when I was supposed to... and now I can't use that reservation in the manner of my choosing? Frankly, that's a lot of crud.

If such a move does indeed come down the pike, this website will cease to exist, since DVC will, in my opinion, have begun to offer an incredibly inferior and veritably useless product. Why should I give it free publicity?If the intent is really to discourage speculative renting for peak times, DVC could allow name changes after the 60 day or 31 day mark - even if the original reservation was made at the 11 month mark.

Very few (if any) people who rent would want to pay in advance if they can't get a confirmation in their name until 30-60 days in advance of arrival. I think that would seriously cut down on the speculative renting for peak times.

FWIW, as much fun as it is to discuss this, I will wait until I see the something officially announced before I get upset or leap for joy.

[administrator]

If the intent is really to discourage speculative renting for peak times, DVC could allow name changes after the 60 day or 31 day mark - even if the original reservation was made at the 11 month mark.

Very few (if any) people who rent would want to pay in advance if they can't get a confirmation in their name until 30-60 days in advance of arrival. I think that would seriously cut down on the speculative renting for peak times.

FWIW, as much fun as it is to discuss this, I will wait until I see the something officially announced before I get upset or leap for joy.

I seriously doubt DVC will actually announce what its intent really is. Whether renting is speculative or not seems to be irrelevant, since the outcome would appear to be the same -- namely, that owners of all stripes will be unable to use their purchases in the manner in which they were able to use them when they originally made their purchases, thus rendering the product inferior.

I'm going to wait, of course, bit it seems to me that DVC is growing, more and more, to be like the credit card companies -- able to change the things pretty much at their whim, since they run the show (thank you, management company).

First, there was the "one point transfer per year" deal -- even though that's not what it says in my POS.

Then, it was that everyone needed to be listed in the ressies, whether they were on DDP or not -- and half the time they STILL get that wrong.

Now, rumors suggest that if you want to change any of the names on your ressie (any of which may be wrong in the first place), such a change may result in the cancellation of your ressie completely.

Tell me, again: How is DVC a superior product? Any DVC reps lurking out there?

[WhiteSoxFan]

I am a new owner and recently made my first reservation. I was surprised when MS asked for the names of each individual staying on the reservation. What do they need this for and what do they do with it? Why should it make a difference who is staying?

Using my recently made reservation as an example, we have 5 people in a 2BR. What would stop me from bring along another 2 people who might want to join us at the last minute? The room sleeps eight. As long as I follow the occupancy rules what difference does it make? Or what difference would it make if two of the original people didn't come and two others did? How would they know?

I don't mean to rant and I definitely understand the detriment speculative renting is to the general ownership, but can't MS just track the people who are doing an excessive amount of renting?

[idratherbeinwdw]

If such a move does indeed come down the pike, this website will cease to exist, since DVC will, in my opinion, have begun to offer an incredibly inferior and veritably useless product. Why should I give it free publicity?

Isn't this a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face? I am willing to bet that very few people join DVC because of this site. Although there are newbies that may be swayed by reading some of the posts here, the majority of Mouseowners are already members. I really doubt your "publicity" or lack of it will have any effect whatsoever on the bottom line for DVC.

It's up to you however, since you pay for the site. I am sure the members here will find other DVC boards to join if you close MO.

[ghost1000]

I am a new owner and recently made my first reservation. I was surprised when MS asked for the names of each individual staying on the reservation. What do they need this for and what do they do with it? Why should it make a difference who is staying?


One reason MS needs to know if for the room keys. And I'm pretty sure each room key has the person's name on it.

If you're staying in a two-bedroom villa, they don't just automatically hand you eight keys.

[carolina_yankee]

I don't mean to rant and I definitely understand the detriment speculative renting is to the general ownership, but can't MS just track the people who are doing an excessive amount of renting?

Actually, I don't think they can. They have no way of knowing if a member making a reservation for someone else has rented them points, or if they are letting their cousin/friend/whatever use their points. MS has no way of know if a financial transaction occurred. The only thing they can do is make assumptions based on the number of reservations made in someone else's name. As we all know, assumptions can be VERY wrong.

I think Disney is doing two things: I think they are genuinely trying to address the problem of speculative renting during peak times; but I also think they see how popular the rent/trade boards are (even ours have really taken off) and see the $$$ someone else is getting for stays on their property and going "Hey, we want that money!"

To the first cause, I say good for Disney; to the second cause (probably the one that's driving their decisions), I say, "Too bad. You made the rules and we're playing by them. Deal with it."

If such a move does indeed come down the pike, this website will cease to exist, since DVC will, in my opinion, have begun to offer an incredibly inferior and veritably useless product. Why should I give it free publicity?

Again, if the decision does come down like that, I think the policy will be gone or dramatically modified in under a month (hopefully the owner of this site will have a little patience should the policy appear, so we could all vent our rage at the Mouse). Disney sells DVC as better than other timeshares, especially because of flexibility. Taking that away form us means they deserve to have 100,000 members on various boards shouting out "Stay away from DVC!"

Maybe the site could then be named "MouseDumpers." :D

Dirk

[WhiteSoxFan]

One reason MS needs to know if for the room keys. And I'm pretty sure each room key has the person's name on it.

If you're staying in a two-bedroom villa, they don't just automatically hand you eight keys.

That's fine and makes sense, but couldn't they just handle any changes right at the check-in desk? Every person doesn't need a key anyway, unless you are putting your park passes on them. I don't see the need for each kid to have a key.

[greenban]

Isn't this a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face? I am willing to bet that very few people join DVC because of this site. Although there are newbies that may be swayed by reading some of the posts here, the majority of Mouseowners are already members. I really doubt your "publicity" or lack of it will have any effect whatsoever on the bottom line for DVC.

It's up to you however, since you pay for the site. I am sure the members here will find other DVC boards to join if you close MO.

MEOW!!!!:corn:

Rather a harsh reply, don'tcha think?

Can you provide statistics for your doubts?

One statistic I can personally vouch for, is that my research at the disboards definately caused my original DVC purchase, and caused me to use TTS when my direct purchase fell through.... Don't dismiss websites so casually.....

Don't under estimate the effect of the web when googled in helping people to make choices between stores, estores, resale, direct, et. al.

That's one small reason google is so sucessful.

JMHO.

-Tony

[administrator]

Isn't this a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face?

In what way? If they do this, I can assure you that we're selling our DVC, even if it's at a significant loss. How would closing the site then be cutting off my nose to spite my face?

I am willing to bet that very few people join DVC because of this site. Although there are newbies that may be swayed by reading some of the posts here, the majority of Mouseowners are already members. I really doubt your "publicity" or lack of it will have any effect whatsoever on the bottom line for DVC.

Please see Tony's comments below. Prior to shuttering the site, I'd be sure, of course, to provide complete and unvarnished reviews of the most inflexible timeshare out there. The power of the web: It's pretty amazing.

It's up to you however, since you pay for the site. I am sure the members here will find other DVC boards to join if you close MO.

I'm sure they will, too. And I'm pretty sure that if DVC does indeed become so inflexible as to say, "Sorry, but if you change the name on your reservation, it's being cancelled and you have to go back to square one," all of those DVC sites will be saying the very same thing: "DVC has become an incredibly awful product: stay away from it."

JMO. YMMV.

[administrator]

One statistic I can personally vouch for, is that my research at the disboards definately caused my original DVC purchase, and caused me to use TTS when my direct purchase fell through.... Don't dismiss websites so casually.....

Don't under estimate the effect of the web when googled in helping people to make choices between stores, estores, resale, direct, et. al.



Ditto. We wanted to be sure that DVC wasn't a scam, so we went home and researched it... and then bought resale. :)

Anyone else actually use the web to research DVC before they bought it? Or are most Disney websites basically useless and ineffectual in terms of their impact on people? Inquiring minds want to know!!

[carolina_yankee]

For what it's worth, I wouldn't have bought DVC if it wasn't for the web. At the time, it was the DIS. I came to Mouseowners after I purchased, but several people have commented in various introduction threads about how this site has helped them.

Like Kim says, if we're unhappy owners, we're going to post our gripes, and seeing people gripe would have kept me away. I suspect I'm not the only one.

