Marathoners....Questions??

[AmyBeth68]

I'm really investigating this possibility of running the 1/2 marathon next year. I need to buy a few books to read up since I'm a total non-runner. Probably could make 3 miles on a good day right now, at about a 15 min/mile pace. I know that I couldn't keep that up though much past that :(.

But I really would LOVE to do this with someone...my DH said he would consider it except that his knees hurt after and during a short run so he doesn't think he's cut out for long distance. I guess I'd be on my own...not sure how this would affect my ability to actually accomplish this goal. It would be nice to have a running partner?! But I don't know too many people who train for marathons LOL!

So did any of you have any knee problems prior? Also, are any of you runners training on your own or do you all have partners? Finally, are there year long training programs or do you really start training at the 4 month prior time period?

THANKS!

[PoohsPal]

Mel trained on her own. Hopefully she can help you more there. Could you do a walk/jog combo and then include your dh?

Dh and I took teh training schedules in MArathoning for mortals and put them together.

About 8 weeks each of:

walk/run the half
run/walk the half
run the half

That took us to the 20 week full marthon training program. Check out teh programs and see how close you are to being able to do the first week. Then just make a program that ramps frm there. Dh wan I are going to run 2 x's a week for 30 to 40 minutes, try to cross train twice a week, and do a weekly log run of 5 or 6, 7 tops, miles. We figure we should still be alot stronger by teh 20-week mark.

[AmyBeth68]

Thanks Carrie...that sounds like a plan! I'm definitely going to get the book you recommended along with "Marathons for non-runners". I figure I need all the help I can get.

In addition I'm going to run a 5K this spring, which I had already decided to do, I'm hoping that will give me a bit of confidence.

Now all I need are more DVC points so I can stay in a villa while I'm down there for the marathon weekend LOL!!!! :p

[AmyBeth68]

Sorry to be asking soooo many questions. But I've got another one for you runners :). Would kickboxing classes, say twice per week, be a good compliment to running? They are hard classes but would be considered a "sprint" type workout since we go hard for about an hour. They also do a lot of core muscle training and arm/leg strengthening. It's a pretty intense workout?! Not sure if it would be too much in addition to running 3 x per week. That would give me 3 days running, 2 days kickboxing and 2 days rest.

Thanks, this is so great to have people to bounce ideas off of!

[JimMIA]

I would look at a Runners' World magazine and/or their website. There is also probably a running club in your area which offers some running clinics and/or marathon training programs.

I ran the marathon long ago, and used the brutal training regimes of the period, which were designed with a goal of running a sub-4 hour marathon. So I was running 70 miles a week for about 3 months of my 6+ month program. In those days, marathon finishes closed at 6 hours (about a 13:45 per mile pace), and if you came in after that, you were alone, guessing at your time, and without any certificate, medallion, etc. to show for your effort.

As running declined in popularity, race organizers had to loosen their attitudes a bit to accommodate casual joggers, etc. Some "runners" decry those changes, but I think they've been good.

Although I trained in the dark ages of running, I'd bet that the basic fundamentals of distance-running training have not changed that much. Basics include:

Start slowly. This applies both to your pace at the beginning of a run (and especially, a race) and with the overall workload of training. Start slow and short, and build from there. The old distance runner's maxim is a good one: "if you can't talk in complete sentences, you are going too fast."
Listen to your body. Your body is an amazing thing (Mine's not as amazing as it used to be...but). If your body tells you to slow down, slow down. If it tells you to quit, quit. As you run more, you will be able to tell the difference between, I don't like this, I'm tired, Slow down, and QUIT! With each day, and each plateau of strength, quit happens much less frequently.
REST! Athletic training has two components -- tearing down and building up. Building strength happens ONLY during rest. So it's important to take rest days. As you get stronger, that may not mean a day off; it may just mean a day with less strenuous activity. During the peak of my craziness, my rest days were very boring, gentle seven-mile runs.
Mix walking and running. In my day, this was considered "sissy," but today physiologists say it's a good idea. The important thing is to build -- both physically and mentally -- and if walking half of your distance makes you stronger either way, do it.
Build slowly, and take steps backward. In my schedule, I never added more than 5 miles per week, and I reduced my mileage by half every fourth week. So, for example, in the early stages of buildup, I'd run 25 miles one week, 30 the next, 35 the next...and then 15 the next. The buildup stretched my endurance, and the light week gave me both physical and mental rest periods.
Keep a DETAILED log of your training. It will be helpful information, a source of pride for years afterward, and an inspiration on those days when you just don't feel like doing it.
Learn the difference between fatigue, discomfort, and pain. Pain says stop, and you should heed that. But not everything that hurts is pain. In fact, the vast majority of things that hurt are not real pain. Listen to your body and learn from it.
Don't neglect the upper body, particularly the shoulders and back. The stronger they are, the less they'll hurt at 23 miles. Marathoning requires mental toughness and it's hard to be tough when your whole body hurts.
Forget speed and time. Don't ever wear a watch, and don't ever think about your per-mile pace until you are approaching the marathon date. Speed (or worrying about time) is your enemy. Speed comes from running distance, not from running fast. Running fast only causes injuries.
Run a few races. Run a couple of 5K's, 10 K's and/or a half if you can find one. If you can find a 30K, and you're ready to run it, you are golden! Nothing prepares you for the confusion and electricity of a marathon like running a race. It will give you experience with holding back, staying out of the way, anticipating hazards, etc, etc, like nothing else will. When you get to the starting line of the marathon...you will have been there before, and that's priceless experience.
Taper. At the end of your training cycle, taper off. I mean seriously taper off. In my schedule, I dropped from 70 miles a week, to 35, to 25, to only about 12 the week before the marathon. By race day, my body was about to explode from all the pent-up strength and energy.
Get a good night's sleep the night before. Or, if you don't think you can, get a good night's sleep the night before the night before.
Go slow out of the blocks! Go slow -- S-L-O-W! I ran the last 16+ miles of my marathon a full minute per mile faster than the first ten...on purpose. And I spent most of that passing buddies who had gone too fast in the early going. The biggest mistake marathoners make is going out too fast. You may think you're slow, and you may be...but what I'm talking about here is slow for YOU. You really have to take it easy.
Have fun. Distance races are a blast. By the time you get there, you're ready. Relax, go slow, and enjoy the experience!