Dirk

[nuts4wdw]

Anyone else actually use the web to research DVC before they bought it? Or are most Disney websites basically useless and ineffectual in terms of their impact on people? Inquiring minds want to know!![/QUOTE]

My DH and I had looked into on the web after we started the whole process to purchase points. We read through MO and some other boards that people were very happy with DVC as long as they were mainly using it at Disney. Which was what we wanted. I would say it really eased our minds that this was a good decision on our part before making a large purchase. I would say any large purchase, be it a car, tv etc..., we will search the web for reviews.

We were going to Disney at least once a year and staying in a deluxe room with an employee discount. When DVC extended their employee discount for family members we decided to join. We paid $71.25 pp in 5/05 for SSR. We knew if we ever were unhappy we could always sell and make our money back.

However this rumor is very disappointing if true. First the point transfer per year really bothered me. My parents also purchased points at the same time as us and we were told that we could always transfer points to each other if needed. Not that we do this often - only once has it happened - but knowing that we can't transfer more than once a year annoyed us.

Telling people their reservations could be cancelled if name changes are made is just crazy. What we want to do with our points is our own business. If I want to give my ressie to my brother and family or just rent it out that is my choice to make. We did rent out our points on a trip we had made for ourselves. Due to a financial hardship decided to keep the ressie and rent it out. Our DVC guide told us that was one of the flexabilities of DVC when we purchased, so I really did not feel guilty renting it out.

Hopefully this is not true or if it is will not last very long.

~Lauren

[idratherbeinwdw]

How would closing the site then be cutting off my nose to spite my face?


I guess I was under the mistaken impression that these boards were a community. If you shut them down you'd be hurting that community imho, a lot more than you'd hurt DVC sales or newbies looking for information.

I disagree that other sites would shut down due to the inability to change names on ressies. I have never rented out my points, and most folks who buy DVC buy it to stay at WDW, not to profit or rent out their points. This change, if it occurs, will not effect me or the majority of owners one iota. I strongly doubt the DIS or any other DVC site will shut down because of this change.

As you said in your post YMMV. My opinion is just that, and you don't have to agree.

[bigbahamadada]

Ditto for us on using the boards directing our decision to purchase DVC. For me, forums at the Dis and MO were the primary source of information when evaluating a DVC purchase. I lurked and leached of the opinions of actual customers, got copies of the POS's from TSS and viewed the hotels on our own. First time I ever spoke to a DVC rep was to make my first reservation.

I don't know what others are like, but I had no interest in spending time while on vacation listening to some DVC sales pitch. A waste of their time (as, through the wisdom gleaned here I had decided to get in door with a small resale purchase) and my time.

And, more to the point, is that the existence of these boards and the very vocal and engaged group represented herein, went a long way to assuaging the hesitancy I felt after reading the POS. If you read those, DVD has the power to do lots and lots of things that would diminish the value of the ownership. But I trust that a vocal and communicating base of customers would keep them from implementing changes that they might otherwise undertake or letting the resorts fall into disrepair. To me, the existence of these forums is a significant distinguishing feature of DVC from other timeshares.

[carolina_yankee]

If your reply was to me, I never said the 'net doesn't effect people's opinions.I myself was influenced by the DIS to join DVC. Although it's been said many a time that websites only account for a teeny portion of membership, that still wasn't my point.

If the boards were shut down how would new people see these gripes you refer to?
I wasn't replying to you so much as supporting a comment Tony made. As for shutting the site down - first: I hope we realize that is seriously not on the table at this moment in time; and, second: I specifically stated in my post that I hoped that wouldn't happen.

Whether or not your point was about the influence websites have in DVC ownership, you did make the comment and others responded to it. It's now part of the conversation. Just like your responded to the comment at the end of Kim's post, which was not the point of her post, either.


Dirk

[lenshanem]

This new policy would be totally insane and would make me very unhappy with DVC.

[administrator]

If the boards were shut down how would new people see these gripes you refer to?

I specifically stated that prior to shutting down the site, I'd be sure that appropriately factual (and likely negative) reviews of the most newly inflexible timeshare on the planet would be shared. Perhaps you missed that.


I disagree that other sites would shut down due to the inability to change names on ressies.

????????? Where did I ever suggest that this would happen? What I said was that the other sites to which people would flock for their DVC info would likely give poor reviews of the newly inflexible DVC product. Perhaps you missed that.


I have never rented out my points, and most folks who buy DVC buy it to stay at WDW, not to profit or rent out their points. This change, if it occurs, will not effect me or the majority of owners one iota.

It's likely to affect the owner who, due to unforeseen circumstances (and we all encounter them at one time or another), needs to change SOMETHING about his or her reservation. BIL can't make it and your SIL wants to bring her friend? Sorry, you're screwed. Your husband can't make it because there's an emergency at work but he still wants you to go, and you'd like to take your BFF instead? Sorry, you're screwed. You see, it's likely to affect far more people than you think.



I strongly doubt the DIS or any other DVC site will shut down because of this change.


Again, what are you talking about?

Nice to see you posting again, Marilyn.

[PlutoFan21]

It's likely to affect the owner who, due to unforeseen circumstances (and we all encounter them at one time or another), needs to change SOMETHING about his or her reservation. BIL can't make it and your SIL wants to bring her friend? Sorry, you're screwed. Your husband can't make it because there's an emergency at work but he still wants you to go, and you'd like to take your BFF instead? Sorry, you're screwed. You see, it's likely to affect far more people than you think.

FIL gets in motorcycle accident 5 DAYS before check in and he and MIL can't go!!! So what then? Do they cancel my ressie even though DH, DD, DS and myself would still be going and then what? Do my points go into holding for ressie use inside 60 days only??? I was crazy enough with the current policies when this happen 6 weeks ago.

IMHO:
Suggested changes in lead name policy - understandable

ANY CHANGE OF ANY NAME - unacceptable

[greenban]

Remember Folks, this is pure rumor.

Even though I presented it, it is pure rumor.

*IF* it happens, it may just affect big point owners and/or just amphibians!

It may never come to pass.

However, like all recent DVC changes in policy/policy implementation there will be work arounds.

I.e. The recent software 'upgrade' that won't let you borrow points if you have current UY points available (really only affects multiple Home Resorts in the same Membership), you just book a phantom ressie to 'protect' your current UY points, borrow from the next UY, and then cancel the phantom ressie.

Extra work all around? Sure. Does it Get Er Done? You Bet!

I'm certain, that if Dad, BIL, DW, etc. can't go, and you show up at check-in, the resort will *NOT* turn you away.

And with the DDP 'sucking' so badly for 2008, who would have it anyhow?

Finally, the outcry will be so great, DVC would have to reverse this poor decision.

Finally, it is a systems/software upgrade. The reality of it really ocurring or even working (much like the vaporware Point Morphing Fix!) is quite remote.

Having said all that, I do believe this is commercial/professional renting related, and as I have predicted in the past, one of many future plans to stop this activity. It isn't about spec booking as much, although that is much more PC for TPTB to claim as their rational.

Time will tell.

Cheers!

-Tony

[lenshanem]

Although I think this rumor stinks big time and will infuriate me to no end, are they really gonna check everyone's ID when you check in? As long as the lead name is correct you could get around this if the people change that are coming with you.

Like Tony said, I doubt as many people will be doing the DDP plan. I know we won't. Given the changes and that my oldest daughter will be 10 next time we go the DDP is a distant memory for us. But, if you are doing DDP it will effect you - you will have to make sure the exact number of children and adults are still coming.

Only other concern I can see is needing the room cards for EMH. And again, as long as you have the correct number of cards they aren't gonna check your ID when you get your wristbands, ya know?

And as for HHI or VB? Would there be any problems as long as the lead name is correct?

Am I missing anything here?

[handa]

When I get upset, I sing. Actually, I write songs, then sing them.

Chris

####

Monsiuer, Mademoiselle, it is with deepest pride
and greatest pleasure that we now say, "Welcome home."
And now we invite you to relax, let us pull up your
file as Member Services presents -
your ressie!

Extra guest! Extra guest!
Put our service to the test
Tell us exactly who will be here
Or we'll cancel all the rest
Do not lie
Do not cheat
Or your ressie we’ll delete
Want to switch folks
We won’t do that
We’ll see you Wednesday, come get your hat!
If you add, if you change
We will have to rearrange
And your villa may go to another guest
Go on, make your plans right now
We can’t tell you just how
To add guests
To add guests
To add guests!

Don’t get sick
Don’t change plans
Or you will be pounding sand
And just maybe you should have
Your little rule book in your hand
You're alone
And you're scared
But your friend is all prepared
To travel with you to Disney
But you cannot change your history
What a joke! Lousy tricks
This will make them look not nice
If they cancel you because
Of your aunt Bess!
Come on you can’t change that name
We’ll cancel you it’s no game
So don’t change guests!
If you're stressed
It's I-Drive that we suggest
Don’t change guests! Don’t Change Guests! Don’t change guests!

[carolina_yankee]

Handa - that's great! Just brilliant!

I've moved it to the thread you were addressing. Gee - with all the DVC MS changes, you should be coming out with a whole album, soon. :D

Dirk

[handa]

Sorry, Dirk! I was following both threads and put this on the wrong one.

If an administrator could direct my song to the right queue, I'd be most appreciative!

Chris

[administrator]

Bravo! Bravo! Encore! Encore! ROTFLMAO!! eerrrr... ROTFLMBO!!!!

[mathmouse]

:clappingh

[mountainjourno]

LOVED the lyrics! Fantastic!!

[pollymn]

:bowdown::bowdown:

[Rozzie]

Okay, I will still have a major major problem with DVC if they change it to the lead name.

For instance just last week, I found out I will not be able to go on my trip at the end of this month. Points expire in Feb. What to do? What to do? I gave my trip away to another member, and did a complete name change on the ressie. No problem, no comments made.

Why should it give a crap who stays in my villa? As long as my dues are up to date, and I have points available I should not have a problem.

I think a couple of sour apples (commercial renters) are spoiling the flexability of tens of thousands of members. How is that fair?

[carolina_yankee]

Okay, I will still have a major major problem with DVC if they change it to the lead name.

For instance just last week, I found out I will not be able to go on my trip at the end of this month. Points expire in Feb. What to do? What to do? I gave my trip away to another member, and did a complete name change on the ressie. No problem, no comments made.
I'm beginning to think more and more that Tony got the rumored change he got because of the number of time he might have changed names on reservations - this could be like the letters that went out to some owners last year warning them of detected patterns of rental activity.

Why should it give a crap who stays in my villa? As long as my dues are up to date, and I have points available I should not have a problem.
I think DVC is going to have to keep it that way if they don't want thousands of unhappy owners badmouthing the program.

I think a couple of sour apples (commercial renters) are spoiling the flexability of tens of thousands of members. How is that fair?
Again, I wouldn't put it past Disney to be running this as a trial balloon to certain owners, or to come out with a dramatically different version than the one presented.

Remember, it's still rumor. Heck, maybe the CM said it just so she could watch the chat boards light up at night!

Dirk

[Eveningsong]

I agree, my first trip using my DVC points and the front desk screwed up my daughter's name which is the same last name as mine. They also screwed up the charging privileges. I very clearly told them I was the only one to have charging privileges. It is Mom's credit card on file. But they screwed that up too. I had the front desk remake the cards with the no charging privileges, and correct the misspelled name. Who wants a card with their name spelled wrong.

I had spelled all 5 names at the time of booking the reservation.

I also had to give them grandchildren's names and they are 1 and 2, so they would not be on the dining plan, just the 3 adults.

There was a total of 3 different last names for 1 reservation.

I can't imagine that other families would have not have the same problems that I experienced with SSR.

[Delaware Mike]

I think a couple of sour apples (commercial renters) are spoiling the flexability of tens of thousands of members. How is that fair?


Again, I wouldn't put it past Disney to be running this as a trial balloon to certain owners, or to come out with a dramatically different version than the one presented.

Dirk may be right...

This interesting passage was posted on another website. While I haven't had time to confirm the origin of this information, it's stated to be from the new vacation planner:

Renting Vacation Points Restriction

Use of the Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any purpose other than described in this Declaration is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by an Owner that the Board (of the Condominium Association), in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

EXAMPLE: A Member who maintains a web site offering rental of points is clearly renting for commercial purposes; a Member who makes 20 reservations per Use Year in the name of other persons is most likely renting for commercial purposes. These Members are considered to be "commercially active." A person who makes one or two reservations within a Use Year in the name of other persons most likely is not renting for commercial purposes."

[Daitcher]

I like the spirit of the change; anything to hamper the ease of speculative bookings is a winner to me. But I am deeply skeptical they will be able to implement it with any degree competence..




I respectfully disagree that there is anything to like about "spirit of the change".

How is yet another restriction on a membership that WE own a good thing? ANY restrictions put on our membership devalues the product IMO.

If you want to end speculative bookings, there are FAR better ways to go about that. Very easy to have software track patterns of account activity to Red Flag any offenders. At that point a simple suspension of acount privledges for a period of time would do the trick. Future abuse results in revocation of said membership.

This is not being done for the membership. This is being done because DVC created a nightmare with SSR. They put this massive resort with little to no theme in a location that many deem poor. Theme parks ARE the draw at WDW, not DTD. This is why BCV, BWV and to a lesser degree VWL are deemed as the desirable resorts. With SSR on board we have problems. A high percentage of SSR owners never stay there and book the desirable resorts at 7 months thus decreasing or IMO eliminating ALL flexibility for owners of those resorts. Guides aslo sold SSR as a means to get into the program and told owners buy here stay there acting like availability is "NO PROBLEM." This is leading to MANY unhappy owners of the smaller properties. This is problem #1 they are looking to solve.

Problem #2 is that DVC is unable to market the DVC resorts to cash guests. They haven't been able to recoup any money because of it. Trade outs have resulted in DVC eating the cost becasue the corresponding room wasn't rented to cover the cost. DVC blames renters instead of looking in the mirror. They are doing anything they can legally to stop renters and eliminate any competition they may have either real or perceived.

I think it stinks making changes that will hurt MANY more avergae DVC owners than any specualtive bookers. Why should we pay a price for DVC's shortcomings? Makes me glad I've downsized I'll tell you that. When this happens watch the resale market flood with contracts.

Just MHO YMMV.

DAVE

[ciannamea]

I can't see DVC making such a drastic change like this. I can see them maybe limiting the number of ressie guest name changes within a use year. I can also see them charging $$ for guest name changes after the quota has been reached.

[greenban]

I'm beginning to think more and more that Tony got the rumored change he got because of the number of time he might have changed names on reservations - this could be like the letters that went out to some owners last year warning them of detected patterns of rental activity.


I think DVC is going to have to keep it that way if they don't want thousands of unhappy owners badmouthing the program.


Again, I wouldn't put it past Disney to be running this as a trial balloon to certain owners, or to come out with a dramatically different version than the one presented.

Remember, it's still rumor. Heck, maybe the CM said it just so she could watch the chat boards light up at night!

Dirk

For the record. I rarely change names on reservations. I don't spec book, and I don't make rental ressies until I have everyones names and addresses. So Dirk I don't think this is a personal Tony issue.

However, I do 'chat up' MS-Advisors, and because of that I do tend to get early info, and often superior service to what I read on the various boards.

I simply added 4 names to an existing grand villa ressie, and was given the 'heads up' by my MS-Advisor, that in the future, that will not be permitted.

If the CRO bookings don't allow name changes (as the MS-Advisor implied) then to dismiss this as rumor is foolish. But, if the CRO ressies can have name changes, then yes, I'd say the CM was yanking my chain, so to speak.

So does anyone know if this *IS* a CRO policy?

-Tony

P.S.

Handa awesome job! Bravo!

[administrator]

This is being done because DVC created a nightmare with SSR. They put this massive resort with little to no theme in a location that many deem poor. Theme parks ARE the draw at WDW, not DTD. This is why BCV, BWV and to a lesser degree VWL are deemed as the desirable resorts. With SSR on board we have problems. A high percentage of SSR owners never stay there and book the desirable resorts at 7 months thus decreasing or IMO eliminating ALL flexibility for owners of those resorts. Guides aslo sold SSR as a means to get into the program and told owners buy here stay there acting like availability is "NO PROBLEM." This is leading to MANY unhappy owners of the smaller properties. This is problem #1 they are looking to solve.