Best marathon training book? Dr. George Sheehan's Running and Being. Is it about marathon running? Nope. Oddly enough, it's about running and being. Master that, and marathons are just details. As Yogi Berra would say, "Marathons are 90% mental; the other half is physical."

[JimMIA]

Sorry to be asking soooo many questions. But I've got another one for you runners :). Would kickboxing classes, say twice per week, be a good compliment to running? They are hard classes but would be considered a "sprint" type workout since we go hard for about an hour. They also do a lot of core muscle training and arm/leg strengthening. It's a pretty intense workout?! Not sure if it would be too much in addition to running 3 x per week. That would give me 3 days running, 2 days kickboxing and 2 days rest.

Thanks, this is so great to have people to bounce ideas off of!I think most people now say you need a combination of exercise, for a couple of reasons. One, as I mentioned above, your body is going to get tired all over, so the stronger you are all over, the better off you will be.

Also, you need some mental break from running, so another form of exercise would be a sound decision.

It's also important to have balanced muscles. Running primarily strengthens the muscles on the back of your body -- lower back, hams, calves, etc. If you get too much of an imbalance in the strength of the opposing muscles -- abs, thigh, shins -- you will be much more injury prone.

Flexibility is also a key to reducing injuries. If I were going to add something to my routine to help with my marathon training, I'd probably add yoga.

So, for those reasons, you need to not neglect the rest of your body in favor of miles in your running log.

OTOH...you don't want bulk. Any extra bulk you have is just more tonnage you have to lug around for 26 miles, 365 yards.

As far as kick-boxing generally, I'm sure it's good overall exercise. It will not help your aerobic capacity much, but if you're running 3 days a week, you're getting enough aerobic training. It should also help flexibility, and as long as it doesn't build bulk, I'd guess it's fine.

The MOST important component of your schedule is satisfaction. You need a schedule that 1) you can DO, and 2) that you will stick with. Sticking with the schedule over weeks and months has everything to do with sticking with the marathon in miles 21-26.2.

[JimMIA]

A couple of other things, and then I'll shut up.:jumpingbe

In addition to my long post above, I have two other suggestions:

Alter your perceptions and expectations of time and improvement. Endurance training is not at all like strength training. I can go to the gym once, and feel improvement in strength.

In endurance training however, the benefit of a single workout is zero. Endurance training is a matter of months and years...not days and weeks. So be realistic. You are not going to see or feel improvement.

But one day, you and DH will be out for a training run and one of you will ask, "How ya doin?" And the other will say, "Fine, why? You okay?" And you'll both realize you have already run farther that you thought possible and both of you feel just fine. That's the way it happens in endurance training...slowly.

Have a long run each week. Do not schedule your training runs in equal increments. For example if you are running nine miles a week in three runs -- run two 2 milers and a five miler, NOT three 3-milers. (work your way up to the longer distance gradually, of course)

The overall mileage per week/month/year/whatever builds your base strength, but it's the long runs which build your endurance, and more importantly, your confidence and mental toughness. For that reason, your long run should be at least double the distance of your "regular" run.

Also, never abandon a long run unless you suffer an injury. It the going gets tough, the tough don't get going...they slow down. Slow down, sure. Walk/run, sure. But don't ever quit on a long run. You're a distance runner now...even if your greatest distance is only three miles.

[AmyBeth68]

Jim...thanks so much for that great information. REALLY good stuff to think about.

I appreciate you and Carrie taking the time with my questions. I tend to ask a LOT of questions :help: .

[PoohsPal]

Jim - 07 team??? You know your stuff

Amy - The plan I used said to cross-train 2x's a week. They consider X-train anythign that is not walking or running. Dh never really stayed consistent with his X-training adn I did Curves. Kick-boxing would probably help you more.