IIRC, it was generalizations like these, which are unsupported by facts (I don't want your own personal experiences, Dave, I want reams and reams and reams of data. For every single point of datum you can provide, I can provide an opposing one -- like the fact that DH and I, during our last seven day trip to SSR, spent three entire days wandering around DTD because we weren't in the mood to do the parks -- okay?) and which take on the form of resort-bashing, that got you in hot water here in the first place. :horse:

Please consider this your warning: That is happening again.

[carolina_yankee]

Tony - deepest apologies - I wasn't picking on you in any way, and I regret sounding like I was.

I respect and appreciate the information you bring forth, but this one has me really scratching my head so I'm trying to look for some sort of sensible rationale for how the information came out this way.

Anyway - thanks for the quote from the new vacation planner - it sounds like more info is coming to light.

At any rate, regarding CRO - aren't most reservations at most hotels non-transferable? However, DVC as a timeshare is a different beast, so it shouldn't have CRO type of software (or at least, restrictions). Curiouser and curiouser.

Dirk

[Carol]

For the record. I rarely change names on reservations. I don't spec book, and I don't make rental ressies until I have everyones names and addresses. So Dirk I don't think this is a personal Tony issue.

However, I do 'chat up' MS-Advisors, and because of that I do tend to get early info, and often superior service to what I read on the various boards.

I simply added 4 names to an existing grand villa ressie, and was given the 'heads up' by my MS-Advisor, that in the future, that will not be permitted.

If the CRO bookings don't allow name changes (as the MS-Advisor implied) then to dismiss this as rumor is foolish. But, if the CRO ressies can have name changes, then yes, I'd say the CM was yanking my chain, so to speak.

So does anyone know if this *IS* a CRO policy?

-Tony

P.S.

Handa awesome job! Bravo!I have no idea re CRO policy - it's been "forever" since I've had to talk to one of the CMs there, LOL.

But don't the MS CMs see how ridiculous it would be to not allow you to add names to a reservation? It will just make the check in process (and thus the lines) longer as everyone will just show up with the "extra" people. I can't imagine there is a Front Desk CM anywhere on Disney property that would refuse to issue keys to the "extra" people standing there in front of him/her (assuming the additions would not put occupancy over the limit). All this "policy" will do is make members and front desk CMs mad for no good result!

Kind of like the new"policy" of having to use up all current points from all of your home resorts before allowing any borrowing. Apparently doesn't matter that you were saving the VWL points to make a 11 month reservation there - you must use those current use year VWL points for the OKW reservation that comes first because it is less than 7 months to the OKW reservation! That just makes members make a bogus reservation with the VWL points, then the one they really want for OKW and then cancel the bogus one. Lots more work for MS!

Anyway, I still think some CMs do not have or understand this "new" policy and are making things up! My theory and I'm stickin' to it until official word smacks me in the face.

[greenban]

Tony - deepest apologies - I wasn't picking on you in any way, and I regret sounding like I was.

I respect and appreciate the information you bring forth, but this one has me really scratching my head so I'm trying to look for some sort of sensible rationale for how the information came out this way.

Anyway - thanks for the quote from the new vacation planner - it sounds like more info is coming to light.

At any rate, regarding CRO - aren't most reservations at most hotels non-transferable? However, DVC as a timeshare is a different beast, so it shouldn't have CRO type of software (or at least, restrictions). Curiouser and curiouser.

Dirk

Dirkster:

No apolgoes needed!

I wasn't feeling 'picked on' per se, but wanted the MO newbies not to think that I was the source of all evil changes to the DVC.

(Nor was SSR my fault, either! ;) )

-Tony

[Daitcher]

IIRC, it was generalizations like these, which are unsupported by facts (I don't want your own personal experiences, Dave, I want reams and reams and reams of data. For every single point of datum you can provide, I can provide an opposing one -- like the fact that DH and I, during our last seven day trip to SSR, spent three entire days wandering around DTD because we weren't in the mood to do the parks -- okay?) and which take on the form of resort-bashing, that got you in hot water here in the first place. :horse:

Please consider this your warning: That is happening again.



My take on SSR and it's effect on DVC on the whole is only my opinion. You and others are entitled to disagree. Lets leave it at that.

I don't find this rumored change to be a good thing for DVC and that is my main point.

As far as being in hot water.... I didn't realize I was. I guess I'll refrain from any opinions on SSR.


DAVE

[Daitcher]

I have no idea re CRO policy - it's been "forever" since I've had to talk to one of the CMs there, LOL.

But don't the MS CMs see how ridiculous it would be to not allow you to add names to a reservation? It will just make the check in process (and thus the lines) longer as everyone will just show up with the "extra" people. I can't imagine there is a Front Desk CM anywhere on Disney property that would refuse to issue keys to the "extra" people standing there in front of him/her (assuming the additions would not put occupancy over the limit). All this "policy" will do is make members and front desk CMs mad for no good result!

Kind of like the new"policy" of having to use up all current points from all of your home resorts before allowing any borrowing. Apparently doesn't matter that you were saving the VWL points to make a 11 month reservation there - you must use those current use year VWL points for the OKW reservation that comes first because it is less than 7 months to the OKW reservation! That just makes members make a bogus reservation with the VWL points, then the one they really want for OKW and then cancel the bogus one. Lots more work for MS!

Anyway, I still think some CMs do not have or understand this "new" policy and are making things up! My theory and I'm stickin' to it until official word smacks me in the face.


I hope you are correct.


DAVE

[Daitcher]

Ditto. We wanted to be sure that DVC wasn't a scam, so we went home and researched it... and then bought resale. :)

Anyone else actually use the web to research DVC before they bought it? Or are most Disney websites basically useless and ineffectual in terms of their impact on people? Inquiring minds want to know!!



The web no doubt influenced my decsion to buy and then add on again and again. Web can have the same reverse effect if this further limitation of our DVC goes into effect.


DAVE

[bzzelady]

This interesting passage was posted on another website. While I haven't had time to confirm the origin of this information, it's stated to be from the new vacation planner:


Mike,

This is in the new planner that I received yesterday-look on page 11 when you receive yours.

[bzzelady]

And yes...I did a lot of web research before I purchased DVC. I took the tour while I was at Disney and gracefully turned down the purchase offer the next day. I came home and did about six months worth of research/listening to chatter on the disboards, and then purchased from home.

According to my guide, the majority of people go home after their tour, research, and then buy.

[administrator]

My take on SSR

DAVE


But this is precisely the problem: you are conflating two different issues here. Your opinion regarding SSR is entirely OT and has absolutely nothing to do with the changes MS is reportedly going to make to the reservation system.

[karenb805]

Just to let everyone know that I spoke with Member Services this past Friday and the advisor I spoke with made it clear to me that they were changing the software on their system for exactly this reason - so people will not be able to change the names on their reservations. This was supposed to take place some time this year.

I have been a DVC member for over 8 years and have watched it grow but I have become rather dissatisfied with some of their services. It seems some of the member advisors do not enjoy talking to members, they have revised the DDP so much so that we are no longer interested in purchasing something that is obviously not in our favor, and I am still waiting for our new member planning guide. I checked the DVC website today and they are still listing 2007 points for VWL.

It seems the faster they grow the less the members seem to get. It's too bad for all the good money we pay.

Karen B

[Piglet513]

So does anyone know if this *IS* a CRO policy?


We stayed at Pop Century in August 2007 with two rooms (2 different reservations) and I must have changed the names around 5 times! At one point I told them we would show up and see who was there! There were no problems. Maybe I just got lucky?

[inkmahm]

No way! If this goes into effect, I will make a reservation for my husband and me and then add enough names from the rest of the family to fill the villa to whatever the capacity of the villa is. I'll have to guess which of the family we'll invite to come with us as I usually don't know when I'm making the reservaton at 11 months. Then I"ll bring as many people as I want and drop the rest when I show up at the front desk. Or I'll take all the extra room cards and just toss them. And if I bring someone whose name wasn't on the original reservation? They will be known by a new name for the duration of the vacation, one of the ones I guessed at when I made the reservation at 11 months out!

The rule would be unenforceable. Especially when children with no official IDs are involved (how in the world would they check which of my nieces/nephews I've brought with me, exactly? They are all younger than 18 and don't need ID's for anything.)

[JRDisneyClan]

Great job, handa!

I understand the underlying issues & the disturbing restrictive & detracting trends of ownership, but an absolute policy like no name changes without cancellation just seems completely ridiculous & difficult to enforce in its entirety. Most people's vacation plans change so much from inception to occurrence, especially in timesharing, when plans need to start being made so far in advance that the policies as rumored would render the product incredibly restrictive & highly unusual within the industry.

IMO, if (when) such a policy were ever put in place, there would have to be many failsafes to protect the regular owner. I completely agree that an absolute policy as rumored would definitely hurt more common owners than the minority that DVC might be targeting.

My first thought was that this was DVC's way of leaking information to the membership to judge the reaction for any potential changes it would like to implement & how, then, to do it. I'd be very curious if Tony were a specific vehicle to do this, but that would have taken a very concerted effort by MS to even accomplish that for specific members (notes on accounts, pre-shift meetings/alerts, etc.) OOC, was the original MS Advisor someone you knew very well from previous transactions?

If DVC really is after commercial renters or speculative for-profit owners, it would seem like they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face by doing what's being rumored.

"Welcome Home, but you really can't do anything you would normally do with your own home."


P.S. There does seem to be a disconnect between MS & resort front desks in transferring reservation information correctly or at all. I've had to provide names at check-in all 3 trips we've made as an owner even though the names were listed when the reservations were made or modified. No, I can't ever imagine a resort CM turning someone away because the names were incorrect. While I think DVC customer service should be the same from reservations/membership administration to resort operations, I think resort CMs are more able to focus on creating the magic.

[greenban]

Great job, handa!

I understand the underlying issues & the disturbing restrictive & detracting trends of ownership, but an absolute policy like no name changes without cancellation just seems completely ridiculous & difficult to enforce in its entirety. Most people's vacation plans change so much from inception to occurrence, especially in timesharing, when plans need to start being made so far in advance that the policies as rumored would render the product incredibly restrictive & highly unusual within the industry.

IMO, if (when) such a policy were ever put in place, there would have to be many failsafes to protect the regular owner. I completely agree that an absolute policy as rumored would definitely hurt more common owners than the minority that DVC might be targeting.

My first thought was that this was DVC's way of leaking information to the membership to judge the reaction for any potential changes it would like to implement & how, then, to do it. I'd be very curious if Tony were a specific vehicle to do this, but that would have taken a very concerted effort by MS to even accomplish that for specific members (notes on accounts, pre-shift meetings/alerts, etc.) OOC, was the original MS Advisor someone you knew very well from previous transactions?

If DVC really is after commercial renters or speculative for-profit owners, it would seem like they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face by doing what's being rumored.

"Welcome Home, but you really can't do anything you would normally do with your own home."


P.S. There does seem to be a disconnect between MS & resort front desks in transferring reservation information correctly or at all. I've had to provide names at check-in all 3 trips we've made as an owner even though the names were listed when the reservations were made or modified. No, I can't ever imagine a resort CM turning someone away because the names were incorrect. While I think DVC customer service should be the same from reservations/membership administration to resort operations, I think resort CMs are more able to focus on creating the magic.


Ahhhhhhh..... to be official spokesfrog for the DVC, I'd love it where do I sign up?

OTOH, it is possible that the DVC management is playing me, using me as a spokesperson for their plans and future options, after all I did sell more early AKV than anyone else.

But as paranoid as I am (and I am paranoid, 'cause Mama said, "Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get you!" (Apologies to Forrest, BTW). I don't think I get this info for any reason other than my telephone persona (much like my web persona) with the MS-Advisors.

One thing I do, if I get a Grumpy MS-Advisor, I hang up and try again. I'm not gonna waste my time with a negative advisor.

I now do think this change is comming (based on karenb805's MSA interactions).

It will be interesting, because until AKV's POS, Renting was specifically allowed and provided for. (In fact Owners were to report 'rental' reservations when making them, and written contracts were a rental requirement!)

For the last 2 years, MSAs (New Abreviation, Member Service Advisor(s) - copyright The Frog 2008, and hereby released into the public domain) have stated renting is prohibited/illegal.

I'm sorry some owner's are doing spec rentals for peak periods, and I'm sorry DVC/CRO can't 'sell' DVC rooms easily, but this is a fight, that in the end, Disney will loose.

Fun times they are a commin'!

-Tony

P.S. I don't recall prior conversations with this MSA.

[JRDisneyClan]

Just to let everyone know that I spoke with Member Services this past Friday and the advisor I spoke with made it clear to me that they were changing the software on their system for exactly this reason - so people will not be able to change the names on their reservations. This was supposed to take place some time this year.

I now do think this change is comming (based on karenb805's MSA interactions).


I was thinking that this didn't bode well :headbange :headbange :headbange

[Daitcher]

But this is precisely the problem: you are conflating two different issues here. Your opinion regarding SSR is entirely OT and has absolutely nothing to do with the changes MS is reportedly going to make to the reservation system.



Can't disagree with that.

I hope this remains a rumor. Fact is many will be upset with this change. I actually would sell the rest of my ponts if this happens.



DAVE

[Daitcher]

It seems the faster they grow the less the members seem to get. It's too bad for all the good money we pay.

Karen B



Nice quote and ITA.

We all obviously like the point based system that is DVC or else we wouldn't have bought in. I had concerns all along with the balance of such a system but until recently things were working fine. Apparently that has shifted a bit as have begun to see some changes that are not in favor of the membership.

I expect to see further restrictions placed upon our membership as time goes on. I could see a possible switch to say a 11/4 home resort/non home resort booking to give ownwers a greater chance at securing their home resort. This would again devalue this product as we'd have a slim chance of booking the other DVC resorts. I can also see suspensions of banking and borrowing as we get closer to the end date of our contracts.

DVC was new to this whole timeshare thing and because of that they negelcted to see potential problems ahead of time. They didn't have the kinks worked out like some of the older big Timeshares. We are now seeing some back door dealings going on to work around the POS to plug the holes they created. I think it stinks and I also think it is ILLEGAL.

Makes me appreciate my other Timeshare at Royal Haciendas so much more. Fixed weeks have there advantage I'll tell you that. I don't even need to make a ressie, that week and unit are mine. I simply show up and have fun. I could let anyone use it or rent it without a problem. All I'd need to do is call them and give them the name of the persons staying and I could change that as many times as I want. Heck they will even rent it for me for a fee if I so choose.


DAVE

[PlutoFan21]

"Renting Vacation Points Restriction

Use of the Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any purpose other than described in this Declaration is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by an Owner that the Board (of the Condominium Association), in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

EXAMPLE: A Member who maintains a web site offering rental of points is clearly renting for commercial purposes; a Member who makes 20 reservations per Use Year in the name of other persons is most likely renting for commercial purposes. These Members are considered to be "commercially active." A person who makes one or two reservations within a Use Year in the name of other persons most likely is not renting for commercial purposes."

O.K. so the planner addresses renting points from this angle....This doesn't seem like it will affect me and my 160 points and plan to use them for my family's WDW vacations once to every other year. Does it have anything regarding the name change issue listed under making reservations?

[tomandrobin]

I do not see the original post becoming a reality. I can see where DVC would have a policy that would go after a member who has 10 or rentals in a year, all with different names on the reservations. (I used 10 as juat a random number, it could be 20)

[DVC Mike]

"Renting Vacation Points Restriction

Use of the Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any purpose other than described in this Declaration is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by an Owner that the Board (of the Condominium Association), in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

EXAMPLE: A Member who maintains a web site offering rental of points is clearly renting for commercial purposes; a Member who makes 20 reservations per Use Year in the name of other persons is most likely renting for commercial purposes. These Members are considered to be "commercially active." A person who makes one or two reservations within a Use Year in the name of other persons most likely is not renting for commercial purposes."

O.K. so the planner addresses renting points from this angle....This doesn't seem like it will affect me and my 160 points and plan to use them for my family's WDW vacations once to every other year. Does it have anything regarding the name change issue listed under making reservations?

I agree. This just re-states what DVC has been saying for the past few years. It's OK to rent -- just not for commercial purposes. I have no problem with this statement in the planner; in fact, I applaud it.

The original rumor is still that -- an unconfirmed rumor. We'll have to wait and see...

[PlutoFan21]

My first thought was that this was DVC's way of leaking information to the membership to judge the reaction for any potential changes it would like to implement & how, then, to do it. I'd be very curious if Tony were a specific vehicle to do this, but that would have taken a very concerted effort by MS to even accomplish that for specific members (notes on accounts, pre-shift meetings/alerts, etc.)


I just called MS and made part of our ressies for this December. I questioned the potential name change policy and was told MSA's have received no communications regarding this. And not in the exact words as the above quote by JRDisneyClan (our resident frog was not mentioned, LOL!) but a clear connection was made that they (DVD, DVC, &MSA's) know who the commercial renters are and who are frequent callers with frequent name changes (as the Vacation Planner makes clear) and sometimes things are said to "people" as to create and use member feedback. I got the feeling they (DVD, DVC, & MS) are aware the problems that commercial renting and specific seasonal ressies have created for the common DVC folk.

It all gets very interesting:innocent:

As DVC Mike said we'll just have to wait and see!

[GoJoe]

When I check in at Boadwalk Villa in December 07 my wife was not listed on the computer but was listed on my confirmation. It took a couple of minutes but she was able correct it. My point is this. Are they not going to let my grandaughter stay with me if her name is not there or if they spelled my wifes name wrong. So does it matter if we make changes? This is a question not a comment.

[kimberh]

I just called MS and made part of our ressies for this December. I questioned the potential name change policy and was told MSA's have received no communications regarding this. And not in the exact words as the above quote by JRDisneyClan (our resident frog was not mentioned, LOL!) but a clear connection was made that they (DVD, DVC, &MSA's) know who the commercial renters are and who are frequent callers with frequent name changes (as the Vacation Planner makes clear) and sometimes things are said to "people" as to create and use member feedback. I got the feeling they (DVD, DVC, & MS) are aware the problems that commercial renting and specific seasonal ressies have created for the common DVC folk.

It all gets very interesting:innocent:

As DVC Mike said we'll just have to wait and see!

Just catching up on the Thread, I would think that MS would know who is constantly calling changing names on reservations. There seems to me that they (MS) could turn a list over to be checked by auditors. Just this Dec, my Son in Laws' mother died the week we were traveling, I called MS to see what my options were for name changes. I had made our reservation for a 2 bedroom with the DDP at the 11 month window. Life happens, there has to be flexibility with DVC. If DVC enforces this policy, I will sell. It will just not be worth it to me.

[bavaria]

Confirmation letters will now list each guest, and any errors must be reported to MS where a supervisor can make spelling corrections.
I apologize as I have not read the entire thread.... however, what a waste of resources.

I doubt that I can recall ANY of my reservations having my (admittedly very German) first and/or last names spelled correctly, either in the US or in France. Combine that with my frequent travel buddy who has a very Italian first and last name, and usually at least two of the four names are spelled incorrectly.

I use the NATO phonetic code alphabet but obviously MS is not trained to use the same. This is spitting on a fire - penalizing the many to try and deal with a few. :headbange

[carolina_yankee]

[/B]
I use the NATO phonetic code alphabet but obviously MS is not trained to use the same. This is spitting on a fire - penalizing the many to try and deal with a few. :headbange

Disney has actually used a Disney phonetic alphabet with me, but not consistently. They've always gotten my name right, but not always in the lead position. And the scary thing is getting them to put my email in properly. They always hear "M" instead of the "N"s in my name, and my Southern accent isn't thick at all!

My question is why they have trouble spelling our names when we're in the system as MEMBERS for heaven's sake!

I see you decided which head-banging you tend to prefer. :)

Dirk

[greenban]

[/B]
I apologize as I have not read the entire thread.... however, what a waste of resources.

I doubt that I can recall ANY of my reservations having my (admittedly very German) first and/or last names spelled correctly, either in the US or in France. Combine that with my frequent travel buddy who has a very Italian first and last name, and usually at least two of the four names are spelled incorrectly.

I use the NATO phonetic code alphabet but obviously MS is not trained to use the same. This is spitting on a fire - penalizing the many to try and deal with a few. :headbange


Dharling Bavaria:

Is the thread a waste of resources, or the proposed change at MS the waste of resources?

-Tango Oscar November Yankee

P.S. We rednecked frogs don't waste none of our time spitting on a fire, if yew know what I means! :crazy:

[I'mNoPrince]

1st> I think this change is for the worse for the majority of DVcers ( Renters and non-renters a like) . Now that DD is older She will be taking a friend but how am I suppose to know when they are teens and have no idea at that point and time.

2nd> Web-sights like this and others increase the sales for many. How many renters become owners from sights like this, many. How many purchase resale after finding out they can do so on a sight like this. How many hear of things like this and decide to hold off is the real question.

3rd> Yes they need to do something about Commercial renters that scoop up prime weeks just to sell them but until they can pinpoint a way to that they will keep putting out feelers like this to see what sticks.

4th> I do understand why they need a list of who will be in the room. For the KTTK cards ( need them for EMH mainly) and if using DME. But I have also had everyone listed only to get there and list them all again at the resort.


We are very Happy with our DVC right now and have never had to waitlist or be turned away for when we go but this is one stumbling block that could put a hugh hamper or our future plans. I guess because they are childer (Teens) I could just put any name and thats whta thye would go by tat week.


P.S. Admin please don't shut it down as I just found it and it seems just like another place I can come and share great info about our DVC but in the end if this does take effect It might not matter as We may be forced to sell our as well.

[bavaria]

Dharling Bavaria:

Is the thread a waste of resources, or the proposed change at MS the waste of resources? No, your thread is not a waste of resources, my charming frog. My apologies for the syntax error, but as you know I am an ESL poster :innocent: . I am simply appalled at the waste of resources ie time ie money which would be required to 'fix' errors that the CMs themselves are making. Don't waste my fees on something so absurd!

My question is why they have trouble spelling our names when we're in the system as MEMBERS for heaven's sake!

Good question! I don't understand that either - if my name comes up after the four minutes of grilling (providing address, phone number, etc) why can they just not retype my name? Dirk, you know my names - they are totally mundane German ones, but I will admit that they are not easy for the North American ear to understand and/or spell (especially when I pronounce it 'correctly') I can't tell you how many times CMs chastise me for the fact that I have misspelled my name, and then they 'correct' it to the spelling they assume is correct. :dunce: :mad:

Now this post does require two head banging smileys - :headbange :headbrick

[PolyColleen]

Will we be able to book a 2-bedroom, then, and say "I know I am coming, but I don't know who else is coming along yet?" Will they book "nameless" guests, to be announced at check-in?

My dh and I have different last names. Our two kids have his last name. With my MS contacts there is always confusion of the two names and strange combinations of both. Complicating matters is that my parents are also often on the reservation and they have the same last name I do. Again, if we are all in the computer already, WHY the big confusion? Further, it is me who checks us in and privides ID. The front desk never sees any of the rest of the party. How will they verify -- if you DO switch names -- who really is WITH you?

There will be no SANE way to police any of this nonsense!

At the bottom of all this is that booking anything is getting to be a REAL HASSLE and that's a shame.

[IspeakWhale]

It will be interesting, because until AKV's POS, Renting was specifically allowed and provided for. (In fact Owners were to report 'rental' reservations when making them, and written contracts were a rental requirement!)


I am considering AKV with the possibility of renting my points every other year to cover MF--not for profit. Is renting points at AKV against the rules or is it just conveniently left out of the contract?

Would I be considered a commercial renter if I rented my 200 AKV points every other year?

FWIW--CRO had all the names of my family in their system on our most recent trip in December. I only had to spell out the babies names (twins) when I booked. DH, myself and DS were already there (inculding his birthdate).

[zulaya]

I'm very interested in seeing if this does come into play. Specifically...are they going to give us a REAL heads-up about it before implementing? Or just start it and include it in a vacation club magazine that we get 6 weeks later?

FWIW...Sometimes I'm asked for all our names and b-dates. Sometimes I'm not.

[carolina_yankee]

I am considering AKV with the possibility of renting my points every other year to cover MF--not for profit. Is renting points at AKV against the rules or is it just conveniently left out of the contract?

Would I be considered a commercial renter if I rented my 200 AKV points every other year?

FWIW--CRO had all the names of my family in their system on our most recent trip in December. I only had to spell out the babies names (twins) when I booked. DH, myself and DS were already there (inculding his birthdate).

DVC doesn't prohibit renting (they do say that transferring points in exchange for money is against the rules) however they do say that DVC is not to be used for commercial purposes. They seem to have defined commercial renting as more than 20 reservations in a rolling 12 month period in someone else's name.

The name change rumor, if it comes to pass, would conceivably be designed to discourage spec renting. This is booking a reservation in your name, say during a high occupancy period that is hard to get, and then renting it to someone else. You would have to change the names on the reservation. If name changes canceled the reservation, it would pretty much nix spec renting.

The problem is that this rumored change, if it came to pass, would significantly affect anyone's ability to enjoy DVC as names of party members can change at any time as someone drops out or you want to add someone else.

Personally, I don't think a member would get in trouble renting points the way you would like to do it, but Disney has no role to play in that transaction and may, in fact, take steps to make it harder for you to do.

Dirk

[dragonri]

If the CRO bookings don't allow name changes (as the MS-Advisor implied) then to dismiss this as rumor is foolish. But, if the CRO ressies can have name changes, then yes, I'd say the CM was yanking my chain, so to speak.

So does anyone know if this *IS* a CRO policy?

-Tony

P.S.

Handa awesome job! Bravo!



For reservations for family members last year for September at POR I had no problem changing names and even adding a name at the last minute through CRO. Don't know if there have been changes since then.
This was even during the free dining promotion and it seems as if that would definitely have been a problem.

I made a DVC reservation Friday and when asked for the names I told her I wasn't certain if it would be just my husband and I or if 2 friends would be joining us and asked if I should give her the names then. She said I could give her the names or add them on later whichever I wanted to do. No mention of this not being allowed in the future.

[doombuggy]

Disney has actually used a Disney phonetic alphabet with me, but not consistently. They've always gotten my name right, but not always in the lead position. And the scary thing is getting them to put my email in properly. They always hear "M" instead of the "N"s in my name, and my Southern accent isn't thick at all!

My question is why they have trouble spelling our names when we're in the system as MEMBERS for heaven's sake!

I see you decided which head-banging you tend to prefer. :)

Dirk

Many times I end up spelling my last name using "references;" in your example above, i would say "N" as in "Nancy" or something. My name is only 4 letters and pretty simple, but I still have problems....maybe it's my philly accent....:laughing:

[carolina_yankee]

Many times I end up spelling my last name using "references;" in your example above, i would say "N" as in "Nancy" or something. My name is only 4 letters and pretty simple, but I still have problems....maybe it's my philly accent....:laughing:
I've done that, too. But for me, it just feel wrong to say "N as in Nancy." :D

That's when I decided to learn the NATO phonetic alphabet. (I guess I could also say N as an Nemo . . .)

Dirk

[nono]

Totally OT:

I had a friend Dan who had a customer rep from h#ll once (not Disney)...I only got to hear his end of the conversation...when he got to spelling his name, he said, "D as in dumb*ss, A as in, well, *ss, and I forget what he said for n...I'd never heard Dan say anything slightly foul before, and could not stop :hahahaha: Never did find out if his order was spelled correctly when it came in.

[Daitcher]

Totally OT:

I had a friend Dan who had a customer rep from h#ll once (not Disney)...I only got to hear his end of the conversation...when he got to spelling his name, he said, "D as in dumb*ss, A as in, well, *ss, and I forget what he said for n...I'd never heard Dan say anything slightly foul before, and could not stop :hahahaha: Never did find out if his order was spelled correctly when it came in.


Thanks a lot Nono, I just spit my cofee all over my keyboard.:D


DAVE

[I'mNoPrince]

I've done that, too. But for me, it just feel wrong to say "N as in Nancy." :D

That's when I decided to learn the NATO phonetic alphabet. (I guess I could also say N as an Nemo . . .)

Dirk

Dirk thats what I'm going to start doing for all of them I will Use Disney Character names that will drive them crazy if not a Disney fan.

[Mikesmom]

We do not rent out points on any regular basis, but this would DEFINITELY cause issues for us. Every year DH and I book a ressie for October Food & Wine . Some years we book a 2nd room because we know someone in the family (and we are not always sure who) is coming along. One year our guests (NEVER to be invited again) cancelled on Day 29 - I rented out the ressie. Under the new rule apparently we would just lose our points.

Additionally, DH has had several surgeries in the last 5 years. These were not issues that were apparent at 11 months out. Three years in a row, we had to cancel our trip. Yes, it was more than 30 days out, but the illness was such that we knew we would not be able to use the points before the end of UY. (With a Feb UY, a cancellation in October pretty much becomes useless if points go into holding - Nov, Dec, Jan are all a tough ressie if you don't book early). I was extremely grateful I could rent the points. Medical expenses are bad enough without having to take a bath on the dues.

My son's last name is different from mine. If we plan a family trip and I can't go, does that mean, DS, his wife and little boy are cancelled out? I would NOT be a happy camper.

Now I don't expect to have any of these issues in the future, but who knows what to expect? The flexibility of our DVC points is part of the attraction. I should have the right to give away the ressie, rent the ressie, do whatever I please. If they have a problem with "Commercial"renters, then they should deal with it, and not make the rest of us deal with these issues.

[gblast123]

Just came back from my visit to WDW. Stayed at BWV and AKV.

One thing shocked me. They are now paying $100 for any non-DVC member, who is staying at the hotel, if they take a tour whether or not they buy DVC!! Of course DVC members are not eligible, even if they buy after the tour!! Again, DVC members get shafted!!

I went to the Wednesday "homecoming" aka brainwashing session. Most of it was fluff with a "game" showing the advantages of DVC.

After the "game" there was a Q and A session with one of the DVC salespeople. This gave me a chance to grill the spokesperson.

He informed me that he (and other people at WDW) monitor the boards and that he did not know about this "no reservation change". As far as he knew, that was not planned or was it in the works.

With regard to the $15 OKW extension, when I asked about the comparative cost vs buying additional points, he told me that, financially, it was much better to buy additional points. In fact, he had sold his OKW points and bought either SSR or AKV (I forget which one he said). I am working on a comparative analysis but I am backed up right now. I hope to get to it next week.

Regarding "spec" booking, it does not seem to be a real issue.

I did have one thought. Does WDW have the right to use its points to book vacation times? I haven't been able to find any section in the POS that prevents it. In fact, I have often wondered what they do with banked points when they exercise their ROFR. Could it be possible that WDW is "spec" booking? (say it an't so Joe!!) After all, think of what it rents those points out per day during holiday periods!!!

Any rumor that "commercial renters" are competing with WDW is sheer nonsense. In their most recent SEC 10-K filing they indicate that occupancy is up in 2007 from 2006.

Occupancy '07 - 89% '06 - 87% (2% increase overall including east and west coast markets)

The entire 10-K can be found here. You have to scroll down to the section marked "Domestic parks and resorts"

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/071121/dis10-k.html

BTW - Disney shares are trading at a 52 week low!!



happy reading.

David

[carolina_yankee]

David, how dare you confuse a fun debate with facts and reasonable comments!

Seriously, thanks for the info - comforting to hear about the name-change denial. Here's hoping your source is 'in the loop!'

Dirk

[Carol]

....He informed me that he (and other people at WDW) monitor the boards and that he did not know about this "no reservation change". As far as he knew, that was not planned or was it in the works.Interesting, but not surprising. Not sure that any planned changes in reservation policies would necessarily be shared with sales ahead of time. My personal opinion (and that is all it is) is that there are some additional restrictions coming, but that they will be applied only to those that Disney deems to be commercial renters. I don't think the rest of us will feel any adverse effect. Hope I am not being a Pollyanna about it. :D


....I did have one thought. Does WDW have the right to use its points to book vacation times? I haven't been able to find any section in the POS that prevents it. In fact, I have often wondered what they do with banked points when they exercise their ROFR. Could it be possible that WDW is "spec" booking?I don't think Disney is "spec booking". It is very rare for CTO/WDWTC to have DVC rooms to sell (at the sold out resorts, anyway) much longer than 6 months prior. And most of that comes from member trade outs. The retained ownership percentage is supposed to be used for administrative and maintenance reasons. I don't think a good hotel manager can predict months in advance that rooms will be out for maintenance, so I don't think those rooms get released until much closer to the date.

I think Disney just adds banked points from ROFR to their "developer inventory" - not the retained inventory for maintenance, but the inventory they plan to sell again. Somehow, Disney keeps track of resort and use year and expiration dates of all those points they buy back until they sell them again. In fact, I think one of the reasons that reservations made with developer points (the ones members got as incentives) is a manual process, is so Disney can effectively and correctly use the points in the developer inventory. .

I think Disney could legally use their points to reserve prime space at 11 months, but I really don't think they do.

[bavaria]

That's when I decided to learn the NATO phonetic alphabet. (I guess I could also say N as an Nemo . . .)

Dirk

The problem is that the MS CMs mostly don't seem to understand an internationally understood alphabet system. So your name may be spelled as 'Deltaindiaromeokilo' on your reservation! :headscrat

Oh, and at check in this last week? MY name was on the reservation, and the desk CM asked sweetly - 'I see that your room is for two - may I have the 2nd name please?' Only MY name came over on the reservation even though I had given two to MS :sosad:

[carolina_yankee]

The problem is that the MS CMs mostly don't seem to understand an internationally understood alphabet system. So your name may be spelled as 'Deltaindiaromeokilo' on your reservation! :headscrat
Yeah, and that they'll spell right. :(

Oh, and at check in this last week? MY name was on the reservation, and the desk CM asked sweetly - 'I see that your room is for two - may I have the 2nd name please?' Only MY name came over on the reservation even though I had given two to MS :sosad:

Hey, at least they didn't cancel you for not having another person with you, and you could correct the spelling of your friend in person! (I heard a story about Polyanna on NPR yesterday - it's always worth looking for something positive.)

Dirk

[kimberh]

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/071121/dis10-k.html[/url]

BTW - Disney shares are trading at a 52 week low!!



happy reading.

David

I have always thought that Disney had someone reading the boards. All the complaints on too much food on the DDP... then the plan changes with appetizer taken off. This was on the Dis.

I sure hope this name change rumor is just that... A rumor! Thanks for the update.

[spiceycat]

so we are hopeing this is a false rumor - or wishing that is a false rumor.

if it is true definitely need to sell some OKW points.

[dvcdad]

I just booked my daughter on a three-night vacation for this upcoming December. If she couldn't go for some reason, I'd like to see if my other daughter would want to go and then substitute her name. I think that we should be allowed to do this since it's just substituting one family member for another.

It should be fairly easy for DVC to determine who the commercial renters are and go after them. Too many unnecessary rules ruins the flexibility of the system.

[dsruton]

On as much as this is a rumor, I am still confused about this renting points. I am almost sure that we were told that selling points was against the contract we signed. I know, many do things they are not supposed to but, I still don't understand.

[Daitcher]

On as much as this is a rumor, I am still confused about this renting points. I am almost sure that we were told that selling points was against the contract we signed. I know, many do things they are not supposed to but, I still don't understand.


Renting points is NOT aganst the contract you signed. The POS clearly states that renting is allowed.

Where DVC draws the line is "commercial activity". They have defined commercial as 20 rentals in a 12 month period. As long as you are renting less than 20 then you should be fine.


DAVE

[PolyColleen]

Mickey's one hand does not know what the other is doing (which unfortunately sounds somehow pornographic and was not meant to) so how could they EVER really hope to enforce this?

I am an annual passholder and my anniversary date is mid-March. Offers to renew have come THREE times. The names have been slightly different each time. One of the requests was sent to my Mom's address in Florida and included my name at her address. The last one came two days ago, long after I renewed via telephone. Mass confusion! How could Member Services POSSIBLY keep track of all the family members?

DVC is starting to get awfully close to a line I don't think they should cross... The one where we all start to tell potential-buyer friends that "DVC is nice BUT the bad outweighs the good." They need to remember the old saying that "You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater." Torturing upstanding members to foil the nefarious plots of a very small minority is crazy. It also reeks of a self-serving plan along the lines of "Well if people can't substitute then WE get the points back." Dues are WAY too high to allow points to be forfeited!

[macosx]

:headscrat Hate to add fuel to the fire, but I had a conversation with MS late last year with exactly the same sentiment. I was making a reservation for several rooms for our large party, and didn't have specific commitments. I just wanted 3 rooms under my name, but no go. I had to specify different people for each room. Also, they wanted addresses for everyone, and there are people I've know for years (including relatives), but couldn't give you their mailing address off the top of my head. And besides the confirmation, what do they need the address for anyway? I just used my address and handed them the confirmation. Fortunately, they were satisfied with just one name for each reservation, and I didn't have to waste time giving them more names only to change things later.
:sosad:
If there is any truth to this, it is going to be an idiotic waste of time and money, especially ours! Besides the stupid waste of time putting names prematurely, making changes, etc., there is the new computer system that's wasteful, and will be the source of huge number of complaints, further taking time and energy on MS. We'll have longer hold times and they'll have to hire more MS agents to take care of business, and guess what? Maintanance costs go up. If this is in the works, they'd better stop wasting our money, and if it actually is as idiotic as it sounds, someone is going to be fired! Heads will roll!!!
:crymeariv

:faint:

:violinist

[Muushka]

Also, they wanted addresses for everyone

That is strange. I just booked for 2 other people in our 2 BR and all they asked for was their names. I don't think I have ever been asked for an address of a guest.

[sajetto]

That is strange. I just booked for 2 other people in our 2 BR and all they asked for was their names. I don't think I have ever been asked for an address of a guest.

Boy I sure have. I've booked reservations for people other than myself 3 times this year and EVERY time they required their address before they would book.

[NYDVC]

I usually give them the names, but they want me to add the address later.

[ilphil]

Interesting about the adresses...last month I called to drop one name and added 3 others to our June ressie and all MS asked was who was being dropped and the names of the persons being added.
No addresses were asked for and no mention of having to cancel and redo the ressie.
I'm thinking this is just another rumor without much basis in reality.

[carolina_yankee]

:welcome: ilphil!

Just a word about the rumor - it does come from one of our older members who has been the source of much reliable information in the past. (He owns tons of points and tends to get good info form his guide and MS contacts.) Whether this is one of those good tidbits remains to be seen. I tend to agree with you - I think this would be so prone to to problem and guest dismay that I can't see how or why DVC would implement it - then again, I never thought I'd see styrofoam cups in the studios . . . :(

Dirk

[greenban]

:welcome: ilphil!

Just a word about the rumor - it does come from one of our older members who has been the source of much reliable information in the past. (He owns tons of points and tends to get good info form his guide and MS contacts.) Whether this is one of those good tidbits remains to be seen. I tend to agree with you - I think this would be so prone to to problem and guest dismay that I can't see how or why DVC would implement it - then again, I never thought I'd see styrofoam cups in the studios . . . :(

Dirk

Hey! Just because today is my birthday, you don't have to call me old!

;)

-Tony

[magicalmcwho]

Well :happybirt Tony!!.

Jim.

[carolina_yankee]

Hey! Just because today is my birthday, you don't have to call me old!

;)

-Tony

:birthdayc:birthdayc:birthdayc , Tony! May your day be filled with all the flies of your choice . . . :)

Dirk

[Michelle1503]

Has any more truth been found to this? I have called in the last week and added, deleted and changed and no mention was made... just wondering!:sherlock:

[greenban]

Has any more truth been found to this? I have called in the last week and added, deleted and changed and no mention was made... just wondering!:sherlock:


Other than the initial post, I haven't seen any data anywhere to support the claim.

Plus the OP is rather full of himself anyway...... ;)

-Tony

[Colorado Belle]

I just plugged 'changing names on a reservation' into the search engine and up came this post. I hadn't rented points in over a year, and I remember froggie saying something about it being disallowed...it's cool that the search engine worked!!!! and even cooler that when I called MS to ask about changing a name on the ressie that I was told: no problem and no, we have no rule like that. I'm guessing that if they do implement such a rule to prevent naughty people from 'holding' Xmas weeks and such, that it would be mostly for those very sought after weeks.

anyhow, just thought I'd add a belated Happy Birthday to the green amphibian and chime in with the